UKC

The International Federation of Sport Climbing (IFSC) and the International Climbing and Mountaineering Federation (UIAA) have announced that upcoming climbing competitions scheduled to take place in Russia have been cancelled or relocated due to the country's ongoing invasion of Ukraine, while condemning the violence of the conflict.

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Good to see that most sporting organisations are not remaining silent on the issue.

I wonder if banning Russian participation is next on the list, surely they can’t be allowed any international platform to spread any form of soft power.

I know what you're saying but it's pretty harsh on the athletes. I'm sure they don't support the war.

You cannot tell what individual athletes think or say - some will be totally against what is happening, some will be supporting it, but sanctions cannot discriminate between them.

What is virtually certain, is that anyone who is against the war will understand the stance taken, and anyone who supports the war we (I presume) do not want flag-waving anyway.

Also that sanctions will hurt Putin where he feels it, as in a form of "disrespect", and individual Russians will eventually understand that EVERY other country doesn't want anything to do with them. They won't be able to hold onto the lie that their enemies are Nazis and drug dealers for ever, not when pretty well the entire world is in that list.

You really think a climber that's travelled and competed internationally, and had all the experiences associated with that, would be for the war? I think it's pretty unlikely.

As far as I can see, the only people for it are those brainwashed by Russian state media with no access to other news sources.

For the record, I'm not against banning the athletes competing. I just said it was harsh that you can spend your life training for a sport and then be banned from it because the country you represent has a crazed leader.

I think that might apply to The Olympics or whatever the pinnacle is for a particular sort happening every few years, but these are just events on a "tour" - plenty more like them.

I agree it’s not fair on the individual athletes and bear them no ill will however it’s a platform for Russian propaganda.

My first reaction was the same as yours, but here’s some Russian propaganda arising out their athletes competing internationally:-

youtube.com/watch?v=QFN0s53RpGY&

Starts at about 4.30. In case anyone wonders why the interviewer is such an idiot, it’s because he’s a Serb nationalist who thinks the main point arising out of the Ukrainian war is that NATO was horrid to Serbia when it stopped them killing Bosnian Muslims in 2002 or so.

Of course not every Russian athlete is as courageous as Alexander Grischuk, but still, it does give one pause for thought.

jcm

Again no ill will, I expect those who travel have a more rounded world view however anything they say or do that goes against the approved message will be edited out or modified for local consumption. Russia will provide its own narrative, it just needs video of their athletes at the events.

You might be right, but Grischuk seems to think the media might report his stuff.

jcm

I didn't say "climber" - I said "athletes". I was referring to any and all persons in any and all sports.

Now many of these will be in teams, where they effectively have zero contact with other nations athletes, but only their coaches/minders. Then also some, especially the young, will not have had much experience of foreign travel.

It is these persons who are most likely to be "for" Putin's Russia, as opposed to being against the war. These persons will be (effectively) brainwashed.

Now it may be harsh on some to ban their entire country, but there is no practical way of discriminating between those for and those against - and if there was, then when those against the war (and by extension the government and Putin himself) returned to Russia who knows what might happen to them. Russia in general, and Putin in particular have a record in this respect.

It might be a bit of a soft, liberal, touchy-feely approach but it seems like there might be something to be said for being terribly nice and accommodating to individual Russians at events like this, or the Paralympics, to drive home the point to them - and more importantly the domestic population who watch and support them - that it is Vladimir Putin ‘we’ object to rather than Russians and Russia more generally

There is, but the domestic public in Russia will only be watching them through a highly distorted state media lens; any participation / success will be categorised as a success for the regime and support for its actions. The only way to hope to deal with it is to absolutely isolate Russia in every form possible, in the hope of getting regime change from within.

Do you honestly think that Putin would allow any returning athletes to go on (state) TV and tell everybody that Putin is wrong ? Or indeed whether they wouldn't disappear into a gulag if they attempted it.

That really does sound overly soft, liberal, touchy-feely - or should I say misguided ?

Well athletes from Russia and Belarus are now banned from competing in the Paralympics and Russia is on the verge of announcing martial law which will give them further powers to silence their own citizens.

I'm glad about the first part - a ridiculous anomaly that needed fixing.

As for silencing their own citizens - since when did the Russian police/military/thugs actually need new laws, they've been inventing crimes and other reasons to lock up people who disagreed with Putin for years.

Perhaps tacit acknowledgement that internal politics and public opinion is not as Putini would want the world to believe.

Perhaps sitting back and waiting for Russia to implode might actually be working?

Well, no, probably not, but the point would be that it might help  the general population see something beyond the official line. Any time spent on these very forums illustrates how people can be entrenched in their points of views and how poorly bluntly telling them they’re wrong works. Better to bring people to their own realisation that their views aren’t supported by reality by exposing them to contradicting situations