UKC

what's the difference between twin ropes and half ropes which means you have to clip both twin ropes into the same pro but have to alternate with half ropes ?

In reply to stonewall:

Half-ropes don't have to be alternated, but it is useful - because of rope-drag on a winding route - to be able to do this.

Twin-ropes only work in a pair and have to be clipped through the same pro. Because they aren't as strong as half-ropes.

The John Long book "Learn to Rock Climb" suggests that twinropes may even be clipped through different quickdraws attached to the same bit of gear - but when I pointed this out several months ago, it didn't seems that that happens in practice.

In reply to stonewall:

Go to Beal-Planet.com: Full explanation (the one above ain't great, sorry bud) and I can't be arsed to write it all out.

In reply to Dominion:
Half ropes can either be clipped in to seperate quickdraws (potentially of one bit of gear if you must but unliekly in practice) or the same quickdraws the whole way up (identically to twin ropes_

Twin ropes must be cliped in to the same quickdraws the whole way up. If your sure your fact from the book is correct in that twins don't have to be clipped in the same draw, which I doubt some what, then the quickdraws would have to be the same length at every point you did this and going to the same piece of gear also.

Pretty much the only reason you'd clip two ropes in to seperate quickdraws going to one piece of gear is if the gear was bomber and you were using half ropes and that you weren't intending on using them cliped like twin ropes, and if there was no other gear to clip in the vacinity. In practice though most people would just clip one rope or the other.

In reply to Woker:

thanks- the reason I asked is because we are going to the ecrins next week to climb bolted routes with half ropes and in the pics Ive seen in the guide book people are clipping both (presumably twin) ropes through the same snap link.

In reply to stonewall:
Whenever I've climbed bolted routes with half ropes we've clipped alternately just as you would on trad. Gets some funny looks occasionally though

In reply to Woker:

Found this from John Long's How To Rock Climb (Third Edition)

"Another technique involves leading on two 8.8mm ropes, using them as one rope, clipping both lines into the protection, though through separate biners. Aside from reducing the chance of total rope failure through cutting over an edge, there seems little else to recommend using twin ropes."

The only reason I can think for doing this would be to have reversed gates on the karabiners there would be less chance of rope drag (or another factor) opening both gates, so maybe that's why he's suggesting it?

(And karabiners, not quickdraws - oops - although if both ropes are clipped through both quickdraws it would be similar?)

and further down

"Twin rope technique, and using 8.8mm ropes as double ropes, are as yet unestablished in America and are used only by experts in specialized situations. Time will render the verdict. For the novice, it's best to stick with the older, less complicated methods."

I'll make sure I check, rather than rely on remembering something I read 8 months ago . . . sorry

In reply to stonewall:

Twin ropes are both clipped to all pro and effectively work as one rope. But since there are two ropes there is less chance of finding yourself in a bad situation if your ropes load over a sharp edge. Also, they allow you to do full length abseils, a godsend on long abs.

Half ropes clip to pro one at a time allowing the reduction in rope drag and all the benefits of having two ropes noted above. They are heavier than twins though.

However ... You shouldn't clip both half ropes into one piece of pro if leading on trad protection because if you were to fall then the ropes would not elongate as much as they should (since there are two to absorb the fall), slowing you down too quickly, causing a higher impact force on your gear and on you. This could rip the gear or cripple you if it's a nasty fall.

Hope that helps

Jono

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

(In reply to stonewall)

Ignore the funny looks. It's a great way of reducing the length of a fall, when you miss that crucial clip with all that slack out.

Steff

In reply to Dominion:
yes strange comments, the fact that they are not used much in americe may explain the advice on clipping twins in to seperate biners, now don't get me wrong I don't climb with twins but as far as I know over here we tend to clip both in to one biner.

In reply to Jono not logged in:
still i can show you some picutres in some well known guide books with rock jocks leading high in the E's with some pro clipped alternate ropes and then one piece clipped with both ropes through one biner.

At the end of the day there are only best practices in climbing, unless it's a black and white answer, which are rare when sensible questions are asked.