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I just read it had. I don't think it has though.
Has it??
Has it??
In reply to Laurie Rogerson: Where you read it love?
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Good show. It's a bloody excellent bit of climbing. Are sports climbers taking over the universe?
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Was it kept quiet? No news of it on planet fear atall.
In reply to Laurie Rogerson: I am sure there was something about it on here a few weeks ago. Weren't John Dunne and Ben Moon sport climbers before they took over the world in the late 80's?
In reply to Laurie Rogerson:
My mate had to queue for Elder Crack while Steve D did ES. How modern is that?
Was the above post about Ben M a joke? He's never been anything but a sport climber.
My mate had to queue for Elder Crack while Steve D did ES. How modern is that?
Was the above post about Ben M a joke? He's never been anything but a sport climber.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
You should check out the feature in Mountain back in the 80's - 'A Different Sport'. Photo of a young Moon on Scritto's Republic. It did have a bolt in it at the time though
You should check out the feature in Mountain back in the 80's - 'A Different Sport'. Photo of a young Moon on Scritto's Republic. It did have a bolt in it at the time though
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Ouch.
> (In reply to Laurie Rogerson)
>
> Planetfear dont hear about most stuff that goes on...
>
> Planetfear dont hear about most stuff that goes on...
Ouch.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
>Ben Moon
>He's never been anything but a sport climber.
Apparently he's also done a bit of bouldering, but no-one really knows about it.
>Ben Moon
>He's never been anything but a sport climber.
Apparently he's also done a bit of bouldering, but no-one really knows about it.
In reply to richard bradley @ work:
>Are sports climbers taking over the universe?
There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing. Still not many sport-climbers doing stuff on-sight on the big hills.
JAMIE B>
>Are sports climbers taking over the universe?
There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing. Still not many sport-climbers doing stuff on-sight on the big hills.
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
"There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing"
There's a quote we can all take home and treasure.
End of the affair anyone? t'is only Fr7a+.
g
"There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing"
There's a quote we can all take home and treasure.
End of the affair anyone? t'is only Fr7a+.
g
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing.
...but there's a massive difference between climbing and bouldering.
As we all know.
There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing.
...but there's a massive difference between climbing and bouldering.
As we all know.
In reply to colski:
Come and boulder with me Colski, I'll show you that bouldering can be more terminal than climbing with a rope.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=13541
> (In reply to Jamie B not logged in)
> ...but there's a massive difference between climbing and bouldering.
Come and boulder with me Colski, I'll show you that bouldering can be more terminal than climbing with a rope.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=13541
In reply to Gruff: benign live 7a+
meshuga 7b+
giai 7a+
brail trail 7b
angel share 7b
all routes high e's but piss sport grades
meshuga 7b+
giai 7a+
brail trail 7b
angel share 7b
all routes high e's but piss sport grades
In reply to colski:
Colski, Colski - all those bare breasts have obviously affected your brain! You just need a big enough boulder problem, or a bad enough landing and the bouldering/climbing line becomes very fuzzy.
Is there much difference between e.g. Jaded, or Hades, at Souter Head, and the 5b/c problem up the arete on the seaward face of the Girdle Traverse Wall?
> ...but there's a massive difference between climbing and bouldering.
>
> As we all know.
>
> As we all know.
Colski, Colski - all those bare breasts have obviously affected your brain! You just need a big enough boulder problem, or a bad enough landing and the bouldering/climbing line becomes very fuzzy.
Is there much difference between e.g. Jaded, or Hades, at Souter Head, and the 5b/c problem up the arete on the seaward face of the Girdle Traverse Wall?
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
I'd love to Mick, maybe one day...
> (In reply to colski)
>
>
> Come and boulder with me Colski,
>
>
> Come and boulder with me Colski,
I'd love to Mick, maybe one day...
In reply to colski:
You've got a week and a day to fix your sore nadz and book yourself on the same flight as me and Rowie! Get after it!!!
You've got a week and a day to fix your sore nadz and book yourself on the same flight as me and Rowie! Get after it!!!
In reply to Tree Beard: Why do you ask?
In reply to Richard Bradley:
I'd want someone to see me do an E10 or whatever. Especially in this day and age.
Enty
I'd want someone to see me do an E10 or whatever. Especially in this day and age.
Enty
In reply to Gruff:
JAMIE B>
> (In reply to Jamie B not logged in)
>
> "There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing"
>
> There's a quote we can all take home and treasure.
>
> End of the affair anyone? t'is only Fr7a+.
>
The point was that with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission, be it redpoint, headpoint or problem. Climbing instinctively, intuitively and on-sight is a far more relevant ability where the big hills are concerned.
>
> "There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing"
>
> There's a quote we can all take home and treasure.
>
> End of the affair anyone? t'is only Fr7a+.
>
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
What complete and utter bollocks, surely you know that though?
> The point was that with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission, be it redpoint, headpoint or problem.
What complete and utter bollocks, surely you know that though?
In reply to Tyler:
Deadly serious bud; check out Ian Parnell's column in Climber to see what a non-sports climber (Ben Bransby) can acheive by applying on-sight abilty and boldness to big gnarly Patagonian walls.
Could a sports climber have done this?
JAMIE B>
Deadly serious bud; check out Ian Parnell's column in Climber to see what a non-sports climber (Ben Bransby) can acheive by applying on-sight abilty and boldness to big gnarly Patagonian walls.
Could a sports climber have done this?
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
Oh for crying out loud! Cast your mind back to when Ben was the junior INDOOR climbing champion, or perhaps to when he climbed (and continues to climb) most of the hardest boulder problems on grit, especially at Almscliffe where probably no eliminate was left untouched. Or took time out to siege his various headpoint successes into submission.
Pigeon-holing him as a "non-sport climber" just shows that you're buying into the media representation of a brilliant all-rounder as simply a 'trad' climber and as such ignoring the fact that each aspect enriches the other - consider that you don't need to be outrageously bold to onsight hard trad routes (bold E7's are usually around F7a+ - F7b+) if you are capable of F8a+ SPORT onsights, which is another feather to Ben's cap I believe.
Don't take this as too Ben Bransby specific by the way, thankfully most young climbers today are advancing their standard by seeing through this pathetic inter-disciplinary one-upmanship and just getting out there and enjoying the climbing...
Oh for crying out loud! Cast your mind back to when Ben was the junior INDOOR climbing champion, or perhaps to when he climbed (and continues to climb) most of the hardest boulder problems on grit, especially at Almscliffe where probably no eliminate was left untouched. Or took time out to siege his various headpoint successes into submission.
Pigeon-holing him as a "non-sport climber" just shows that you're buying into the media representation of a brilliant all-rounder as simply a 'trad' climber and as such ignoring the fact that each aspect enriches the other - consider that you don't need to be outrageously bold to onsight hard trad routes (bold E7's are usually around F7a+ - F7b+) if you are capable of F8a+ SPORT onsights, which is another feather to Ben's cap I believe.
Don't take this as too Ben Bransby specific by the way, thankfully most young climbers today are advancing their standard by seeing through this pathetic inter-disciplinary one-upmanship and just getting out there and enjoying the climbing...
In reply to Exasperated:
Good climbers are good climbers, some just choose to specialise in differnt areas at diffent times, some are publicised, or self publicised, some arn't.
Good climbers are good climbers, some just choose to specialise in differnt areas at diffent times, some are publicised, or self publicised, some arn't.
In reply to Exasperated:
Phew. You mean to say that climbing E7 on sight is not bold? I think you are talking out of your arse and 99% of climbers will say the same. OF COURSE IT IS BOLD.
Phew. You mean to say that climbing E7 on sight is not bold? I think you are talking out of your arse and 99% of climbers will say the same. OF COURSE IT IS BOLD.
In reply to sutty: not all E7s are bold, not all E*s are bold, the grading system means that E8 can be bold or very hard, look at Loaded at Ilkley for example. Someone who can onsight F8a or whatever could do that route as it is safe.
In reply to Aly:
You miss the point, an E7 leader can lead any E7, not just some poxy grit route tht you select.
THAT is bold, doing any on sight.
You miss the point, an E7 leader can lead any E7, not just some poxy grit route tht you select.
THAT is bold, doing any on sight.
In reply to sutty:
No I don't mean to say that; read the appropriate sentence again with particular attention to the word "outrageously" and its implications to the meanings of the statement.
No I don't mean to say that; read the appropriate sentence again with particular attention to the word "outrageously" and its implications to the meanings of the statement.
In reply to Abverb Watch:
So, what you mean is if you can onsight sport 8A you can do E7 on site? Name ten people who can.
So, what you mean is if you can onsight sport 8A you can do E7 on site? Name ten people who can.
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
You seem to have taken one hell of a tangent there, I was questioning your original assertion that "with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission" which is bollocks. No one doubts BB is a genius climber but there are routes that even he couldn't seige into submission. At the other end of the scale there are people like me (and you I dare say you) who couldn't siege even moderately graded routes into submission, believe me I've tried!
What I suspect you are trying to do is to big yourself up by banging on about the superiority of "your" prefered style of climbing by undermining anyone who headpoints or redpoints routes. The thing is by doing so you are undermining most of the people who you hold up to be on sight heros. I'll bet there isn't a single person who has onsighted E7 who hasn't also spent a fair amount of time siegeing routes (and also failing to seige some routes they've tried).
> (In reply to Tyler)
>
> Deadly serious bud; check out Ian Parnell's column in Climber to see what a non-sports climber (Ben Bransby) can acheive by applying on-sight abilty and boldness to big gnarly Patagonian walls.
>
> Could a sports climber have done this?
>
> JAMIE B>
>
> Deadly serious bud; check out Ian Parnell's column in Climber to see what a non-sports climber (Ben Bransby) can acheive by applying on-sight abilty and boldness to big gnarly Patagonian walls.
>
> Could a sports climber have done this?
>
> JAMIE B>
You seem to have taken one hell of a tangent there, I was questioning your original assertion that "with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission" which is bollocks. No one doubts BB is a genius climber but there are routes that even he couldn't seige into submission. At the other end of the scale there are people like me (and you I dare say you) who couldn't siege even moderately graded routes into submission, believe me I've tried!
What I suspect you are trying to do is to big yourself up by banging on about the superiority of "your" prefered style of climbing by undermining anyone who headpoints or redpoints routes. The thing is by doing so you are undermining most of the people who you hold up to be on sight heros. I'll bet there isn't a single person who has onsighted E7 who hasn't also spent a fair amount of time siegeing routes (and also failing to seige some routes they've tried).
In reply to Tyler:
Dudes....
Just sit down in your armchairs, take a draw on a big phat spliff....
....gotta be better than spraying bullshit every place.....
Mick
Dudes....
Just sit down in your armchairs, take a draw on a big phat spliff....
....gotta be better than spraying bullshit every place.....
Mick
In reply to sutty:
No, that isn't what I mean.
What I meant was (sorry to patronise) that if you are capable of onsighting F8a+ sport routes then you will have a greater physical margin on a bold E7 than someone who can't, therefore the stronger climber NEED NOT BE AS BOLD as the weaker climber, since they will find the climbing easier. That is not to say they won't be as bold, just that they don't have to be.
No, that isn't what I mean.
What I meant was (sorry to patronise) that if you are capable of onsighting F8a+ sport routes then you will have a greater physical margin on a bold E7 than someone who can't, therefore the stronger climber NEED NOT BE AS BOLD as the weaker climber, since they will find the climbing easier. That is not to say they won't be as bold, just that they don't have to be.
In reply to Tethered: your bang on there.same as soloing an e3 to someone is not bold as to someonesle leading a vs is bold whereas the other climber would do it in trainers
grit routes are 99% head routes.if you can o/s 8a os e7 is piss IF you can be bothered with them.
grit routes are 99% head routes.if you can o/s 8a os e7 is piss IF you can be bothered with them.
In reply to o yeah:
how can these routes have such low f grades?
Gia 7a+????? dont some of these routes have british 6c moves on them if they do then you cant give them 7a/7b, go to malham and kilnsey and try to find a british 6c move on the 7a's and 7b's there.
how can these routes have such low f grades?
Gia 7a+????? dont some of these routes have british 6c moves on them if they do then you cant give them 7a/7b, go to malham and kilnsey and try to find a british 6c move on the 7a's and 7b's there.
In reply to Anonymous:
and before you go on about things being sustained...
that sticky wicket thing has something like 1 6b move and 1 6a move and is F7b.
and before you go on about things being sustained...
that sticky wicket thing has something like 1 6b move and 1 6a move and is F7b.
In reply to sutty:
"So, what you mean is if you can onsight sport 8A you can do E7 on site? Name ten people who can."
I'll do that as soon as you can name me 10 people who have onsighted E7 and never Redpointed/headpointed a route into submission!
g
"So, what you mean is if you can onsight sport 8A you can do E7 on site? Name ten people who can."
I'll do that as soon as you can name me 10 people who have onsighted E7 and never Redpointed/headpointed a route into submission!
g
In reply to sutty:
At a guess
McClure
Parry
Cassidy
Petty
Vickers
Gibson
Mirfin
Birket
Hockin
McAffie
At a guess
McClure
Parry
Cassidy
Petty
Vickers
Gibson
Mirfin
Birket
Hockin
McAffie
In reply to Anonymous:
Gaia is harder than 7a+. Definitely is more 7b maybe harder. Thats what it felt like on the flash...
Gaia is harder than 7a+. Definitely is more 7b maybe harder. Thats what it felt like on the flash...
In reply to Tyler:
Of course. Surely everyone knows that exploratory probing in the Greater Ranges is the ultimate expression of the climbing art and everything else is just practicing?
JAMIE B>
> > What I suspect you are trying to do is to big yourself up by banging on about the superiority of "your" prefered style of climbing by undermining anyone who headpoints or redpoints routes.
Of course. Surely everyone knows that exploratory probing in the Greater Ranges is the ultimate expression of the climbing art and everything else is just practicing?
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
off you trot then Jamie, go and r.p. the very big and the very small please.
> (In reply to Gruff)
The point was that with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission,
off you trot then Jamie, go and r.p. the very big and the very small please.
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
"Bouldering is the poetry of mountaineering" - Pat Ament (1970)
> (In reply to Tyler)
>
> [...]
>
> Of course. Surely everyone knows that exploratory probing in the Greater Ranges is the ultimate expression of the climbing art and everything else is just practicing?
>
> JAMIE B>
>
> [...]
>
> Of course. Surely everyone knows that exploratory probing in the Greater Ranges is the ultimate expression of the climbing art and everything else is just practicing?
>
> JAMIE B>
"Bouldering is the poetry of mountaineering" - Pat Ament (1970)
In reply to virgil:
>The point was that with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission,
Actually, was that the point? Maybe the comparison between redpointing and headpointing was something along the lines of seeing Elder Statesman for what it is; one really hard move that once you get dialed is as safe as a boulder problem, because you just aren't going to fall off. Nobody ever gets hurt on headpoints.
I dunno, no disrespect is intended to the guys who've lead it, but the fawning admiration just doesn't ring true when there are braver (on-sighting in gnarly mountains) and harder (Hello Mr Gaskins) moves getting done. I think it's telling that McLure himself has declared himself dissapointed with the route aesthetically.
JAMIE B>
>The point was that with enough practice and specific training you can siege anything into into submission,
Actually, was that the point? Maybe the comparison between redpointing and headpointing was something along the lines of seeing Elder Statesman for what it is; one really hard move that once you get dialed is as safe as a boulder problem, because you just aren't going to fall off. Nobody ever gets hurt on headpoints.
I dunno, no disrespect is intended to the guys who've lead it, but the fawning admiration just doesn't ring true when there are braver (on-sighting in gnarly mountains) and harder (Hello Mr Gaskins) moves getting done. I think it's telling that McLure himself has declared himself dissapointed with the route aesthetically.
JAMIE B>
In reply to sutty:
That depends. For example, I'm quite happy climbing 6a. For me, an E2 5a isn't bold. For someone whose limit was 5a it would be hugely bold. With a run-out E7 (say 6b), if someone's technical limit is 6b then they'll find it hugely bold; if they're happily climbing 7a routes every week it will probably not feel bold. Remember, boldness is a subjective thing.
> (In reply to Exasperated)
>
> Phew. You mean to say that climbing E7 on sight is not bold? I think you are talking out of your arse and 99% of climbers will say the same. OF COURSE IT IS BOLD.
>
> Phew. You mean to say that climbing E7 on sight is not bold? I think you are talking out of your arse and 99% of climbers will say the same. OF COURSE IT IS BOLD.
That depends. For example, I'm quite happy climbing 6a. For me, an E2 5a isn't bold. For someone whose limit was 5a it would be hugely bold. With a run-out E7 (say 6b), if someone's technical limit is 6b then they'll find it hugely bold; if they're happily climbing 7a routes every week it will probably not feel bold. Remember, boldness is a subjective thing.
In reply to Anonymous:
There isnt a person on this earth that happily climbs 7a routes every week.
even top boulders who sometimes do font8a's first go could not claim to climb 7a easily, if they do they are talkin out t'arse.
There isnt a person on this earth that happily climbs 7a routes every week.
even top boulders who sometimes do font8a's first go could not claim to climb 7a easily, if they do they are talkin out t'arse.
In reply to Jamie B not logged in:
Have you read the 'Taming the Beast' piece by Neil Gresham in the intro to the new Cloggy guide ?
The mantra of "its only 7a, you can't fall off 7a" 120' (or whatever) above a dodgy RP facing a full body shake ?
A brilliant piece of palm sweating writing. It doesn't make it sound like there's "not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing".
> There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing. Still not many sport-climbers doing stuff on-sight on the big hills.
Have you read the 'Taming the Beast' piece by Neil Gresham in the intro to the new Cloggy guide ?
The mantra of "its only 7a, you can't fall off 7a" 120' (or whatever) above a dodgy RP facing a full body shake ?
A brilliant piece of palm sweating writing. It doesn't make it sound like there's "not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing".
In reply to Jamie B: As always Jamie B you don't know what you are talking about and end up making a fool of yourself. Try and research what you say next time you prat.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
i'll have you know Ben Moon has climbed on Cloggy!!
When I did AMSND in 1984, who should be starting off up the first pitch....?
Steve Lewis and one Ben Moon
Just for the record,after a few attempts and role reversals one of them (can't remember who) eventually got up pitch one then they abbed off the GW stance.
i'll have you know Ben Moon has climbed on Cloggy!!
When I did AMSND in 1984, who should be starting off up the first pitch....?
Steve Lewis and one Ben Moon
Just for the record,after a few attempts and role reversals one of them (can't remember who) eventually got up pitch one then they abbed off the GW stance.
In reply to Graham Hoey:
Hasn't he also done some route on Sron Ulladale?? Was looking at the guide at the weekend and I think I saw his name in there. Might have been Stone or Moskill Grooves.
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously1)
> i'll have you know Ben Moon has climbed on Cloggy!!
> i'll have you know Ben Moon has climbed on Cloggy!!
Hasn't he also done some route on Sron Ulladale?? Was looking at the guide at the weekend and I think I saw his name in there. Might have been Stone or Moskill Grooves.
In reply to Tree Beard: where are the ent wives
In reply to levitate me:
She's off to the UK tomorrow to see our nephew.
I'm off up The Ventoux, 20cm of snow last night.
The Ent
She's off to the UK tomorrow to see our nephew.
I'm off up The Ventoux, 20cm of snow last night.
The Ent
In reply to scotsman:
Thank you for that constructive contribution to the discussion. If you're going to call me names please reveal yourself and/or do so to my face.
JAMIE B>
> As always Jamie B you don't know what you are talking about and end up making a fool of yourself. Try and research what you say next time you prat.
Thank you for that constructive contribution to the discussion. If you're going to call me names please reveal yourself and/or do so to my face.
JAMIE B>
In reply to GrahamD:
JAMIE B>
> The mantra of "its only 7a, you can't fall off 7a" 120' (or whatever) above a dodgy RP facing a full body shake ?
>
And he didn't, which surely proves the point.
>
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B.:
It certainly does not prove your point - 7a should have been comfortable for Neil Gresham but the nature of the climb made it very touch and go. The prose leaves you in no doubt that smeary f7a with absolute death potential is IN NO WAY comparable to its sports equivalent.
It certainly does not prove your point - 7a should have been comfortable for Neil Gresham but the nature of the climb made it very touch and go. The prose leaves you in no doubt that smeary f7a with absolute death potential is IN NO WAY comparable to its sports equivalent.
In reply to GrahamD:
Hmmmm, you may be be right. Which might in turn explain why nobody's looked at it since.
Am not neccessarily trying to make a point. Just wondering (aloud) why this Elder Statesman exitement leaves me cold. Was far more impressed my Sam Whittaker's ascent (with minimal prctice) of Appointment with Death.
You must admit, there's not much comparison between Indian Face and Elder Statesman.
JAMIE B>
Hmmmm, you may be be right. Which might in turn explain why nobody's looked at it since.
Am not neccessarily trying to make a point. Just wondering (aloud) why this Elder Statesman exitement leaves me cold. Was far more impressed my Sam Whittaker's ascent (with minimal prctice) of Appointment with Death.
You must admit, there's not much comparison between Indian Face and Elder Statesman.
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B.:
Who, apart from you, is trying to make a comparison. Instead of viewing things on their own merits you seem only interested doing down one style of climbing in a pathetic attempt to agrandise your own chosen style.
> You must admit, there's not much comparison between Indian Face and Elder Statesman.
Who, apart from you, is trying to make a comparison. Instead of viewing things on their own merits you seem only interested doing down one style of climbing in a pathetic attempt to agrandise your own chosen style.
In reply to GrahamD: Is Indian Face only french 7a? Eh?!
It is given E9 6c, no 7a routes have any 6c on them. I thought it was 7b+?! 7a makes it sound less impressive.
Huh. I am slightly disappointed.
It is given E9 6c, no 7a routes have any 6c on them. I thought it was 7b+?! 7a makes it sound less impressive.
Huh. I am slightly disappointed.
In reply to Jamie B.:
Its not obvious to me either, except that it proves (if proof were actually needed) that Steve Mc is at the forefront of most aspects of rock climbing in the UK.
Agreed - Gritstone outcrop climbing is pretty much at one end of the spectrum of trad climbing. As seriousness increases, absolute technical difficulty becomes less relevant. A well protected (or even short and well rehearsed) gritstone route presumably requires less in the way of mind games and more in the way of physical climbing ability than, say, the Great Wall or Gogarth top end routes.
Its not obvious to me either, except that it proves (if proof were actually needed) that Steve Mc is at the forefront of most aspects of rock climbing in the UK.
Agreed - Gritstone outcrop climbing is pretty much at one end of the spectrum of trad climbing. As seriousness increases, absolute technical difficulty becomes less relevant. A well protected (or even short and well rehearsed) gritstone route presumably requires less in the way of mind games and more in the way of physical climbing ability than, say, the Great Wall or Gogarth top end routes.
In reply to Nj:
UK E9 6b/6c according to the latest guide book. f7a or f7a+ from memory. Its had loads of top roped ascents but, as far as I know, only 3 leads in 28 years. Read an account of any ascent and you will be impressed !
UK E9 6b/6c according to the latest guide book. f7a or f7a+ from memory. Its had loads of top roped ascents but, as far as I know, only 3 leads in 28 years. Read an account of any ascent and you will be impressed !
In reply to GrahamD:
...apart from trad on-sighting. The people who do excel in this discipline (Bransby, Thaw, Houlding, Whittaker, etc) are the same ones that go and climb adventurous routes on-sight in big mountains. Make of this what you will. Personaly I think that on-sighting and adventure are the heart and soul of climbing and deserve more recognition. This in no way detracts from my recognition of McLure and Dunning's ability.
JAMIE B>
> ...it proves (if proof were actually needed) that Steve Mc is at the forefront of most aspects of rock climbing in the UK.
...apart from trad on-sighting. The people who do excel in this discipline (Bransby, Thaw, Houlding, Whittaker, etc) are the same ones that go and climb adventurous routes on-sight in big mountains. Make of this what you will. Personaly I think that on-sighting and adventure are the heart and soul of climbing and deserve more recognition. This in no way detracts from my recognition of McLure and Dunning's ability.
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B.:
I was with Steve in Greenland last summer. He climbed a 800m new route with no resort to fixed gear, including on-sight pitches of E5/6. It included a F7c roof pitch (pitch 21) that was climbed in the wet "and felt like 8b". I can't think of many other British climbers who would have been capable of that. Steve's not a super bold climber, but he's not a pure sport climber either.
I was with Steve in Greenland last summer. He climbed a 800m new route with no resort to fixed gear, including on-sight pitches of E5/6. It included a F7c roof pitch (pitch 21) that was climbed in the wet "and felt like 8b". I can't think of many other British climbers who would have been capable of that. Steve's not a super bold climber, but he's not a pure sport climber either.
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
So how come that gets minimal media attention compared to the Elder Staesman spraff?
JAMIE B>
So how come that gets minimal media attention compared to the Elder Staesman spraff?
JAMIE B>
In reply to Jamie B.:
Greenland's farther away from Sheffield
Greenland's farther away from Sheffield
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
Good grief. Do F7c roofs really weigh in at a mere E5/6?!
Indian Face is normally quoted at F7b+, although what relevance this kind of comparison can possibly have is something I always find difficult to understand.
Good grief. Do F7c roofs really weigh in at a mere E5/6?!
Indian Face is normally quoted at F7b+, although what relevance this kind of comparison can possibly have is something I always find difficult to understand.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:
Carefully phrased - the roof wasn't *on-sighted*.
> (In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor)
>
> Good grief. Do F7c roofs really weigh in at a mere E5/6?!
>
> Good grief. Do F7c roofs really weigh in at a mere E5/6?!
Carefully phrased - the roof wasn't *on-sighted*.
In reply to Gruff:
Yeah right end of the affair's F7a+.
For 1, how can you grade something like grit with a sport grade? The styles are that different it's almost a completely different sport.
For 2, Try top roping it, if you can onsight most F7a+ routes i still bet you wont get an onsight toprope flash of this one.
I wonder if anybody has ever managed an onsight toprope flash of end of the affair at all.
> (In reply to Jamie B not logged in)
>
> "There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing"
>
> There's a quote we can all take home and treasure.
>
> End of the affair anyone? t'is only Fr7a+.
>
> g
>
> "There's not actually a lot of difference between sport-climbing and headpointing"
>
> There's a quote we can all take home and treasure.
>
> End of the affair anyone? t'is only Fr7a+.
>
> g
Yeah right end of the affair's F7a+.
For 1, how can you grade something like grit with a sport grade? The styles are that different it's almost a completely different sport.
For 2, Try top roping it, if you can onsight most F7a+ routes i still bet you wont get an onsight toprope flash of this one.
I wonder if anybody has ever managed an onsight toprope flash of end of the affair at all.
In reply to Wuck fit:
Definitely – unless you’re going to get fussy about how it can’t be onsight ‘cos we’ve all seen Leo in Hard Grit. I do agree with your general point that these French grades for grit routes are pointless, though.
In reply to TomB:
Thank goodness for that!
(Surely there are some other UK folk who might be up to the sort of thing you describe, though? John Arran, for example?)
Definitely – unless you’re going to get fussy about how it can’t be onsight ‘cos we’ve all seen Leo in Hard Grit. I do agree with your general point that these French grades for grit routes are pointless, though.
In reply to TomB:
Thank goodness for that!
(Surely there are some other UK folk who might be up to the sort of thing you describe, though? John Arran, for example?)
In reply to Wuck fit:
Why stop there? Why not say that Font grades are unsuitable for anywhere but Font as well, after all, Font is such a different style of climbing to any other place that "it's almost a completely different sport." There's bound to be some kind of cross over between grades, after all, they reflect the difficulty of a climb. Of course trad grades also reflect the serious nature of a route, but it's perfectly possible to give a route like Lord of the Flies an accurate French grade. So what you're saying is that Grit itself doesn't lend itself to the use of French grades. Right, so Grit is really that unique is it? Nothing like the 8a slabs they have on the continent, or The very Big and the Very Small. So what? It's grit, it's not some kind of mysterious rock that requires some voodoo charm in order to climb it (well, no more than Font). Grit is rock, if you stuck a few bolts in it, it'd get a French grade, simple as that, saying that it's not comparable stinks of arrogant grit worship IMO.
Besides all that rubbish, my point in the first place was to show that there should be a distinction between headpointing and redpointing. By facetiously comparing End of the affair with a sport grade of Fr7a+ (a piece of sport climbing piss, in relative terms), I was pointing out there is a great deal of difference between climbing a sport route and climbing a grit "head job".
I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough in my first post, or any of the other related posts following it.
Good luck with sorting out those wits of yours.
Gruff
Why stop there? Why not say that Font grades are unsuitable for anywhere but Font as well, after all, Font is such a different style of climbing to any other place that "it's almost a completely different sport." There's bound to be some kind of cross over between grades, after all, they reflect the difficulty of a climb. Of course trad grades also reflect the serious nature of a route, but it's perfectly possible to give a route like Lord of the Flies an accurate French grade. So what you're saying is that Grit itself doesn't lend itself to the use of French grades. Right, so Grit is really that unique is it? Nothing like the 8a slabs they have on the continent, or The very Big and the Very Small. So what? It's grit, it's not some kind of mysterious rock that requires some voodoo charm in order to climb it (well, no more than Font). Grit is rock, if you stuck a few bolts in it, it'd get a French grade, simple as that, saying that it's not comparable stinks of arrogant grit worship IMO.
Besides all that rubbish, my point in the first place was to show that there should be a distinction between headpointing and redpointing. By facetiously comparing End of the affair with a sport grade of Fr7a+ (a piece of sport climbing piss, in relative terms), I was pointing out there is a great deal of difference between climbing a sport route and climbing a grit "head job".
I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough in my first post, or any of the other related posts following it.
Good luck with sorting out those wits of yours.
Gruff
In reply to Wuck fit:
You are joking arent you?
There are loads of people who have flashed it on a rope. And thats FACT
You are joking arent you?
There are loads of people who have flashed it on a rope. And thats FACT
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Has it been onsighted/ flashed on lead (assuming the world and his wife have seen the video)?
If not, why not?
If not, why not?
In reply to Gruff:
Arrogant grit worship? Think you got the wrong end of the stick there mate (I do that when I go off on one writing 500 word essays too). I don't reckon I've ever met anybody who struggles to climb grit more than I do, that's probably why I fail to see it as F7a+.
Lots of love,
Wuck.
> (In reply to Wuck fit)
>
> Why stop there? Why not say that Font grades are unsuitable for anywhere but Font as well, after all, Font is such a different style of climbing to any other place that "it's almost a completely different sport." There's bound to be some kind of cross over between grades, after all, they reflect the difficulty of a climb. Of course trad grades also reflect the serious nature of a route, but it's perfectly possible to give a route like Lord of the Flies an accurate French grade. So what you're saying is that Grit itself doesn't lend itself to the use of French grades. Right, so Grit is really that unique is it? Nothing like the 8a slabs they have on the continent, or The very Big and the Very Small. So what? It's grit, it's not some kind of mysterious rock that requires some voodoo charm in order to climb it (well, no more than Font). Grit is rock, if you stuck a few bolts in it, it'd get a French grade, simple as that, saying that it's not comparable stinks of arrogant grit worship IMO.
>
> Besides all that rubbish, my point in the first place was to show that there should be a distinction between headpointing and redpointing. By facetiously comparing End of the affair with a sport grade of Fr7a+ (a piece of sport climbing piss, in relative terms), I was pointing out there is a great deal of difference between climbing a sport route and climbing a grit "head job".
>
> I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough in my first post, or any of the other related posts following it.
>
> Good luck with sorting out those wits of yours.
>
> Gruff
>
> Why stop there? Why not say that Font grades are unsuitable for anywhere but Font as well, after all, Font is such a different style of climbing to any other place that "it's almost a completely different sport." There's bound to be some kind of cross over between grades, after all, they reflect the difficulty of a climb. Of course trad grades also reflect the serious nature of a route, but it's perfectly possible to give a route like Lord of the Flies an accurate French grade. So what you're saying is that Grit itself doesn't lend itself to the use of French grades. Right, so Grit is really that unique is it? Nothing like the 8a slabs they have on the continent, or The very Big and the Very Small. So what? It's grit, it's not some kind of mysterious rock that requires some voodoo charm in order to climb it (well, no more than Font). Grit is rock, if you stuck a few bolts in it, it'd get a French grade, simple as that, saying that it's not comparable stinks of arrogant grit worship IMO.
>
> Besides all that rubbish, my point in the first place was to show that there should be a distinction between headpointing and redpointing. By facetiously comparing End of the affair with a sport grade of Fr7a+ (a piece of sport climbing piss, in relative terms), I was pointing out there is a great deal of difference between climbing a sport route and climbing a grit "head job".
>
> I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough in my first post, or any of the other related posts following it.
>
> Good luck with sorting out those wits of yours.
>
> Gruff
Arrogant grit worship? Think you got the wrong end of the stick there mate (I do that when I go off on one writing 500 word essays too). I don't reckon I've ever met anybody who struggles to climb grit more than I do, that's probably why I fail to see it as F7a+.
Lots of love,
Wuck.
In reply to Laurie Rogerson: Perhaps the best parallell with no detriment to Tim is when the aforementioned Mr Lowe took a monster off The Cad shortly after redpointing The Groove at Malham . 6C versus 8A + !!! Trad and sport a bit like fishing and fire eating .
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