UKC

Yes he did it Today.

He was tying it ground up but did not want to do the top move.He then top roped it a few times the did it. He was doing the first move (crux)every time and making it look 6a and not 7a.He said it was 8a+ to get standing on the arete

Well done . . he did it in front of ben and jerry,ron fawcet was there and alan williams plus a few others mmm a very good show malcom.

He then went on to do the joker on his 6th go. and nearly doing ace in a few goes! this man is unstoppable. . streaks ahead!

In reply to justin: baddabing, baddaboom. surely there cant be controversy over the validity of this ascent, proving that it most definitely is do-able, even if you have to be a mutant.

In reply to justin:

Second ascent, eh?

M

In reply to justin: and don't forget it was an even better effort by Ron doing the first ascent all those years ago...good effort Malcolm but full respect to Ron...

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:

Yes it is the second ascent even though jon dunne claims to have done it,Ron himself does not think JD did it and every one there today ie ben jerry ect recons it to be the second!

In reply to justin:

Second ascent is the concensus then.

Nice one Smith - about freakin time, you can't be an underachiever forever. Now get you finger out and do something really hard.

M

In reply to justin:

firstly,

what a superb effort by malc

secondly,

if any of you can categorically say, without an ounce of doubt, that john didn't bag the second ascent, fine.

otherwise its the third ascent.

just because ben and jerry say so, doesn't mean they know for sure and they're bound to say smith's was the second ascent, they're all best mates.

laterzz

m@

In reply to Anonymous: mart was with them today. email him at martinveale@hotmail.com if youve got any queries.

In reply to M@:


Oh so JD's claiming the second. I'm afraid with the cloud of doubt hanging over JD's head (RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY) the burden of proof is with John. He should have learnt his lesson a long time a go and that cloud would have dissipated. And I'm afraid the word of his henchmen (supportdudes): Jack and that little photographer guy who likes to hide in shadows: is NOT good enough.....despite what they may print in the magazines (don't forget the mags don't want to piss off JD's sponsors as they'll loose revenue)



Ben and Jerry aren't the only ones casting doubt on JD's claims. Good point though about the Ice Cream twins being friends of Smiths - but the same can be said of JD's supportdudes.

M

In reply to justin:

Malcolm, he be strong like bull, but ron did this in '87. he da man!!

MickRyan - "and that little photographer guy who likes to hide in shadows"

He hides in the shadows cos he was killed in the alps some years ago. What a spineless comment Mick. Just cos you're over the pond where John Dunne can't get you dosen't mean you can say thing like that.

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:

And why do people cast doubt on JD's claim...???

i'll tell u why......

cos they cant f*cking do it themselves......jealousy is the answer........

In reply to Dave:

WRONG - I was on about Simmonite.

M

In reply to PaulJ:

WRONG - Plain and simple. But I doubt that you will understand that.

It's about truth and honesty when it comes to reporting first ascents and repeats. Nothing to do with ability.

Maybe JD did do CT second, maybe he didn't. But with the cloud of doubt we will never know for sure. And that is a crying shame.

M

In reply to justin: In the end, Malcolm said it was Font 8a to get stood up on the arete, and scary 7b+/c to top out.

This was a truly awesome effort on perhaps the most staggeringly photogenic line in UK. Just as he was adjusting into the final flake, his left foot ripped and for a moment I thought he was off. Of course being Malc, he just flexed his way out of this sketchy scene and made it to the top.

I've seen some things in my time, but this really stopped everyone in their tracks. Big Ron was there to see it, and he was so made up.

So, highball V11/ 8a then. Not bad for his 9th day on, eh?
Oh yeah, and he did The Joker Jerry's way, so I guess the Ace will fall next.

Final thought: why hasn't anybody done the flake system right of CT into NTBTA? Seems kind of obvious to me, assuming you're a bit of a mutant.

Cheers, Simon.

In reply to Dave whinned:
"Just cos you're over the pond where John Dunne can't get you dosen't mean you can say thing like that."

What kind of lame ass comment is that. Why the hell would JD want get me for. I'm one of his most fervant supporters.

And anyway John isn't a violent man. He's a peace loving citizen full of integrity, honesty, good words, humour - and don't forget that micro-weaner or I'll kick your puny little ass on behalf of the exhalted one.

And I'll get in anyone's face *live* and take whatever reality presents. ...as I've always done.

See ya punk ass...and if you're in Bishop pop in and see me. I'll be happy to accomodate you.

M

In reply to justin:
Don't care what ascent it was it's a damn good effort. OH and if John said he did it I believe him.

In reply to Billy the Kid:

That's good Billy. It means that the cloud of doubt hasn't spread over everyones head.

m

In reply to justin:

Class effort. I've always maintained CT was pretty much the hardest prob in the Peak, if you only base your view on repeats.

Anyone know how Ron reacted to seeing his problem knocked off?

In reply to justin:

Anyone got any pics of the route / ascent?

In reply to tommytwotone:

Ron was probably thinking "ha! I did that 14 years ago, you young whippersnapper!".

Although, probably not, as Ron is just about one of the most ego-free climbers about.

In reply to brendonTendon:

Ron is a top bloke, always happy to talk and give advice to people. well ahead of his time aswell back in the 80's!

How many of his routes have not had a second ascent??

In reply to brendonTendon:

Agreed. I bumped into him in Font one year, which was quite surreal.

Definately something to bear in mind, considering how relatively primative bouldering was when CT got its FA.

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA: I remember John saying he got quite pissed off when people started to descredit his ascents after his photographer mate got killed and thus couldn't back him up. What you wrote seemed to me to be a comment in this style, thus morbidly distasteful (Anyway i would hardly say Simmonite hides in the shadows).

Aaaah bite me.

In reply to tommytwotone: I believe that Ron F was belaying Malcy S many a moon ago when Smith did Hubble, so it seems Ron is Malcom's lucky charm.

In reply to justin:

the way things are going at the mo I'm presuming (hoping really) that someone had a video camera rolling.

They could make it part one of F*ckin' Hard Grit!

In reply to tommytwotone:


Bouldering was primitive? Eh? Try telling that to Syrett, Manson, Peel, Fawcett etc - please would people stop trying to pretend that bouldering has just been invented - it's the silly hats you're thinking of, not the activity.

In reply to andy: i wonder if Ron tried it on top-rope when he did it, or if he did it ground-up, pre-mats??

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
Hey Bishop Basher! You know as well as anybody that more dodgy shennanigans went on in the 80's than ever.
Who witnessed Rons ascent?

Enty

In reply to andy:

I'm not trying to belittle the events of those, I was trying to make a point along the lines of Dave's. Sorry for misunderstanding.

In reply to tommytwotone: Cheers - it's just that there have been several occasions on here that others have talked as if bouldering was 'invented' by Ben and Jerry in 1997 or something.

And I'm an irritable old git.

In reply to andy:

I don't believe Smith did it.
I don't believe Fawcett did either.
In fact, I believe JD's was the FA.

In reply to big spoon:
FA? Fattest Ass? Damn keyboard gfzrjib! Fittest Ass, sorry.

In reply to tommytwotone: The only person happier than Malcolm Smith was Ron himself. Ron was the first to congratulate him & had the biggest grin of all of us awestruck onlookers but then he is such a presence. He even ran in to spot as MS's foot skated off up near the top crux. Ray Wood & Jerry Moffat shot a load of film on the ascent so I guess they'll be out in the mags soon. They even got some of Ron & Malc together at the base of CT. Personally I have never witnessed such a feat of absolute commitment & technical ability coupled with a controlled power beyond imagination. He did the start several times for pictures while Jerry was just shaking his head, muttering "He's so f***ing strong. He can do 8a+ moves straight off again & again." Credit where it's due & believe me it's due. It was an incredible moment & truly inspiring.

Did you all touch dicks afterwards ?

In reply to justin: it will be interesting to see what the mags put down, 2nd or 3rd ascent. I believe john dunne got the 2nd ascent, and i cant really see how just because the ppl from sheffield say he didnt it can be discounted. After just hearing one of his lectures i think this man gets far too much hassle because he has a differene of opinion with the sheffield lot.

In reply to Ps: What is it thatthe Sheffield crowd have against Dunne, what's he done to offend them so much?

In reply to ice: 3 things:
1 be fat
2 be from Yorkshire
3 burn them off

In reply to Az: i spoke to him at the roaches last weekend and i wouldnot say he is fat and i certainly would not say it to his face,he looks a tough 'un

In reply to Ps: "i cant really see how just because the ppl from sheffield say he didnt it can be discounted"

well quite Ps, you're right of course, but not all people from sheff say he didn't do it! one of the key people there the other day mentioned that malcom's was the third ascent.

some people are against dunney because some people will have a go at anyone more successful than they are.....it's the same boring old cliche.....vitriol fuelled by jealousy. john dunne is a fantastically talented but regular down to earth bloke who is stunningly witty (he captivated me in an instant . however any exceptionally talented person comes in for stick - jerry and johnny are two other prime examples - it's just a fact of life and im sure john is a big enough man, (in the metaphorical sense of the word) to rise above it. and no, he's not fat. he's f*&king gorgeous actually

In reply to Removed User:
Actually sorry Jude this isn't really in reply to you as I pressed the wrong button, but anyway bit fed up of the constant debates about being "hard" on John Dunne. Don't get all misty eyed out in internet land John loves the fact that everyone is talking about him, on several occasions he has confessed that he goes out to get controversy. Because controversy = magazine interest = raised profile for his sponsors. He is a professional climber and very good at his job.

As for the idea that he has burnt everyone off, well thats the point, he used to at Malham as a young lad but now in his dotage/prime it suits him better to be heard about but not seen doing the business. Burning the opposition/mates off is exactly what Malcolm did on CT climbing something the onlookers (Ben & Jerry but obviously not Ron) couldn't do. If John did his next E10 on a busy day infront of the countries finest then the discussions would be over.

I am not saying whether John climbed his stuff or not as there are only a handful of people who really know the answer and then there are the rest of us who can just decide whether we like the bloke or not and speculate. But if someone said that I hadn't climbed the last handful of my major ascents then after first resisting a little physical persuassion I'd take them out and show just how crap/good I was.

In reply to Ian P: One just gets the impression that there's a very sheffield centred peak lot who don't much like outsiders efforts, and feel that grit is their personal game. Frankly this is a kind of foolish attitude to take especially in a sport like climbing.

In reply to ice: saw JD soloing at Ilkley a few years back in trainers and jeans. He was awesome, relaxed and down to earth. Sheffield sometimes forget that there's grit to the North of them.

In reply to Removed User:


Mental note to self from Jude (and this a general life principal and nothing to do with JD).

People who are "successful, fantastically talented, down to earth blokes, who are witty, and f*cking gorgeous - let's add charming as well"

.......always tell the truth and are honest at all times.

Perhaps someone should inform MI5, the CIA, and the FBI. I'm sure this pearl of wisdom will save them a lot of work.

Come on Jude - you've got more life experience than that surely.

M

In reply to ice: I think what upset them was his ascent of Parthian Shot after a certain person said it wasnt climbable. And he's not fat, at the lecture he looked bloody strong not fat.

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:

oh dear, Mickie Rockfax mouse is running low on humour reserves.

Ahh, Did Panton wear you out?

poor little Mickie.....

Perhaps you should have a rest day.

g

In reply to justin:
With regard to the John Dunne argument, no one saw big Ron do it but his ascent is not questioned, so why question Johns.

In reply to justin:
Interesting point. If its claimed to be font 8a/8a+ to get onto the arete and then 7b/7b+ highball top-out, then in the V grading system this would almost certainly get V13 i.e. font 8b. Umm Ron did this 14 years ago, the man is clearly awesome; todays standards included.

In reply to Billy the Kid: Billy the answer to this question is obvious and been stated above (in this thread) several times. It may be that Ron didn't climb it, and John did (thereby making Mr Dunne the first ascensionist!!)
But the issue is that people trust and respect Ron and not John Dunne. Ron might have the odd doubt or naughty move in his career but Dunne(y) has a whole catalogue, in fact almost every major ascent during the late 90s early 21stC.

For those that think its a sheffield thing, well of course there's tribalism, but I've heard doubts voiced by people around the country. Often by people like all the posters on this thread (myself included) who have no idea about the real answer but also by some of the major players, photographers and belayers!

I find myself raising more doubt on John by innuendo here, which isn't what I want to do. I just wanted to cut through a bit of the soggy mushy thinking on this thread and surrounding this issue. Lets face it John's doing better financially than almost any other Brit climber out of his "controversial" character so I expect if he did climb all these things he's pretty happy and if he didn't then he;'s got to sleep with himself at night.

In reply to Billy the Kid:

I was wondering this earlier - 8a+ 14 years ago. Anyone know who's generally credited with doing the first font 8a+, and when was it? Don't think there were many problems that hard around then......or were there??

In reply to brendonTendon: "walk on by" was 1980 that must have been streets ahead at the time

In reply to brendonTendon: check out the article at cragx.com....some American guy did an 8b in 1975...apparently unrepeated despite many attempts by others...

In reply to Ian P:
I'll cut through the soggy mushy stuff!
Your the biggest prick i've ever heard on Rocktalk.
John did prove how good he is by top roping Partheon Shot whilst 2 stone overweight on video.

Enty

In reply to Enty: Enty, i think Ian P was attempting to be the impartial onlooker. anyway, he's not the biggest prick on RT. the biggest (male) prick (prob not in real life though judging by his bitterness is Mick R as he proves with every post

however i agree with your sentiments. the anti-dunne brigade are pathetic.

In reply to Enty:
"Your the biggest prick i've ever heard on Rocktalk."
Happy Christmas Enty and good well to all men especially the well endowed!

If you care to reread my post you will realise I was suggesting that people shouldn't feel sorry for JD, and that his world out doubt is self created. It was not about qurestioning whether he did or didn't climb his ascents.

Come on did that video really do it for you!! If so then you prove my point about soggy thinking.

In reply to justin: I've met John Dunne a few times in passing and once for a few hours and he came across as a genuine person who loved controversy and doesn't really care what other people think. When people doubt his ascents, he seemed to be more concerned with what this said about the guy who belayed him and vouched for him rather than the effect it had on his image.

Good effort by Malcolm, but even better by Ron.

In reply to Jonathan T: "When people doubt his ascents, he seemed to be more concerned with what this said about the guy who belayed him and vouched for him rather than the effect it had on his image."

quite. these were his genuine concerns when we met him. well said jonathan.

In reply to Removed User:

Jude - what's that maxim of yours "the pen is mightier than the sword"? You really are going to have to raise your skill levels above that of school yard chatter and Hello magazine type gossip. I've your best interests at heart.

A little pressie for you Jude. A friend of mine, Jim Herrington, who does similar photography to you. Real rock stars (country and western) and rock rock stars.

http://www.altpick.com/members.php?id=10520

Merry Christmas

Mick

In reply to justin:

Did JD actually claim to have done CT? I've asked this before. I thought he only ever claimed to have top-roped it.