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Today we are pleased to release the trailer for UKC's new feature-length documentary: Statement of Youth. The 1980's saw climbing standards rise exponentially. At the start of the decade, 7b+ was cutting edge, but by the end of the 80's 9a was the new world standard. By the end of the decade, the sport had changed beyond recognition and a paradigm was set for future generations.Read more
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In reply to UKC News:
Nice one Nick. Looks like it's going to be cracking.
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In reply to UKC News:
This looks so good!!!
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In reply to UKC News:
What makes this trailer event better is knowing that the guy dressed up as a policeman spent the whole day being mistaken for an actual policeman, taking regular breaks from filming in order to help tourists get around Llandudno.
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Looks awesome! When is it out?
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In reply to UKC News:
Really excited to see you're branching out in the movie business. Looking forward to seeing this and I hope it's the first of many.
In reply to UKC News:
here: youtube.com/watch?v=suClkvf6GsM& for anyone who, like me, wants to slap the guy who wrote the "You need to accept marketing cookies to view this content" crap
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In reply to UKC News:
Psyched for that!
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In reply to UKC News:
oooooh yes, can't wait for this.
The 2 best things in my life for sure climbing and the '80s
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In reply to UKC News:
This looks really good. Not sure the '80s was the birth of modern climbing though. Maybe the teenage years?
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In reply to jezb1: Well that makes 2 of us then. In the words of a certain 1980's Welsh comedian, "I know, cos' I was there."
Just not climbing like them unfortunately!
Post edited at 23:49
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In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:
> here: youtube.com/watch?v=suClkvf6GsM& for anyone who, like me, wants to slap the guy who wrote the "You need to accept marketing cookies to view this content" crap
You are still accepting them only we are polite enough (and correct) to ask.
Alan
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In reply to UKC News:
£37 a week, sign on fortnightly. Sorrrrted.
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In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
I think this a misuse of GDPR.
GDPR says you should have the right to opt out of marketing. I am pretty sure it also says that this should NOT be tied to receiving the service.
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In reply to RobertHepburn:
> GDPR says you should have the right to opt out of marketing. I am pretty sure it also says that this should NOT be tied to receiving the service.
The reality of ticking that box is that it has no effect whatsoever on what you receive from UKC. If you went to YouTube to watch the video, then you would be exposed to exactly the same if not more marketing cookies anyway. Only you wouldn't have been asked (or maybe you were years ago when you ticked a massive Google/YouTube T&C document).
It clearly states on the video that this is served by a 3rd party and that 3rd party WILL be setting cookies if the video iframe is loaded. GDPR states that we should get your approval before allowing them to do that.
We value your privacy and I think we are way ahead of what a lot of other sites do in this case.
Saying that, I've recently changed the way we handle this for YouTube and Vimeo embeds so these don't add the user tracking cookies and only require the Statistics cookies now. You'll only need to enable the Marketing ones to view Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter embeds and we have a few RedBull videos that will require them too.
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In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
Paul, is it normal to have to tick the box every time I want to watch a vid on here?
In reply to jon:
No, it shouldn't be required to re-check the box if you're viewing from the same device. Unless you're using Incognito mode or have emptied your internet history recently.
One thing to bear in mind though, on the news, article or gear post pages, the last-modified date of the content is sent, so hitting refresh in the browser won't actually fetch a new copy if the content hasn't actually changed. Even though I've changed the YouTube/Vimeo videos to use the Statistics cookie, if you've been on a post before, you'll still get the old content as the edit time of the post hasn't changed. I hope that makes sense. You'll have to force refresh to see the new content. You can force refresh on PCs by using Ctrl+F5 or Cmd+Shift+R on Mac Chrome.
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In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
I have to click it nearly every time on my phone and pc. Using Brave browser, not in private mode, haven't emptied history or cache.
In reply to Michael Gordon:
> Not sure the '80s was the birth of modern climbing though. Maybe the teenage years?
Well of course 'modern' is a vague term that could be interpreted in any number of different ways. But if it means how we climb today I think it's a reasonable claim.
The 80's brought in sport climbing, projecting and redpointing, headpointing and also escalated bouldering to a fully fledged sub-discipline of the sport. Competition climbing began back then along with the birth of modern climbing walls. Training ideas changed dramatically and campus boards, woodies, and fingerboards all came out of that era.
Things have developed considerably since then but it's more a matter of degree rather than any groundbreaking changes. I think it's fair to say that a lot if not, most of what we have today stems from the 80's.
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In reply to stp:
I tend to think of the 70s as when climbers started to properly train and with a different mindset to what had gone before. Standards shot up dramatically - arguably the biggest advances in standards in many areas were in the 70s, e.g. with crags going from E3 to E6 in terms of what was being put up.
From a sport climbing perspective I definitely agree with you. I probably associate headpointing and bouldering more with the 90s.
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In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
Given that I have (essentially) given up a long held habit of buying print outdoor magazines in favour of this site which I receive essentially for nothing I regard myself as being honour bound to accept your marketing for the service and entertainment which UKC provides me.
It rather mystifies me how my cookies repay anyone for the hours of watching, reading and debate I clock up over a year but as far as I'm concerned you're very welcome thanks.
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In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
Thanks for the reply Paul. Something weird is happening now - I just clicked on a crag that I moderate - Barberine Gietroz - and I got this: You need to accept preferences cookies to view this content - Change Consent.
Sorry for the hijack...
In reply to Michael Gordon:
> I tend to think of the 70s as when climbers started to properly train and with a different mindset to what had gone before. Standards shot up dramatically - arguably the biggest advances in standards in many areas were in the 70s, e.g. with crags going from E3 to E6 in terms of what was being put up.
Well if 3 E grades is your yardstick, then the 80s saw E6 to E9, which is a similar progression. But importantly, while trad grades were still racing ahead faster than ever, sport, bouldering and competitions were at the same time exploding as never before.
Such a progression, simultaneously both deep and wide, is unlikely ever to be seen again in climbing.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
> arguably the biggest advances in standards in many areas were in the 70s, e.g. with crags going from E3 to E6 in terms of what was being put up.
Since Goliath (E4) was climbed in the 50s and Green Death (E5) in the 60s this is clearly not true. The 70s saw an increase in standards of one E-grade (E5 to E6), similar to most decades before and since the 80s .
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In reply to flaneur:
Just so we don't get carried away too much with the idea of a 'magic' decade, we should perhaps remember the early milestones of British climbing [this is not meant to be strictly accurate, because these things are so difficult to define, but it's roughly right]: HVS 1910 (Herford), E1 1916 (Berg), E2 1945 (Preston), E3 1951 (Brown), E4 1958 (Whillans), E5 1969 (Proctor), E6 1978 (Fawcett) ...
Post edited at 00:49
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In reply to flaneur:
> Since Goliath (E4) was climbed in the 50s and Green Death (E5) in the 60s this is clearly not true. The 70s saw an increase in standards of one E-grade (E5 to E6), similar to most decades before and since the 80s .
I meant that at many crags there was a substantial increase in grade of routes being put up, though admittedly this wouldn't be correct at E6.
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In reply to john arran:
> Well if 3 E grades is your yardstick, then the 80s saw E6 to E9, which is a similar progression. But importantly, while trad grades were still racing ahead faster than ever, sport, bouldering and competitions were at the same time exploding as never before.
> Such a progression, simultaneously both deep and wide, is unlikely ever to be seen again in climbing.
All good points. I would still tend to think of the turn of the '70s seeing a quantum shift in people's approach to climbing, and what started there, yes, was built on and supercharged in the '80s.
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
E grade is maybe not a useful marker of generational progress. If you look at the effort part or the french grade the routes of the 70’s will reflect the training that Livesey and Fawcett started to develop which was mainly of the stamina ‘brick edge cruising’ type. The mid 80’s built on that with power training with Gullich and the campus board etc.
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In reply to SDM:
I haven't used Brave but from the info on their website it looks like it's probably blocking whatever is needed to save the preference. The overhead for loading ads on UKC is extremely small tho. Just use the native browser and you should be fine.
In reply to jon:
Can you submit a fault report please so I can see details about your browser?https://www.ukclimbing.com/general/email.php#fault
In reply to UKB Shark:
> E grade is maybe not a useful marker of generational progress. If you look at the effort part or the french grade the routes of the 70’s will reflect the training that Livesey and Fawcett started to develop which was mainly of the stamina ‘brick edge cruising’ type. The mid 80’s built on that with power training with Gullich and the campus board etc.
Yeah, well put.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I was in a pub a long time ago with Paul Nunn and Geoff Birtles discussing a similar timeline to yours:
> Just so we don't get carried away too much with the idea of a 'magic' decade, we should perhaps remember the early milestones of British climbing [this is not meant to be strictly accurate, because these things are so difficult to define, but it's roughly right]: HVS 1910 (Herford), E1 1916 (Berg), E2 1945 (Preston), E3 1951 (Brown), E4 1958 (Whillans), E5 1969 (Proctor), E6 1978 (Fawcett) ...
Geoff gave it some thought and said ‘makes you think doesn’t it? The lads before Ron and Tom really should have tried harder.....’ quality insight from Geoff
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In reply to pasbury:
God bless Margaret. Patron Saint of taxpayer funded 80s climbing.
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In reply to UKC News:
9A ? Who'd want to kill themselves on one of those when you can spend time in the boozer and then have an epic up a V diff? Dazed and confused!
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Was Cave Arête Indirect (E1 5b) given E1 at the time of the first ascent, or is this it's "modern" (upgraded) grade? I always thought that the E numbers didn't come in until later. I've wondered whether it was the first E1, or rather the oldest route that is now given E1. Either way, kudos to Berg, it's a brilliant route.
In reply to mrphilipoldham:
The XS grade was divided into E grades in the mid-1970s - for which we have to thank Lakes climber, Pete Botterill, if I recall correctly. I remember someone telling me, a few years previously, that the XS grade encompassed as many grades as those below it. And, with five E grades quickly popping out of the bag, they weren't so far off!
Grading cutting edge stuff in the first part of the twentieth century must have been an absolute nightmare. With generally dire protection, there would have been the fear that repeat attempts might end up with a fatality. Thankfully we have it so much easier now.
Mick
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In reply to mrphilipoldham:
> Was Cave Arête Indirect (E1 5b) given E1 at the time of the first ascent, or is this it's "modern" (upgraded) grade? I always thought that the E numbers didn't come in until later. I've wondered whether it was the first E1, or rather the oldest route that is now given E1. Either way, kudos to Berg, it's a brilliant route.
Of course this is the modern grade. In the 1948 guide it was given 'Severe'! I seconded it about 25 years ago, and found it well deserving of E1, and a lot harder than it looked. I had been told it was 'E1 5a' and protested that it was 5b. I see now that the guide gives it 5b. The incredible thing is that Berg soloed it on sight (Schanning famous photos). Very high ball, with an appalling landing (steep, bouldery slope) - if not death, certainly very serious injury ...
Edit: Sorry, correction. Have looked it up in my logbook. I actually failed to second it ... I think I was unfit in midst of doing my photographic books ... excuses ...
Post edited at 10:59
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Severe..!! Lovely.
I led it ground up earlier this year, having gotten a bit lost and tried to go up then left from the spike rather than just left. Went feet first back in to the cave to give my belayer a good kick in the nads. One of us laughed..
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In reply to UKC News:
When's it out? Looks fun.
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In reply to David Alcock:
> When's it out? Looks fun.
The film will premiere at Kendal Mountain Festival and then will be free to view on UKC.
http://www.mountainfest.co.uk/
Post edited at 09:35
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All this talk about grade progression through the ages ignores the progressions/evolution made in climbing CULTURE - surely at least as important.
Yes they probably have a symbiotic relationship, and surely the biggest step change in climbing culture was the appearance for first sport climbing, and then gyms. This not only brought the masses in but drove the grades up and introduced commercialism, arguably moving climber funding from the dole to the sponsors! (Thatcher ultimately won??).
Not sure really what the relationship to any given decade this has, though I suppose the punk aesthetic generally encouraged a new look at things with a corresponding rejection of tradition.
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In reply to schroeds:
Sssshhhhh! Don't give too much away!
In reply to Michael Gordon:
True, but also sticky boots (Fire's), chalk and Wild Country Friends also helped. When I went from EB's to Fire's my technical grade immediately went up. With Friends and chalk, my fear factor went down.
Lycra may have helped too
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In reply to UKC News:
I would also add that Whillans and Brown were climbing in the little black gym shoes from Woolworths, or rigid mountain boots. And carrying peg hammers and pitons. Nuts were...just nuts, on a sling.
The gear improvements make a huge difference. Imagine Whillans in modern climbing boots, with a rack of friends and sporting lycra....on the other hand, maybe not the lycra. Step too far?
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In reply to flash635:
Yes, a massive difference in how gear has influenced climbing standards over the years. This I believe is the prime reason for why levels skyrocketed in the '80s but any increases have been gradual since then. Although gear (particularly rock shoes) is better now than it was then, this has mainly been relatively small adjustments (e.g. solid-stemmed vs modern cams) rather than huge innovations.
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In reply to flash635:
Remember, Joe did Great Slab at Froggatt on sight, in 1951, with no protection and in Woolworth's plimsolls.
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In reply to webbo:
You can't – well, not until the good holds arrive, just below the top.
In reply to UKC News:
Hey guys. Do you know the name of the band from intro song of the movie?
In reply to Nick Brown - UKC:
Full movie - intro
In reply to Nick Brown - UKC:
Yeah! Thanks a lot!!!! Can't wait to touch a rock after this film next season!
In reply to UKC News:
This movie looks great! I know it was premiered at Kendal, is it available for the general public yet? Thanks
John
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In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
> The film will premiere at Kendal Mountain Festival and then will be free to view on UKC.
Has this been released yet? The KMF screening didn't have any tickets remaining when I tried to book and haven't heard anything since then.
James
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In reply to James Malloch:
Hi James,
Nick (Brown) is off on holiday this week, but I've forwarded a link to this thread so that he can respond directly upon his return.
In short, we've got a few plans in/around the launch, including various screenings at climbing walls across the country, plus an official 'premiere' in Sheffield. After that there'll be a two day exclusive to BMC members, after which it'll be available for all to see. I would anticipate this would be in/around April/May, but obvioulsy there's still a few details to be ironed out, so watch this space...
I promise it'll be worth the wait!
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> Remember, Joe did Great Slab at Froggatt on sight, in 1951, with no protection and in Woolworth's plimsolls.
Nowadays we have rubbers but no protection. A satisfying oxymoron.
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> Just so we don't get carried away too much with the idea of a 'magic' decade, we should perhaps remember the early milestones of British climbing [this is not meant to be strictly accurate, because these things are so difficult to define, but it's roughly right]: HVS 1910 (Herford), E1 1916 (Berg), E2 1945 (Preston), E3 1951 (Brown), E4 1958 (Whillans), E5 1969 (Proctor), E6 1978 (Fawcett) ...
Demon Rib at Black Rock is given E3 today and was 1949 courtesy of the legendary Mr Harding.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Was it significantly easier then though? Like browns eliminate, crispy flakes eroding and snapping over time? Or is that a spanner in the mythologising
In reply to Toccata:
Tony Moulam Hardings second gave him a hands on spot in order for him to do the crux starting moves.
In reply to UKC News:
Just re-read the text on the story page.
The film will premiere at Kendal Mountain Festival and then will be free to view on UKC.
Any idea when please?
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
See Rob's reply above https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/statement_of_youth_trailer-694647?v=1...
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In reply to webbo:
> Tony Moulam Hardings second gave him a hands on spot in order for him to do the crux starting moves.
In Tony's own words:
"Peter led the route in fine style, aided only by my hand in the small of his back for the first move. I followed with rather more difficulty. "
In reply to Toccata:
Big Ron, Slip n Slide E6 and 1976 FA in the latest guide
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