UKC

I have always not had a problem with second hand ropes etc. But I have heard a lot of people say the converse. My thoughts have been that any sheath damage will be visible and any huge falls will noticable by the slight kink that they leave. You can get an idea of the age of a rope, and what sort of use it has had by visule inspection.

What do other people think?

In reply to MC: I found one on the cromlech in about 88 and Im stil using it, no problems, merely propoganda to egt you to spend ££££ on gear

In reply to MC:

I think you're right, if they look OK they almost certainly are. I just got pressured into buying some new ones, my B-in-law refused to climb on my old ones just because they were 30 years old. They hadn't been used that much and seemed OK to me. He is a bit under the influence of the safety lobby, all market driven in my opinion, and according to various research available on internet.

When you climb on other peoples ropes it's the same thing, you never know where they've been.

It's true to say new ones are nicer to use, a lot softer.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
It's one thing climbing on your own old ropes, or those of your friends, as the history is known. I'd personally be very wary of using second hand ropes where I didn't know how they'd been treated, how many falls they'd taken, etc.

I certainly don't buy the point about being able to feel a kink in the rope from big falls. I've only got one rope that's taken a single factor 1 fall, and there is no noticable sign of it. So I imagine the same would be true if it took another 7 to bring it up to its maximum.

In reply to MC:

I'm not sure that UV breakdown will be all that obvious ?

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

You mean factor 2 right?

In reply to MC: The point about claims being made about rope longevity being market driven is a valid one. No manufacturer, particularly in the litiginous age we inhabit, is going to encourage people to use ropes for longer than is absolutely safe. Equally, manufacturers are keen to sell as many ropes as they can.

That said, I think you guys are complete nutters! No way would I lead on ropes that old. I change my ropes every year. A couple of hundred quid is a small price to pay for peace of mind, no?

One of the problems with determining the condition of a rope is that so much of it is invisible, and wear can take place inside the sheath with no apparent damage to the sheath itself. Prolonged climbing on gritstone, for example, will ensure the ingress of sharp particles of rock into the rope.

Then there's the unquantifiable effect of UV light on the fibres. And the amount of falls taken on it. Every fall, even a short slump onto gear, constitutes wear and tear.

I don't think, and you can call me paranoid, that it's worth taking that kind of risk with climbing. If I'm thirty feet above my last runner the last thing I want to be worrying about is whether or not my ropes will snap if I fall.

Another consideration: I climb for the pleasure it gives me. Old ropes, that are so worn that they are difficult to handle, only serve to reduce that pleasure.

In reply to huwtj:
No

In reply to GrahamD:

Modern Kermantle ropes have been made from UV stabilised nylon for donkey's years. I really don't understand why this UV degradation myth still persists.

See http://journal.uiaa.ch/download/20003.pdf page 12.

In reply to GrahamD:

What about contamination from chemicals, would that be obvious?

Personally I'd be very wary about buying a second hand rope but maybe I've been taken in by all that propaganda.

In reply to squashiddo:

Read the UIAA article in the link posted by Chris and maybe you'll not be so keen to waste your money in future.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I thought the uiaa rope tests were for factor 2 falls? (well almost factor 2 I think the design of the test rig means it's not exactly 2)

In reply to huwtj:
They are, but a rope rated for say 6 factor 2 falls is still going to wear out after n factor 1 falls, where n is some number greater than 6 which I can't remember how to calculate

In reply to Simon Caldwell: Peace of mind is far from being a waste of money, I'd argue. The tests made on ropes are done in laboratory conditions, and that is a crucial point to bear in mind. Wear and tear on ropes that are used practically every weekend cannot be duplicated in such conditions. So far as I am concerned, once I feel less than 100% confidence in a rope, or, for that matter, any piece of gear, it doesn't get used anymore.

£200 divided by 50 weekends = £4 per weekend. Hardly extravagant, eh?

In reply to squashiddo:

You haven't read the UIAA article, linked earlier in the thread.

In reply to MC:

One thing to remember is that the ropes may not be so weak that they will break but will lose their stretch over time/falls. I have experienced this with ropes maybe 5 years old where a factor 0.5 or so fall hurt a lot more than it should have done.

In reply to chris tan:

Interesting, thanks. I have to admit that I still thought that some UV degradation occurred but I don't know where I heard it.

I certainly don't have a problem with old ropes of my own but I think I'd draw the line at one with unkwon history.

In reply to squashiddo:

"£200 divided by 50 weekends = £4 per weekend. Hardly extravagant, eh?" It is in my book, but how often do you replace you harness, cam, slings, hemets etc etc.

By the way you got any ropes you want to give to a good home then

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


From what I understand, it doesn't really work like that. A very few large falls (factor 2) are very bad for the strength of a rope, but hundreds of small falls are almost negligable to the strength. There was a link to some research into this on an earlier thread about ropes.

In reply to MC:

You beat me to it!

On similar threads, on this and other forums, about the "dangers" of gear out of its wrappers for more than five minutes, I have often made a similar generous offer to dispose of the highly dangerous gear completely free of charge... never had any replies though, curious.

In reply to MC:
I wouldn't go for second hand ropes 'cos of the possibility of chemical damage or big falls. I've been using my single rope for four years now and it'll be replaced at the end of the season. My half rope has been with me for almost six years, but it doesn't get used much so it's still in service.