UKC

A friend mocked me today for having a bell on my bike as we rode past some pedestrians. 

It is a low profile design with a surprisingly long lasting ring to it. Personally I find it much easier and less awkward to ring a bell in advance than creeping up on people and shouting EXCUSE ME, SORRY, THANKS! 

Your thoughts...

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I removed the bell added at a service some time ago. I believe it’s a legal requirement? Anyway, in case of need, I approach the obstacle, slow down, and say “DING?” in a suitable tone of voice. This invariably works.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I find that a bell doesn't give enough information. People hear it and then panic and don't know where to go. I prefer to call out, in a nice friendly voice, and say hello and tell them which side I will pass them on. They then know where to expect me to go and therefore where to move to, if at all. 

I also think a bell sounds rude and demanding. 

I am a very small woman, so I guess my system has the advantage of me not seeming in any way intimidating, I don't know if people with gruff, male voices are as well received when calling out to people? People generally do appreciate the clear directions from me. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

Last year I bought a new bell, a very traditional one, that sounds like a bike bell, and it has been a revelation. People smile when I ring it, some even comment that it is nice to see and hear a bike with a bell.
IMHO a problem nowadays are the rubbish bells bikes come with I assume by law, that make a tink tink sound, and that many people just do not hear, and if they do, they do not associate the noise with a bicycle in the vicinity.
Since buying my new bell I cannot recall a "get a bell" shouted at me incident.
Ringadingaling.
 

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I use a Knog Oi on all of my bikes, including my XC race bike. It's small, light, has a nice tone and gets me a lot of smiles when racing!

I started using one when cycling with my daughter and it's been a revelation.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I’ve found bells, polite excuse mes don’t work most of the, yobs, people who don’t like cyclists, or who are too important etc etc just glare, don’t move or grudgingly move so slowly you end up stopping to wait for them to reluctantly step off the cycle path or road.

One year, to my utter shame, I fitted new brake blocks and….. and…. they, they, squealed.  Now, while I died inside the remarkable thing was people just moved and there was no emotion, political or personal feeling attached to the noise.  Only I’d better move, quickly.  I wave a cheery morning, or apologise for being a useless mechanic and everyone was happy, briefly.  Obviously I’ve had to fix them and move cities to avoid the ridicule and scorn of my biking friends but for a while it was beautiful🤣🤣

Cheers

Toby

In reply to freeflyer:

I'm some countries like Australia, yes. 

I'm the UK we just need an audible warning of approach. Apparently voice is fine for this. 

I have a bell on my committee bike, but not on my other bikes. Sometimes I think an air horn wouldn't be enough, other times the bell is too much. 

In reply to freeflyer:

AFAIK a bike has to be sold with a bell attached, but there is no legal requirement to have a bell on your bike when riding it. 

Unless this is an urban myth that I've fallen into the trap of believing 

In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

The same as reflectors I thought. Probably some ridiculous EU do-gooding - trying to stop us dying like free stupid people moan moan... The government has probably burnt that law, and will slowly and expensively replace it with a good British law saying the same but just doubling the price of new bikes.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I'd be sorry to see the bell end

In reply to freeflyer:

Another possibility is to say “NEPOMNIACHTCHI?” in a suitable tone of voice.

(Chess-playing cyclist's joke.)

In reply to Schmiken:

I had one of those but the classic doesn’t withstand high use on busy shared foot and cycle paths. The little spring goes out of shape and it ceases to function. The deluxe version looks more robust with its snap gate type spring but they are pretty pricey. I’m um-ing and ar-ing about whether or not to replace with the deluxe or go with a less sleek, cheaper solution.

Either way, I find a bell pretty useful on busy paths…

In reply to freeflyer:

It is in Norway and only bells are allowed, alternatives are illegal. You also "shall" have a white/red reflectors front/rear and white or yellow on the pedals. Lights "shall" be attached to the bike and flashing lights "shall" flash at minimum 2Hz. You also "shall" have two working brakes, one front, one rear.

Needless to say, none of this is enforced.

My order of preference is squeaky front brake followed by polite "hello", then pling the bell. I'm usually quite patient but people strolling along with noise cancelling headphones glued to their ears get passed at close proximity - petty, I know!

In reply to girlymonkey:

Yes. I either give enough space to not need any warning, or slow enough so I can say excuse me,or whatever. Demanding people move with a bell seems rude - imagine the response if a car driver expected cyclists to move  out of the way on hearing a horn!

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I used to have a zound air horn on my commuter bike - much better than a bell.

In reply to freeflyer:

I say 'Ding-Dong' in a Leslie Phillips tone of voice.
This invariably doesn't work.
 

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

Claimed to be the world's loudest bike horn https://hornit.com/products/v3-db140

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Bit over the top for pedestrians though...

In reply to Kalna_kaza: I prefer ding dong . One has to say it correctly of course .

https://youtube.com/shorts/TPRE4s0IxtU?feature=share

In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

I believe you’re right. Similar rules I think may apply to having a rear ( maybe also front ) reflector, and also pedal reflectors and those weird ones attached to the spokes. For all these I think dealers must only sell a bike if it ticks all these boxes, but the purchaser can remove them if they wish. For example, as I never ever cycle in the dark these days I don’t believe I need reflectors.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

As a boat-dweller, I strongly prefer the use of bells on the towpath. They carry far more than voice, and by the time someone's close enough to make understood 'sorry, coming past on your left' it's often too late to efficiently get out of the way. With a bell, I can hear it, step aside in good time, gesture acknowledgement to the preferred side and usually not have to stop or look around or otherwise break step. 

In reply to MG:

I thought that but pedestrians prefer the bell.

In reply to MG:

Cycle paths are a shared space, and a bell is not a demand, but rather a jolly call to let a pedestrian know a bicycle is on its way.

In reply to girlymonkey:

Interesting I get the exact opposite feedback from walkers on MTB trails who comment and say they like the bell because they know exactly what's happening in advance. But maybe that's because it's singletrack so there's no confusion which side I'm passing on, they just step off the trail. But they prefer it to shouting because they know it's a bike.

In reply to Schmiken:

I use this bell on my commuter. I commute on shared-use paths, and I find that dinging the bell gives people a much more clear warning that I'm behind them than squeaky breaks/clicking my gears/saying excuse me. I very rarely get bad feedback about using it. The tone is very nice, not too aggressive, but rings for quite a long time.

My only bugbear with this particular bell is that it's quite similar to one of the common message notification tones used on iPhones, so a subset of people check their phones rather than stepping aside  

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

Mine is more of a ping than a ding. A subtle difference I'll admit, but definitely a difference.

As a towpath cyclist I ping loads of people. I've found that the optimum distance to ping ratio is 2 pings, about 10 seconds before I reach them - close enough to hear, far enough not to startle them and give them time to step left, then right, then separate so one's either side of the path.

In reply to compost:

...leaving you just enough room to get through between them, provided their dog doesn't suddenly decide that it wanted to be with the person on the other side of the path after all (extra points if the dog is on an extending lead that's been left unlocked). I started noticing this during lockdown, I presumed because many people weren't actually that used to walking for exercise, but it still persists. It takes a lot of willpower to make myself say "thank you" when people are so being polite, but incompetently so.

My bell of choice is an 80mm Dutch-style two tone ding-dong bell - like this one .https://www.dutchbikebits.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_i... only black.  It took a bit of head-scratching to get it fitted to the handlebars in my eMTB but it was worth it. Do a gentle ding - pause - dong and it sounds quite friendly. If someone is being unreasonably obstructive or just not paying any attention whatsoever then you can switch to rapid-fire dingdongdingdong mode. It's quite good at penetrating headphones as well.

In reply to dsh:

On the mtb, I also get people thanking me and commenting on how nice it is to hear a bell etc. 

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

You (all of us), can't win. I used to have a bell and no matter how far back, or close I rang it it would make people jump and annoy them, or they would move but be really disgruntled that they had been alerted by a bell (giving dirty looks or saying that you made them jump). The polite, 'excuse me can I get past' is /was marginally better, but often followed up with 'you should have a bell' (so I am startled and very annoyed).

Having a noisy hope style free hub is the best option. Just approach slowly and freewheel and let the free hub gently alert the sheep who will then politely move (often to opposite sides thus almost blocking the track)  

In reply to Martin W:

I keep wondering if I can get something that sounds like the trams in Manchester. That little toot always sounds so friendly and never fails to make me smile.

In reply to girlymonkey:

Interesting. I find that a bell often gets me disapproving looks on the Union Canal cycle path or in the Pentlands but a call of "Bike coming" in a friendly voice generally gets a favourable reaction.  

In reply to tehmarks:

As someone who cycles without a bell, I'd have said that if a pedestrian needs to efficiently get out of my way then I'm doing something wrong - I'd either give them a wide enough berth that they can carry on as they are and letting them know that I'm there is basically just politeness, or slow right down to walking pace and wait for them to work out where they're going at their leisure. But then, I mostly plan to avoid mixed-use pavements and suchlike anyway.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

The Metropolitan Police Cycle Task Force have actually introduced this as standard practice for their mounted members. They´re calling it the London system.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I cycle a lot on an old disused railway, flat enough for even me to get up speed and wide enough to safely pass at a reasonable speed if everyone is considerate.

I use a small bell for advance warning, most pedestrians happily call back dogs/children and it gives them time to do the 'bike dance' so I can pass without worrying about anything stepping out infront of me. For those that don't (let's not forget deafness, as well as headphones) I still have time to slow down to a walking speed, and verbally request that they go single file so I can pass safely.

It goes without saying that I always acknowledge people for giving way.

As a walker I hate it when cyclists don't give me time to react. I want to avoid puddles/nettles before stepping to one side, not leap to avoid getting squashed or jump out of my skin when they silently overtake.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

Lucky to have lived by several great shared use paths (old railways) in North Wales and Chester/Wirral. Have tried bells, squeaky breaks and just talking over the years and have found that whatever you do some people will behave negatively.

Been told to 'get a bell' when I approach slowy and say 'good morning'. Been accused of being demanding when I ring the bell from far off. Ringing the bell when too close sometimes feels like it might lead to a heart attack with some of the more elderly path users. 

Always difficult to judge the appropriate distance these days as everyone wears hidden ear buds when walking their dogs. Best to keep a smile at all times. 

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

Yes for bells!

I also have a very loud free hub which is mostly just embarrassing but seems to help when approaching pedestrians.

In reply to girlymonkey:

I don't think a bell is rude. Its purpose is to alert people to your presence. I'll use mine even if there's enough space to pass pedestrians as they have a habit of weaving around unpredictably.

The trick is to sound the bell well in advance. It gives the pedestrian enough time to work out what's going on and act accordingly. I find last minute warnings are a waste of time.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

The ones that come with bikes are crap.  The best ones are the proper Dutch crown bells that go "rring-rring" and cost only a few quid.

I've long thought cars should have a non-aggressive-sounding noise as well as the horn, signifying "I'm here, just so you know" rather than "move or you're going to die".  Manchester trams do, there's the friendly toot or an almighty scream when someone runs out in front.

In reply to Neil Williams:

That's the only thing horns are supposed to be used for. 

And almost always not what they're actually used for (as I read somewhere once, essentially a non-verbal 'fu ck' variant, typically, 'get out my fc uking way' or 'what the fc uk are you doing?')

In reply to Rampart:

Problem being that the horn sound is very aggressive.

Just use sintered pads, the banshee screaming will have people jumping for cover in the next county 😂

In reply to Jenny C:

I tend to, but if you step back a moment and think about it, why?

In the UK we are always saying please and thank you and sorry, most of the time completely vacuously, we are not thankful or sorry. I have just spent 8 weeks in India and Nepal and another 2 weeks in Italy, and people are courteous, often more so than the UK, but there is non of these please and thank you every other breath.

My point is, on a shared path, the bell is just to let people know someone else is approaching, so if approaching people from behind the bell is courtesy in and of itself so you do not startle them, and if they are wandering in the middle of the path, to allow them to step to one side, no real need for a thank you.
But sometimes I will be approaching a group of 3 or 4 people spread across the path, and they can see you coming, so one would assume they would make space for you, but too often not so. A formal written letter is required, well not quite, but the bell or an excuse me. But why, should they just not actually move, no request or acknowledgement should be needed.

If you cycle along from St Annes to Fleetwood along the prom, which is a shared Sustrans route, you could end up acknowledging a couple of hundred people.

I am off cycling for 6 weeks in Europe shortly and I shall be paying close attention to peoples attitudes to shared spaces there.

My suspicion is that British people are not really very good at sharing, and more interested in their own rights and asserting them, and have much less interest in other peoples rights.

In reply to Godwin:

Saying 'thanks' or a raised hand as you pass is hardly a big deal, but generally makes everyone feel warm and appreciated, so more likely to repeat their considerate behaviour, rather than focus on their legal rights.

Maybe that reaction is because I'm British, but given that I only cycle in the UK surely it's correct that I confirm with the culturally normal manners of acknowledging people who have made an effort to make things easier for me?

That said, I'm not sure where you've been in Italy, but my experience on walks in the northern Dolomites is that it is just as common to say 'hi', 'thankyou' or 'excuse me' (in a language of your choice) there when passing someone on a narrow path as it is here.

In reply to Jenny C:

As I said, I do to. But I do find groups of pedestrians will tend to obstruct the path, and very grudgingly make way at the last moment. [EDIT] I get the genuine sense that cyclists are resented, possibly this a UK thing? Everyone in the UK seems to dislike cyclists, even cyclists when they get in a car hate cyclists. Not all cars with roof racks full of bikes behave as well as one would assume they would around cyclists. Most odd.

Absolutely, conforming to cultural norms, but an observation that IME our cultural norms are not universal.

On a lonely mountain path, it would be a bit weird, not to acknowledge the other person, we walked 35 miles over two days, and saw 2 people. Then we got onto the Via Francigneia and saw a few more and it was friendly "Buonne Pelligrino". I am more speaking of busy shared paths that you may get for example, near towns in The Netherlands or France. Like I will say, it will be interesting to observe.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

My XC bike, which mostly gets used as a commuter has a bell. My road bike doesn’t.

Logic to this is that the former is much more likely to be on shared use space or in the city centre where pedestrians randomly walking in front of you is much more common.

In reply to Godwin:

I'm coming to the conclusion that some people are just bad at sharing space, regardless of what form of transport they are using.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

When the towpath isn't wide enough for a person and handlebars...I'd personally rather just be able to step aside and keep walking off to the side while they pass. It's hard to do that when the first warning you have is when the bike is already on top of you. Personal preference, but the further away I hear the bike the less time we both waste negotiating each other. But I spend a lot of time walking down narrow towpaths, and usually because I have somewhere to be rather than because I fancy some fresh air.

In reply to tehmarks:

Agreed. Also if I think I've got the whole path to myself I'm terrible at meandering along in my own dream world, a friendly advance helps both parties to avoid any collisions (or unintended swims).

In reply to Dave B:

I have a wooden gavel on my committee bike

In reply to Godwin:

I am after a decent bell. Which one have you got?

In reply to Lhod:

Thankfully I have the casting vote on it.