UKC

Thinking out loud.  I think that Cornwall is lacking a modern climbing centre, in an easy to get to location.

The Tide is fairly modern, but it's in the lowest population density in all of Cornwall, has crap transport links and is almost in Devon.

The Barn is similar...it's miles away, in the middle of nowhere and pretty much in Devon

Granite planet is great...when it's not full, but it lacks the modern boldering walls, self belays and nice high walls...the footprint of the building restricts the number and size of walls and bolders that can be made

IMO, somewhere near to the A30 corridor, between Penzance and Redruth would be great. 

The catchment area is mostly sea, which does rather reduce the population density in an already rural area.  The question then is how big is the climber population and how many others users would there be - (kids, indoor-only etc) and would they repay the investment?

Seems to me with modern bouldering walls 'if you build it they will come'. I haven't heard of many closing unless they're very close to competition.

Obviously you don't want to borrow too much to set it up.

Valid points.  Again, just initial thoughts...There's not really any decent fitness/sporting venues in the western part of Cornwall, if it could be combined with other fitness things, such as Yoga, "General Gym" and perhaps treatment rooms for physio and/or alternative therapies, that would increase the potential client base and provide redundant incomes.  Depending on the area, other income streams could be introduced....healthy fast food sort of place, etc.  There are an order of magnitude more schools in that part of the county, opening up further potential.  Then in summer, there are the vast numbers of tourists, which tend to frequent the western part more than the eastern part.  Tide is 50km from Penzance...west of Tide, there is 1 center. East of Tide, the same distance...there are 3

It'll be busy in the Summer if there's bad weather.

Setting up in that part of the world is feast and famine largely. That said, you have  a demo there that's more active and alternative than some!

Good luck.

Other people have had the same thought and made attempts to open one. For the one I knew about, the business case stacked up well enough to get funding agreed but it was ultimately undone by not being able to find a suitable venue available.

Yeh, it does appear that finding an appropriate venue, to coincide with timings of external funding, is going to be the tricky part.

If this ever emerges from thought stage, might be an idea to have a word with those people.

My pessimistic view is it'll be rammed in summer with tourist children which'll drive off the locals and dead in the winter when the locals are surfing and the tourists are gone. 

You talk of population density but I wonder how many people in the area have the disposable income at the moment to pay for a membership continuously? Cambourne, Penzance and Redruth were the top 3 most deprived areas in Cornwall in 2019. 

Unfortunately it makes little business sense to put walls in areas with low populations and in areas where they have to compete with the weather. One sunny summer and they'll be out of business. You could open 20 more walls in London before you got close to diluting the viable demographic to Cornish levels. Plus there's no outdoor climbing/activities to compete. 

Climbing is growing fast but it'll be a long while till someone takes a punt in Cornwall with a million pound investment unfortunately. Unless it's a labour of love.

Also the fact that only 22 people have responded in 20 hours and that they probably aren't all local enough to come speaks volumes (no pun intended)

If it keeps Tide in business, stuck in the middle of nowhere and away from transport links...its probably it could keep somewhere closer to population densities and proper transport links, in business too.

I'm of the opinion that membership costs for things like this are over-rated and a better model is PAYG....typically because the amount of money saved by membership, is not worth paying the membership costs...IMO (I've never paid for a subscription to any gym, or climbing centre)...not to say that subscriptions shouldn't be a thing, but I think basing income off them isn't the best idea. 

Without getting too much into the economics of Cornwall, the "most deprived" label I don't think counts for much...if you look at the map, it's all pretty much the same shade, I don't think there's much difference between those areas and anywhere else.  Those areas have very good transport links, for Cornwall though and anything there, is very easy to get to from pretty much anywhere in the Country

This is my point about the existing walls in Cornwall..it would nice if there was one more easily accessible, to the highest number of people, for the longest amount of time, I thought having one close to main population centres and the main trunk road and railway through Cornwall would mitigate that.

It's great having outdoor climbing, but it's also great to practice and train indoors.  I miss being 10 minutes walk away from all the walls in Bristol, essentially...this is where this thought is coming from.

At the same time...bad news travels fast and people tend to express dislike over something rather quickly.

A large amount of the growth in numbers are young people and they are less likely to have cars. The new Hangar in Sheffield is booming, but I think it's helped by the fact that people can get the tram or walk there from the city centre.

Will it be easy for a large number of eager young people to get there?

You could get in contact with the new wall in Bamford (Peak District) which I haven't been to. It's near to me in Sheffield, but of course I'm not tempted because of my proximity the Sheffield walls. Does the Bamford wall get enough traffic from the surrounding rural punters? Still, it may be a very different case because it is right in the middle of the most popular national park.

It would be great if Cornwall had access to an external funding source like the EU...

The autonomous state of Kernow voted predominantly to leave.

Looking at the map The Tide appears to be 5 mins off the main road within half an hour of St Austell, Newquay, Truro, Wadebridge and Bodmin so seems pretty well placed to me. 

I think the Penzance area could be viable for a medium sized wall. Enough outdoor folk in the general area and all those climbing visitors on rainy days. The deprivation might even help for some business and targetted public health activity development grant income.

Having been involved in lots of wall builds and of course Boulder uk this seems to be the problem at the moment : finding a venue in such a rural area and then getting planning. Instead of making planning easy this Government have made it worse for change of uses. I don't understand this but housing is there main priority not leisure. It just takes too long and is expensive and some Authorities are not up for change of use from industrial too leisure. You really have to make the case for Jobs. So by the time you have permission some one else has stepped in and the building has gone.  A church may be the answer if there is one vacant. That is of course if the numbers stack up.

I expect most large retailers know how many people of a particular income bracket within a certain distance they need to support a new branch, maybe the ABC has similar figures? We must be nearing the point where there are as many climbing walls as there are multiplex cinemas, spas or bowling alleys? If there are these in the locality then maybe a wall would be viable. 

the hope valley wall was only 15 mins away, but we still drove into Sheffield because the size of walls, variety and setting makes the drive worthwhile.

I'll take my consultant fee later.

You need to broaden it beyond climbing, it's too niche in too small a catchment. A cafe that's accessible without going through the wall, but with a view of the wall, high ropes course, group or kids challenges, accommodation etc... combined with some good weather options, bike or canoe hire, pony trekking on the moors, or some free stuff outside nature trail, obstacle course, orienteering and so on... so you get the cafe trade even on a hot day.

Very off the beaten track but Llangorse wall I always thought did a good job of diversification. https://www.activityuk.com/

I agree.  Making it more of an outdoor activity base, is a great idea. Like I mention above, treatment rooms for physios and alternative therapists could be a good one too.

For me, convinience is more important...finding the time to do something like that is the problem.

My dream location would be a church, or a even better...an old pump house.  I kind of picture the original building, built into a modern centre, with some indoor and some outdoor climbs

Turns out...Penzance are actually building a boldering wall and skate park...opposite the existing skatepark!

The only "main road" in Cornwall is the A30, really.  I wouldn't call the A39, a main road...who would choose to drive from Cornwall to Bridgewater on that, and not A30/M5.  I mean, I know it's an A road...but it is in the middle of nowhere.  No direct train nearby, no direct bus nearby...not eveyone has a car, or would be willing to drive silly places and maybe take time off work, just for an inside wall.  It's over an hour from me...that is silly distance, to essentially go to a gym.  So yeh...maybe for people living closer is ideally placed...but not for the majority of people in Cornwall...who live West of St Austell

I'd "settle" for something like this though! youtube.com/watch?v=xsEIasxC6hI&

Two important errors here:

Describing The Tide as almost in Devon shows a distinct lack of awareness as to where Cornwall finishes. 

Similarly, The Barn IS actually in Devon by 2 or 3 miles. 

Maps can be deceiving!

The Tide is 15 - 20 minutes drive down fairly narrow country lanes from the A39 (itself not a particularly fast A road.)

Yeh...I like the idea of outdoor, public walls...kind like that one in the Netherlands you posted.  Have seen a fair few and they look dope.  Some even have the ability to stick some pro in, as well as yer standard holds

aka cliffs, of which we have a plentiful supply in Cornwall!

No.  AKA a wall in a park.