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Yesterday Adam Ondra, the fifteen year old wonderkid from Brno in the Czech Republic, made the long awaited second ascent of Alexander Huber's 1996 route Open Air at Austria's Schleier Wasserfall. ...... he thought the route 9a+.
There have been various claims for the world's first 9a+ sport route, Orujo, Realization and the Rambla Extension, but if the grade sticks this could be the world's first.
Kevin Avery reports at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=11&year=2008#n45454
There have been various claims for the world's first 9a+ sport route, Orujo, Realization and the Rambla Extension, but if the grade sticks this could be the world's first.
Kevin Avery reports at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=11&year=2008#n45454
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
It's worth noting that Ondra has also done La Rambla 9a+ and a whole slew of 9a's and 8c+'s.
He is one of the few, because of his experience and track record, who can safely judge and compare the difficulty and hence the grades of the hardest sport routes.
In short, he ain't bullshitting. He has the experience.
Also Huber established Om in 1992 (Triangel, Aus) - perhaps the second 9a after Action Directe....although given 8c+ by Huber, and Action Directe was given 8c+/9a by Gullich.
It's worth noting that Ondra has also done La Rambla 9a+ and a whole slew of 9a's and 8c+'s.
He is one of the few, because of his experience and track record, who can safely judge and compare the difficulty and hence the grades of the hardest sport routes.
In short, he ain't bullshitting. He has the experience.
Also Huber established Om in 1992 (Triangel, Aus) - perhaps the second 9a after Action Directe....although given 8c+ by Huber, and Action Directe was given 8c+/9a by Gullich.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Nice one, he's clearly hugely talented and hard-working, looking at what he has already acheved it's exciting (almost depressing :P )to think of what he could potentially achieve in years to come.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
How scary is that?! Excellent performance though.
>
> "...the fifteen year old wonderkid"
> "...the fifteen year old wonderkid"
> "He has the experience."
How scary is that?! Excellent performance though.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Wow - I wish I had 1/100th of his talent.
Is Hr Huber tied in in that photo? If not, why not?
Will Pn Ondra's phenomenal performance actually get worse as he grows (power:weight could decline)?
But mostly "wow".
J
Wow - I wish I had 1/100th of his talent.
Is Hr Huber tied in in that photo? If not, why not?
Will Pn Ondra's phenomenal performance actually get worse as he grows (power:weight could decline)?
But mostly "wow".
J
In reply to Moacs:
Some people say he'll hit a growth spurt and he'll pack on muscle. I guess it could be beneficial or detrimental to his performance.
And in reply to OP:
WOW!
Some people say he'll hit a growth spurt and he'll pack on muscle. I guess it could be beneficial or detrimental to his performance.
And in reply to OP:
WOW!
Rather talented this Ondra lad, no?
In reply to Henry Loveless:
From Björn of 8a.nu prior to the repeat of Open Air... http://8a.nu/
I asked Adam a couple of weeks ago, which were the hardest routes he had climbed and tried, and also which route he thought was the hardest on the planet:
"Well, I think I have 4 routes, which are more or less the same hard - La Rambla, Action Directe, Weisse Rose and PuntX... The hardest I have tried might have been probably Open Air, but I tried just the moves, not the whole thing together. When I do so, I will be allowed to tell you comparison among others. I hope the weather will stay... I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... Definitely! If you bare in mind the time spent on the route and so on...0"
From Björn of 8a.nu prior to the repeat of Open Air... http://8a.nu/
I asked Adam a couple of weeks ago, which were the hardest routes he had climbed and tried, and also which route he thought was the hardest on the planet:
"Well, I think I have 4 routes, which are more or less the same hard - La Rambla, Action Directe, Weisse Rose and PuntX... The hardest I have tried might have been probably Open Air, but I tried just the moves, not the whole thing together. When I do so, I will be allowed to tell you comparison among others. I hope the weather will stay... I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... Definitely! If you bare in mind the time spent on the route and so on...0"
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
yeah the old growth spurt had hit loads of climbers hard, Malcolm smith Ben Moon Tyler Landman Daniel Woods Paul Robinson are just a few who were strong young but now cant climb for shit shame so much early promise wasted by the growth of biceps
yeah the old growth spurt had hit loads of climbers hard, Malcolm smith Ben Moon Tyler Landman Daniel Woods Paul Robinson are just a few who were strong young but now cant climb for shit shame so much early promise wasted by the growth of biceps
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Seriously impressive stuff - must be (have been!) one of the biggest unrepeated ticks around. Looking at his 8a.bu profile it looks like he also managed to fit in onsights of an 8a+ and 8b on the same day as repointing Open Air!!
Seriously impressive stuff - must be (have been!) one of the biggest unrepeated ticks around. Looking at his 8a.bu profile it looks like he also managed to fit in onsights of an 8a+ and 8b on the same day as repointing Open Air!!
In reply to Ian Patterson:
Did you read the news report Ian?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=11&year=2008#n45454
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Seriously impressive stuff - must be (have been!) one of the biggest unrepeated ticks around. Looking at his 8a.bu profile it looks like he also managed to fit in onsights of an 8a+ and 8b on the same day as repointing Open Air!!
>
> Seriously impressive stuff - must be (have been!) one of the biggest unrepeated ticks around. Looking at his 8a.bu profile it looks like he also managed to fit in onsights of an 8a+ and 8b on the same day as repointing Open Air!!
Did you read the news report Ian?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=11&year=2008#n45454
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
"He is one of the few, because of his experience and track record, who can safely judge and compare the difficulty and hence the grades of the hardest sport routes.
In short, he ain't bullshitting. He has the experience."
Whereas I agree that he is well placed to make a fair comparison between different cutting edge projects, I think that you still need to take his assesment with a pinch of salt.:
Firstly, I assume that routes are graded for 'average' climbers (at this standard)- adults. As a youth Adam will find some things easier and some harder than the 'average' climber will.
Secondly, as a 15 year old comments like the one below will not help establish a record for objectivity:
"I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... "
"He is one of the few, because of his experience and track record, who can safely judge and compare the difficulty and hence the grades of the hardest sport routes.
In short, he ain't bullshitting. He has the experience."
Whereas I agree that he is well placed to make a fair comparison between different cutting edge projects, I think that you still need to take his assesment with a pinch of salt.:
Firstly, I assume that routes are graded for 'average' climbers (at this standard)- adults. As a youth Adam will find some things easier and some harder than the 'average' climber will.
Secondly, as a 15 year old comments like the one below will not help establish a record for objectivity:
"I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... "
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Obviously missed that bit. BTW the fact that you felt you had to point it out yourself does look a bit needy
> (In reply to Ian Patterson)
> [...]
>
> Did you read the news report Ian?
>
> [...]
>
> Did you read the news report Ian?
>
Obviously missed that bit. BTW the fact that you felt you had to point it out yourself does look a bit needy
In reply to Ian Patterson:
exactly
In reply to GrahamD:
You come over a little harsh in your assesment imo. The first comment smacks of the suprisingly common 'he's all skin and bones so it's easy for him attitude'. As to his judgement of Jumbo Love I just read it as the view that Chris Sharma, with his ticklist of new ascents and repeats all round the world, is better placed than anyone to judge the hardest route in the world.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
>
> > Whereas I agree that he is well placed to make a fair comparison between different cutting edge projects, I think that you still need to take his assesment with a pinch of salt.:
>
> Firstly, I assume that routes are graded for 'average' climbers (at this standard)- adults. As a youth Adam will find some things easier and some harder than the 'average' climber will.
>
> Secondly, as a 15 year old comments like the one below will not help establish a record for objectivity:
>
>
> "I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... "
>
>
> > Whereas I agree that he is well placed to make a fair comparison between different cutting edge projects, I think that you still need to take his assesment with a pinch of salt.:
>
> Firstly, I assume that routes are graded for 'average' climbers (at this standard)- adults. As a youth Adam will find some things easier and some harder than the 'average' climber will.
>
> Secondly, as a 15 year old comments like the one below will not help establish a record for objectivity:
>
>
> "I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... "
You come over a little harsh in your assesment imo. The first comment smacks of the suprisingly common 'he's all skin and bones so it's easy for him attitude'. As to his judgement of Jumbo Love I just read it as the view that Chris Sharma, with his ticklist of new ascents and repeats all round the world, is better placed than anyone to judge the hardest route in the world.
This kid is amazing, only 15 years old!
He's gonna put the climbing to the next level!
He's gonna put the climbing to the next level!
In reply to Ian Patterson:
You're right, it didn't quite read the way I meant it to. It isn't supposed to be harsh - just objective.
I don't think I implied 'he's all skin and bones so it's easy for him attitude', did I ? what I meant was that he will find some climbs easier than a fully developed adult and some things will be harder - from that perspective he does not shine quite the same light on a route as others will.
As for Jumbo Love - who is actually claiming the hardest in the world - is Sharma ? in any case Adam hasn't been on this or Akira or Chilam (as far as I know)so proposing Jumbo Love as 'the hardest' is a bold statement to make.
Anyway, concensus is starting to be established on what constitutes 9a and 9a+ - which is impressive.
You're right, it didn't quite read the way I meant it to. It isn't supposed to be harsh - just objective.
I don't think I implied 'he's all skin and bones so it's easy for him attitude', did I ? what I meant was that he will find some climbs easier than a fully developed adult and some things will be harder - from that perspective he does not shine quite the same light on a route as others will.
As for Jumbo Love - who is actually claiming the hardest in the world - is Sharma ? in any case Adam hasn't been on this or Akira or Chilam (as far as I know)so proposing Jumbo Love as 'the hardest' is a bold statement to make.
Anyway, concensus is starting to be established on what constitutes 9a and 9a+ - which is impressive.
In reply to GrahamD:
Always. But in Ondra's case a very small pinch of salt.
Some assumption Graham. I have visions of a grading committee assigning a grade to a route just for an average male, 63 kg, 1.8 m tall with an ape index of 10cm's. Nope it just don't work like that.
Lost in translation perhaps - and youthful enthusiasm tempered by experience and he has lots of it.
I wonder why he said that. Perhaps it has something to do with Chris Sharma's reputation and tally of cutting edge routes. He's no flash in the pan or one route wonder.
As Huber said and he might know something about climbing:
"What I find curious is that still today most magazines, without hesitating, place Jumbo Love together with Akira and Chilam Balam. Had 9b been climbed in 1995, more than a decade ago therefore, then Chris Sharma's performance seems like a kindergarten!"
Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
>
> "He is one of the few, because of his experience and track record, who can safely judge and compare the difficulty and hence the grades of the hardest sport routes.
>
> In short, he ain't bullshitting. He has the experience."
>
> Whereas I agree that he is well placed to make a fair comparison between different cutting edge projects, I think that you still need to take his assesment with a pinch of salt.:
>
>
> "He is one of the few, because of his experience and track record, who can safely judge and compare the difficulty and hence the grades of the hardest sport routes.
>
> In short, he ain't bullshitting. He has the experience."
>
> Whereas I agree that he is well placed to make a fair comparison between different cutting edge projects, I think that you still need to take his assesment with a pinch of salt.:
Always. But in Ondra's case a very small pinch of salt.
> Firstly, I assume that routes are graded for 'average' climbers (at this standard)- adults.
Some assumption Graham. I have visions of a grading committee assigning a grade to a route just for an average male, 63 kg, 1.8 m tall with an ape index of 10cm's. Nope it just don't work like that.
> Secondly, as a 15 year old comments like the one below will not help establish a record for objectivity:
Lost in translation perhaps - and youthful enthusiasm tempered by experience and he has lots of it.
> "I did not try many more hard routes, but for me Jumbo Love is the hardest route on the world at the moment however I did not try it... "
I wonder why he said that. Perhaps it has something to do with Chris Sharma's reputation and tally of cutting edge routes. He's no flash in the pan or one route wonder.
As Huber said and he might know something about climbing:
"What I find curious is that still today most magazines, without hesitating, place Jumbo Love together with Akira and Chilam Balam. Had 9b been climbed in 1995, more than a decade ago therefore, then Chris Sharma's performance seems like a kindergarten!"
> in any case Adam hasn't been on this or Akira or Chilam (as far as I know)so proposing Jumbo Love as 'the hardest' is a bold
Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
In reply to GrahamD:what I meant was that he will find some climbs easier than a fully developed adult and some things will be harder
Incidentally I gather his coach says that Ondra's time is now to do hard routes because he is going to be very tall. It occured to me that he might just be saying that to motivate him more.
Incidentally I gather his coach says that Ondra's time is now to do hard routes because he is going to be very tall. It occured to me that he might just be saying that to motivate him more.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
A route nevertheless ?
Isn't this thread about dealing with objective assesment based on repeat ascents , not the machinations of some nebulous group of 'top climbers' ?(sounds akin to certain ascents being 'discredited' by the Sheffield mafia in the past.
>
> Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
> Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
A route nevertheless ?
>
> Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
> Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
Isn't this thread about dealing with objective assesment based on repeat ascents , not the machinations of some nebulous group of 'top climbers' ?(sounds akin to certain ascents being 'discredited' by the Sheffield mafia in the past.
In reply to GrahamD:
The question is not about repeat ascents of Chilam Balam but whether it has been climbed at all.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> Isn't this thread about dealing with objective assesment based on repeat ascents , not the machinations of some nebulous group of 'top climbers' ?(sounds akin to certain ascents being 'discredited' by the Sheffield mafia in the past.
The question is not about repeat ascents of Chilam Balam but whether it has been climbed at all.
In reply to JTatts:
I take it that people accept that Akira has been climbed now ? that was in a similar state of doubt a while back.
I take it that people accept that Akira has been climbed now ? that was in a similar state of doubt a while back.
why shouldn´t he have done chilum bilam???
because some ppl who turn up for a few days to have a look at it can´t get it done???
so its seems inconceivable that a guy who lives just down the road and has spent five years working up to the moment he could achieve it has actually done.
and now its ok for everyone to throw mud at the guy without any evidence.
because some ppl who turn up for a few days to have a look at it can´t get it done???
so its seems inconceivable that a guy who lives just down the road and has spent five years working up to the moment he could achieve it has actually done.
and now its ok for everyone to throw mud at the guy without any evidence.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
not by sharma. he spoke about his attempts on the route in swansea on his lecture tour earlier this year. he said it "probably is 9b+" and also admitted that it could well have been climbed by bernabe.
> Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
not by sharma. he spoke about his attempts on the route in swansea on his lecture tour earlier this year. he said it "probably is 9b+" and also admitted that it could well have been climbed by bernabe.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
What's one of those?
>
> Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
>
> Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
>
What's one of those?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: there is no proof or even belief of chilam being climbed by most is there
In reply to mr.sheen: Didn't Chris Sharma also said that Open Air is maybe much harder and/or holds must have been broken and couldn't do it (source 8a.nu: When talking to Chris Sharma this summer, he said, after trying it briefly, that he thought that some hold must have broken since the FA.). Maybe he was just not clever enough to find a sequence or too weak???
Adam has proofed it is indeed possible!
Maybe it's the same with Chilam Bilam?
Adam has proofed it is indeed possible!
Maybe it's the same with Chilam Bilam?
In reply to Waldmeister: Chris never said he couldn't do it. What he said was that he had tried it briefly, wasn't really attracted by it, and that he thought at least one hold must have broken because he couldn't even imagine a sequence to get through one section of the route. My guess is that this had a lot to do with the fact that he tried it in the summer, when conditions were far from ideal. Adam also says there a huge difference now compared to when he tried it in the summer.
About Chilam Balam, I don't know the whole story, but it has something to do with Barnabé saying he found his belayer in a bar and doesn't know his name...
About Chilam Balam, I don't know the whole story, but it has something to do with Barnabé saying he found his belayer in a bar and doesn't know his name...
In reply to Bjorn: But here you eyactly see how rumours come to life: If he is not able to imagine a sequence, he just comments that a hold must have been broken! The same happened to F. Rouhling with his Akira!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Akira is this as long surely as Action directe?Was it not climbed pre bouldering mats with a rope in the last few metres?
CB-refer to dani andradas blog-list of hardest rts in the world-CB comes top i believe-1st ascentionist-Bernabe Fernandez is listed.
> (In reply to GrahamD)
> [...]
>
>> [...]
>
> Get up to speed: Akira - is a boulder route.
>
> Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
>
> Chilam, discredited ascent by many of the top climbers.
Akira is this as long surely as Action directe?Was it not climbed pre bouldering mats with a rope in the last few metres?
CB-refer to dani andradas blog-list of hardest rts in the world-CB comes top i believe-1st ascentionist-Bernabe Fernandez is listed.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Pictures and an interview with Adam are now live at Planetmountain.com
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=36...
Pictures and an interview with Adam are now live at Planetmountain.com
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=36...
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