UKC

Dear hive mind,

My partner and I are (very fortunately) heading to a wedding in Los Angeles at the end of September. We're going to stick around for about 10 days afterwards, and have our hearts set on climbing as much (and as cheaply) as possible. So what do you reckon? 

Yosemite Valley is obviously high on the list, but I think all but the lowest grade stuff will be out of our reach. So where else? Any must-do routes? Tuolumne looks like it could be freezing in early October, and Joshua Tree is pretty unknown to me... 

Grade-wise (if it helps), we're an experienced multi-pitch team, but my partner doesn't lead trad, so British HVS / E1 (my onsight ceiling) would be our absolute max I'd say. 

Cheers! 

In reply to Georgert:

In LA you're only two and a half hours from Joshua Tree: great routes at every grade, both multi and single pitch and all in the middle of remarkable scenery. I've been there at a similar time - mid-October - and the temps were fine.

You're also less than four hours from Red Rocks, another superb venue and one where the grades won't do so much grievous damage to your ego.

Out of the two, Joshua Tree would certainly be my preference.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Yes, if you've never climbed in the desert it's definitely worth a visit just for that.  While in the general Palm Springs area, there's also Tahquitz and Suicide Rocks in a nice alpine setting (all grades) and beautiful hiking in the San Bernadino mountains 

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Joshua Tree looks unreal, and plenty of variety, too. 

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Suicide Rocks is definitely more my vibe – the setting looks stunning. There's just something about desert that doesn't thrill me... but I'll happily be corrected! Thanks Dave!

In reply to Georgert:

we got married in San Diego, climbed at Baja California and Mission Valley, the highlight of a road trip was Joshua Tree, we were bouldering and doing single pitch routes mostly. Being in the desert was surreal, we made a motel in Joshua Tree town our base, loads of good cafes bars, climbing shop. Really great destination. The single pitch grades and pro seemed a bit pokey, but new areas tend to.

In reply to Georgert:

+1 for Joshua Tree. Don't miss out Indian Cove outside the park as well.

In reply to Georgert:

I predominantly onsight trad climb,  mainly sub extreme, with the odd harder route when I'm going well. In my experience it's a great time to go but you need to stay as flexible as possible, as weather and forest fires can trash plans.

For an LA visit Tahquitz/Suicide is the closest world class climbing, where there is enough to go at for several weeks. Idylwild is lovely and has a climbing shop and friendly local climbing scene. The next closest major areas are Joshua Tree and Needles area (Needles area has free very basic camping and is amazing, but is not the best place for a first visit). I've visited JT 10+ times for week plus trips and still have plenty of starred stuff to do, trad multipitch to 220m and loads of long two pitch stuff, single pitch, sport and bouldering . Climbing shop and friendly local scene in JT village. Ditto for Red Rocks, about 4 hours drive further north  (and with the friendliest grading and pro)....this area has the best guidebook  (and the editor, redjerry, posts here). Ditto for Yosemite/Tuolumne ...the Valley is peak season mid October as Tuolumne facilities close down. My other multiple return venue is Lake Tahoe. 

In warm Octobers the higher venues are best. If it's cold or fire affected, Red Rocks and JT are bedt. If it's cold with snow/rain then JT or Suicide. 

Another point is for granite (all the above except Red Rocks) it's way easier to tick classics if you can jam at HVS 5a ( about 5.8....on the plus side,  grades are more friendly than on slabs where 5.8 is typically 5b) . For Red Rocks jamming is much less important.

There are loads of other good venues in CA and NV.

For general info check out Mountain Project :

https://www.mountainproject.com/

In reply to Offwidth:

A lot of the Yosemite facilities shut down mid October too. 

In reply to Offwidth:

^^ This.  Jamming ability is essential to not get spanked or trash your hands (learn to tape up). 

To the OP - I found navigating to certain parts of J-tree and Redrocks a ballache when I went in '99 - I don't know if more recent guidebooks have improved this, but if not, then sticking to the honeypot areas might be a good idea.

In reply to Toerag:

I've rarely ever tape for grit or US granite. It's a preference for some but not for me.

Nav is indeed easier with modern guidebooks.

In reply to Alex Riley:

What do you mean by a lot?... most stays open in my experience and according  to Park information.

Camp 4 has sadly gone reservation only to October end. So no more turn up and camp in the valley.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/camp4.htm#:~:text=2022%20Season,come....

Most food venues stay open throughout October

https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/dining.htm

The main shop is open year round.

https://sierranevadageotourism.org/entries/yosemite-village-store/e629ffd7-...

In reply to Georgert:

Yosemite will be fine in mid Oct and if you can climb up to E1 you should be able to get up enough routes to keep you going. Bear in mind tho that it is quite a long way from LA so you’d spend a good proportion of your time driving - and modern California is not the easy going open roads of yore but a traffic snarled land of long distance commuters and poor highways, so it’s pretty tiring. Yosemite will also take a while to get the hang of as it’s very much its own style. 

Joshua Tree is great cragging, not massive like elsewhere in America but really cool climbing and the desert is a very special place. The nearby towns are a mix of hipsters, bikers, tweakers and squaddies alongside a strong Hispanic vibe, it’s very foreign and interesting. 

Red Rocks is cool and some of the bigger routes in the canyons are very accessible. Vegas is not my thing but it’s worth seeing. 

As Offwidth says, go where the weather and conditions dictate. California gets heatwaves, cold snaps, forest fires, it can pay to move around. 

If you can’t jam too well now then learn to do so before you go. Make sure you have doubles in the standard cam sizes and it’s nice to have one or two larger cams in case there’s a bit of wide. 

The Mexican food is great. If you see some shitty looking place but it’s full of people of the same ethnicity as the restaurant’s cuisine, then eat there, it will be good. 

Remember that weed is illegal on federal land which includes national parks. 

In reply to Georgert:

If Yosemite is high on your list gor gor it  you should find plenty to climb at your grade, it is quite possible that you will find that the weather is good enough to drive up to Tuolomne for a days climbing too. Most of the facilities in Tuolumne are likely to be closed nut I would expect everything in the valley to still be open in October.

I've never had any issues getting a refund on pre-booked camping if I cancel or check out early, it seems to be automatic as they know that they will have no problems reselling your pitch.

In reply to seankenny:

 >Joshua Tree is great cragging

Agreed but thats in a UK sense: two pages of routes here for 2 pitches or more with stars below 5.9. Lost Horse Wall is my favourite area... a series of 100m routes from VS to E1

https://www.mountainproject.com/route-finder

On Yosemite Valley,  it seems it's going to be real difficult in October now that  'walk -in' has ended in Camp4  (all other Valley sites were already booking only and were full soon after booking opened). The exception will be Valley big walls, but I think they now need permits. Tim is right about bookings but that might already be too late. Short cancellations on arrival were sometimes possible in the past...no more 'walk ins' will add a lot of competition for those.

In reply to Georgert:

I'd go to The Needles. It's amazing.

In reply to DaveHK:

It is amazing... it's also pretty serious for a climber new to Californian granite and the OP is looking for a grade range with few options that are not bold. Even Dome Rock, the most friendly place in the grade range, in the general area of Needles was knarly in places.

In reply to Offwidth:

The last time I went (2019) I stayed down in El Portal. The campsite there is distant, expensive and not particularly nice, but it adheres to basic standards of hygiene that Camp 4 does not. I climbed with a British ex pat who assured me that accommodation was the crux of any trip to the Valley and that seemed spot on to me; the huge line of vans parked overnight at the park entrance is another manifestation of that. The whole place is terribly managed.

In reply to Offwidth:

Campground reservations only open 5 months in advance so i would anticipate that October dates will open up for booking in May. If I don't get lucky on sale opening day I have usually found that it is also  possible to find openings due to cancellations during the 5 months prior to arrival as long as I don't mind having to switch sites occasionally during my stay.

In reply to DaveHK:

+ 1.

I can't believe no-one has mentioned the Needles until now. It's not full-on crack climbing - there are face holds. Joshua Tree will be hot in September, Yosemite could be unpleasant for a 10-day trip trying to adjust to the style at those grades. Tuolumne would be great as well (maybe a bit cold - is it higher than the Needles?).

In reply to Tom Briggs:

East Side of the Sierras also good and has lots of things at different altitude - we froze our arses off on one of the higher crags in August when many places were baking. It’s also a very nice drive from LA. 

In reply to Offwidth:

When it's cold, JT quite often gets snow (but is fine for climbing during the day). But Suicide is at the top of a fairly sizeable mountain and most assuredly gets cold and snowy.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I did mention Needles. JT is lovely in Oct if you stay in the shade and/or breeze. Tuolumne OK in the sun if it doesn't snow early ( it did  in two years for us)

In reply to seankenny:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/whitney_portal-4725/bony_fingers-9...

Yeah Bony Fingers looks amazing!

In reply to Georgert:

I need to get back to Suicide to do Flower of High Rank (5.9). Not sure why it took me so long to notice it but it's very near the top of my bucket list.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mountainproject.c...

In reply to Georgert:

Thanks all – some incredible stuff to dig into here. I knew the hive mind wouldn't let me down. 

In reply to Georgert:

We were in Yosemite last year (October) from mid October for a week. We clocked the open dates for booking and were online when they went live. wasn't too difficult to book a spot, we stayed in upper pines which was decent and free showers in curry village. Not the cheapest but was nice to know we had somewhere to stay as Camp 4 was first come first served when we went so not guaranteed a space.. have a look here to work out when things are open to bookings: https://www.recreation.gov/camping/gateways/2991 

not all the campsites will be open come October but i think you can cancel and release your camping (if weather was rubbish) for a small admin fee. We didn't find anything we wanted to do in Yosemite was closed at that point. It was too dry for most of the waterfalls so maybe not quite as picturesque as otherwise could be  

also drove up from LA, didn't find it particularly hardwork, just the first bit getting out of LA was a bit tedious but you get used to the multiple lanes under/overtaking. Fairly straightforward drive.

Weather was lovely but sort of too warm for bouldering (what we were mostly doing). Tuolumne had zero snow at that point (20th ish October through 25th October) but guess it's a year on year thing as we drove through the meadows (stunning drive past Tenaya Lake) to Bishop afterwards. 

Have a great trip!

In reply to John Stainforth:

Missed your post John. I've climbed in Indian Cove in the xmas holiday period with a foot of snow. Interesting ice formation (thaw, refreeze, repeat) on dome tops limited choice of routes a bit. The main park was closed.  The driving was nuts....big 4x4s with clueless drivers on snow being the main risk of the day...we were otherwise OK in our small hire car.

As for Suicide when we were snowed out of Lake Tahoe (and Red Rocks was wet) in early October we went to JT and were later told Suicide was normally OK in such conditions. It's high but accessible  (30 mins walk - in) and has a sunny aspect so mostly climbable in mid Oct. MP says still pretty prime then:

https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105788036/suicide-rock

In reply to Georgert:

If you want more of a road trip feel, then:

- Yosemite (dash in/out)

- Tuolumne Meadows and Tioga Road

- including food stop at the Legendary Mobil filling station & look at mono lake

- Bishop for bouldering & Owens Rivers Gorge sport (and hot spring bathing!)

- Death Valley

- Vegas & Red Rocks

- Josh Tree

(or in reverse order).

In reply to ChrisJD:

Top tip. Best breakfast burrito I've ever had and what must be a contender for most scenic garage forecourt in the world.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Can't lie, I'm excited about that. 

Just been looking at some routes in the Valley, too. This looks mega: Munginella (5.6) / https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105867008/munginella 

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Absolutely a top tip! Just two words: fish tacos.

In reply to Georgert:

Can be gritty. This is my 5.6 favourite there :

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105862623/the-grack-center

In reply to Georgert:

Can be gritty. This is my 5.6 favourite there :

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105862623/the-grack-center

In reply to seankenny:

Yep  
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ktPfMCii4R266pcT9

In reply to Georgert:

Check out lovers leap too.Great routes in easier grades and chilled scene.”The line” is one of the best e1s anywhere.
The needles are my fav cragging venue but not a ton of easier stuff

In reply to Georgert:

I’m a big fan of the Eastern Sierra, and have stayed in Mammoth Lakes a few times. Perfect sub-Alpine playground with many options, including the desert too, and other options if you fancy them like great MTB. Easy access to high peaks such as Whitney to the south, Tuolumne an hour away, then you could head over and down to the valley.

In reply to Georgert:

Making a camping reservation in Joshua Tree may be problematic. See Mountain Project Southern California for details. We have camped outside the park because of this reason. I believe you would get better value climbing in Red Rocks and better suited to your experience. 

No one has mentioned Pine Creek Canyon. Excellent climbing and possible in October. Free camping. Combine with Owens River Gorge and camp at the Pit ($5.00). Pine Creek is roughly 18 miles north of Bishop. 

Only 1 campsite was open east of Tioga Pass in late September/October last year. Tuolomne easily accessible and excellent conditions early October. We saw no climbers. Not cold. 

Mobil gas ⛽️ 10 minutes drive from campsite. Excellent food already mentioned. 

I would highly recommend Red Rocks. World class routes (Crimson Chrysalis 5.8+) and many more moderate routes. Climbers use Airbnb. There is camping and reservations required. Very basic. No showers. 14 day limit.

In reply to Georgert:

The Needles …. What a place, what a rock, what an experience! This would probably be my one stop if I were limited to ever visiting one US crag. Over the valley or any other places I have visited (admittedly never done the diamond, been to vedauwoo, the creek, Zion or Red Rocks)!

In reply to Georgert:

Accessing Red Rocks after 08:00am requires a $2.00 fee and a pass is required. Either a National Park or Red Rock pass. Last year $80.00 for National Parks pass and $30.00 for Red Rocks. Access to the Calico Basin is free. Excellent trad, sport and bouldering here.

In reply to Georgert:

There is a reservation system in Red Rocks. Yesterday we didn't make a reservation and we'd forgotten it was Spring Break. We weren't able to access the park. Normally you can enter without a problem because of usage. Driving the 14 mile loop road is a popular activity. Instead, we climbed in Calico. Accessing the park before 08:00 avoids this problem and the $2.00 fee.

In reply to Georgert:

Another consideration when climbing in Red Rocks is climbing on Sandstone following rain. There is a general rule that climbing is to be avoided between 24-48 hours after rain as a minimum. Often it requires longer because of complex variables. Limestone is a wet weather alternative. I did Contagion 5.10a/b 6 pitch route. There are harder climbs at the Blue Diamond cave and Mount Charlston. 

In reply to Georgert:

Regarding camping in Yosemite. Camp 4 is now the historic and the New with its newly built showers. Historic Camp 4 was,  until early last October, a walk-in first come, first serve campsite. Historic Camp 4 is historic in virtue of the efforts (Tom Frost et al) to sue the National Park service who in collaboration with the Curry Company wanted to build employee accommodation on the site. Because of the ad hoc reservation system the composition of historic (old) Camp 4 meant fewer climbers because of fewer accessible sites. Camp 4 is predominantly in October occupied by European Climber's (intent on climbing Freerider) and other recreation users. American climbers appear to stay in vans. Last October the Rangers were turning a blind eye to climbers sleeping in their vans in the parking lot. Beware of over zealous Rangers when inadvertently commiting a traffic violation ( a group of Spanish climbers handcuffed and held at gun point in the parking lot). 

Supposing you decide to climb a wall (we did 5 pitches of South Face Washington Column ) your competence and experience is assessed by interview by a climbing Ranger and Wall etiquette is outlined. You then have access to a campsite the night before and again following the ascent or not. 

Yosemite and America was very different when I climbed the Nose in 2.5 days in 1977. 

In reply to Georgert:

Some great suggestions above. If you fancy something relatively unknown you could try Courtwright Reservoir. It's the one I always regret missing out on. It's not too far from LA and looks pretty amazing in a tuolumne way. It's quite high but probably OK in Oct. Now I'm jealous.

In reply to Crest Jewel:

I like the username🙂