In reply to Joe Kerr:
> My point is if you had read my post on this and the other thread was that Andy was hypothesising rather than getting off his arse and proving his point!
He was making a point, which has since (for the time being at least) been proved to be correct. The route has been graded, by someone with a lot more experience at that level, as E8.
> In the end Franco wasn't too far off the mark even though the route was proven to be over graded slightly by someone who is well qualified to judge.
And that is exactly the point Andy was making.
> Andy would have been better to go and try the route and then pass judgement rather than speculate.
Perhaps so, but he's perfectly entitled to express his opinion. This is climbing forum intended for climbing-related discussion after all.
> E8 7a is still bloody hard by anyone's standards.
Agreed, and I'd not take anything away from Franco, as I said in my comment on the other thread.
In reply to Wee Davie:
Just because Franco didn't see the possibility of a specialist placement
(and what placement isn't 'specialist'?), that doesn't bump up the real grade of the route.
In reply to Franco & John Arran:
I think your suggestions for H-grades are well made for routes at this level.