UKC

I’m in a shoes crisis and I need to hear your thoughts. Here’s my situation. FYI I’m Female, really into heel hooks, aggressive sport climbing and boards, narrow heels, not open to evolve, mostly italien experiences, pretty closed minded to new or emerging brands. 

I used to be obsessed with the original Heinz Miura lace womens. When it turned green post-Heinz, it didn’t feel right anymore. Too wide? Maybe it was just me growing out of them. I don’t know. In its place, one of great prominence in my quiver, I started to use the Kataki women’s. I do not hate it but it’s honesty a bit stiff, and the heel rides very low and doesn’t feel as strong and cushy as the original miura. What is more like the old miura lace? I’m considering the Chimera from scarpa? Is that a thing? 
 

I also always used to use the Heinz miura Velcro, but since it turned blue a few years ago it seems wider in the toe. I tried a bit with the boostic for this need, and the otaki, but found both exceedingly painful for my long toes. Resizing lost me the good feeling in the heel. 

for both needs i am almost happy with the scarpa instinct in dark blue, which is some weird version apparently, but it still feels like too much on top, without the softness to use it. 
 

Did you ever love the Miura lace? What do you love now? Does it feel as good?
 

What’s a more soft or sensitive version of the instinct? Does the lace version make sense? I just fee like I have legos on my feet sometimes with them. 
 

i know this is crazy, but if anyone else has been through this I reckon it is someone around here. 
 

thank you in advance for your opinions on this most urgent matter. 

In reply to AtLargesse:

I think the Instinct Lace is worth a shot, if you like the blues. I think it's a work of art, tbh. The sole is thin (3.5mm?) and they are somehow both flexible and a great edging shoe. However, I find the toe box a touch painful...

Personally, I also love the Boreal Lynx - classic. It's probably a bit old fashioned and I dunno if they do a LV version, but it's a great mix of aggressive, good heel, supportive under the toes without being clogs... might be worth trying on! But, it sounds like you're starting to crave more sensitive shoes, which I don't really do as I'm 80kg and tall, but Tenaya is highly thought of... Oasi? Ra?

In reply to AtLargesse:

Not sure I can provide any useful information, but thoroughly appreciating the deep geekery and your commitment to good footwork. 

In reply to C Witter:

I will give the instinct lace a try. Thank you very much!

In reply to AtLargesse:

The Chimera is softer and more sensitive than the Instinct VSR. It edges surprisingly well when new but is definitely not an edging shoe. The Drago is very soft and is great on smears and slopey feet but can't edge. Both use a narrower last than the Instinct. Both have the same heel as the Instinct, but the different fit and the different tensioning in each shoe means they don't feel like the same heel. The extra tensioning in the Chimera makes the heel feel a lot stiffer and a bit less sensitive (it's still a lot more sensitive than something like a Solution). The Drago heel feels softer than the Instinct. It doesn't fit me as well but that is because of my wider feet.

Overall, the Instinct VS/VSR heel is my favourite heel on any shoe ever. The Chimera and Drago heels are good, but not quite as good to me. Overall, both are very good shoes, I always have an Instinct and a Drago or a Chimera with me. For limit heel hooks, I reach for the Instinct nearly every time.

To me, the Instinct Lace is nowhere near as good a shoe as the Instinct VS/VSR. For edging, it performs very similarly to the VS. For heel hooking, it is similar. Sensitivity through the toe is marginally worse, I think due to the rigidity of the toe box. Comfort is worse due to the rigidity of the toe box. For toe hooking, it is hard to put into words how truly awful the Instinct Lace is.

It blows my mind that the same man can have designed the toe hooking perfection of the Instinct VS and then gone on to design the abomination that is the toe box that he put on the Stix and the Instinct lace. The rigid toe box has worse friction for toe hooks than any shoe I have tried (including old school/beginner shoes that didn't even bother with a rubber toe box) and the toe box shape concentrates all of the force directly onto the point of a single knuckle, making it very painful on the rare occasion that you manage to stick a toe hook without slipping. Toe hooks are one of my biggest strengths in climbing. When wearing the Instinct Lace, I would regularly fail to do V2 toe hooking moves so I gave up wearing them on any route where toe hooking was a possibility.

I can't help with any other brands, Scarpa are the only brand that fit my feet well.

In reply to AtLargesse:

The best, most accurate heel I've found is on the Five Ten Aleon, it is absolutely perfect, just suctions on to your heel with a nice textured rubber. Sensitive enough to feel where you're putting it, but rigid enough to crank hard on.

Shame the rest of the shoe is absolute cack. 

In reply to midgen: Yes this is such a thing. I have, since the beginning of my shoe life, had a secret pair of five tens in my bag with that mushy, fabric heel and for some things they fee honesty like cheating. It used to be a V10 and now it’s a hiangle pro. But I know what you mean. It’s got one job. 

In reply to SDM:

« For toe hooking, it is hard to put into words how truly awful the Instinct Lace is. »

you did an excellent job of expressing it. In this day it is pretty weird to make a shoe with toe hooking rubber and that infernal knuckle bump toe box, which he used all over the miura line as well and, I swear to god, the first gen solution (never tried the follow ups). If it’s not a hooking toe, don’t make it look like one. Make a miura Velcro or a boostic. 
 

i will scoop up the chimeras I saw on sale. Thank you. 

In reply to AtLargesse: (and SDM) - if you don't mind slippers , Instinct S.  I personally think the toe box on the VSR is a bit clunky, but the one on the slipper is very different, very comfortable but still with really good performance.  I don't heel hook enough to comment on that, but the heel is similarly narrow, and doesn't feel like it's being pulled off when I have hooked

In reply to SDM:

Interesting! I thought the pain in my toe knuckle was just a sizing issue, but maybe I should try the VS.

In reply to AtLargesse:

I feel your pain.  As a long term Miura lace user, I've been nursing an old but decent pair for a long time.  I've had an even older (and now far too small pair) for the wall.  The new ones are just wrong and gape at the instep. Whatever happened to 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it'?

I think my feet are spreading, and the decent pair has been getting challenging, but the sun came out when someone on UKC sold me a pair of 'new old stock' that was half a size bigger.

Those are now broken in and being looked after.  The older ones are still usable, and I have some pretty poor things for the wall (but that's only plastic).  The very old ones are gathering dust...

I've not found anything that fits and works to the same extent and I do have quite a few pairs of rubbish in the cupboard under the stairs

In reply to AtLargesse:

New Instinct S.

Seriously.

In reply to wbo2:

I haven't tried the black and blue instinct slipper but I had a few pairs of the blue and orange. I really liked them as an all rounder. Surprisingly good at hooking for a slipper when they're newish, although, like all slippers, they do eventually bag out a bit until they're no good for limit hooking.

I'm using a resoled pair as my main board shoe. There aren't many holds that can be heel hooked on my board, but I have a few problems with some techy heels and the slipper is still better on them than my original Furias which are my other board shoe. 

I've been on the lookout for a while for any bargain offers on the new slipper, will be a pair when I see one at the right price. You aren't the first person to highly recommend them. 

In reply to AtLargesse:

By the by, I've just recently got hold of a pair of Tenaya Oasi... first thoughts:

Comfy fit sized down like La Sportivas (e.g. 2.5 EU sizes). Big toe fairly relaxed but narrow toe box means your other toes end up in an aggressive position. Can bit a touch painful to use outside edge on small holds but generally very comfy and did a 1hr 30 indoor bouldering session straight out of the box, taking them off only once.

They are very soft: much more so than, e.g. Otakis, and can be bent in any direction including the forefoot sole plate. They feel sensitive, moderately downturned, precise, pliable, sticky. I used them on tiny edges and footchips and they made those holds feel bigger - especially a partially blocked microedge on a slab. Although the softness is a little unnerving for microedges, it is compensated for my the extra feel you get, which helps you dig into the hold. They also felt great on slopey holds.

I tried a hard, steep problem in them with techy feet, including a steep toehook/smear start, a small slopey hard-to-weight foot, an aggressive heelhook on a crimp rail and some techy smear dinks. The shoe felt bomber: sticky, with lots of feedback; soft but precise heel; a pretty reasonable and not painful toehook.

All together, very impressed by the first outing; enough so that this pair will possibly never be allowed near an indoor wall again, reserved instead for high-friction rock outdoors, bouldering, sport or trad.

If you're still looking for something less aggressive than the Chimera, might be worth a shout

In reply to AtLargesse:

The original Muira lace designed by Heinz is my no.1 smearing slab shoe. I'm not sure the Instinct is a reasonable comparison going by its design (I haven't used them). That said LS fit my feet and Scarpa don't in spite of Heinz being their design head now.

Can you not get them resoled? They'd possibly be even better and you could choose the rubber?

Best of luck, it sounds as though you'll benefit once you find the answer.