In reply to Nick BullockNick Bullock:
> Hi Mike, you are totally correct, my opinion is no more important than yours or anyone else's, but at the moment, in cases like this and until decided by the majority, my opinion is the one that we, as climbers, abide.
Thanks for the reply, but I am even more confused now Nick. First you appeared angry about the lack of a consensus, now you have changed this to a majority decision. They mean completely different things and are not easily interchangeable. It does not help me understand your point of view any better, the same applies to others on here intent on using the consensus method as colourful language.
You said that you did not believe that a consensus had taken place, I can say it has happened. I would also point out that just because you were not involved, it does not necessarily mean the process has failed. Maybe a more formal approach or a majority decision process connected with due diligence, mandates and minutes etc would be better. But really, this is business speak and I hope you agree, this is not actually where climbing should sit.
There have been many people who contributed to “crag discussions” at various Clwyd locations over the last 10yrs, not just about Craig Arthur, but for the area as a whole. Sure, this informal information has not been presented in this UKC news item, but it should not be dismissed, otherwise it only serves to demonstrate a lack of understanding for the last 10 years of history here.
It has not been just discussion either, there has been a great deal of effort from locals and some not so local, this has been complimented by Gary and has resulted in the area becoming more sustainable and is now an established venue recognised by today’s climbers. The area is still never “busy”, even on some glorious summer evenings this year, but the climbing has been transformed and receives more traffic now. I am not meaning to be disrespectful to Gary either, but even on the wrecked sport routes at Craig Arthur, he may have the final tick in the box as the FA, but he can not take all of the credit, or even all of the abuse. Sure some mistakes will occur, the same as with any other human activity, but these issues can be dealt with. This is no place for Tit for Tat actions, neither is it a way to settle what appears to be personal grievances.
Compromise, not conflict is what is needed to help the area evolve, otherwise this could push back time in Clwyd, not just 10 yrs, but 30 yrs to pre FA days if we are not careful. Lets not undo this work please.
Regards
Mike