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NEWSFLASH: New Nose Speed Record by Gobright & Reynolds

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 UKC News 21 Oct 2017
US climbers Brad Gobright and Jim Reynolds have shaved four minutes off the previous record for climbing The Nose on El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, completing the Valley classic in two hours, nineteen minutes and forty-four seconds (2:19:44).

Read more
2
 JamieSparkes 22 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:

Can't help but think that Hans florines times, spread over 2 decades, are pretty damn impressive!
 profitofdoom 22 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:

Impressive. Their average speed was 20.77 feet per minute. Doing Cenotaph Corner at that speed gets you up it in 5 minutes. Do that 26 times in a row with no breaks (The Nose is about equal in height to 26 Corners one on top of the other)
 thermal_t 22 Oct 2017
In reply to profitofdoom:

> Impressive. Their average speed was 20.77 feet per minute. Doing Cenotaph Corner at that speed gets you up it in 5 minutes. Do that 26 times in a row with no breaks (The Nose is about equal in height to 26 Corners one on top of the other)

Strangely I have always thought of El Cap as a lot bigger than that! It's almost made it seem more manageable!
 Offwidth 22 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:

Really pleased to hear that. They came flying past us onto the Great Roof pitch last month on a practice run... amazingly impressive and we so lucky to get a grandstand view of the tactics involved.
 mrphilipoldham 22 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:

Anyone would think they didn’t enjoy climbing.
5
In reply to UKC News:

Interesting that Duncan (of this parish) did it in close to 50% of the FFA time in 1984. And faster than Bachar and Croft would do two years later.

Mick

In reply to UKC News:

Zzzzzz to be honest...sorry
36
 treesrockice 22 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:
Please interview Hans F about this!?
In reply to Offwidth:

> Really pleased to hear that. They came flying past us onto the Great Roof pitch last month on a practice run... amazingly impressive and we so lucky to get a grandstand view of the tactics involved.

Are you saying you were on the Nose yourself, Steve? Please tell us more.
In reply to profitofdoom:

Except much harder than cenotaph to climb it fast and rarely bridging!
 laxman 23 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:
What a bunch of poop! Clearly Hans has a long list of admirable climbs. But, why should we really care about shaving a "huge" 4 minutes off the Nose climb? Did some magical GPS scan verify that time? With the recent death of Hayden Kennedy and Inge Perkins, both of whom were no-strut-about accomplished climbers, why not focus on those who make great accomplishments without the media fanfare? Somehow, things having been getting out of focus for many recent years.
44
 Wil Treasure 23 Oct 2017
In reply to laxman:

> why not focus on those who make great accomplishments without the media fanfare?

I think you might have answered your own question there.

 Offwidth 23 Oct 2017
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Remind me to tell you the story next time we meet. We'll be at kendal.
 Offwidth 23 Oct 2017
In reply to laxman:
Hilarious.... Brad and Jim as the next Bear Grylls style media bitches... you clearly don't know anything about them at all. Their practice time on the day they passed us was 2.48 and they were jessing as they passed each group getting ready for the day ('we discovered we could do 5.9 in the gym so we thought we'd try the Nose') and exhuding pure joy in their climbing.
Post edited at 09:04
 Blake 23 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:
When I was in Yose last autumn, I was walking up to el cap and passed Brad and Jim strolling down looking peacefully pensive. I had no idea that they'd just attempted and relatively narrowly missed the speed record - they looked like they'd just done a leisurely sport climb... only with considerably less gear than you'd take on the average trad climb.

About 20 mins later a poor photographer came running past with loads of gear looking totally trashed 'hey man, have you just seen two climbers go through here...? man they were seriously haulin' ass this time'. He'd just descended the lines by salathe trying desperately to keep up with them. He looked totally wasted.

Had a feeling they would be back this year... the gauntlet is down once again.
Post edited at 09:59
 GrahamD 23 Oct 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

What's the etiquette for these speed ascents and overtaking in situ parties? I mean it must be pretty uncommon for a team to get a totally clear run at the route mustn't it ?
 timjones 23 Oct 2017
In reply to laxman:

> What a bunch of poop! Clearly Hans has a long list of admirable climbs. But, why should we really care about shaving a "huge" 4 minutes off the Nose climb? Did some magical GPS scan verify that time? With the recent death of Hayden Kennedy and Inge Perkins, both of whom were no-strut-about accomplished climbers, why not focus on those who make great accomplishments without the media fanfare? Somehow, things having been getting out of focus for many recent years.

Totally unjust.

I met and had a chat with Brad last month after one of their earlier attempts when they managed about 2 hours 41 minutes IIRC.

You could not wish to meet a more humble and down to earth person.

IME there are no "strut-about" climbers in
Yosemite, the very best are always willing to encourage those of us who are less accomplished and take a real interest in what everybody else is doing.

 Pete_Frost 23 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:

It's really pleasant to see some good, well informed, supportive comments from people posting in this thread. Seriously, it's fine to criticise constructively, and banter is fun, but other threads on UKC have become really nasty. In my opinion this one has hit the right note - thanks everyone!

PS: Yosemite is a really inspiring place, and the attitude of the elite of our sport who mix with the rest of us at Camp 4 puts other sports to shame.
In reply to GrahamD:

> What's the etiquette for these speed ascents and overtaking in situ parties? I mean it must be pretty uncommon for a team to get a totally clear run at the route mustn't it ?

Shout at them you are on a speed record then pull on everything
 ianstevens 23 Oct 2017
In reply to ashtond6:

> Shout at them you are on a speed record then pull on everything

Even better if some multi-day punter has equipped one of the bits you need to aid as you storm past them leading a pitch ;)
 ianstevens 23 Oct 2017
In reply to JamieSparkes:

> Can't help but think that Hans florines times, spread over 2 decades, are pretty damn impressive!

Surely he'll be back for another bash too? I get the impression he hates being beaten, and he's only 53...
 Offwidth 24 Oct 2017
In reply to GrahamD:
Their trick was an early start. We were up at dawn and preparing to move as early as possible and they got to us pretty soon after. We got our feet on the wall and pushed out the portaledge so they could climb up between it and the wall (and tidied up their ropes so they didn't catch and to try and help avoid a nasty potential rope lock at the start of the Great Roof pitch that can cost minutes... who knew :O )

I think the bad weather had kept a lot of slower parties away; our excuse was we'd tried something harder and ran out of time and bailed onto the route so were hauling a lot of stuff. Weather was weird as it can be some years: we were sweltering at the start and bivied in a snow storm on the summit. We had some friends elsewhere who just missed being snowed in when abandoning an attempt on The Hulk.
Post edited at 14:55
 Offwidth 24 Oct 2017
In reply to timjones:

Were you at Facelift?
 timjones 24 Oct 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

Yes ;)

What a great event!
 Offwidth 25 Oct 2017
In reply to timjones:

Bugger, could have talked to you in person. We were the anniversary couple at the front announced by Ken and later Timmy.
In reply to Offwidth:
> Really pleased to hear that. They came flying past us onto the Great Roof pitch last month on a practice run... amazingly impressive and we so lucky to get a grandstand view of the tactics involved.

Us too!!
We were just below El Cap Tower when they swarmed past. Joshing and joking, and obviously having fun with it, as you described.

......we missed the facelift events though.
Post edited at 09:44
 timjones 25 Oct 2017
In reply to Offwidth:


> Bugger, could have talked to you in person. We were the anniversary couple at the front announced by Ken and later Timmy.

I was only sat 2 rows directly behind you.

I tried to catch you after the show but didn't run fast enough. I'd have tried harder if I'd known it was you ;)

 steveej 27 Oct 2017
In reply to UKC News:

I was on the nose when Dean and Sean got the record a few years back. Both now sadly passed.

Got to be honest this news makes me yawn. We talk about style in the mountains, quite frankly, I have more respect for someone who works full time, has never been to the valley before, that isn't a sponsored superstar with no local knowledge and doing the route semi wall style with one bivi with no sponsored locals to lend a helping hand.

Im sure they are lovely guys, but thrashing something into submission is moving the goal posts. Is this really a worthy cause? should we all just go and climb the same routes over and over and over again so that logistics are refined and sequences memorised. Cant personally see how this is taking things forward in the climbing world.

Would never happen in Baffin!
5
In reply to steveej:

Yes I definitely agree that the way you choose to climb up rocks is much better than the way they choose to climb up rocks. I think I'm going to head over to Baffin soon so I can put up a route without much logistical planning, hopefully then I'll have a worthy reason to be on UKC news and I'll also get your respect. Can't think of any other reason to set myself arbitrary challenges.
3
 steveej 28 Oct 2017
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Yeah, afraid to say its not about how I choose to climb. Personally, don't give a toss about what others think, my climbs are my climbs and I don't need your seal of approval to make me feel good about myself, sorry if that makes you feel inferior and I'm not about to reel off a list of routes that would make you more so.

Go to baffin on 'Any' route (doesn't need to be a new route) without much planning and don't be surprised if you fail at best or be more ambitious and come back in body bag (and that's if your very lucky enough).

Afraid to say that someone who's actually climbed multiple routes on el cap without spraying finds the news rather contrived and boring, not far removed from the fastest ascent of idwal slabs, not exactly moving things forward in the climbing world in my view, just more advertising.

Maybe it was newsworthy 10 or 15 years ago, is it really now? Are we going to be subjected to another 20 years of listening to people who pre-practise an rehearse routes to the point they shave an extra minute of the time? Why dont they do something original?

Fair enough if you find this original and inspiring. I find it boring. Sign of the times.



14
In reply to steveej:

Rumour has it Jim and Brad, Usain Bolt, the driver of the new 1000mph car, and the editor of the Guinness book of records have all just bought flights to Baffin to pursue goals you deem worthwhile.
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
> Usain Bolt.......... just bought flights to Baffin to pursue goals you deem worthwhile.

Usain Bolt breaking the 100m world record in an Olympics final is the Dawn Wall of athletics. The Nose record is the egg and spoon race of climbing.
Post edited at 10:38
5
In reply to steveej:

> Yeah, afraid to say its not about how I choose to climb. Personally, don't give a toss about what others think, my climbs are my climbs and I don't need your seal of approval to make me feel good about myself, sorry if that makes you feel inferior and I'm not about to reel off a list of routes that would make you more so.

Yet you feel the need on other people's ????
Being such a 'veteran', I assume you are aware of Brads other exploits.

I guess you are also the kind of person who would also whinge if ukc didn't report it
1
In reply to steveej:
> Would never happen in Baffin!

While the Nose speed record and suchlike are obviously, in climbing terms, merely circus side shows, I think their real significance is that they have encouraged the development of techniques and mindsets which have made possible truly ground breaking climbs elsewhere. Probably the most obvious example bring Caldwell and Honnold's Fitzroy traverse. Maybe Baffin next......
Post edited at 10:40
 jon 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Probably the most obvious example bring Caldwell and Honnold's Fitzroy traverse.

Absolutely, but have you read Honnold's book? His account of that is horrifying. For me it just redefined committment. And to think Honnold was naive enough to set off without crampons is just absurd!

 Offwidth 28 Oct 2017
In reply to jon:

I thought he just had problems with the crampons he had (as opposed to having none).
 Mike Highbury 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Offwidth:
> I thought he just had problems with the crampons he had (as opposed to having none).

Yes, he took proper ones (or whatever one calls them) rather than aluminium ones that were suitable for wearing with trainers.
 Offwidth 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

They are no more sideshows than any other dlimbing game and in the end the fact that quite a few of the climbing super elite spent time on them is one of the main indications of worth (an egg and spoon race would be something like the most gritstone chimneys in a day). Watching them move on the Great Roof pitch you were in no doubt this was something special in the same way I've witnessed top grade headpoints or onsights... before the news came out I doubt less than 0.1% of British Climbers had heard of either of them.... parochial that we are. You could almost say the same about the top Spanish sports climbers. Sad and ignorant.

For punters who want to try a speed ascents this is a good drizzly day test (20 minutes is a fast time):

The Proprioceptive Octet (none)

 jon 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Offwidth:
> I thought he just had problems with the crampons he had (as opposed to having none).

Yes, you're right, I'd misremembered it. He set off, a little clueless, with a pair made for mountain boots and as both he and Caldwell were in five-tennies they didn't work at all. Luckily they met Rolo Garibotti on the summit of Guillaumet who was having problems with his hip and was bailing and he gave Honnold his own aluminium ones that would work on approach shoes. Still, the naivety and committment comments hold good!
Post edited at 11:30
 Michael Gordon 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Usain Bolt breaking the 100m world record in an Olympics final is the Dawn Wall of athletics. The Nose record is the egg and spoon race of climbing.

I don't know, they're both about trying to go as fast as possible over a set distance - speed is the marker. A more comparable thing to Dawn Wall in running terms would be running a 100m that no-one else could do, irrespective of time.
 Michael Gordon 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

> You could almost say the same about the top Spanish sports climbers. Sad and ignorant.
>

Now come on, just because they should be out on the grit doesn't mean they aren't enjoying themselves at their chosen discipline...
1
 Offwidth 28 Oct 2017
In reply to jon:

I hold posters like you to higher standards ;-)
In reply to Offwidth:

The level of snobbery in this thread is disgusting. I get that some people might not be into speed climbing, but just to put down someone else's achievement just because, 'yeah man but it's not a first ascent in Antarctica done by a guy who's only been climbing 6 months and who works in an office 14 hours a day'.

 Offwidth 28 Oct 2017
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Inverse snobbery... moving together with no belays sometimes only two runners between them (and not a hex in sight) and having type 1 fun in a way only a tiny minority of climbers anywhere could.
Post edited at 12:18
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

> The level of snobbery in this thread is disgusting. I get that some people might not be into speed climbing, but just to put down someone else's achievement just because, 'yeah man but it's not a first ascent in Antarctica done by a guy who's only been climbing 6 months and who works in an office 14 hours a day'.

Nobody is saying that a Nose speed record is not an astonshing physical, mental and logistical feat. What is up for debate is whether it is a significant milestone in climbing's development (and therefore of interest as more than an impressive stunt). Of course one could argue that all of climbing is all stunts with all forms of equal value, but I feel that it's history and our collective investment in it elevates it above that level. So I suppose it comes down to a sort of climbing relativism. Personally I would yawn if someone made a song and dance about the hardest top rope ever (even if it was 9c+), or if the West Face of Makalu succumbed in winter to the huge logistics of a monstrous siege. And I also find these speed ascents a big yawn because they seem to me to be, in themselves, a dead end. Others may disagree, but I think it is a valid discussion to have if we are interested in climbing's development and direction.

5
 timjones 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

Has climbing got a direction or is it a glorious collection of different challenges?
Lusk 28 Oct 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

> What is up for debate is whether it is a significant milestone in climbing's development.

I can't see anybody claiming it is.
The original article is just 9 lines of text, a nice picture and a screen shot of some times about two blokes who've climbed some some climb quicker than anyone else. Good for them!
You've probably written 2 or 3 more times text on this thread about how bored you are with it than the original article.
In reply to Lusk:

> The original article is just 9 lines of text.

Yes, it's a newsflash.

> You've probably written 2 or 3 more times text on this thread about how bored you are with it than the original article.

So? I'm interested in it. Or rather I'm interested in why I'm not interested in it........ so to speak.

1
 Offwidth 29 Oct 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

" I also find these speed ascents a big yawn because they seem to me to be, in themselves, a dead end. "

In what sense can some of the best climbers in the world enjoying themselves as much as they did at the skill and focus levels required in the face of the risk of such ascents, ever be a dead end?.. why on earth do we climb as adventure climbers if not for that?

"I think it is a valid discussion to have if we are interested in climbing's development and direction."

The only discussion I think we need relates to the way the rock and environment are treated.
In reply to timjones:

> Has climbing got a direction or is it a glorious collection of different challenges?

Both. Directions and bifurcations.
In reply to Offwidth:

> The only discussion I think we need relates to the way the rock and environment are treated.

So are you saying that we should only ever environmental factors when discussing traditions, ethics and style in climbing?

Anyway, I just feel that there is something slightly vulgar about about treating some of the greatest and historically most important routes in the world such as the Nose and the Eigerwand as racetracks on which to practise and compete to knock tiny margins off records. Sorry!

3
prdad 02 Nov 2017
In reply to UKC News:

As the father of Jim Reynolds, some of these comments are completely off-base. But it shows how little you know about him or his climbing partner, Brad. Jim is on Yosemite Search and Rescue. He volunteers his time to make Yosemite a better place. He cares greatly about the climbing community. He is not sponsored but lives a life that allows him the opportunity to do what he loves.
 jon 02 Nov 2017
In reply to prdad:

Well said!
 john arran 02 Nov 2017
In reply to prdad:

Sometimes climbers can be very conservative and dismissive of anything that doesn't correspond to the norms and aspirations that were usual when they first got into climbing. I have no doubt that Jim is a great climber who chooses to direct his energies in a number of directions, and just because this particular achievement doesn't fall within the realm of some people's esteem, doesn't mean that it isn't an amazing achievement that will be inspirational to huge numbers of climbers with more of an open mind. If I were you, I'd be very proud of him!
 GridNorth 02 Nov 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

I agree up to a point but I think it's the reporting, intentional or not, rather than the actual achievement. Even so it does to some extend rub a raw nerve in some of us who were brought up in a different era and portrays climbing in a light that many of us dislike. That doesn't detract from the accomplishment however.

X climbs Route Y in record time doesn't sound nearly as bad as this headline.

Al
2
 Coolmax 02 Nov 2017
In reply to UKC News:

The drive to shave a few seconds off a "record" does seem a bit OCD to me, and I hope it doesn't take off in the UK because there is a dark side - Quinn Brett took a massive fall while attempting a speed ascent of the Nose and is still in hospital -

http://rockandice.com/climbing-news/recovery-update-quinn-brett-100-foot-el-cap-fall/


8
 Offwidth 02 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

The dark side applies to all climbing as we always engage in risk deliberately "The BMC recognises that climbing and mountaineering are activities with a danger of personal injury or death. Participants in these activities should be aware of and accept these risks and be responsible for their own actions.
 john arran 02 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

Are you suggesting we all top-rope everything? Or are you setting yourself up as arbiter as to the directions in which climbers are allowed to challenge themselves where the outcome of a mistake can be serious injury?

Climbing involves risk. Some climbing involves more risk than others. The fact that you don't admire their objective is irrelevant; it's their choice, their reward if it goes well and their fault if it goes badly. In short, it's life. Their lives, not yours.
In reply to Coolmax:

> The drive to shave a few seconds off a "record" does seem a bit OCD to me, and I hope it doesn't take off in the UK because there is a dark side - Quinn Brett took a massive fall while attempting a speed ascent of the Nose and is still in hospital -

Before you start spouting crap, why don't you check your facts?

She was not on a speed record, just a standard NIAD. Which happens every day of the year.

I guess you would ban the stanage VS challenge too.
2
In reply to ashtond6:
> She was not on a speed record, just a standard NIAD. Which happens every day of the year.

Yes, but there are clearly extra risks involved in pushing things to complete a climb within any arbitrary self imposed target time.

Not criticising; just stating the obvious. There are risks in all forms of climbing; the trick is to be aware of them and make informed choices.
Post edited at 21:22
3
In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes but how do you define it?
Should an E9 not solo a VS? Is that reckless?
Many NIADS are comparable to another team doing spiral stairs in a day.

Comparing quinn Bretts fall to some form of negligence or OTT pushing it is ridiculous when she has a track record of things like this:
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web16f/newswire-tour-de-ditch-quinn-brett-and-josie-mckee

One persons NIAD is another persons V1 circuit at the plantation
In reply to ashtond6:

> Many NIADS are comparable to another team doing spiral stairs in a day.

> Comparing quinn Bretts fall to some form of negligence or OTT pushing it is ridiculous.

I'm not. I am making a general point about artificial target times.

> One persons NIAD is another persons V1 circuit at the plantation.

Of course. But for many people it is presumably a big deal.o

1
 jon 02 Nov 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes but the Nose in a day is a logical thing to do, not artificial target time. No hauling all that crap, just the pleasure of climbing an iconic route as quickly and as efficiently as you can.
 Coolmax 02 Nov 2017
In reply to ashtond6:

I think it is you who needs to check their facts
1
In reply to jon:
> Yes but the Nose in a day is a logical thing to do, not artificial target time. No hauling all that crap, just the pleasure of climbing an iconic route as quickly and as efficiently as you can.

So why call it "Nose in a day" then if what it's really about "Nose in one push". Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it at least partly about the 24 hr thing for many people?

Anyway, what does "quickly and efficiently mean"? Presumably, amongst other things, sacrificing style for speed where necessary?

So is it really about sacrificing style for speed and fun for their own sake? I think this is why I see this sort of thing as a contrived dead end as far as the usually accepted hierarchy of climbing styles is concerned.
Post edited at 23:47
3
 jon 02 Nov 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this. Why is it wrong to climb something quickly if you are capable of it?In a day, in a push, not much difference except that it makes sense to do the maximum in daylight. So start predawn and hope to top out in the light. A push of 36 hours is going to be MUCH harder than a 24 hour one. Or a 15 hour one. Most folk who climb the NIAD don't sacrifice style or safety to do it. That's a strange way of seeing it.
In reply to jon:
> You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this.

Yes, I've always felt that speed for speed's sake in climbing is an odd thing. And that fun is not the be all and end all of climbing.

> Why is it wrong to climb something quickly if you are capable of it?

Not wrong. Just not very interesting in my opinion.

> A push of 36 hours is going to be MUCH harder than a 24 hour one.

What's wrong with stuff being hard?

> Most folk who climb the NIAD don't sacrifice style or safety to do it.

So most people are trying to free as much of it as they are capable of?
Post edited at 00:10
2
 Andy Gamisou 03 Nov 2017
In reply to ashtond6:
> Before you start spouting crap, why don't you check your facts?

> She was not on a speed record, just a standard NIAD. Which happens every day of the year.

This wasn't the impression I got from her interview with R&I.
Post edited at 06:34
 Michael Gordon 03 Nov 2017
In reply to jon:

> Yes but the Nose in a day is a logical thing to do, not artificial target time. No hauling all that crap, just the pleasure of climbing an iconic route as quickly and as efficiently as you can.

Exactly. Even if you were somewhere where it never got dark at that time of year, there's a limit to how long folk can keep climbing for without stopping to bivi. In fact pushing on to more like 36 hours is probably more likely to result in mistakes being made or falls taken. I thought 'in one push' might just mean a continuous ascent with no descending to the valley; modern alpinism could be described thus.
 Coolmax 03 Nov 2017
In reply to UKC News:

> US climbers Brad Gobright and Jim Reynolds have shaved four minutes off the previous record for climbing The Nose on El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, completing the Valley classic in two hours, nineteen minutes and forty-four seconds (2:19:44).

Climbing the Nose in just over 2 hours is amazing, as is doing it in a day, I'd be pleased just to get up it.

I'm not against people wanting to push themselves and finding ways to measure their achievement, which has always been at the root of climbing and something we all do in our own way. But what worries me is the way it's being reported "shaved four minutes off the previous record " as if the speed and the record is the most important thing. That's when it starts to get obsessive.

3
 Lemony 03 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

> That's when it starts to get obsessive.

Yeah, heaven forbid that climbers might get a bit obsessive about doing risky things - I hope that attitude never prevails in the british climbing scene.
In reply to Coolmax:

> That's when it starts to get obsessive.

I think you'll find that nobody becomes the best in the world at any form of climbing without being pretty obsessive about it. Whatever anyone might think of that particular form of climbing.

 john arran 03 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

> I'm not against people wanting to push themselves and finding ways to measure their achievement, which has always been at the root of climbing and something we all do in our own way. But what worries me is the way it's being reported "shaved four minutes off the previous record " as if the speed and the record is the most important thing. That's when it starts to get obsessive.

Would it be any different, in terms of danger or obsession, to an ascent reported as "led after removing all the fixed gear", other than the fact that you personally might approve of the motive in one case but not the other?
 jon 03 Nov 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

> > A push of 36 hours is going to be MUCH harder than a 24 hour one.

> What's wrong with stuff being hard?

Nothing, but deliberately take longer than necessary seems a rather artificial way of achieving that!
 timjones 03 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

> Climbing the Nose in just over 2 hours is amazing, as is doing it in a day, I'd be pleased just to get up it.

> I'm not against people wanting to push themselves and finding ways to measure their achievement, which has always been at the root of climbing and something we all do in our own way. But what worries me is the way it's being reported "shaved four minutes off the previous record " as if the speed and the record is the most important thing. That's when it starts to get obsessive.

Why is it any more obsessive than the pursuit of numbers via highly subjective grades?

Maybe time is a far better objective measure of ability?
 Coolmax 03 Nov 2017
In reply to timjones:

Yes "obsession" can result in good things but I'm not sure if that means "obsession" is good. It can also become unhealthy.

But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'm more concerned with the reporting that implies that doing something faster than someone else is the most important thing. It's the introduction of the competitive aspect into climbing that I don't personally like, but that just my opinion.



3
In reply to jon:

> Nothing, but deliberately take longer than necessary seems a rather artificial way of achieving that!

Of course, but I was talking about the seeming obsession with time to the detriment of style; climbing in good style may well mean taking longer - working out how to do or just doing a sequence free is often going to take more time than hauling on the peg or whatever in front of your nose. Having said that, there are obviously times when speed is necessary to climb in good style but that is generally going to apply to alpinism rather than big wall climbing.

There does seem to be an increasing preoccupation with speed for speed's sake judging by the way ascents are reported. And not just incidental - it's often to the nearest minute, so presumably these people are somewhat obsessively looking at their watches all the time. And then we get the "in a day" thing, or x number of big walls in a day or in successive days. A cynic might suspect that there's at least sometimes an element of producing easily understood headlines (or maybe they're just doing it for fun and the journalists are grabbing an easily understood headline). Personally, I find It far more arresting and impressive when I read that some top climber has spent absolutely ages climbing something because that indicates to me that it must be absolutely nails - The Dawn Wall being an obvious example.
3
 timjones 03 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

Climbing has always been competitive and the headlines online and in the glossies have always reflected that unavoidable fact.

Is this any different and how do you feel about it?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item/71344/first_female_9b_by_angy_eiter
 Michael Gordon 03 Nov 2017
In reply to Coolmax:

> I'm more concerned with the reporting that implies that doing something faster than someone else is the most important thing.

Kind of hard to report on speed records without giving that impression? But to be fair, at no point does the article say this is "better" than previous ascents, only quicker.


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