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In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Having looked at the accompanying photo', I'd say that it's a good effort just to be able to get your legs in that position let alone do the climb! He must have double-jointed hips or something?
>
> Good effort Steve
> Good effort Steve
Having looked at the accompanying photo', I'd say that it's a good effort just to be able to get your legs in that position let alone do the climb! He must have double-jointed hips or something?
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Lets hope no one goes on about the height of the side runner.
A truly ground breaking route, given the recent activity has we genuinely seen the birth of the next generation of hard routes.
Can't wait to see smiling butress go
A truly ground breaking route, given the recent activity has we genuinely seen the birth of the next generation of hard routes.
Can't wait to see smiling butress go
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Adam, where does the line go? Up to the gear, across to the arete and then up?
In reply to DazMan: I don't believe it. No way could he climb anything that hard with a cricket jumper slung all nonchalant over his shoulders and humming the final movement of Bruch's violin concerto. It might fool you punters, but no way is a hard and seasoned grit supremo like myself fooled for a second. Nice try whoever took the photo (bet you took the one of Kerry sitting next to Jsane Fonda at an anto-Vietnam War demo?)
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Think Dubya being asked how flexible he is for clearing space in his calendar to attend a gay wedding.
That'll give you an idea.
> (In reply to DazMan)
>
> Your not very flexible then?!
>
> Your not very flexible then?!
Think Dubya being asked how flexible he is for clearing space in his calendar to attend a gay wedding.
That'll give you an idea.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Gordon, Dazman and I are not ones for self-publicizing - we let our achievements speak quietly. But that 'incredible arete at Burbage' went last Sunday (Daz did the first moves and I led through on the a cheval upper section) at about E11, 7c (not too hard - we didn't have to change out of our hush puppies into our rock boots).
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Good effort indeed, but not The line, shurely?
Will it ever go from the bottom?!
I can't find this flexible photo - where's that?
Good effort indeed, but not The line, shurely?
Will it ever go from the bottom?!
I can't find this flexible photo - where's that?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/news/graphics/Elderstatesman.jpg
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/news/graphics/Elderstatesman.jpg
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Aha! I had thought that was an arm. On closer inspection I see it's a foot. Quite bendy, then.
(Now then, all you reachwhingers, try and imagine doing that if you were 6ft)
Aha! I had thought that was an arm. On closer inspection I see it's a foot. Quite bendy, then.
(Now then, all you reachwhingers, try and imagine doing that if you were 6ft)
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: I thought it was his arm too!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
wow this pic is illusional, sort of blur your eyes, his right leg looks like an arm. seriously, he looks like he has a black jumper on with a yellow stripe on the back...
wow this pic is illusional, sort of blur your eyes, his right leg looks like an arm. seriously, he looks like he has a black jumper on with a yellow stripe on the back...
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Iam sure Miss Octavia Cox could do something far more impressive! Flexability wise i might add (Unless she has been in training!)
Iam sure Miss Octavia Cox could do something far more impressive! Flexability wise i might add (Unless she has been in training!)
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Why should being tall make you more infexible?
> Now then, all you reachwhingers, try and imagine doing that if you were 6ft
Why should being tall make you more infexible?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
You’re right, I’m sure she could, although on the whole rhythmic gymnastics flexibility training is about making specific shapes rather than being able to get your foot up in a bent position like that.
(Changing the subject, try this, which Octavia has always been able to do and I find quite impossible. Stand with your heels against a wall. Now bend down and put your head on your knees (assuming you can do this at all, but don’t worry, if you can get within six inches I’ll give it to you). I have never seen anyone else do this.)
You’re right, I’m sure she could, although on the whole rhythmic gymnastics flexibility training is about making specific shapes rather than being able to get your foot up in a bent position like that.
(Changing the subject, try this, which Octavia has always been able to do and I find quite impossible. Stand with your heels against a wall. Now bend down and put your head on your knees (assuming you can do this at all, but don’t worry, if you can get within six inches I’ll give it to you). I have never seen anyone else do this.)
In reply to Marc C:
That was almost too easy wasn't it? There was I feeling chuffed at the thought of having cleanly climbed Mutiny Crack at long last! It was the hoardes of spectators that prompted me to think that maybe something was amiss... That and your naked lap of honour along the top of the crag.
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth) ... But that 'incredible arete at Burbage' went last Sunday (Daz did the first moves and I led through on the a cheval upper section) ...
That was almost too easy wasn't it? There was I feeling chuffed at the thought of having cleanly climbed Mutiny Crack at long last! It was the hoardes of spectators that prompted me to think that maybe something was amiss... That and your naked lap of honour along the top of the crag.
In reply to Tyler:
Well, it does tend to, for some reason. But what I meant was that to get a longer leg into position to hook that hold wouldn't be practical at all: you'd have to lean backwards more, and then.....
Well, it does tend to, for some reason. But what I meant was that to get a longer leg into position to hook that hold wouldn't be practical at all: you'd have to lean backwards more, and then.....
In reply to Adam Lincoln: I wonder at what height he moved out onto the arete? that looks like chalk on the little curving crack towards the bottom?
In reply to Marc C:
I'm both impressed and a bit disappointed, Marc. Impressed that you have kept such an achievement quiet for two days, but a bit disappointed that it turned out to be so straightforward. However you did well to snatch it between those very heavy snow showers we had on Sunday.
I'm both impressed and a bit disappointed, Marc. Impressed that you have kept such an achievement quiet for two days, but a bit disappointed that it turned out to be so straightforward. However you did well to snatch it between those very heavy snow showers we had on Sunday.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
are her feet about 2 feet long? ;¬)
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> (Changing the subject, try this, which Octavia has always been able to do and I find quite impossible. Stand with your heels against a wall. Now bend down and put your head on your knees (assuming you can do this at all, but don’t worry, if you can get within six inches I’ll give it to you). I have never seen anyone else do this.)
> (Changing the subject, try this, which Octavia has always been able to do and I find quite impossible. Stand with your heels against a wall. Now bend down and put your head on your knees (assuming you can do this at all, but don’t worry, if you can get within six inches I’ll give it to you). I have never seen anyone else do this.)
are her feet about 2 feet long? ;¬)
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
What? Why would height have anything to do with it???
Where does the route go? Do you got up Elder Crack to the gear then traverse horizontally? Or up to the gear, down climb to the bottom of the arete, and then all the way up that?
Siderunner or not - you wouldn't want to fall off from where he is in the photo - that would be a real hard swing!
> (Now then, all you reachwhingers, try and imagine doing that if you were 6ft)
What? Why would height have anything to do with it???
Where does the route go? Do you got up Elder Crack to the gear then traverse horizontally? Or up to the gear, down climb to the bottom of the arete, and then all the way up that?
Siderunner or not - you wouldn't want to fall off from where he is in the photo - that would be a real hard swing!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Just tried (wearing jeans and timberlands which might not be the best combo for gymnastics!) if I can put my hands on the floor I can get within about 3 inches. Without hands on floor I fall over way before getting anywhere close.
> (Changing the subject, try this, which Octavia has always been able to do and I find quite impossible. Stand with your heels against a wall. Now bend down and put your head on your knees (assuming you can do this at all, but don’t worry, if you can get within six inches I’ll give it to you). I have never seen anyone else do this.)
Just tried (wearing jeans and timberlands which might not be the best combo for gymnastics!) if I can put my hands on the floor I can get within about 3 inches. Without hands on floor I fall over way before getting anywhere close.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Tut tut... Ethics Gordon! You know about our purist stance on first ascents: we WAITED until it was snowing before we started up it.
re Steve McClure's position. No way is it possibe to move upwards from that position. It's very impressive I grant you. But I assumed such a position - for the delectation of a gaggle of Japanese tourists - when I was leading up Pedestal Left Hand at The Roaches. I don't know about inscrutable Orientals - their amusement at my discomfort and consequent downfall was very apparent.
re Steve McClure's position. No way is it possibe to move upwards from that position. It's very impressive I grant you. But I assumed such a position - for the delectation of a gaggle of Japanese tourists - when I was leading up Pedestal Left Hand at The Roaches. I don't know about inscrutable Orientals - their amusement at my discomfort and consequent downfall was very apparent.
In reply to TobyA:
its good isn't it? you start of thinking you're going to do it then . . .
> Without hands on floor I fall over way before getting anywhere close.
its good isn't it? you start of thinking you're going to do it then . . .
In reply to Marc C:
Yes, but then went and spoilt your fine ascent by using the dubious tactics of a hanging belay halfway up. I cannot believe you did not use combined tactics. Strange that you didn't call in at the Grouse afterwards. Obviously you had something to hide.
Yes, but then went and spoilt your fine ascent by using the dubious tactics of a hanging belay halfway up. I cannot believe you did not use combined tactics. Strange that you didn't call in at the Grouse afterwards. Obviously you had something to hide.
In reply to rich:
Its a woman thing, lots of them can do it but most men fall over a few inches from the floor.
Its a woman thing, lots of them can do it but most men fall over a few inches from the floor.
In reply to TobyA:
punter, i may be one step behind sloper in the pudgy stakes but I can get my hands on the floor and keep my legs straight.
See, all those lonely teenage nights trying to self fellate were not wasted.
punter, i may be one step behind sloper in the pudgy stakes but I can get my hands on the floor and keep my legs straight.
See, all those lonely teenage nights trying to self fellate were not wasted.
In reply to TobyA:
How on earth do you get your hands on the floor? Can't remember if it was a specific rule but anyway, keeping your hands by your sides. That's the way the gymnasts all do it.
As for being tall see my reply to Tyler. It doesn't help, trust me.
How on earth do you get your hands on the floor? Can't remember if it was a specific rule but anyway, keeping your hands by your sides. That's the way the gymnasts all do it.
As for being tall see my reply to Tyler. It doesn't help, trust me.
In reply to sutty:
Most men I know fall over about three feet away from the floor. The crux is when your head is furthest out from the wall.
I'm not sure we're doing the same problem. I don't know any women who can do it either.
Most men I know fall over about three feet away from the floor. The crux is when your head is furthest out from the wall.
I'm not sure we're doing the same problem. I don't know any women who can do it either.
In reply to John Rushby:
So can I, easily. This is much harder. Are you sure you’re keeping your heels against the wall?
So can I, easily. This is much harder. Are you sure you’re keeping your heels against the wall?
Fantastic effort. Is the crux still the same as for Elder Crack?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: just got the office trying that..... results are headsame height as knees then heels lift up and fall
In reply to Adders: Sorry to ask again...but where does the route move over to the arete? Not that I plan to have a go!
In reply to richard bradley @ work: good effort doing *the* move but wherever the gear is the route is pretty safe I'd guess...E7 for difficulty then but not for danger...soon these two will be combined by the new blood...the Cratcliffe Groove anyone...?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
At Last! Someone actually doing these 'last great problems' (first since 'Equilibrium'?) as apposed to repeating others.
F@@cking well done Steve!
At Last! Someone actually doing these 'last great problems' (first since 'Equilibrium'?) as apposed to repeating others.
F@@cking well done Steve!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
You can't touch the floor bending over with your legs straight? How do you ever get your leg up to do the strange grit and slate rockovers?
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> How on earth do you get your hands on the floor?
>
> How on earth do you get your hands on the floor?
You can't touch the floor bending over with your legs straight? How do you ever get your leg up to do the strange grit and slate rockovers?
In reply to richard bradley @ work:
I have just added a photo here - http://www.rockfax.com/images/photos.html?id=12661
I am guessing but I expect that it arrives on the arete just above the crux of Elder Crack. In the photo that would be just above the small curving overlap on the right of the crack.
Alan
> (In reply to Adders) Sorry to ask again...but where does the route move over to the arete? Not that I plan to have a go!
I have just added a photo here - http://www.rockfax.com/images/photos.html?id=12661
I am guessing but I expect that it arrives on the arete just above the crux of Elder Crack. In the photo that would be just above the small curving overlap on the right of the crack.
Alan
In reply to TobyA:
well, i went for the dynamic version (no hands0 and ended up headbutting myself in the knee... does that count?
well, i went for the dynamic version (no hands0 and ended up headbutting myself in the knee... does that count?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/news/index.html
Has he got a cape on in this picture? It would explain a lot if he has.
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/news/index.html
Has he got a cape on in this picture? It would explain a lot if he has.
In reply to Kev Wynne: Look again. His leg covers most of his top making him look like the caped crusader.
In reply to Richard Bradley:
Well it is well protected and many had tried to top-rope it, so it sounds like it must be pretty hard. Also the grade of 7a/b makes me think that Steve maybe wanted to give it 7b which is a pretty rare grade. However a breakthrough in technical trad climbing I doubt in so much as I suspect that there are extended boulder problems this hard. Not sure what V grade that translates as though.
Alan
> Is this a leap forward in technical trad climbing?
Well it is well protected and many had tried to top-rope it, so it sounds like it must be pretty hard. Also the grade of 7a/b makes me think that Steve maybe wanted to give it 7b which is a pretty rare grade. However a breakthrough in technical trad climbing I doubt in so much as I suspect that there are extended boulder problems this hard. Not sure what V grade that translates as though.
Alan
In reply to Alan James, ROCKFAX: I suppose the problem is that lots of grit routes could be mistaken for highball boulder stuff.
Looks like a good effort though.
Looks like a good effort though.
In reply to Adam Lincoln: not sure last great line is the most realistic historical title but magnificent ascent and having like many others sat beneath that line and wondered.
great effort and dedication steve.
great effort and dedication steve.
In reply to Removed User: There's video of the climb on Planetfear. Brilliant stuff to go round the arete!
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/movies/elderstatesman.wmv
http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/movies/elderstatesman.wmv
In reply to TobyA: Of course I can. But not while keeping my heels against a wall.
In reply to Richard Bradley: Looks a bit easy though! I'd say Severe to gain the arete thence VDiff thereafter.
In reply to richard bradley @ work:
The gear's placed as high as he can reach; then footjam at head height, hang off this to reach out horizontally for the arete with left hand, rearrange feet, dyno for a hold high on the arete with right hand barndooring round to the front, reach for the jug. The move shown in the photo isn't in the video.
Cool.
The gear's placed as high as he can reach; then footjam at head height, hang off this to reach out horizontally for the arete with left hand, rearrange feet, dyno for a hold high on the arete with right hand barndooring round to the front, reach for the jug. The move shown in the photo isn't in the video.
Cool.
In reply to Andrew McLellan: Well its pretty good, but I think you're overstating it Adam, the last great line on grit is 'The Groove' at Cratcliffe.
In reply to Al Evans:
Al, I think you're splitting hairs here. It was a last great line, not the last great line.
Yes, there's also the Groove at Cratcliffe, as well as the likes of Wizard Ridge, Smiling Wall etc. But whatever you label the line as, I'm just impressed it's been done.
Al, I think you're splitting hairs here. It was a last great line, not the last great line.
Yes, there's also the Groove at Cratcliffe, as well as the likes of Wizard Ridge, Smiling Wall etc. But whatever you label the line as, I'm just impressed it's been done.
In reply to Stuart S:
Smiling Wall is surely the least impressive last 'great' line anywhere. It's about 15' high!
> Yes, there's also the Groove at Cratcliffe, as well as the likes of Wizard Ridge, Smiling Wall etc.
Smiling Wall is surely the least impressive last 'great' line anywhere. It's about 15' high!
In reply to TobyA:
Do you really climb with straight legs? I hadn't noticed. E2, or even E3, punterdom, may await you if you can learn to flex at the knees?
> You can't touch the floor bending over with your legs straight? How do you ever get your leg up to do the strange grit and slate rockovers?
Do you really climb with straight legs? I hadn't noticed. E2, or even E3, punterdom, may await you if you can learn to flex at the knees?
In reply to tobyfk:
Ok then - one of the last well-known unclimbed bits of rock in the Peak with a nice, readily identifiable feature on it. Better?
Ok then - one of the last well-known unclimbed bits of rock in the Peak with a nice, readily identifiable feature on it. Better?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Anyone know if and when the video will be put back up. I guess it was taken down as the site kept crashing. - alternative hosting anyone? I only got as far to him moving onto the arete before it stopped!!! Good effort on the dyno - I assume that was 'the' move.
Anyone know if and when the video will be put back up. I guess it was taken down as the site kept crashing. - alternative hosting anyone? I only got as far to him moving onto the arete before it stopped!!! Good effort on the dyno - I assume that was 'the' move.
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Good vid, with interesting chat.
On the subject of the grade (bearing in mind I am a punter so my opinion is no doubt worth shyte!), I didn't look too scary at all, and with 5c moved up the top bit. Looks like it is kinda similar to Samson or summit. I woul dguess at E6/7 7a/b.
Certainly not E8 or anything higher.
I think HXS is daft, it is not a grade, folk should just suggest a grade for it, Steve M. is well enough respected for folk not to rip him to pieces for offering a suggestion.
As should Dunning for High Fid. and Andy Earl for his arete at Kyloe In.
It felt good to get that off me chest!
On the subject of the grade (bearing in mind I am a punter so my opinion is no doubt worth shyte!), I didn't look too scary at all, and with 5c moved up the top bit. Looks like it is kinda similar to Samson or summit. I woul dguess at E6/7 7a/b.
Certainly not E8 or anything higher.
I think HXS is daft, it is not a grade, folk should just suggest a grade for it, Steve M. is well enough respected for folk not to rip him to pieces for offering a suggestion.
As should Dunning for High Fid. and Andy Earl for his arete at Kyloe In.
It felt good to get that off me chest!
The video is back up on a host with more bandwidth! URL is on planetFear news page.
In reply to Nj:
>I didn't look too scary at all
>Certainly not E8 or anything higher.
That doesn't mean it gets a low adjective grade. Es are supposed to be for onsight attempts. What's the crux, V11, harder? How many people are going to onsight it? Just like easier climbs that are very serious get high E grades, so should safe climbs that are very technical/difficult.
>http://www.rockfax.com/publications/grades.html?
notice the 'for well-protected routes'
Where's 7b : E9.
>I didn't look too scary at all
>Certainly not E8 or anything higher.
That doesn't mean it gets a low adjective grade. Es are supposed to be for onsight attempts. What's the crux, V11, harder? How many people are going to onsight it? Just like easier climbs that are very serious get high E grades, so should safe climbs that are very technical/difficult.
>http://www.rockfax.com/publications/grades.html?
notice the 'for well-protected routes'
Where's 7b : E9.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Just done it. The trick is to fold from the base of your spine rather than arch over, you don't lose your balance then. Do I get bonus points for getting my chin to touch my upper shins?
>
> Most men I know fall over about three feet away from the floor. The crux is when your head is furthest out from the wall.
>
> Most men I know fall over about three feet away from the floor. The crux is when your head is furthest out from the wall.
>
Just done it. The trick is to fold from the base of your spine rather than arch over, you don't lose your balance then. Do I get bonus points for getting my chin to touch my upper shins?
In reply to squeek: Yeah, I see your point, it is a hard hard move, but it certainly would not be the first E6 7b, so that grade exists for well protected 7b moves (like Little Peculiar), so why not E7 7b or something. After all, it is not very sustained, only a move or two. I cannot see how it warrants E9. I reckon people will throw themselves at this a lot more than at Meshuga, Parthion Shot or even some E8's like Res. Dogs.
Let me say again, this is my worthless opinion, I am not trying to stir up anything here, just having a chat and well prepared to back down if more knowledgable folk chip in!
Let me say again, this is my worthless opinion, I am not trying to stir up anything here, just having a chat and well prepared to back down if more knowledgable folk chip in!
In reply to Ian Hill:
7a/b for the technical difficulty
> (In reply to richard bradley @ work) good effort doing ...E7 for difficulty then but not for danger...
7a/b for the technical difficulty
In reply to Richard Bradley:
It's moved. Now at
http://www.cmedia.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/elderstatesman.wmv
> There's video of the climb on Planetfear
It's moved. Now at
http://www.cmedia.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/elderstatesman.wmv
Its back up
my god that move onto the arete is mind boggling !
In reply to Simon Caldwell: looks like he soloes all the way up and through the cruz of elder crack, why 3 ropes and only one bit of gear?
In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Something to do with controlling the swing, I imagine. Same thing is done on The Swan, for example, at a more manageable grade.
Something to do with controlling the swing, I imagine. Same thing is done on The Swan, for example, at a more manageable grade.
In reply to squeek:
Yup, the ropes rub badly against the sharp arere, so Steve just wanted to up his chances of survival if one or even two ropes cut
Yup, the ropes rub badly against the sharp arere, so Steve just wanted to up his chances of survival if one or even two ropes cut
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
But he didn't say:
"my god that move onto the arete is mind boggling !"
drink more coffee Adam
> (In reply to LankyPaddy)
>
> Yeah, Simon said one post above you...
>
> Yeah, Simon said one post above you...
But he didn't say:
"my god that move onto the arete is mind boggling !"
drink more coffee Adam
In reply to virgil:
I suspect it fluctuates according to time and location. First thing in the morning in bed for instance, I'm sure a singularity opens up that increases localised gravitational effects tenfold.
> (In reply to Mark Tolver)
> but you're only 4'10 so gravity has no effect on your particulate form.
>
> but you're only 4'10 so gravity has no effect on your particulate form.
>
I suspect it fluctuates according to time and location. First thing in the morning in bed for instance, I'm sure a singularity opens up that increases localised gravitational effects tenfold.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Isn't it though......assolutely boggerling.
> (In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA)
>
> my god that move onto the arete is mind boggling !
>
> my god that move onto the arete is mind boggling !
Isn't it though......assolutely boggerling.
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
I refer you to my comment on Bex's thread.
> (In reply to Simon Caldwell)
> [...]
>
> Isn't it though......assolutely boggerling.
> [...]
>
> Isn't it though......assolutely boggerling.
I refer you to my comment on Bex's thread.
In reply to Nj:
I bet they won't. generally, the harder routes that are getting repeated are the bold ones with the doable moves, not the safer ones with the harder moves. That's my impression. Steve's route is super obvious and not too dangerous, the reason it won't have been done until now is cos the move on it is desperate. It's the same reason that Samson hasn't been repeated - super accessible, one move, safeish and yet no-one's bagged the 2nd ascent yet.
On the HXS issue. We're going to get more and more of this cos these one-move routes don't fit into people's ideas of what an E grade reflects. Personally, I think there's value in giving them an E grade that reflects the effort it takes to get the route done. Not necessarily the 'effort' in terms of stamina or whatever, but just what it takes to get up it. E.g. multiple visits for perfect conditions or to nail a particularly on-off boulder problem type move.
> (In reply to squeek) Yeah, I see your point, it is a hard hard move, but it certainly would not be the first E6 7b, so that grade exists for well protected 7b moves (like Little Peculiar), so why not E7 7b or something. After all, it is not very sustained, only a move or two. I cannot see how it warrants E9. I reckon people will throw themselves at this a lot more than at Meshuga, Parthion Shot or even some E8's like Res. Dogs.
I bet they won't. generally, the harder routes that are getting repeated are the bold ones with the doable moves, not the safer ones with the harder moves. That's my impression. Steve's route is super obvious and not too dangerous, the reason it won't have been done until now is cos the move on it is desperate. It's the same reason that Samson hasn't been repeated - super accessible, one move, safeish and yet no-one's bagged the 2nd ascent yet.
On the HXS issue. We're going to get more and more of this cos these one-move routes don't fit into people's ideas of what an E grade reflects. Personally, I think there's value in giving them an E grade that reflects the effort it takes to get the route done. Not necessarily the 'effort' in terms of stamina or whatever, but just what it takes to get up it. E.g. multiple visits for perfect conditions or to nail a particularly on-off boulder problem type move.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
ok, on right thread now, wow!!!
I especially like the bit where he's like, yeah, reckon I'll try a few more of them, adrian goes 'So what next Steve?' . . 'errr, don't know!'
what next after that?!?
ok, on right thread now, wow!!!
I especially like the bit where he's like, yeah, reckon I'll try a few more of them, adrian goes 'So what next Steve?' . . 'errr, don't know!'
what next after that?!?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
As someone asked on the other thread, how come he started with three ropes but seemed to finish with just 1? Pretty mind-boggling move onto the arete.
As someone asked on the other thread, how come he started with three ropes but seemed to finish with just 1? Pretty mind-boggling move onto the arete.
In reply to tony:
Maybe the local Big-Issue seller stole the other two ropes, in order to sell them, to buy heroin (see other thread)
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> As someone asked on the other thread, how come he started with three ropes but seemed to finish with just 1? Pretty mind-boggling move onto the arete.
>
> As someone asked on the other thread, how come he started with three ropes but seemed to finish with just 1? Pretty mind-boggling move onto the arete.
Maybe the local Big-Issue seller stole the other two ropes, in order to sell them, to buy heroin (see other thread)
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Dear Adam
Yes, it was a good effort. But surely the thread be "Latest Great Line Gets Done".
Norrie
Dear Adam
Yes, it was a good effort. But surely the thread be "Latest Great Line Gets Done".
Norrie
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: Good to here what a grit guru thinks. Do you think this should have a higher E grade than your new Devil route at Black rocks? It is a very similar type of route from what I understand, with one move way harder than the rest and not such a bad fall potential.
Do you really think people won't try it, is is a pretty cool and now famous line, and pretty safe, a bit more of a goal than Samson I would think.
Do you really think people won't try it, is is a pretty cool and now famous line, and pretty safe, a bit more of a goal than Samson I would think.
In reply to Nj:
You've got to ask the question why it hadn't been done until now, even though it's relatively safe. It'd be interesting to know how much time Ste spent on it? I bet it's as difficult a route to do than some of the E9s out there and on that basis, why not say it's E9 or whatever for effort. Partheon is basically safe after all. My route at black rocks is more distance than difficulty, so that's even harder to grade. But I thought E7 7a was a fair representation of what it takes to do it. I've briefly tried pulling onto the Elder arete and it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
You've got to ask the question why it hadn't been done until now, even though it's relatively safe. It'd be interesting to know how much time Ste spent on it? I bet it's as difficult a route to do than some of the E9s out there and on that basis, why not say it's E9 or whatever for effort. Partheon is basically safe after all. My route at black rocks is more distance than difficulty, so that's even harder to grade. But I thought E7 7a was a fair representation of what it takes to do it. I've briefly tried pulling onto the Elder arete and it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: Well that is enough explaination for me, cheers for clearing that up. Even more of a nice one to Steve as well.
I look forward to the next one he does!
I look forward to the next one he does!
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
Unless they're a sh*t hot boulderer and can climb 7b. A lower e-grade describes the route better ie safe-ish - this works at all grades. It will be blatantly obvious from the tech grade that a most won't get up it - giving a higher e grade just obscures the nature of the route. HXS ok though, if a bit non-comittal.
> (In reply to Nj)
>
I've briefly tried pulling onto the Elder arete and it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
>
Unless they're a sh*t hot boulderer and can climb 7b. A lower e-grade describes the route better ie safe-ish - this works at all grades. It will be blatantly obvious from the tech grade that a most won't get up it - giving a higher e grade just obscures the nature of the route. HXS ok though, if a bit non-comittal.
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
>it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
No kidding. And that must be the test.
>it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
No kidding. And that must be the test.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Yes but you say 'Last Great Line Gets Done', implying that it is the 'Last Great Line' left to be done.
Didn't you do English at School Troll boy?
For once Norrie is correct.
Yes but you say 'Last Great Line Gets Done', implying that it is the 'Last Great Line' left to be done.
Didn't you do English at School Troll boy?
For once Norrie is correct.
In reply to Anonymous:
only if you don't understand how to use the language in more ways than 'queens' english. Surely it's one of many last great grit lines which many people have had their eyes on and it has been done, Adam has just abbreivated that, hard to understand I know, but I think most people got it......
only if you don't understand how to use the language in more ways than 'queens' english. Surely it's one of many last great grit lines which many people have had their eyes on and it has been done, Adam has just abbreivated that, hard to understand I know, but I think most people got it......
In reply to Woker:
Dear Woker
Never been a queen or English, I agree it should be as you say "Surely it's one of many last great grit lines which many people have had their eyes on and it has been done". I did understand what Adam said.
Norrie
PS What is the next last great grit line to be done.
Dear Woker
Never been a queen or English, I agree it should be as you say "Surely it's one of many last great grit lines which many people have had their eyes on and it has been done". I did understand what Adam said.
Norrie
PS What is the next last great grit line to be done.
In reply to Woker:
Dear Woker
I may one day, what I would not do is post anonymously.
Norrie
> Why don't you learn how to aquire a user profile ?
Dear Woker
I may one day, what I would not do is post anonymously.
Norrie
In reply to Norrie Muir:
FFS.. who really gives s flying f*ck about the perfect grammer, and English required. This is meant to be an informal place, not high f*cking society!
Chill out guys!
FFS.. who really gives s flying f*ck about the perfect grammer, and English required. This is meant to be an informal place, not high f*cking society!
Chill out guys!
In reply to Norrie Muir:
"Last Great Line" is a well known colloquialism in climbing and as such is used entirely correctly. Whilst applying the strictest grammatical rules would mean that it is used wrongly (there can only be one last great line), to do so on a informal climbing forum would be to advertise the fact that one is a pedantic boring tw*t with nothing worth while to contribute.
"Last Great Line" is a well known colloquialism in climbing and as such is used entirely correctly. Whilst applying the strictest grammatical rules would mean that it is used wrongly (there can only be one last great line), to do so on a informal climbing forum would be to advertise the fact that one is a pedantic boring tw*t with nothing worth while to contribute.
In reply to withey:
Dear withey
It is OK, the whole point about climbing should be about great lines.
Norrie
> Chill out guys!
Dear withey
It is OK, the whole point about climbing should be about great lines.
Norrie
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
But you could use exactly the same arguement for not having routes graded HVDiff 5b, but they exist (in the Peak, anyway!). And isn't there a VS 6a on Rusty Wall at Stanage?
> I've briefly tried pulling onto the Elder arete and it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
But you could use exactly the same arguement for not having routes graded HVDiff 5b, but they exist (in the Peak, anyway!). And isn't there a VS 6a on Rusty Wall at Stanage?
In reply to Yorkspud:
Don't agree I'm afraid. A sh*t hot boulderer who can climb 7b can climb E9. A 6b boulderer can climb E7 but he's nowhere near being able to do this route. Giving it E7 says nothing about what it takes to climb it so you may as well not bother. Which is why I suspect it has been given HXS...
> (In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor)
> [...]
> I've briefly tried pulling onto the Elder arete and it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
>
> Unless they're a sh*t hot boulderer and can climb 7b. A lower e-grade describes the route better ie safe-ish - this works at all grades. It will be blatantly obvious from the tech grade that a most won't get up it - giving a higher e grade just obscures the nature of the route.
> [...]
> I've briefly tried pulling onto the Elder arete and it's clearly not going to be climbable to someone only operating at E7.
>
> Unless they're a sh*t hot boulderer and can climb 7b. A lower e-grade describes the route better ie safe-ish - this works at all grades. It will be blatantly obvious from the tech grade that a most won't get up it - giving a higher e grade just obscures the nature of the route.
Don't agree I'm afraid. A sh*t hot boulderer who can climb 7b can climb E9. A 6b boulderer can climb E7 but he's nowhere near being able to do this route. Giving it E7 says nothing about what it takes to climb it so you may as well not bother. Which is why I suspect it has been given HXS...
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
HVD 5b and VS 6a are boulder problem starts with much easier climbing above. I don't think that applies to this route!
HVD 5b and VS 6a are boulder problem starts with much easier climbing above. I don't think that applies to this route!
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
A sh*t hot boulderer who can climb 7b can climb E9.
On grit? Unless they don't like bold routes. Ben Moon?
A sh*t hot boulderer who can climb 7b can climb E9.
On grit? Unless they don't like bold routes. Ben Moon?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Could be a girl, m'Adam?
> (In reply to Anonymous)
>
> I did, yes, hows about you, anonymous boy?
>
> I did, yes, hows about you, anonymous boy?
Could be a girl, m'Adam?
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: E for effort
HXS 7a
Graded cos everyone wants to know the grade straight away and I don't have a clue. Gear at head height and good. A wild jump around the arete is one of the hardest moves I have ever done, if you don't hold the crimp out left you will swing way out, drag your ropes all the way down the arete and then crash backinto the crack, abit of a clatter but not E8 bad, unles the ropes cut!
Also I reckon if you were really tall the jump would be much easier, like 6c, so E6 then?
In the end it doesn't seem to matter that much especially on a route like this.
Graded cos everyone wants to know the grade straight away and I don't have a clue. Gear at head height and good. A wild jump around the arete is one of the hardest moves I have ever done, if you don't hold the crimp out left you will swing way out, drag your ropes all the way down the arete and then crash backinto the crack, abit of a clatter but not E8 bad, unles the ropes cut!
Also I reckon if you were really tall the jump would be much easier, like 6c, so E6 then?
In the end it doesn't seem to matter that much especially on a route like this.
In reply to ste mac:
Hasnt Adrian been trying it aswell? Hope he wasnt peeved Is he worth a bet for the second ascent?
Hasnt Adrian been trying it aswell? Hope he wasnt peeved Is he worth a bet for the second ascent?
In reply to ste mac: Good route anyway. Differs from anything else I've seen. E (for entertainment) 9 7a?
In reply to ste mac:
Well done, Steve. At last a new grit line that's a poper line and not an eliminate. You should be rightly proud. Nice looking move too!
Well done, Steve. At last a new grit line that's a poper line and not an eliminate. You should be rightly proud. Nice looking move too!
In reply to ste mac:
Nice one.... Kool movie
Out of interest is it possible to climb the arete direct without veering off to the crack and then back out on to the arete higher up ?
Shame the movie doesn't show all the moves on the arete also.
Nice one.... Kool movie
Out of interest is it possible to climb the arete direct without veering off to the crack and then back out on to the arete higher up ?
Shame the movie doesn't show all the moves on the arete also.
In reply to ste mac: Its a bit pinicaty but in the video, you clearly have three ropes. Yet when you get to the top, you have lost the green ropes. Did you do it in several takes?
In reply to Jon Dittman:
He untied two and chucked them down for coiling once he reached the first ledge.
He untied two and chucked them down for coiling once he reached the first ledge.
In reply to Woker: Steve's a great climber, and it's mighty impressive to see those moves, but Elder Statesman doesn't seem to be THE line - god knows what grade that would go at......
In reply to MB:
Oh come on, be reasonable!!!
Steve's got enough on his plate finishing off the Last Great Grit Lines, without having to supply you with technical support for your PC.
> why can I only get the sound in Windows Media?
Oh come on, be reasonable!!!
Steve's got enough on his plate finishing off the Last Great Grit Lines, without having to supply you with technical support for your PC.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
do you mean the ledge near the top ?
he says on the vid he uses three ropes to avoid them being cut by the arete. Also he uses two cams in the upper crack you only see him place one but he takes two up there with him.
do you mean the ledge near the top ?
he says on the vid he uses three ropes to avoid them being cut by the arete. Also he uses two cams in the upper crack you only see him place one but he takes two up there with him.
In reply to Marc C:
Just wondered if he'd done those direct arete moves or not really ? I guess no one else has.
Just wondered if he'd done those direct arete moves or not really ? I guess no one else has.
In reply to DazMan: I don't know what's wrong with my computer, but it took me 2 hours to get to Steve moving left onto the arete - 2 hours of static images , occasionally jerking into life staccato fashion. No sound at all (except my blood pressure beginning to get to the boil wiuth frustration)
In reply to Woker:
Doesn’t John Dunne do some portion of this arête on a rope on The Big Issue? Not sure which bit. There were a couple of threads on planetfear about two years ago about who had and hadn’t toproped which portion of it. It was being said then – by Adrian I think - that traversing in wasn’t too bad and wasn’t worth doing (!) and that the ‘real’ line was desperate but would go. But at what height they were talking about traversing in I don’t know – I assumed by the ‘real’ line they were talking about trying to do the whole thing right from the bottom where the arête comes out of Janus, but what do I know?
And it was being rumoured some years back – maybe five – that Johnny D ‘had done all the moves’. But what ‘all the moves’ might mean on this particular feature does seem to be even more elusive then usual.
I’m sure some of our gritstone gurus on the forum are better informed than me.
Doesn’t John Dunne do some portion of this arête on a rope on The Big Issue? Not sure which bit. There were a couple of threads on planetfear about two years ago about who had and hadn’t toproped which portion of it. It was being said then – by Adrian I think - that traversing in wasn’t too bad and wasn’t worth doing (!) and that the ‘real’ line was desperate but would go. But at what height they were talking about traversing in I don’t know – I assumed by the ‘real’ line they were talking about trying to do the whole thing right from the bottom where the arête comes out of Janus, but what do I know?
And it was being rumoured some years back – maybe five – that Johnny D ‘had done all the moves’. But what ‘all the moves’ might mean on this particular feature does seem to be even more elusive then usual.
I’m sure some of our gritstone gurus on the forum are better informed than me.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: Didn't I read somewhere that Dawes' "method" was literally to run in from the slab and try to catch the arete?
And Dunne just does a bog standard ascent of Elder Crack on Big Issue, complete with hilariously OTT product placement.
And Dunne just does a bog standard ascent of Elder Crack on Big Issue, complete with hilariously OTT product placement.
In reply to Peter Walker:
Yes of course he does. Stupid me.
Don't recall reading that myself but if so wouldn't suggest JD was starting from the bottom!
Yes of course he does. Stupid me.
Don't recall reading that myself but if so wouldn't suggest JD was starting from the bottom!
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
update ?
update ?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: This is where I remember that quote from John, but I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere too. Little JD may have been taking the piss out of big JD at the time....
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=21047#278825
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=21047#278825
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
Looks like WMP 8.0 can't read it and assumes it's a sound file.
You can get an update (v9) off the Microsoft site
Looks like WMP 8.0 can't read it and assumes it's a sound file.
You can get an update (v9) off the Microsoft site
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Dunno, I'm feeling pretty chilled about the whole thing what about you ?
Dunno, I'm feeling pretty chilled about the whole thing what about you ?
regarding ropes
I used 3, wish I hadn't bothered now of course, but 1 would be really stupid in case it cut on the arete. When I got to the big ledge just short of the top I was taken off belay and I untied so I could throw the rope down and pull up gear to make an abseil to go down and get out the cams. Before I untied the last rope Adrian appeared at the top with camera so I climbed up with one rope for his footage. Was hardly thinking about continuity problems at that stage and whether people would question the ascent because my ropes didn't quite match up!
I used 3, wish I hadn't bothered now of course, but 1 would be really stupid in case it cut on the arete. When I got to the big ledge just short of the top I was taken off belay and I untied so I could throw the rope down and pull up gear to make an abseil to go down and get out the cams. Before I untied the last rope Adrian appeared at the top with camera so I climbed up with one rope for his footage. Was hardly thinking about continuity problems at that stage and whether people would question the ascent because my ropes didn't quite match up!
In reply to ste mac:
Thanks for clearing that one up Steve. Now, if you could just address why some people aren't able to hear the audio when played through Windows Media Player? Ta.
> regarding ropes
>
> ... Was hardly thinking about continuity problems at that stage and whether people would question the ascent because my ropes didn't quite match up!
>
> ... Was hardly thinking about continuity problems at that stage and whether people would question the ascent because my ropes didn't quite match up!
Thanks for clearing that one up Steve. Now, if you could just address why some people aren't able to hear the audio when played through Windows Media Player? Ta.
In reply to DazMan:
Speak to Adrian Berry at Planetfear. It's his video not Steve's. Leave the man alone!
Speak to Adrian Berry at Planetfear. It's his video not Steve's. Leave the man alone!
In reply to ste mac:
"Was hardly thinking about continuity problems at that stage and whether people would question the ascent because my ropes didn't quite match up! "
I really don't think that was the case, people were just interested.
"Was hardly thinking about continuity problems at that stage and whether people would question the ascent because my ropes didn't quite match up! "
I really don't think that was the case, people were just interested.
In reply to Anonymous:
Was supposed to be ironic.
I'm not seriously suggesting that a new form of climbing ethics for the remaining great grit lines be instituted here i.e. ground-up, onsight, and with a degree in IT support!
> (In reply to DazMan)
>
> Speak to Adrian Berry at Planetfear. It's his video not Steve's. Leave the man alone!
>
> Speak to Adrian Berry at Planetfear. It's his video not Steve's. Leave the man alone!
Was supposed to be ironic.
I'm not seriously suggesting that a new form of climbing ethics for the remaining great grit lines be instituted here i.e. ground-up, onsight, and with a degree in IT support!
Place your bets.
Who do you fancy on making the second assent in the future. For me Sam Whittaker
Who do you fancy on making the second assent in the future. For me Sam Whittaker
In reply to DazMan: Posted this already on the premier posting thread but thought worth adding here. We'll be screening Adrian's film as part of the short lecture tour I'm doing dates in sheffield (this sunday) and Llanberis and london next week. So if anypone is struggling with their PC come along and see it on the big screen.
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