UKC

if you had to pick a few VS routes at Stanage and thereabouts any aspiring VS climber should be able to get up, what would they be?

i'd like to try as many different kinds/styles of route as possible

In reply to richard turkington:

The Vice etc etc etc etc.

In reply to richard turkington:
For me it was High Neb Butress VS 4c, I had my eye on that for ages before leading it.

In reply to richard turkington:

Inverted V is given VS 4b but is really only HS 4b and ***

In reply to richard turkington:
Maybe....

For boldness: Hargreaves Original
For laybacking: Mississippi Direct
For Jamming: Hell Crack (or better still pop over to Higgar for The file)

In reply to Lizard:

For typical gritstone finishes... Narrow Buttress.

In reply to richard turkington:

All the following are nice for various reasons!

High Neb Buttress
Hargreaves Original
Inverted V
Louisiana Rib
Heather Wall
Via Media
Mississippi Direct

In reply to JG: thanks all, i'll give them a go on my next trip

In reply to JG:

Oh, and make sure your two friends are working before you do Hargreave's, so that they don't jam open on lead, leaving you to jibber up.

In reply to richard turkington:

Not all of the above are especially good for aspiring VS leaders as many are perhaps too bold (High Neb, Hargreaves without a rack of cams) or perhaps a bit hard and sustained (Mississippi Buttress Direct, Hargreaves). Hell Crack, Heather Wall, Via Media and Inverted V are good.

In reply to Offwidth:
Well that depends on what sort of climbing you're best at. I prefer balancey slabs to steep-and-strenuous, and found Hargreaves and High Neb both fine even though among my first VSs.

Apart from the classics already mentioned:

Paradise Wall would perhaps be a good one, but it's really only HS so don't be fooled into thinking they're all that easy!
If you like steep-and-strenuous then The Nose VS 4b is rather nice.
The Louisiana Rib is one of my favourites, and Narrow Buttress, though you can chicken out onto adjacent routes rather too easily.

In reply to richard turkington:

The hand traverse thing - Ellis' Eliminate?

In reply to richard turkington:
Every VS on Stanage in On Peak Rock, do the lot!!!

In reply to Offwidth:

Then when they think they have cracked VS they can go and do Balcony Buttress and Martello Buttress to see what Vdiff and HS used to be like. Upgraded now of course, and that with runners. That move at the top of Martello was a right jibber with a jammed knot 20ft below as your only runner.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Given the number of HS leads under your belt I think you are hardly normal. Hargreaves has scared quite a few prospective VS leaders with trad racks but is a doddle with loads of cams. High Neb can be frustrating to start and scary above unless you are used to grit friction moves. Paradise Wall is good, Narrow Buttress is too hard at the finish as is Luisiana Rib. The Nose is Ok for short and strenuous if you like that.

Ellis Elliminate mentioned below you is a sandbag being stiffer than many Stanage HVS lines for people breaking into VS (with low volume at grit HS) but much easier for old hands used to jamming grit breaks.

In reply to Offwidth:

It's often been said

Seriously though, things like Hargreaves, High Neb, Louisiana are relatively straightforward if you're OK with slabs - perfect for me as you can stand around gibbering for a while after each move (unlike the Nose, Ellis etc where you have to keep moving!) They were all among my early VSs and I didn't find them a huge step up from HS.

At least I didn't recommend Green Streak

In reply to Offwidth:

Not intended as a sandbag. Just memorable (exciting even).
Got the impression OP planned to do lots of VSs and therefore had some experience. You're right. It's probably not one to get started on.

In reply to sutty:

ahh Sutty: I'd like to buy you a beer and hear some more of your stories about climbing in the days before camming devices; God knows in my brief career Ive had occasion to be mightily grateful for them after frantically stuffing one (or more!) in some crack or pocket.

In reply to Li'l Zé:
Ellis Elliminate looks great.
So it's one of those "Hard VS's thats slightly easier if you can jam" routes like the file, is it?

In reply to Lizard:

Very much easier. Particularly as it's so shiny.

In reply to richard turkington: Via media is an easy but good VS on rusty wall, just right of hargreaves original route.

Also try the Green Streak at stanage end, well protected, easier crux move than high neb buttress and for some reason HVS in the old definitive guide. very nice though.

Also Central trinity is steep and well protected and fair at VS, not a dodgy soft touch job.

The Nose is a beast of a climb, steep & dodgy gear and I only seconded part of it before giving up. wee wee wee!!

I also gave up seconding Inverted V, something to do with hard partying the night before and having led lots of routes already that day.

Ah yes, Gargoyle buttress at the popular end is an easy VS (HS really) but with pleasant moves and positions.

While you're there do Manchester Buttress, one of the finest climbs on the whole cliff. I think that and Christmas crack are my favourites (both S/HS though)

In reply to MattG:
Green Streak well protected???
Where is the gear in it?

In reply to MattG:

Spot on. Apart from it being poorly protected and with harder crux moves than High Neb. And it's HVS in the new definitive guide.

In reply to MattG:

Oddly I find the Green Streak easier than Hargreaves too. You need to be careful with Gargoyle as its a great first VS to the ledge but the modern finish on the right wall is very bold and intimidating.

In reply to Graham Taylor:

Ermm there are some ok small wire placements and friend placements on it. Quite a pleasant little route..

In reply to lummox:
I liked it, good fun slab, but gear was pretty thin, mind you after the first 7ft i gave up looking for it

In reply to Graham Taylor:


Beta warning for Green Streak (which I thought they had rightly downgraded in the new definitive guide)




Common with one of the starts to The Areil, a VD, to a Friend 2 at the crux, a little bold above but not especially so for an easyish VS. I find it an easier lead than Another Turn which I think stayed at S.

In reply to Offwidth:
Its HVS in the new guide (BMC Stanage 2002) one, rockfax is more accurate with VS.

In reply to Offwidth:

Warning of reply to Beta
...





Yes, I found the friend in Ariel, but I did Green Streak first so only found it when I subsequently did Ariel. However, you have to step left to place it, which in my book counts as a side runner. Such things don't matter to me, but there are some who get quite upset at the idea

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


Reply to reply to ......




I think you might be following lines in books rather than the easiest line on the rock which is where the early climbers would have gone. This is just next to the friend...no stepping left required. Maybe thats why we have different experiences! You need to watch routes getting straightened out with time....

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
High neb IMHO has a bold ish start but the hard moves (4b) are leaving the ground whereafter it's about 3c/4a moves until protection is reached. After that it's quite a well protected route imho, and has quite alot of nut placements as well as cams. The actualy crux is well protected with one cam and two nuts at eye level and you climb to these being about foot level before getting in more gear.

that IMHO is not bold.

In reply to Offwidth:
Possibly, I just started at the bottom and went straight up! Even so, I was surprised when I subsequently checked the definitive guide and found I'd supposedly done my first HVS. It can't have been that hard and unprotected or I'd have wimped out.

In reply to Graham Taylor:

Thinking about it you must be right. I argued for Ariel and Pinion to go up to HVD and Green Streak Down to VS and Another Turn at VS 4a but was too late for the definitive guide.

In reply to Woker:

Those starting 4b moves are hard to spot! Have you done the left arete of HN (given Severe stepping in from the gully)?

In reply to Simon Caldwell: lots of food for thought there, i've done a few VS climbs but i'm harbouring a suspicion that i can't claim that grade yet because there are some nasties out there i have yet to come acrross

i'll try and give them all a go when i get a chance, i especially like the sound of high neb butress, hargreaves original, mississippi direct, the nose and elli's eliminate

any suggestions for VS routes which are sustained would be welcome, same for crack climbs, though every time the guide book mentions mentions jamming on a route i seem to avoid it, any routes where it can't be avoided?

In reply to richard turkington:


Count's Crack? Hard start - especially if you do it direct!

In reply to richard turkington:

Introductory jamming: The Real Twenty Foot Crack and Outlook Crack.

Introductory wider crack: Left Hand Tower.

Not so introductory offwidthing: Nursery Crack. Try it. You'll fail but it'll be fun.

Introductory sandbagging: opinions differ but try Flesh and Blood.

Introductory delicate boldness: Fairy Steps (not much tamed by modern gear.

Introductory strenuous boldness: The Punk.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

Count's Crack - good call. Not so introductory.

In reply to richard turkington:

Funny. Don't think anyone's recommended Wall Buttress.
Has anyone ever had a pleasant time on it?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

Fairy Steps is HS with RP's and microcams...not modern enough for you.

The Punk is safe enough but if you make it too safe you will probably pump out.

The rest I'd agree with as a group of testing climbs. Y crack would be a good addition for a real traditional experience with either finish (one is pretty much as bad as the other)

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1: cheers, where are Flesh and Blood and The Real Twenty Foot Crack, can't see them in my guide (east peak grit)

also, what does sandbagging mean, climbs which are easy for the grade?

In reply to richard turkington:


Exactly the opposite.

In reply to richard turkington:
Maybe John means 20-foot crack at Burbage North, Chant Area

In reply to richard turkington:

The real 20 foot crack is well worth a visit and is on the far right of Stanage near Hamper's Hang its not really a sandbag as if you can jam its quite OK. Flesh and Blood is in the middle of nowhere on the far left and not worth it (there are better sandbags closer to civilisation).

In reply to johncoxmysteriously1:

The Punk is my favourite esoteric(ish) VS on Stanage.

All the above are reasonable suggestions. A good graduation ceremony would be Fern Crack at the Plantation.

In reply to alsmith:

Forgotten about that one. Definitely not 'introductory'!

In reply to Offwidth: thanks again everyone, gives me plenty to be getting along with

does anyone fancy climbing at stanage on any of the weekends in June, apart from this one coming up.

i'm off over to the peaks tomorrow to do a bit of bouldering and i'll be there until sat morning if anyone wants to meet up before hand

In reply to Li'l Zé:

Fern Crack and Wall Buttress are great testers as were Symbiosis and Cleft wing before the upgrades. The mother of all sandbags used to be Little Things (VS just to look at it) which is now a sandbag for the HVS climber.

In reply to richard turkington:

I think Stanage has over 300 VS climbs including the new routes and variations there are plenty to go at.

PS watch mentioning "peaks" and even saying bouldering on a Stanage VS thread is risky

In reply to Offwidth: what's wrong with saying peaks?

as for bouldering, the theory is that it will improve my leading, i've never really done any bouldering outside before, though i did find it fairly enjoyable down at the wall, my t-shirt remained on at all times

In reply to richard turkington:
And another - Wall End Slab. Long(ish), not technically hard above the start but can be a bit intimidating. Lovely route.
SteveC

Weekends - maybe! I tend to climb a bit harder than this, but I enjoy doing the classics and haven't been too successful on the hard routes of late.

In reply to SteveC: i've seconded up a few HVSs and a couple of E1s (kirkus corner and goodbye toulouse, though the rope may have taken a bit of my weight on the crux, i can't cleary recall the moment, i was too busy trying to get on the ledge with a heel hook! great climb)

i'd love to second up a few HVSs and E1s if you're prepared to be a bit patient.