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What did people think of this years Festival at the Nia in Brum? I was treated this year but shocked to find out the price of entry £18.50 -including a booking fee ( whatever thats for I dont know in the age when Technology should be lowering costs for the organisers) .
Now forgive me for being perhaps outspoken, but I think for what was there this was a rip off. I saw 2 short films and attended 2 1/2 lectures. Most of the gear they were selling was all stuff they obviously could'nt shift during the season.
I guess I prefer to do it rather than watch people climb.
A pound for the weakest cup of shite tea I've ever tasted also .... I think the organisers ie the NIA or is it entreprises are taking people for a ride.
Guess I sound like a winging pom........
Interested to hear your views.
Now forgive me for being perhaps outspoken, but I think for what was there this was a rip off. I saw 2 short films and attended 2 1/2 lectures. Most of the gear they were selling was all stuff they obviously could'nt shift during the season.
I guess I prefer to do it rather than watch people climb.
A pound for the weakest cup of shite tea I've ever tasted also .... I think the organisers ie the NIA or is it entreprises are taking people for a ride.
Guess I sound like a winging pom........
Interested to hear your views.
In reply to Peter K:
I was there on Saturday and thought that the entry price of £16.75 was a little steep for what was on show. The retail area was very sparse on climbing gear, large size climbing shoes aside, and as you say what was available was not the most desirable gear available.
I did enjoy the bouldering world cup though. The French girl that won the womens event was in a class of her own.
I was there on Saturday and thought that the entry price of £16.75 was a little steep for what was on show. The retail area was very sparse on climbing gear, large size climbing shoes aside, and as you say what was available was not the most desirable gear available.
I did enjoy the bouldering world cup though. The French girl that won the womens event was in a class of her own.
In reply to Grover:
I went for the weekend (for £30) and found it to be pretty good value. I disagree about the climbing gear having bought two pairs of rock boots and a pair of approach shoes, and loads of clothes (saving around £250 all in all). I also went to five lectures.
Besides, it was worth it just to see Malcolm crank problem 6 in the final.
I went for the weekend (for £30) and found it to be pretty good value. I disagree about the climbing gear having bought two pairs of rock boots and a pair of approach shoes, and loads of clothes (saving around £250 all in all). I also went to five lectures.
Besides, it was worth it just to see Malcolm crank problem 6 in the final.
In reply to Peter K: I was stewarding so didn't pay to get in, but I think that from the BMC side of things the show would have been worth the cash. I don't know which shops you were looking in, but the stock on offer was not too bad at all, and at very nice prices! Admittedly the selection of climbing gear was a bit poo, but I did pick up 8 cams for less than £100, amongst other things.
As for the climbing, the French girl (Sandrine) was amazing, she totally deserves to be world champ and she is sexy too. Watching Malc campus those micros on problem 6 was also a treat! Nice one for getting 4th mate.
As for the climbing, the French girl (Sandrine) was amazing, she totally deserves to be world champ and she is sexy too. Watching Malc campus those micros on problem 6 was also a treat! Nice one for getting 4th mate.
In reply to Peter K:
I went down as a paying spectator in 1997 and enjoyed it then. Am still totally amazed at how many flok went this time (I missed 1999) and at how much interest there was in the various things to do or see. I was a steward this time so was usually to busy belaying at the "Come & Try It" wall to see much of the competitions but there was plenty of noise coming from that direction.
The comments on the gear were understandable; I couldn't find any decent Approach shoes in my size, but there were plenty of other bits'n' bobs including some very cheap Friends!
The comment about the entry fee is fair enough but, on the other hand, where else could you get all of these activities under one rooffor a lower price? I think the answer is simply that, despite the cost, more and more climbers want to get involved.
Main thing is, will you be going to the next one?
I went down as a paying spectator in 1997 and enjoyed it then. Am still totally amazed at how many flok went this time (I missed 1999) and at how much interest there was in the various things to do or see. I was a steward this time so was usually to busy belaying at the "Come & Try It" wall to see much of the competitions but there was plenty of noise coming from that direction.
The comments on the gear were understandable; I couldn't find any decent Approach shoes in my size, but there were plenty of other bits'n' bobs including some very cheap Friends!
The comment about the entry fee is fair enough but, on the other hand, where else could you get all of these activities under one rooffor a lower price? I think the answer is simply that, despite the cost, more and more climbers want to get involved.
Main thing is, will you be going to the next one?
In reply to Peter K:
Expensive.
Poor time keeping (what time did the Main Event actually start)?
Piss-poor 'specially constructed Berghaus theatre' where it was almost impossible to hear the speaker above the sound of national anthems etc.
Crap shopping areas - too small.
Find a P.A system over which announcements can be heard, display the names of the climbers on the routes, and the grade, on the big screens.
Sort out some proper catering facilities (the pub across the canal was packed with Silverbacks listening to Jazz - nice!).
Hanging out above a big mattress with your shirt off - what's that about Get a tan boys!
Expensive.
Poor time keeping (what time did the Main Event actually start)?
Piss-poor 'specially constructed Berghaus theatre' where it was almost impossible to hear the speaker above the sound of national anthems etc.
Crap shopping areas - too small.
Find a P.A system over which announcements can be heard, display the names of the climbers on the routes, and the grade, on the big screens.
Sort out some proper catering facilities (the pub across the canal was packed with Silverbacks listening to Jazz - nice!).
Hanging out above a big mattress with your shirt off - what's that about Get a tan boys!
In reply to Kipper at work:
You obviously failed to appreciate what was actually going on.
I went on sunday paid only £8.50 to get in.
I watched several films
I bouldered on the fun wall and met some interesting people
I bought some cheap gear
I enjoyed watching the best indoor sport climbers and bouderers in the world doing their problems
The dyno comp was fantastic - what distance did they get in the end????
and i took part in the boudering open beside some great climbers and some great novices all having a good time together - Tim Emmett was there supporting the bouderers expert and novice alike - he had no problem with it so why did you.
And as for tans - it is the f#@*$£g winter!!!!!
Just chill out and enjoy life
people are all to ready to criticise and not just take what is given to them and make the best of what they get.
Ross
You obviously failed to appreciate what was actually going on.
I went on sunday paid only £8.50 to get in.
I watched several films
I bouldered on the fun wall and met some interesting people
I bought some cheap gear
I enjoyed watching the best indoor sport climbers and bouderers in the world doing their problems
The dyno comp was fantastic - what distance did they get in the end????
and i took part in the boudering open beside some great climbers and some great novices all having a good time together - Tim Emmett was there supporting the bouderers expert and novice alike - he had no problem with it so why did you.
And as for tans - it is the f#@*$£g winter!!!!!
Just chill out and enjoy life
people are all to ready to criticise and not just take what is given to them and make the best of what they get.
Ross
In reply to Peter K:
Went to all 3 days, and got in early enough on Friday to shop before it got too busy and all the good stuff went. Shopped, bouldered, went to lectures, watched some amazing climbing. Only issues were with the catering (yuk) and the distinctly unfriendly matting under the public access boulder - though they did add some extra mats later in the festival. Otherwise excellent fun, met some other RTers, managed to learn quite a bit as well.
Any event this size is going to have some niggles, but they were minor ones. Definately worth the dosh.
Went to all 3 days, and got in early enough on Friday to shop before it got too busy and all the good stuff went. Shopped, bouldered, went to lectures, watched some amazing climbing. Only issues were with the catering (yuk) and the distinctly unfriendly matting under the public access boulder - though they did add some extra mats later in the festival. Otherwise excellent fun, met some other RTers, managed to learn quite a bit as well.
Any event this size is going to have some niggles, but they were minor ones. Definately worth the dosh.
In reply to Kipper at work:
Womens Bouldering - Sandrine Levat
Mens Bouldering - Mauro Calibani (Malc Smith 4th)
Masters - Alex Chabot (topped out twice)
OK!
Womens Bouldering - Sandrine Levat
Mens Bouldering - Mauro Calibani (Malc Smith 4th)
Masters - Alex Chabot (topped out twice)
OK!
In reply to Kipper at work:
To be totally honest i wasnt particularly bothered who the winners were as this was unimportant to me - what was important was watching them in action as we can all learn a lot from these rock stars.
They were amazing to watch and anyway i was competing during the prizegiving and then i had to leave to get home for tea and biscuits with the ma and pa.
To be totally honest i wasnt particularly bothered who the winners were as this was unimportant to me - what was important was watching them in action as we can all learn a lot from these rock stars.
They were amazing to watch and anyway i was competing during the prizegiving and then i had to leave to get home for tea and biscuits with the ma and pa.
In reply to Peter K: A few things in reply to all:
Although I loved the show, there are some (reasonable) points I would like to make:
1. The Berghaus theatre (as already mentioned) was appalling. John Duune's lecture was a strain to listen to, and at the end when he asked if anyone had any questions nobody heard him and all started to leave... how bad is that?
2. The mats were on the public boulder at first, we had some big juicy ones but they were nicked to cover a few bad spots in the main bouldering event and were later returned when the event finished. Something to sort out for next time.
3. I HATED the way the scores and details of which climber were on which wall came up for a few minutes on the screen and then dissappeared so we could look at the Entre-Prises logo instead! Why couldn't they leave that information up? So many times I was trying to work out who or where a particular boulderer was and I had to stare at the screen for about 20mins before the info appeared... and then dissapeared! I know Entre-Prises pay a lot of sponsorship and maybe insist on a lot of 'air time' but hey, get them a banner and stick it above the screen or something!
4. The ceremonies on Sunday were abismal! If I was a competitor I would have thrown my trophy on the floor and left. These guys put in maximum effort for several competitions to get to where they were and for what? To run onto stage, listen to a frantically "Speedy-Gonzales" commentator for a few seconds, hear a 7 second clip of their national Anthem, rudely cut short by the commentator and then run off stage quickly so the next bunch could come on! I know the event was behind schedule, and I know the Slovakians had a plane to catch, but I was still amazed! You could hear the crown groaning when he called for the national anthem even before the third place competitor was half way to the podium! Appalling.
A great show with some major flaws.
Although I loved the show, there are some (reasonable) points I would like to make:
1. The Berghaus theatre (as already mentioned) was appalling. John Duune's lecture was a strain to listen to, and at the end when he asked if anyone had any questions nobody heard him and all started to leave... how bad is that?
2. The mats were on the public boulder at first, we had some big juicy ones but they were nicked to cover a few bad spots in the main bouldering event and were later returned when the event finished. Something to sort out for next time.
3. I HATED the way the scores and details of which climber were on which wall came up for a few minutes on the screen and then dissappeared so we could look at the Entre-Prises logo instead! Why couldn't they leave that information up? So many times I was trying to work out who or where a particular boulderer was and I had to stare at the screen for about 20mins before the info appeared... and then dissapeared! I know Entre-Prises pay a lot of sponsorship and maybe insist on a lot of 'air time' but hey, get them a banner and stick it above the screen or something!
4. The ceremonies on Sunday were abismal! If I was a competitor I would have thrown my trophy on the floor and left. These guys put in maximum effort for several competitions to get to where they were and for what? To run onto stage, listen to a frantically "Speedy-Gonzales" commentator for a few seconds, hear a 7 second clip of their national Anthem, rudely cut short by the commentator and then run off stage quickly so the next bunch could come on! I know the event was behind schedule, and I know the Slovakians had a plane to catch, but I was still amazed! You could hear the crown groaning when he called for the national anthem even before the third place competitor was half way to the podium! Appalling.
A great show with some major flaws.
In reply to CC:
Correct - it seems so far that people who bouldered/enjoyed watching bouldering thought it was good. It was a 'Festival of Climbing' though, and the other aspects weren't that good; in fact some, as mentioned above were pretty crap.
And, the fact that it is Winter is no excuse, there are some fine tanning products on the market these days.
Correct - it seems so far that people who bouldered/enjoyed watching bouldering thought it was good. It was a 'Festival of Climbing' though, and the other aspects weren't that good; in fact some, as mentioned above were pretty crap.
And, the fact that it is Winter is no excuse, there are some fine tanning products on the market these days.
In reply to Peter K:
Badly organised, overpriced, poorly serviced, all the trademarks of the BMC
Badly organised, overpriced, poorly serviced, all the trademarks of the BMC
In reply to Ross:
Men: winning distance was by Chris Graham & Ben Heason - 2.38m!
Kath Schirrmacher jumped 1.68m to win the women's
Men: winning distance was by Chris Graham & Ben Heason - 2.38m!
Kath Schirrmacher jumped 1.68m to win the women's
In reply to MattHeason:
Also although Leo Houlding had been knocked out earlier, he borrowed some shoes and gave 2.38m a bash with some pretty nifty footwork! All to the delight of the press i might add!!
It was awesome to see him pull it off though. git.
g
Also although Leo Houlding had been knocked out earlier, he borrowed some shoes and gave 2.38m a bash with some pretty nifty footwork! All to the delight of the press i might add!!
It was awesome to see him pull it off though. git.
g
In reply to Ross:
I was stewarding on Saturday, so didn't get chance to look around much (did see a fair bit of the women's bouldering tho' ).
Appreciate your points in response to "Kipper at work", but don't see why people *should* "make the best of what they get" if what they got could have been much better with a bit more organised direction to the effort.
Personally, I was quite surprised by how poorly organised some elements of things were "backstage". Not having a go at Vanessa, Alex, Anne or anyone, all of whom were working flat out to solve problems, and doing excellent jobs.
However, I was a bit surprised that nothing had been done in advance re, eg, sorting out the registration forms for the Junior Bouldering Comp. Ended up with Emma Twyford's mum taking it on herself and running off registration/ parental consent forms on Saturday, prompted by the large number of kids asking where to register for it. If I'd known that the forms hadn't been done, I'd have happily knocked them up myself beforehand!
There were quite a few similar incidents where people knew that *someone*, *somewhere* must know what was going on, but there was nothing written anywhere easily accessible, and the people to ask weren't always around. I know these things happen at large events, but I've been involved myself in organising stuff, and there was a much bigger feeling of "winging it" on this event than on anything else I've been involved with. Maybe that's climbers for you?
The spreadsheets sent out in advance, carefully listing volunteer's locations/jobs seemed to have no relevance to where people ended up!
As far as the paying public were concerned, yes, there were some good gear bargains to be had, but the overall retail space available/taken up was much smaller than it could have been. Judging by the massive queues outside S & R on Saturday, additional retail space would have been well used, and there was plenty room for it.
The scoreboard was pathetic.
The catering was crap...OK, the French people I saw gobbing off about it were maybe understandable, but plenty Brits were saying the same.
Having so many excellent speakers on site was great...good value even if you only got to see a couple, given that £6 is a fairly normal entry fee for a talk by a "name" these days. However, I completely endorse other comments about the quality of the "theatre".
The "have a go" and public bouldering area (where I spent most of my time) seemed to run fairly smoothly, but I noticed a wide variation in the belaying competence of the volunteers. Not being SPA (minimum) I "didn't qualify" to belay, but would have done, I believe, a safer job than one or two volunteers were doing, despite my lack of paper. I'll stress that *most* were doing a great job, but there were one or two dodgy ones.
Verdict...yes, good, but definitely could have been better.
I was stewarding on Saturday, so didn't get chance to look around much (did see a fair bit of the women's bouldering tho' ).
Appreciate your points in response to "Kipper at work", but don't see why people *should* "make the best of what they get" if what they got could have been much better with a bit more organised direction to the effort.
Personally, I was quite surprised by how poorly organised some elements of things were "backstage". Not having a go at Vanessa, Alex, Anne or anyone, all of whom were working flat out to solve problems, and doing excellent jobs.
However, I was a bit surprised that nothing had been done in advance re, eg, sorting out the registration forms for the Junior Bouldering Comp. Ended up with Emma Twyford's mum taking it on herself and running off registration/ parental consent forms on Saturday, prompted by the large number of kids asking where to register for it. If I'd known that the forms hadn't been done, I'd have happily knocked them up myself beforehand!
There were quite a few similar incidents where people knew that *someone*, *somewhere* must know what was going on, but there was nothing written anywhere easily accessible, and the people to ask weren't always around. I know these things happen at large events, but I've been involved myself in organising stuff, and there was a much bigger feeling of "winging it" on this event than on anything else I've been involved with. Maybe that's climbers for you?
The spreadsheets sent out in advance, carefully listing volunteer's locations/jobs seemed to have no relevance to where people ended up!
As far as the paying public were concerned, yes, there were some good gear bargains to be had, but the overall retail space available/taken up was much smaller than it could have been. Judging by the massive queues outside S & R on Saturday, additional retail space would have been well used, and there was plenty room for it.
The scoreboard was pathetic.
The catering was crap...OK, the French people I saw gobbing off about it were maybe understandable, but plenty Brits were saying the same.
Having so many excellent speakers on site was great...good value even if you only got to see a couple, given that £6 is a fairly normal entry fee for a talk by a "name" these days. However, I completely endorse other comments about the quality of the "theatre".
The "have a go" and public bouldering area (where I spent most of my time) seemed to run fairly smoothly, but I noticed a wide variation in the belaying competence of the volunteers. Not being SPA (minimum) I "didn't qualify" to belay, but would have done, I believe, a safer job than one or two volunteers were doing, despite my lack of paper. I'll stress that *most* were doing a great job, but there were one or two dodgy ones.
Verdict...yes, good, but definitely could have been better.
In reply to CC: Yet another ill-informed and anonymous attack on a fellow-climber (cross reference the Airlie Anderson thread)
To quote CC (anonymous but with a profile)
CC said: 'These guys put in maximum effort for several competitions to get to where they were and for what? To run onto stage, listen to a frantically "Speedy-Gonzales" commentator for a few seconds, hear a 7 second clip of their national Anthem, rudely cut short by the commentator and then run off stage quickly so the next bunch could come on! I know the event was behind schedule, and I know the Slovakians had a plane to catch, but I was still amazed! You could hear the crown groaning when he called for the national anthem even before the third place competitor was half way to the podium! Appalling.'
I was that commentator and you have no idea how much pressure I was under from climbers, coaches, organizers and UIAA officials to do that prize giving quickly, it wasn't my idea, it was what I was being told to do. I was working there as an unpaid volunteer (yes, I know that at competitions abroad the commentator is paid, I'm not). At least get your facts straight CC, whoever you are, the team that had to leave to catch a plane were the Slovenians not the Slovakians. This was the fourth time I've been commentator at World Cup/World Championship event at the NIA and for this one I worked for 10 continuous hours a day for 3 days as commentator and if I was 'rude' and 'appalling' then next time you can put your money where your mouth is and take over from me.
To quote CC (anonymous but with a profile)
CC said: 'These guys put in maximum effort for several competitions to get to where they were and for what? To run onto stage, listen to a frantically "Speedy-Gonzales" commentator for a few seconds, hear a 7 second clip of their national Anthem, rudely cut short by the commentator and then run off stage quickly so the next bunch could come on! I know the event was behind schedule, and I know the Slovakians had a plane to catch, but I was still amazed! You could hear the crown groaning when he called for the national anthem even before the third place competitor was half way to the podium! Appalling.'
I was that commentator and you have no idea how much pressure I was under from climbers, coaches, organizers and UIAA officials to do that prize giving quickly, it wasn't my idea, it was what I was being told to do. I was working there as an unpaid volunteer (yes, I know that at competitions abroad the commentator is paid, I'm not). At least get your facts straight CC, whoever you are, the team that had to leave to catch a plane were the Slovenians not the Slovakians. This was the fourth time I've been commentator at World Cup/World Championship event at the NIA and for this one I worked for 10 continuous hours a day for 3 days as commentator and if I was 'rude' and 'appalling' then next time you can put your money where your mouth is and take over from me.
In reply to all:
Hmmm....how did someone get in for £8.50????
Interesting comments ...jsut to add......
Yes there were some talented climbers - but it was the Junior Comp on Sunday and it really only lasted about 2 hours. More could have been made of the afternoon- cos there was nothing to see in terms of climbing.
Im not having a go - Im just evaluting what I see as not being a value for money day.
I honestlt thought most of the gear they were selling was end of line tat however!!!!! You can get cheaper better gear in France, but Im not going to moan on that one anymore- or try Ellis Brigham in Capel - its their new stock sale outlet with much better kit dirt cheap !!!
As for best of the Kendal film festival - If what I saw was teh best I hate to think how bad it was - the fils I saw were pretty crap except for a skiing one at the start.
And I have previously been to Kendal & that was much better... in my humble opinion, with better lectures too!
As for the future - don't think I'll be going to a future Festival of this type- rather spend my money at a beer festival & have twice as much fun!!!
Hmmm....how did someone get in for £8.50????
Interesting comments ...jsut to add......
Yes there were some talented climbers - but it was the Junior Comp on Sunday and it really only lasted about 2 hours. More could have been made of the afternoon- cos there was nothing to see in terms of climbing.
Im not having a go - Im just evaluting what I see as not being a value for money day.
I honestlt thought most of the gear they were selling was end of line tat however!!!!! You can get cheaper better gear in France, but Im not going to moan on that one anymore- or try Ellis Brigham in Capel - its their new stock sale outlet with much better kit dirt cheap !!!
As for best of the Kendal film festival - If what I saw was teh best I hate to think how bad it was - the fils I saw were pretty crap except for a skiing one at the start.
And I have previously been to Kendal & that was much better... in my humble opinion, with better lectures too!
As for the future - don't think I'll be going to a future Festival of this type- rather spend my money at a beer festival & have twice as much fun!!!
In reply to CC:
Agree with you completely.
And the food situation was f%^&ing disgraceful. Expensive, horrendous. The canteen downstairs was better, but the main meal was a rip off too.
However, I has three great days, bought a lot of gear, bouldered a little, watched some awesome climbers and found it thoroughly worthwhile.
Agree with you completely.
And the food situation was f%^&ing disgraceful. Expensive, horrendous. The canteen downstairs was better, but the main meal was a rip off too.
However, I has three great days, bought a lot of gear, bouldered a little, watched some awesome climbers and found it thoroughly worthwhile.
In reply to Anonymous: Didn't mean to post anonymously, haven't got used to new forum
In reply to Peter K: Well all I can say is Id rather have forked out £18.50 and made most of what was offered than to have spent all day in a f$%*ing supermarket serving some old granny that didnt want some ham coz it had a milli-gramme of fat on it
Who in the BMC organised the F of C 2001?
Are they experienced in this sort of thing?
Why was the so-called Berghaus Theatre right next to the Competition Walls/ (I hear people walked out disgusted).
Why is it not held in a beautiful quaint old climbing town ( with good pubs), like Buxton, Llanberis, Ambleside, Llandudno, Kendal etc
Does it encourage Top Roping?
Why did the big screen next to the competition predominantly have advertizing rather than telling you who was climbing?
Why was the the advertizing so crass and blatant, and why was the service to the paying customer so poor?
Mick R
Are they experienced in this sort of thing?
Why was the so-called Berghaus Theatre right next to the Competition Walls/ (I hear people walked out disgusted).
Why is it not held in a beautiful quaint old climbing town ( with good pubs), like Buxton, Llanberis, Ambleside, Llandudno, Kendal etc
Does it encourage Top Roping?
Why did the big screen next to the competition predominantly have advertizing rather than telling you who was climbing?
Why was the the advertizing so crass and blatant, and why was the service to the paying customer so poor?
Mick R
In reply to commentator: I appologise for making sound like I was attacking you, I was not. I fully appreciate the pressure you must have been under, and I did remember saying to one of my mates that it probably wasn't your own decision that you were rushing things. You seemed to be a bit hassled by the whole affair of the order of the ceremonies etc etc and I'm sure you were a bit hacked off that you were forced to do it the way you did.
It was nothing personal, I thought your commentry all weekend up until then was top-notch, my comment was not referring to you as an individual, heck we could have a go at all the 'faces' we saw over the weekend and blame them for stuff that happened (Shoot the messengers).
Maybe I should have been more careful with my wording, sorry.
It was nothing personal, I thought your commentry all weekend up until then was top-notch, my comment was not referring to you as an individual, heck we could have a go at all the 'faces' we saw over the weekend and blame them for stuff that happened (Shoot the messengers).
Maybe I should have been more careful with my wording, sorry.
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA: Were you there Mick
In reply to Commentator: I accept your comments about 'not my fault guv' and good for you for doing it for nought for all these years. However, as constructive criticism, surely you are now in a position to pass this back as feedback to the other organisers to avoid a future such embarrassing display.
And what was all that shouting at the 2 UK competitors about, when they were reaching that difficult bit of the wall? I thought that your's and JM's encouragement was more off-putting than encouraging. But, admittedly, I'm talking from a point of no climbing comp. experience, so you may know differently.
Mark
And what was all that shouting at the 2 UK competitors about, when they were reaching that difficult bit of the wall? I thought that your's and JM's encouragement was more off-putting than encouraging. But, admittedly, I'm talking from a point of no climbing comp. experience, so you may know differently.
Mark
In reply to Marky Boy:
I doubt very much that Ian would want to act as messenger for Rocktalk users, if you feel that strongly why don't you do it yourself and write to the BMC?
With regards to "shouting at" the competitors, for some people shouting encouragement and trying to get the crowd involved in shouting encouragement can work wonders for a climber, it really can spur you on to dig deep and pull that extra bit. However, I've never done a comp of this caliber but I know it has worked for me in the past at BICC's. That's not to say its for everyone, but I think its nice to try and involve and motivate the crowd to feel part of it, I'm sure if it was in the states there would be loads of noisy support.
With regard to the food supplied, the BMC have absolutely to input into the quality of the food the NIA supply and suggest you contact them.
Ian I'm so glad you got an apology from your critique, I was about to rain down fire and brimstone on them. Having worked with you last year as your runner, I know just how hard you work, that you don't get any breaks at all during the whole thing, how very little information you get, that its very rarely on time, and you have to fight to get it, which is very stressful. And you normally loose your voice for a couple of days afterwards. Given the circumstances I think you do a fine job and probably one that no one wants!
However, I do agree with some of the comments about the organistion, but no body here actually knows how hard it is to run an event as big as this.
I doubt very much that Ian would want to act as messenger for Rocktalk users, if you feel that strongly why don't you do it yourself and write to the BMC?
With regards to "shouting at" the competitors, for some people shouting encouragement and trying to get the crowd involved in shouting encouragement can work wonders for a climber, it really can spur you on to dig deep and pull that extra bit. However, I've never done a comp of this caliber but I know it has worked for me in the past at BICC's. That's not to say its for everyone, but I think its nice to try and involve and motivate the crowd to feel part of it, I'm sure if it was in the states there would be loads of noisy support.
With regard to the food supplied, the BMC have absolutely to input into the quality of the food the NIA supply and suggest you contact them.
Ian I'm so glad you got an apology from your critique, I was about to rain down fire and brimstone on them. Having worked with you last year as your runner, I know just how hard you work, that you don't get any breaks at all during the whole thing, how very little information you get, that its very rarely on time, and you have to fight to get it, which is very stressful. And you normally loose your voice for a couple of days afterwards. Given the circumstances I think you do a fine job and probably one that no one wants!
However, I do agree with some of the comments about the organistion, but no body here actually knows how hard it is to run an event as big as this.
In reply to jop: Thanks to CC, Marky Boy and jop: apology accepted and thanks for the support
In reply to ian smith:
Ah, back on the web after daylight deprivation in the NIA.
About the food - the BMC has very little input into arena food. We just forecasted the number of attendees, and the NIA worked from that. As for the menu, it was a considerable improvement from last year, but any further improvements would have pushed the cost even higher.
And no, unfortunately you can't bring in outside caterers, the NIA has a very strict contract, it's hard even bringing in crisps etc for the volunteers.
Ah, back on the web after daylight deprivation in the NIA.
About the food - the BMC has very little input into arena food. We just forecasted the number of attendees, and the NIA worked from that. As for the menu, it was a considerable improvement from last year, but any further improvements would have pushed the cost even higher.
And no, unfortunately you can't bring in outside caterers, the NIA has a very strict contract, it's hard even bringing in crisps etc for the volunteers.
In reply to Rob Naylor:
Rob Naylor - which area are you a youth BMC co-ordinator for? Do you mind me asking? Thanks.
> The "have a go" and public bouldering area (where I spent most of my time) seemed to run fairly smoothly, but I noticed a wide variation in the belaying competence of the volunteers. Not being SPA (minimum) I "didn't qualify" to belay, but would have done, I believe, a safer job than one or two volunteers were doing, despite my lack of paper. I'll stress that *most* were doing a great job, but there were one or two dodgy ones.
>
Did the belayers have to be SPA trained? I find this quite disturbing because there is no such requirement when the BMC are looking for belayers for the BRYCCS - why the difference? Of course there should be a stated level of belaying and if the SPA is it, great. But why not for all BMC events like the BRYCCS? Maybe someone from the BMC can explain this to me? Mr. Alderson, are you there???
>
Rob Naylor - which area are you a youth BMC co-ordinator for? Do you mind me asking? Thanks.
In reply to Adam Lincoln: That's not the point I am trying to make! Read my message, I am saying that if the BMC have a requirement for the job at one event then why not for another event? I am not making any judgement on the qualification, I don't know anything about the SPA.
In reply to Anonymous:
I was making my point to the BMC, not you. I was wondering that if what you said was true, about needing SPA to belay(which I very much doubt) what is the reasoning behind it?
I was making my point to the BMC, not you. I was wondering that if what you said was true, about needing SPA to belay(which I very much doubt) what is the reasoning behind it?
In reply to Adam Lincoln: My mistake, I am not anonymous, I am Yogi Bear. (But I chose not to use my real name). Do you have to type your name in every time now? ugugug
In reply to Adam Lincoln: I got it, sorry, but your reply said - in reply to Yogi Bear - so I presumed it was for me. My point is why the difference?
In reply to Anonymous: Sorry me again, I can't cope with this name thing!!!!!
In reply to Anonymous:
I doubt there is as I dont think the SPA is needed to belay. In fact iam almost certain! I know people who have belayed at BIC's and BRYC's who dont have the SPA
I doubt there is as I dont think the SPA is needed to belay. In fact iam almost certain! I know people who have belayed at BIC's and BRYC's who dont have the SPA
In reply to Anonymous: There was no actual requirement for SPA at this event either, it was just an easy way to seperate belayers from "other helpers" at the organisation stage. You will find that a few people who were helping out (including myself) do not hold the SPA but were considered experienced enough to belay after a short competence demonstration to Ian (the chap in charge).
I also agree that some of the belaying was a bit poor, and referencing a previous thread regarding Rock Face belayers I still strongly believe that people should be doing these things based on experience and competence to do the task at hand, and not a piece of paper which quite frankly could have been issued by your mate's dad.
In reply to Ian: Glad you accepted the appology, and hope you continue to commentate for these events as you do have the voice for it.
I also agree that some of the belaying was a bit poor, and referencing a previous thread regarding Rock Face belayers I still strongly believe that people should be doing these things based on experience and competence to do the task at hand, and not a piece of paper which quite frankly could have been issued by your mate's dad.
In reply to Ian: Glad you accepted the appology, and hope you continue to commentate for these events as you do have the voice for it.
In reply to Adam Lincoln: My original message was replying to Rob Naylor, quite a way up in the thread. He says the SPA was needed to belay at the come and try it walls... therefore I am saying why not for the BRYCS and BICC, where like you I know it is not needed. In fact at our local BRYCS anyone, and I mean anyone, who offered was taken up with no knowledge of their ability at all by the wall staff or BMC co-ordinator. I find this scary!!!
In reply to alex:
Yeah, and cricket matches dont let you take your own booze. The NIA are rip off merchants so anyone with sense should smuggle food in, just be discrete and tell them youve got special dietry requirements if you get caught (whats the chance of them dealing with that, with the muck they sell).
Yeah, and cricket matches dont let you take your own booze. The NIA are rip off merchants so anyone with sense should smuggle food in, just be discrete and tell them youve got special dietry requirements if you get caught (whats the chance of them dealing with that, with the muck they sell).
In reply to Steve:
Yep - and we smuggled in a hell of a lot of food for the volunteers, hidden in boxes marked "office supplies" at the start.
At one stage last time they told me we weren't allowed a kettle in the office, and had to buy all coffee from the arena.....
Yep - and we smuggled in a hell of a lot of food for the volunteers, hidden in boxes marked "office supplies" at the start.
At one stage last time they told me we weren't allowed a kettle in the office, and had to buy all coffee from the arena.....
In reply to Yogi Bear:
<<Did the belayers have to be SPA trained?>>
I belayed at BRYCCS without any problems about qualifications. I was asked in the FOC volunteer letter to take my gear with me, and assigned to the "have a go" walls, so I assumed that I'd be belaying there, too.
On arrival I reported to Ian McNab for deployment. He had enough belayers right then. We discussed whether I should do relief belaying over lunch, but when I said that I didn't have SPA he told me that I "wasn't qualified" to belay at this venue and would therefore have to be used elsewhere. I ended up helping Helen Twyford in the morning, and manning the "have a go" desk in the afternoon.
<<Did the belayers have to be SPA trained?>>
I belayed at BRYCCS without any problems about qualifications. I was asked in the FOC volunteer letter to take my gear with me, and assigned to the "have a go" walls, so I assumed that I'd be belaying there, too.
On arrival I reported to Ian McNab for deployment. He had enough belayers right then. We discussed whether I should do relief belaying over lunch, but when I said that I didn't have SPA he told me that I "wasn't qualified" to belay at this venue and would therefore have to be used elsewhere. I ended up helping Helen Twyford in the morning, and manning the "have a go" desk in the afternoon.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
See my other response. I too have belayed at BRYCCS. I can only go by what Ian told me on Saturday, which was: "no SPA, can't belay".
I'm sure exceptions were made for people "known to the organisers".
> (In reply to Anonymous)
>
> I doubt there is as I dont think the SPA is needed to belay. In fact iam almost certain! I know people who have belayed at BIC's and BRYC's who dont have the SPA<<
>
> I doubt there is as I dont think the SPA is needed to belay. In fact iam almost certain! I know people who have belayed at BIC's and BRYC's who dont have the SPA<<
See my other response. I too have belayed at BRYCCS. I can only go by what Ian told me on Saturday, which was: "no SPA, can't belay".
I'm sure exceptions were made for people "known to the organisers".
In reply to Yogi Bear:
<<Rob Naylor - which area are you a youth BMC co-ordinator for? Do you mind me asking? Thanks.>>
London and SE. Haven't done much yet except help at BRYCCS & SRYCCS, plus a bit of local work with schools in Kent. Hope to get my teeth into it a bit more next year.
<<Rob Naylor - which area are you a youth BMC co-ordinator for? Do you mind me asking? Thanks.>>
London and SE. Haven't done much yet except help at BRYCCS & SRYCCS, plus a bit of local work with schools in Kent. Hope to get my teeth into it a bit more next year.
In reply to Rob Naylor: I think the "No SPA - no belay" stance was taken since we were belaying for the public. It was good to be able to tell parents that their kids were in safe - qualified hands.
Like I said earlier, I do not hold SPA and at the Friday morning briefing there were a few others too. We all showed Ian our competence and we were allowed to belay. We were on the list already, maybe because of relevant experience which was noted on our application forms. Not sure why you guys were being told you couldn't belay, I can only assume it's because it was later in the weekend and there was really no need for any more belayers. Most of the time there were lots of instructors standing around wondering how they could help.
Like I said earlier, I do not hold SPA and at the Friday morning briefing there were a few others too. We all showed Ian our competence and we were allowed to belay. We were on the list already, maybe because of relevant experience which was noted on our application forms. Not sure why you guys were being told you couldn't belay, I can only assume it's because it was later in the weekend and there was really no need for any more belayers. Most of the time there were lots of instructors standing around wondering how they could help.
In reply to CC:
I don't have a real problem with it. It was just a bit galling to see "papered" individuals belaying somewhat less competently than I believe that I could have done. As you say, most of the time Ian had masses of help there.
I don't have a real problem with it. It was just a bit galling to see "papered" individuals belaying somewhat less competently than I believe that I could have done. As you say, most of the time Ian had masses of help there.
In reply to Peter K:
Peter...I had a completely different take on the competition.
First, it was worth any amount of money to see Sandrine Levet boulder on Sat. Only the word "Goddess" would suffice.
I went with a friend and we'd make our own coffee and sarnies, knowing that the food at these type of events is overpriced and shite.
Then, I just done a workshop with Johnny Dawes the day before and I've never been so inpsired by anything before in my whole life. It's changed my whole outlook on climbing and life. You should do it, and you'll appreciate the presents [sic] of the climbers more than the wrapping.
Have a good life and smile duderino...
Rinaldo
Peter...I had a completely different take on the competition.
First, it was worth any amount of money to see Sandrine Levet boulder on Sat. Only the word "Goddess" would suffice.
I went with a friend and we'd make our own coffee and sarnies, knowing that the food at these type of events is overpriced and shite.
Then, I just done a workshop with Johnny Dawes the day before and I've never been so inpsired by anything before in my whole life. It's changed my whole outlook on climbing and life. You should do it, and you'll appreciate the presents [sic] of the climbers more than the wrapping.
Have a good life and smile duderino...
Rinaldo
In reply to Yogi Bear: Competition belaying and normal belaying are completely different. I was not involved with the Come and Try It walls so can't comment on whether only SPA's were used, although as someone pointed out it is a good way of filtering people at any early stage. For competitions we only use experienced belayers that we know.
In reply to graeme alderson: I am trying to find out why this event was considered different to the BRYCS. No - my real question is why was anyone accepted to belay at BRYCS events without any knowledge of their ability apart from what they said - no test run, no forms filled in, nothing! Please, please, this is a polite please, can it be sorted for next year? In all areas surely volunteers should be either known well or tested on ability? I don't know if the BMC are aware of some of the regional differences of standards but their name is on the entry form and I feel they should hold the responsibility. The area co-ordinator is a volunteer and all credit should go to those that do a good job but that is not always the case.
In reply to graeme alderson:
You say - For competitions we only use experienced belayers that we know.
By saying this you are saying that the BRYCS are not organised by the BMC. Is this true? Who does organise the BRYCS?
You say - For competitions we only use experienced belayers that we know.
By saying this you are saying that the BRYCS are not organised by the BMC. Is this true? Who does organise the BRYCS?
In reply to Yogi Bear: For the BICC and the BRYCS final, which are the only events to which I have input, yes we only use experienced belayers that we know.
In reply to graeme alderson: Thank you for that reply. I understand now. Please can I pester you with one more question - if something goes wrong at a BRYCS area event, like a belayer dropping a kid, who is responsible? The walls around us leave all the decisions to the Area Co-ordinator so I presume it is not the Wall?! If it is not the BMC then by deduction I presume it is the Area Co-ordinator?! If my presumption is correct, I wonder if the Area Co-ordinators take out their own insurance?!
Please Graeme, I understand the problems, but I sill would like an answer. Where does the BUCK end?
Please Graeme, I understand the problems, but I sill would like an answer. Where does the BUCK end?
In reply to graeme alderson: Maybe you could let me know the official line - I would really appreciate an answer.
In reply to Yogi Bear: All BMC Volunteers at BMC events are covered by the BMC's insurance. I would appreciate knowing who you are, not keen on answering anonymous questions.
In reply to alex:
What crisps, I didn't see any crisps. Which fat b****rd ate all the crisps???
The sweets were nice though.
What crisps, I didn't see any crisps. Which fat b****rd ate all the crisps???
The sweets were nice though.
In reply to steve taylor:
There were crisps! - i carried them in - last seen disappearing down desroy's mouth...yeah those sweets were tasty, but after eating them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I still feel a little strange!
alex.
There were crisps! - i carried them in - last seen disappearing down desroy's mouth...yeah those sweets were tasty, but after eating them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I still feel a little strange!
alex.
In reply to Peter K:
Just had a look on the BMC webpage. They think, that the Climbing Festival 2001 was a great success.
Well listen to you folks, it just does not sound that much of a success.
Anybody any views on the workshops and lectures ??
Pief
Just had a look on the BMC webpage. They think, that the Climbing Festival 2001 was a great success.
Well listen to you folks, it just does not sound that much of a success.
Anybody any views on the workshops and lectures ??
Pief
In reply to Pief:
Grimer hilarious as usual, Airlie unintentionally v. funny due to rather obvious hangover. Houlding a bit too "what I did on my holidays", but the film afterwards (one of the Kendal ones) was good in a mellow sort of way. Would have been nice if they hadn't been running so late that I nearly got locked in the NIA for the night
Grimer hilarious as usual, Airlie unintentionally v. funny due to rather obvious hangover. Houlding a bit too "what I did on my holidays", but the film afterwards (one of the Kendal ones) was good in a mellow sort of way. Would have been nice if they hadn't been running so late that I nearly got locked in the NIA for the night
In reply to Wingnut:
Went to the climbing characters lecture - by a bloke I cant remeber - had a coughing fit all the way through but it was funny from what I can gather.
Alan Hinkes was memorable - too many references to bollocks for me though and he really does try V hard to be funny, when I dont think his is the comedian that Billy Connonolly is.....
....saw 15 minutes of a Chinese woman lecturing about the himilaya but she not speek very god enlish.
Generally The Lectures werent the best Ive ever experienced it has to be said.....
Went to the climbing characters lecture - by a bloke I cant remeber - had a coughing fit all the way through but it was funny from what I can gather.
Alan Hinkes was memorable - too many references to bollocks for me though and he really does try V hard to be funny, when I dont think his is the comedian that Billy Connonolly is.....
....saw 15 minutes of a Chinese woman lecturing about the himilaya but she not speek very god enlish.
Generally The Lectures werent the best Ive ever experienced it has to be said.....
In reply to Peter K: I also saw the climbing characters lecture (by Jerry Gore), it was pretty funny! Especially the bit about the nutter and the sky hooks, made my girlfriend give me one of those 'don't you ever get yourself into that situation young man' looks.
Also saw John Dunne, it was ok but a strain to hear.
Also saw John Dunne, it was ok but a strain to hear.
In reply to Peter K: (and everyone else!)
As a parent of a junior climber I have to say that I'm desperately disappointed that not one of you has mentioned the juniors competition - I think it shows just how much support is given to our climbing team. At the very least Bob Elliott deserves huge congratulations for being the only British climber to achieve a podium place over the whole weekend's climbing.
Most of the other comments have just gone to confirm what I have suspected for some time - the only competition the British are actually going to win is one for shopping!
As a parent of a junior climber I have to say that I'm desperately disappointed that not one of you has mentioned the juniors competition - I think it shows just how much support is given to our climbing team. At the very least Bob Elliott deserves huge congratulations for being the only British climber to achieve a podium place over the whole weekend's climbing.
Most of the other comments have just gone to confirm what I have suspected for some time - the only competition the British are actually going to win is one for shopping!
In reply to frustrated mother:
Fair comment, I was there supporting Danny Cattel on Sunday. Anybody else think that the Male Youth B route was a bit of a sack?
g
Fair comment, I was there supporting Danny Cattel on Sunday. Anybody else think that the Male Youth B route was a bit of a sack?
g
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