In reply to Adam L:
> (In reply to petellis)
> [...]
>
> Pete, you say that and then worry about how sustainable climbing is on grit generally?
I didn't really make my point very well, I think the sustainability problem is with the numbers of people at crags and climbing lower grade routes (like right unconquerable I guess) which are either getting polished or knackered and the land around the crags is getting badly erroded. If careless torque was ruined it wouldn't affect many climbers to be honest. Putting pictures of it up and going "tut tut, somebody's been naughty" isn't really going to solve the problem of there being literally thousands of climbers at stanage every weekend.
> Hard grit routes are often fragile things. By trying to encourage better styles of ascent the routes get far less traffic.
I wouldn't know I don't climb them. Do they really change much more than something like 3 pebble slab has changed, now the pebbles are gone, a little bit harder but still the same route?
> Folk treat fragile holds far more gently when on lead. I've heard of climbers kicking pebbles when on top-rope to 'check they're strong enough for the lead'.
Sounds pretty sensible, if I was going to do the sequence around a particular pebble at my headpoint limit I'd want to make damn sure it wouldn't come out and kill me!
> Whatever you think, if there was a widely respected ground-up ethic on grit, the rock would get much less of a hammering.
There already is for 99% of climbing by ordinary climbers (punters like myself generally). As others have mentioned maybe the gear placements would take the hammering instead. I didn't think there was any gear on careless, I wouldn't want to ground up that unless I had a bouncey castle as a boulder pad!
> On Careless Torque, that means at least doing the boulder problem start first.
maybe they had...