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NEWS: Birkett's Up At Cam Crag, Wasdale again!

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 Michael Ryan 12 Jul 2007
After the iconic Nowt But A Fleein Thing, Dave Birkett's E8 on Cam Crag, the man is working on a new line on the same crag, high on the scree slopes above Wasdale In the Lake District.

He hasn't done it yet....something about certain death.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
 Apollo 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Yeah I NEARLY did a hard new line yesterday, is this news worthy?
(marktomlinson) 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Apollo:

not really news, but its still interesting, and i enjoyed watching the clip. I'd much rather hear about this than some of the things put in the news section, like someone's account of doing Cenotaph.
 Apollo 12 Jul 2007
In reply to (marktomlinson):

> I'd much rather hear about this than some of the things put in the news section, like someone's account of doing Cenotaph.

Ha, true enough.
 lee birtwistle 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Apollo: I thought the account of CC was quite good actually.
In reply to lee birtwistle: News is obviously thin on the ground.....

What about Eric Lopez (16) climbing two 9a's in a day?!
 220bpm 12 Jul 2007
In reply to north country boy:
> (In reply to lee birtwistle) News is obviously thin on the ground.....
>
> What about Eric Lopez (16) climbing two 9a's in a day?!

<agog>

So Ondra has some competion then - lol
 220bpm 12 Jul 2007
In reply to lee birtwistle:
> (In reply to Apollo) I thought the account of CC was quite good actually.

A wee bit cheesey, but passed a few minutes one lunchtime. Better than I could do anyway, in either a scholarly or climbing fashion.
Quite liked the wee vid of DB on his latest project, interesting to see the workings and nor just successful leads/RP's.
 Paz 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Does this evidence a slight change in reporting standards? Back in the day you'd never hear news reports about what projects people were trying, in some sort of comraderie effort to not put extra pressure on the poor fellow, even though everyone would be talking about it anyway. The first I'd heard of Mclure's ascent was when he'd done it, but I think Mcleod showed videos of him trying Rhapsody in advance.

Or do you just write a news report up about every little thing you hear, Mick?
 Glyn Jones 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Or do you just write a news report up about every little thing you hear, Mick?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=252327&v=1#3720106

He needs a kick!
 Chris the Tall 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I won the quiz at Dave's local last week.

Dave popped in, decided he had no chance (of a seat at least) and disappeared in the direction of th ODG

Which is a pity, cos "I beat Dave Birkett in a pub quiz" would be a moderately interesting story, whereas "Dave Birkett walked into the pub, had a look round, walked out again" is a bit lacking....
 Tyler 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:

> Does this evidence a slight change in reporting standards? Back in the day

Are you old enough to talk about "back in the day"?

> you'd never hear news reports about what projects people were trying,

Really? How do you think the legends of things like Indian Face built up before they were climbed? Where does the idea of 'last great problems come from'?

> The first I'd heard of Mclure's ascent was when he'd done it,

Well if you hadn't heard about it then there must not have been anyone talking about it, eh?

> Or do you just write a news report up about every little thing you hear, Mick?

I hope so, any title tattle is worth hearing in my opinion, considering how much time most of us spend on this site reading crap the time taken to read something actually about climbing is immaterial, all goes to filling in the detail between the banner headlines of "Climber X climbs route Y".
 lee birtwistle 12 Jul 2007
In reply to north country boy: I think that perhaps the CC thing was in the articles section and not the news section.
Two 9a's in a day - yes - damned good
I used to buy climber and other mags but got fed up with always hearing about another 9a route that someone has spent 6 months trying that I stopped buying them. I'm not knocking their achievements by any means but would rather hear about someone climbing something that I or most people who post on here could aspire to do or can relate to.
One persons first lead of a Grit E1 is probably more interesting to me than reports of 9a's and E11's.
Saying that though, I always find reports of trad ascents more interesting than reports of bolted ascents.
 Paz 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Tyler:

>
> Are you old enough to talk about "back in the day"?

How old do you have to be, as old as Sutty? I feel wise beyond my years having paid reasonable attention to what people like you have been saying for ooh, the last five years or so and having read some old OTEs.

>
> Really? How do you think the legends of things like Indian Face built up before they were climbed? Where does the idea of 'last great problems come from'?

That particular one by John Redhead being a dick, Johnny bringing sport climbing tactics to cloggy, then writing the most famous piece of E9 prose about it, then Gresham nearly taking the lob having a wobbler on it, etc.

Anyway, I deliberately carefully phrase something, to the end of pointing out that I might be wrong, and imply that that sentence should be taken with a pinch of salt, you go and throw it back at me. I'm perfectly aware that in-situ malham climbers might have known what bit of rock McLure was on for most of May, but I bet you I'm not the only one who didn't know that until he did it. People acknowledge LGPs before they're done, even give them names like Waining Moon and Yoghurt Arete. I can remember hearing about Bentley on the latter a year or so before it was done, but I reckon the first most people heard about Equilibrium was him on the cover of OTW in a Meteor under `Grit E10'. Everyone knew Ben was trying Northern lights after he did Hubble too, but like I say I think this was an exceptional case which we're now seeing more of.

>
> all goes to filling in the detail .... "Climber X climbs route Y".

That's the point, that this story isn't about X climbs Y, yet. I quite like hearing about it, but I'm surprised Dave's gone and announced he's on his project before he's done it as it's a bit unusual (for him at least - this is the first time he's done this isn't it?), though part of a recent trend.

I just also think that Mick prints everything.
 Tyler 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:

> How old do you have to be, as old as Sutty?

Well it's a matter of some debate among academics but I used the term myself recently and felt very self-concious, I asked my learned friend whether i was allowed to and he said "Yes, of course" but then he is a youngster of 28. In conclusion I'd say event s 20+ years ago can be judged as being 'back in the day' but I think more discussion is need on the topic before we can be certain of a definition which is acceptable to the majority.

> I feel wise beyond my years

Yeah and I feel that I look like Brad Pit but it don't make it so.

> That particular one by John Redhead being a dick,

If by being a dick you mean painting the mural then its status predates that by some margin.

> Anyway, I deliberately carefully phrase something, to the end of pointing out that I might be wrong, and imply that that sentence should be taken with a pinch of salt, you go and throw it back at me.

At the risk of this becomeing a petty semantical argument I fail to see how the sentence "The first I'd heard of Mclure's ascent was when he'd done it" implies that it should be taken with a pinch of salt or tht it has some dual meaning but then I'm no scholar.

> I'm perfectly aware that in-situ malham climbers might have known what bit of rock McLure was on for most of May, but I bet you I'm not the only one who didn't know that until he did it.

You won't have been the only one but nor would it have been only in situ Malahm climbers wh knew about this.

> People acknowledge LGPs before they're done, even give them names like Waining Moon and Yoghurt Arete. I can remember hearing about Bentley on the latter a year or so before it was done, but I reckon the first most people heard about Equilibrium was him on the cover of OTW in a Meteor under `Grit E10'. Everyone knew Ben was trying Northern lights after he did Hubble too, but like I say I think this was an exceptional case which we're now seeing more of.

So now you are conceeding that project have always been discussed prior to being climbed?

> That's the point, that this story isn't about X climbs Y, yet.

Talk about twisting things, you've just removed a significant part of my sentence to support your case, re-read what I wrote.

> I quite like hearing about it, but I'm surprised Dave's gone and announced he's on his project before he's done it as it's a bit unusual (for him at least - this is the first time he's done this isn't it?),

Well the clip is on the Posing Production website which has a video about DB coming out soon........

> though part of a recent trend.

All thats changed really is the media, before these things got around by word of mouth now its word of mouth plus the internet meaning that more people get to hear about these things more quickly but I don't think attitudes have changed particulalry, just that more of us have become privvy to the information, which as an avid reader of gossip and rumour, I welcome.

> I just also think that Mick prints everything.

Good, but then I have the ability to read something and decide for myself on its improtance/relevance. Before you pick up a news paper does your mother go through it and circle all the articles of interest to you. I never understand peoples attitude towards what is written in the news section of this site, everyone who uses this forum willingly reads about 100 times more irrelevant shite than even gets printed in the news section but seem to bitch about what get written in the news.

 BelleVedere 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Chris the Tall:

@ the Brit?
(marktomlinson) 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Well what about this guy doing two 9as in a day? Someone write a news article about that please?

Would seem to be a bit more newsworthy than some guy trying a new E8/9 in the Lakes. Probably a few peeps with projects of comparable difficulty at the moment? But then they are not film stars like DB.

(marktomlinson) 12 Jul 2007
In reply to (marktomlinson): (though obviously i dont know that it is E8/9 but seems like a good bet given its description and other routes DB has done)
 Paz 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Tyler:

> Yeah and I feel that I look like Brad Pit but it don't make it so.

Pitt! But quite. I just couldn't be arsed to give you the `lifelong student of climbing trivia speel', though clearly now that was what was necessary.

> If by being a dick you mean painting the mural then its status predates that by some margin.

And putting bolts in on Cloggy unless that was Roland Edwards instead, instead of as well as. Did JR `wrestle with his conscience about it' or something, and no bolts ever went in? I forget. I never understood what went on with the flake either, but it pissed one of the John's off. That's the idea anyway, that it predated it, and thus contributed to the Legend before the route itself was actually born.

> At the risk of ...

The simple fact that it says `I' instead of `we' or `anyone'. I didn't mean to misintepret what oyu sais as it was besides the point. Even though you don't have one maybe I should have said `that's my idea' and `that's my point', or even the first one of them, but I felt like I was struggling to explain myself to you.

> So now you are conceeding that project have always been >discussed prior to being climbed?

Did I say they hadn't? I'm saying you never used to hear very often in the news about specific people trying specific routes. People kept it quiet deliberately to avoid putting pressure on themselves, and there was usually a gentleman's agreement not to tell it to or print it in, the mags.

Kind of similarly to the fact that you never hear of anyone failing on anything. Therefore they never do, because they're rock superstars beyond such mortal failings that afflict us punters, is the obvious (depressingly common) misinterpretation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but newspapers have editors who exercise some sort of discretion. We've just had an article about how Keith Sharples managed to get Overshadow into Metro. If this really was such a difficult task and a notable achievement, then obviously some other material gets rejected by newspapers.

That's just what I wonder, whether Mick ever exercises any editorial discretion at all.
 abarro81 12 Jul 2007
In reply to (marktomlinson): it's on 8a.nu
(marktomlinson) 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:

I hear that Barrows has been training lots to improve his power to weight ratio.
(marktomlinson) 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:

That's a fair point (the last bit). The point of the film is just to promote the new PP vid, and not to keep us informed of ground breaking new developments...
OP Michael Ryan 12 Jul 2007
Sorry chaps been in the Scottish mountains all day.

The point of this news item and the short clip it advertises, is to give some insight into high level new routing....for those who are interested.

Hopefully we shall follow this up with a news report about the actual ascent.

Nothing like a bit of anticipation as well.

It has other aspects: it gives people like Apollo and Paz, the chance to have a right good moan on the forums....it raises their blood pressure and kicks starts the day for them, a bit like my father reading another 'outrageous' story in the Daily Mail. Thius is essential and joyful for some.

Our market research shows that whilst few post, many like to view these posts, without comment, for reading enjoyment and edification.

It has another aspect. I like to support talented climbing media people who express our sport/pasttime/lifestyle/hobby etc.....people like Mr.Lee at Posing, Dave and Paul at Haches, Simon Panton and crew at Ground Up, Alex Messenger, Daimon Beail, Keith Sharples.......and quite a few more

The dinner bell has just gone and I have another big day on the morrow.

Farewell for now.

Mick
OP Michael Ryan 12 Jul 2007
In reply to (marktomlinson):
> (In reply to Apollo)
>
> I'd much rather hear about this than some of the things put in the news section, like someone's account of doing Cenotaph.

Hi Mark

This is the internet.....give me the link to the Cenotaph News report.

I did search....

http://www.google.com/custom?domains=UKClimbing.com&q=cenotaph&sa.x...

I see a Cenotaph Article......

Occasionally, you just have to do something stupid
by Dave Jennions
14/Jun/2007

Viewed: 4338 times

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=466

But no News report.

UKClimbing.com has several departments and sub-departments: the main ones being those on the top menu bar.....HOME, FORUMS, DATABASES, LOGBOOKS, NEWS, PHOTOS, ARTICLES, GEAR and SEARCH.

OP Michael Ryan 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Apollo:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Yeah I NEARLY did a hard new line yesterday, is this news worthy?

If it is one of your bum-dragging stella lines on South Lakes limestones, then probably yes.

Email us the details.

 Tyler 12 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:

> That's just what I wonder, whether Mick ever exercises any editorial discretion at all.

But you said you were interested to read the item so what ediorial control would you like? You'd prefer it if it hadn't been written even though you enjoyed it?
 Paz 13 Jul 2007
In reply to Tyler:

It wasn't the most relevant thread I could've asked him on, but I thought I might as well do so before I forgot, while I had his attention.

I'm not about to go and check all the news reports to see which ones aren't newsworthy, and like you say it's a non debate. I'm just curious how much actual editing out our editor does.

Anyway, the point I was intersted in was if more people are declaring their personal projects in advance. Today I think people only do this if they've got videos coming out.

In reply to Mick:

I'm moaning yet at the same time I bring joy to people? Right.
 GrahamD 13 Jul 2007
In reply to north country boy:
> (In reply to lee birtwistle) News is obviously thin on the ground.....
>
> What about Eric Lopez (16) climbing two 9a's in a day?!

I missed that one - where was that one reported ?

OP Michael Ryan 13 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:

In answer to your question Paz...we get far more news reports submitted, found and researched than we could publish. We base our decision on which ones to use on the interests of our diverse climbing and mountaineering readership. We don't just publish stuff about our mates or business associates like some!

We must be doing something right as our readership has rocketed in the last year, both registered users and page views. The news page a year ago used to get about 1,000 visits a day, 30,000 a month: last month June that figure was just over 100,000 for the month.....3,300+ a day. In addition we do get praise (as well as criticism) for drawing people's attention to things.

Personally I am very keen to link to videos as that is one of the advantages of the internet. I only wish more people did videos.

Whilst the forums are a big part of UKClimbing.com, many who come here do not read them.....but one rough indication of the popularity of a news item can be its associated thread views......

M
OP Michael Ryan 13 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:
> (In reply to Tyler)
>
> I'm moaning yet at the same time I bring joy to people? Right.

That's correct. The voyeuristic tendencies of most humans is a fundamental reason of the popularity of much of the modern media......from Paris Hilton's prison stay to Big Brother....to people posting on internet forums.
 Steve Parker 13 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Well, 'news' or not, I thought it was an interesting bit of film. Dave Birkett is great. He must be one of the most down to earth big league climbers around.
 Paz 13 Jul 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Glad to hear it. Given how in depth some of your reports are getting it'd be a massive work load to smarten them all up like the ones you've been doing.

Re: Joy/ voyeurism. So you've still got plenty of `lurkers'?
OP Michael Ryan 13 Jul 2007
In reply to Paz:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>

> Re: Joy/ voyeurism. So you've still got plenty of `lurkers'?

You meam 'readers,' yes, the majority are.


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