/ NEWS: BMC launch Incident and Near-miss Reporting System

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UKC News - on 16 Apr 2019
The British Mountaineering Council has launched an Incident and near-miss reporting system for climbers, hillwalkers and mountaineers in partnership with Mountaineering Scotland and Mountaineering Ireland. The system is the brainchild of BMC volunteer Pete Callaghan, who decided that a database of accidents could help to educate others after being involved in an avalanche on Helvellyn in January 2018.

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philhilo - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Excellent news, a long time coming. I hope the results will be accessible so we can all benefit from the occasional thoughtful read and review what we do. Thanks Pete

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petegunn on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to philhilo:

Although this will probably become a very good resource for those to educate and to learn from,  I wonder if climbing wall insurance and the like will see a price hike from insurers or even the slow decline of lead climbing walls as seems to be happening in America.

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Luke90 on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to philhilo:

> I hope the results will be accessible so we can all benefit from the occasional thoughtful read and review what we do. Thanks Pete

Have you clicked the links? There are already quite a number of well-written reports available to view. https://www.incidents.thebmc.co.uk/responses

I've only glanced through a few but I've already been reminded of some important things to think about.

As you say, great work by the BMC!

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yodadave on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to petegunn:

can you expand on the decline of lead walls in the US? I'm intrigued, what have you seen or heard?

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eroica64 - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Brilliant Idea. Could a fifth column be added to the table to summarise the outcome please? It would help searching through the growing list of results a lot I feel.

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Presley Whippet on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Recent articles about the bmc only serve to turn me off, it is all too much like being at work, something I escape from through climbing. 

Near miss reporting and the recent business bullshit soaked article about ODG make me very glad that I can just get on with it and ignore the bmc. The bmc serves a good purpose but sadly it has caught corporate flu and there is no known cure. 

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Martin Bagshaw - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Brilliant news!

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James Mann - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Mr Whippet,

Whatever you might think about the ODG or the BMC as an organisation, the incident reporting system is largely the work of a Pete Callaghan who has as a volunteer, tirelessly worked on this over the past couple of years. His plan was to provide a way of sharing accident information in a constructive way which could be learned from by the climbing community as a whole. This really isn't corporate bullshit at all but a grassroots idea carried out mainly by volunteers with the support of BMC staff. I am sure that Pete doesn't require praise to feel that he has done something of real benefit to the climbing community but I would like to commend him for bringing this to fruition.

James

Post edited at 17:49
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Sean Kelly - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to James Mann:

Well said James. The UK is one of a few countries that did not have such a system of reporting such near misses & accidents. Hopefully we can all be better informed by the spread of such shared information.

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mag - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to James Mann:

Just because the lad is a volunteer doesn’t necessarily make it a good idea. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

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Andy Reeve on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to mag:

> Just because the lad is a volunteer doesn’t necessarily make it a good idea. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

Although what you say is - out of context - correct, I cannot see it's relevance here. In fact, it comes across as unnecessarily critical an obtuse.

Thanks Pete and everyone else involved. Clearly this is a great initiative.

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James Mann - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to mag:

Wise words. What actually is your point?

James

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Offwidth - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to James Mann:

Well said James... many thanks indeed to Pete. I still suspect nothing much will change ... the people who need to read such reports usually won't and those who do and need to learn usually won't. I see bad practice all the time from experienced climbers who should know better, especially worrying when belaying indoors.

This needed to be volunteer led, like most other BMC work. It will produce better evidence, even if for the things we mostly strongly suspected already.

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petecallaghan - on 16 Apr 2019
In reply to eroica64:

> Could a fifth column be added to the table to summarise the outcome please? It would help searching through the growing list of results a lot I feel.

Thanks very much for your suggestion. The report list layout is very basic at the moment. Ideas like yours will help us make the reports resort to find and more useful. 

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petecallaghan - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

I'm really encouraged by the number of reports we have received in just a couple of days, and by the lessons they provide. 

I'd like to say 'thanks' to all those who have already trusted the new service to share their experiences with us all. Please keep them coming. 

I've found UKC and the community here very supportive of this idea, so it's great to see it progress to this launch. Discussions on this forum brought our small team together in the first place. 

The support and hard work of lots of people in the BMC has also been essential to getting us to launch. There's lots more to do, but it's great to get this stage.

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Chris Ebbutt - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to petecallaghan:

Well done Pete, an outstanding piece of work that over time will grow to provide a vital source of first hand information that will be of benefit to all and personally think will save lives. 

On its own it cannot prevent mistakes in the games we choose to play, but at least people will have the opportunity to learn from the problems others have experienced and hopefully try not to repeat them. 

A vital part of it’s future success is participation, so I strongly urge anyone with an “event” to take the time and share their experiences.

Congratulations Pete for all your hard work and commitment to see this project through.

yours sincerely 

Chris Ebbutt

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profitofdoom on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to Chris Ebbutt:

> Well done Pete, an outstanding piece of work....

People like Pete make me NOT want to give up in life. And inspire me a lot

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jimtitt - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Anticipation is an essential part of accident prevention and so it is instructive to note the first two incidents are going to occur in October this year

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eroica64 - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to James Mann:

What is the matter with you? The road to hell is paved with good intentions indeed. There's far more paving of that road with lousy and evil intentions. I think, FWIW, your comment is foolish and mean-spirited. Shame on you.

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eroica64 - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to eroica64:

Totally mis-addressed and intended for mag. I am tremendously sorry that I replied to James Mann. It was unintended and stupid of me.

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petecallaghan - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

Thanks for pointing this out Jim

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AlanLittle - on 17 Apr 2019
In reply to James Mann:

I suspect his/her "point" is the same as Pete Gunn's - that the best approach to risk management is whistling & looking the other way, because doing anything publicly to address it might draw outside attention to the fact that risks exist.

I do not agree.

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Derek Ryden - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

I just get a "loading" screen when I follow the link

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danm on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to Derek Ryden:

Working fine for me atm.

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Phil Layton - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

When I started climbing 10 years ago it was the first thing I looked for to help me manage the risks involved.  This will save lives, not just minimise injuries.

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Mark Kemball - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

So often, on this forum, following an accident we have a "What happened, what can we learn?" thread. This is often inappropriate, especially if there has been a fatality and any lessons learnt are probably rapidly forgotten. This reporting system will hopefully help answer these questions.

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Mark Kemball - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Reading through the reports submitted so far, I really like the fact that clicking on the crag or climb link takes you to the UKC datbase. Thinking ahead, would it be possible for a link in the UKC database to link back to the relevant incidents for a crag, climb or area?

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Alan Pierce - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

Very good idea . I served 15 years as a rock climbing instructor in the British Army..Title JSRCI Joint Service Rock Climbing Instructor and each one of us had a duty to report accidents and near miss situations back in the mid 80s. At the risk of sounding like a moaning old fart its something that should be encouraged at club and social media sites because i see dangerous practice everywhere i seen climbers these days. Back in the day with the type of equipment we had in a not so developed stage we all took the business of safety a whole lot more serious than i see people practicing today but i do realise that it is more to do with the sheer numbers involved as much as the way people tend to pick up their skills these days .

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Chris Cordery - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to UKC News:

I believe this to be an excellent initiative and resource.  Amongst many other benefits it will enable people who take time to browse the database occasionally to avoid our common enemy: complacency! 

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Offwidth - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to Alan Pierce:

Climbers on average taking safety more seriously in the late 80s compared to now isn't something I remember. The chaos in my student club and bad advice from the Student Union was what first got me involved with the BMC, for club safety advice and support, in the early 90s. We even met the odd badly behaved army group.... most were very good ... but not the one abseiling in  big boots  down a pebble dependant high Extreme at The Roaches.

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Pan Ron - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to mag:

> Just because the lad is a volunteer doesn’t necessarily make it a good idea. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

What Hell do you anticipate? And how would you balance a negative impact of a voluntary reporting system, which you can ignore entirely, against useful lessons being learnt and perhaps a few people saved from life changing trauma?  Other recreational sectors have such systems and are wholly better for it.

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Mark Kemball - on 18 Apr 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> Near miss reporting and the recent business bullshit soaked article about ODG make me very glad that I can just get on with it and ignore the bmc. The bmc serves a good purpose but sadly it has caught corporate flu and there is no known cure. 

What you forget is that the BMC is a membership led organisation. 

How did this reporting system come into being? Well Pete, a club member in the south west, came to an area meeting and suggested it. The members there decided we liked it and wanted to push it forward. So our representatives took the proposal to the National Council, who after discusion decided to support the idea. What followed was a lot of voluntary work by Pete and others, supported by the BMC office staff with regular progress reports to our area meetings, resulting in the system we now have, which having taken a look at it seems well worthwhile.

Quite how this fits in with your perception of "business bullshit" and "corporate flu" I can't see.

Mark Kemball (BMC SW area secretary).

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