/ FRI NIGHT VID: Hard Trad in Indian Creek with Brad Gobright
Excellent climbing footage. The second route looks insane. Both Gobright and Kennedy have done inspiring climbs and shunned the limelight. RIP HK.
Great looking routes.
It looks like Nesscliffe on steroids
Or the Quarryman?
Interesting how the route mixes trad pro and bolts but seems to work. Good vid.
Good video but 'trad' in quite a loose sense, and is there a fair bit of chipping going one (some holds seem to have suspiciously free space to allow fingers )?
"Trad" can mean different things to different people. For some, it refers to routes where the climber uses removable protection. For others, it refers to the ground-up style of FA, regardless of whether protection is with removable gear, bolts, pitons, or something else. Aside: "Mixed climbing" generally applies to routes where rock and ice are climbed with axes and crampons.
In this video, there are two hard HK routes: Carbondale Short Bus, which is on all removable gear. Kokanee Corner, which has some bolts and some gear placements. I don't know if either FA was done ground up. Great CSB FA video here: https://www.vimeo.com/50101783
outside of the uk, this is quite common
Where are you Rad? I’ve never heard your second definition of “trad” where you seem to conflate it with ground up but allow bolts to creep in. New one to me. In my experience trad is a route with removable gear with the only gray area being that pegs were (and in some cases still are) in that. Bolts wouldn’t be. Having climbed in the states in the 90’s we did encounter “trad” with very limited numbers of bolts on sections that had no obvious removable gear. These were fairly sparsely placed and the gear was predominantly nuts and cams. Often beside a route with the odd bolt you would have another with all removable gear and it simply depended on the features on the rock.
> Where are you Rad? I’ve never heard your second definition of “trad” where you seem to conflate it with ground up but allow bolts to creep in.
More common in America I think. Traditional being more about approach (i.e. ground up vs abseil inspection/rap bolting) than style of protection.
Really inspiring climbing! Fantastic lines and really trying hard.
I also looked up Hayden Kennedy, who I'd not heard of, and his story broke my heart.
Comment comes across slightly patronising - I know but have never climbed that style before personally. More the keeping of the style of it - notice there was a big runout on one of the routes. Would be easy to add a bolt - thin end of the wedge and all.
I'm in the US, where some climbers, particularly the older ones, focus a lot on the style of the first ascent - ground-up versus top-down, referring to the former as trad. I agree with you that most people now think of "sport" climbs having bolts and "trad" climbs requiring gear placements. In the US we don't like placing bolts next to cracks, so it's not uncommon to have hybrid routes like the one in this video. Come on over and I'll show you around some of routes in the Pacific Northwest!
Nice climbing but I'm glad I don't have to camp with the oiks he hangs around with...
> Comment comes across slightly patronising - I know but have never climbed that style before personally. More the keeping of the style of it - notice there was a big runout on one of the routes. Would be easy to add a bolt - thin end of the wedge and all.
Not patronising at all. I have no idea of your knowledge or experience. I started climbing in New Zealand and you'd often have mixed routes where if there wasn't sufficient trad pro, you'd chuck in a bolt to protect a dangerous fall. And have seen this in America, France, Spain etc. In my experience routes don't get over-bolted, in fact usually the opposite as the first ascentionist was a cheap b*stard and put in a single run-out bolt through 30m of slab, or just to protect the single hardest move. My thinking is that because other countries only use a technical grade (e.g. YDS or Ewbank) there's not really an issue of making something safer. However, I really don't want to start yet another bolting vs non bolting thread.
Apologies if it came across the wrong way.
There are Limestone and slate trad climbs with bolts like this in the UK.
UK climbers are often ignorant of the tradition of US routes pioneered with hand drilled boots on lead (and that later on these were often replaced by safer new bolts). In some places extra bolts do creep in but most of the original bolting makes sense if you climb there and are aware of the history.
Thanks for your reply and your offer, it’ll maybe have to wait until I retire. Yes, familiar with the style from Fremont Canyon and other areas in Wyoming. And the ground up ethic and style. Just didn’t realise it was termed trad. None of the Americans (albeit not many) I’ve ever spoken to referred to trad as per your definition. Then again I maybe didn’t know enough to quiz them properly.
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