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NEW ARTICLE: The Sport Climbing World Cup

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 Michael Ryan 04 Jul 2006
Who is the best? Who climbs the hardest? These are common questions from the mouths and keystrokes of climbers these days. If there was one, which country would win the Sport Climbing World Cup? Portugal wouldn't stand a chance? Brazil wouldn't even qualify. Surely the French and the Germans must stand a chance as they invented the beautiful sport climbing game? England has a strong team, the brash young Rich Simpson, the enigmatic John Gaskins all held together by the vast experience of the team captain, Steve McClure. We must have a fighting chance with these climbing crusaders, all three have climbed the magic 9a and maybe harder. Time to unfurl the St.George cross, crack the Bud open, read the pre-match analysis in the Daily Mail and switch channels from Big Brother to the big game.

Read on

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=158
 Norrie Muir 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> Who is the best?

Dear Mick

Sir Christian Bonnington.

Norrie
 tobyfk 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> Stamina Band, Pump Up The Power, Raven Tor 9a

<pedantry>

This is a boulder problem linked into a route, right? If you exclude this the UK drops below the US ... which sounds correct'ish. If you include it, what about other stamina problems like Dai Koyamada's links in Japan and Australia?

</pedantry>
 tony 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> England has a strong team, the brash young Rich Simpson, the enigmatic John Gaskins all held together by the vast experience of the team captain, Steve McClure.

Pah! Bring on Si O'Conor, doing it for the Western Isles!
squeek 04 Jul 2006
In reply to tobyfk:

But if you take it out and add Total Eclipse at 9a then it's the same.
 Chris Fryer 04 Jul 2006
In reply to tobyfk:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> [...]
>
> <pedantry>
>
> This is a boulder problem linked into a route, right? If you exclude this the UK drops below the US ...

Isn't Akira the same thing? A boulder problem linked into a route?
 tobyfk 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Chris Fryer:

From what I remember from the photos, it's a long initial ceiling problem protected by mats/ spotters which turns into a bolted up-route. But I don't think the route can be reached by an easier alternative. ie it isn't contrived in that sense.
 Chris Fryer 04 Jul 2006
In reply to tobyfk: Given the size of the ceiling (of a cave?) and the difficulty given to the grade of said climbing, I'm sure there must be easier alternatives traversing in to the start of the roped climbing, but don't quote me on it.
 Fiend 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Chris Fryer & toby:

Good points. If an article is going to be this nerdy about standards and stuff (not a bad thing!) then it should be very clear about where the boundaries are drawn.

What about The Fly as a highball, what about Huber's 9a routes in Germany (Om at least)?
 Paul B 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Chris Fryer: Akira was done using a step ladder to work the various roof sections of the start, its not miles from the ground but you cant just pull on anywhere thats for certain. It was bouldered out to the lip of the cave where a rope was clipped and the final section done, I think theres an article on fred rouhling kicking around that explains this. Dont know if it was done when pads were around?
 Pauline 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
switch channels from Big Brother to the big game.
>
ok so is this televised then... and if so when cos i skimmed the article and didnt find a date, channel or time!
OP Michael Ryan 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Fiend:
> (In reply to Chris Fryer & toby)
>
> Good points. If an article is going to be this nerdy about standards and stuff (not a bad thing!) then it should be very clear about where the boundaries are drawn.


But then the nerds would have nothing to be nerdy about......and what would they do then?

Go climbing perhaps?
 tobyfk 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> But then the nerds would have nothing to be nerdy about......and what would they do then?
> Go climbing perhaps?

Anyone with a properly equipped home should be able to do both ...

Anyway, what on earth is the point of publishing this out-of-date article if not for the nerderati to comment?

 tobyfk 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Fiend:

> What about The Fly as a highball, what about Huber's 9a routes in Germany (Om at least)?

Dreamcatcher .. etc

Kipper 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Chris Fryer:
> (In reply to tobyfk) Given the size of the ceiling (of a cave?) and the difficulty given to the grade of said climbing, I'm sure there must be easier alternatives traversing in to the start of the roped climbing, but don't quote me on it.

I don't think you'll get anywhere near the start of the 'climb' by other methods.

I'm still claiming the only UK attempt at Akira

OP Michael Ryan 04 Jul 2006
In reply to tobyfk:
> (In reply to Fiend)
>
> [...]
>
> Dreamcatcher .. etc

That's more like it Toby.....look it as a nearly complete crossword puzzle. Let the trainspotters, anoraks, nerds etc fill in the gaps.

OP Michael Ryan 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Fiend and Toby:

Give me the beta and I will update and adjust the rankings.

Do we delete Stamina Band, Pump Up The Power and Akira?

Add Total Eclipse, Coup De Grace and Dreamcatcher?

Any others?

Mick





 Norrie Muir 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to Fiend and Toby)
>
> Give me the beta and I will update and adjust the rankings.
>
Dear Mick

Was your article onlt the draft copy?

Norrie
OP Michael Ryan 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Norrie Muir:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
> Dear Mick
>
> Was your article onlt the draft copy?

No Norrie...the article was written by the editors of Gripped, a Canadian magazine, it was published last October. As explained in my preamble, we left it as is. We can now update it together.

Which Christian Bonnington 9a+ would you like us to include?
 Norrie Muir 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)

> Which Christian Bonnington 9a+ would you like us to include?

Dear Mick

It is alleged that Si O'Connor has an unconfirmed 9a+ or even harder Sports Route called Sir Christian Bonnington.

Once Si finishes his 9b project, he is going to call it "Walter Mitty was Here", that should also be considered.

Norrie
OP Michael Ryan 04 Jul 2006
In reply to Norrie Muir:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)

> Once Si finishes his 9b project, he is going to call it "Walter Mitty was Here", that should also be considered.


Let's get Fiend and Toby on the case.

Mick
 robin mueller 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> Any others?
>
> Mick

Although there's a photo of A Muerte, it's not actually listed.
 robin mueller 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Fiend:

> If an article is going to be this nerdy about standards and stuff (not a bad thing!) then it should be very clear about where the boundaries are drawn.

Too right. Akira, Pilgrimmage and Wheel of Life all deserve route grades and places on this list. They are all stamina fests of the highest order.

Some more on Akira, before it gets dismissed:

> The line runs from the deepest corner of the cave directly out to the mouth. It is sixty-five feet long and rises perhaps ten vertical feet over that length. You can reach any point on the first forty-five feet of the route with a four-foot stepladder, which is exactly what Rouhling did in 1995.

> For three consecutive months, he worked out the unrelenting dynamic bouldering movement. Pinches, slopers, crimps, and pockets lead to a jug rest near the lip of the roof where, on “redpoint,” Rouhling was handed a rope to lead the last fifteen feet of climbing.

There's a long tradition of giving route grades to stamina problems. Boulderers are understandably irked when people claim these atypical problems are the pinnacle of bouldering achievement; really they are far more akin to routes - differing only by being far more accessible and involving less fiddling with string and metal (which surely is only supposed to be a means to an end).
 Chris Fryer 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to Fiend)
> [...]
>
>
> But then the nerds would have nothing to be nerdy about......and what would they do then?
>
> Go climbing perhaps?

I would love to go climbing Mick, but some of us have to sit in an office to earn a living. Wouldn't waste my personal time on here.

OP Michael Ryan 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Chris Fryer:

It'll soon be the weekend Chris.
 Chris Fryer 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Weekend? 5 o clock Mick, 5 o clock. the secliffs are only 10 minutes away.
OP Michael Ryan 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Chris Fryer:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) Weekend? 5 o clock Mick, 5 o clock. the secliffs are only 10 minutes away.

Excellent.....I've just got in from Brownstones...chalk still on my hands.

Now where are those nerds....Fiend and Toby?
 TimB 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Mick,

Akira should stay in. FR first did it as a complete route, rather than as a boulder problem with extension. There's even some quote from him (in the Climbing article?) where he says that if he was doing it today, he'd only go to the lip and stop - doing it as a pure boulder problem instead of a route.

The Fly should also stay in for similar reasons - it's only regarded as a highball now after considerable improvement of the landing, and the ground-breaking actions of Jason Kehl.
Anonymous 05 Jul 2006
In reply to TimB:

So if I do Pump up the Power/Stamina band, but tie in to climb PUTP, it's a route, but if I reverse the easy bit and drop off it's a boulder?
 robin mueller 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> Excellent.....I've just got in from Brownstones...chalk still on my hands.

Didn't realise you were a Brownstones regular. How was it? Hot weather for small holds.
 tobyfk 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Nothing else to add after Dreamcatcher. I've shot my bolt, so to speak ...

You need some euro-nerds. I am sure there are other omissions in your Spain/France/ Italy/ etc lists.
 Cliff Hanger 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

As long as it didn't go to penalties...
 TimB 05 Jul 2006
In reply to TimB:

Right then, after a few minutes with this nerdtastical search facility http://www.8a.nu/site2/search2.php

The article is missing the following (Grade, Name, Crag, Country, FA)

9a -- Karachi -- Biccyu -- Japan -- Yuji Hirayama
9a -- P'antheon part.2 -- Chli Schijen -- Switzerland? -- Stephan Schibli
9a -- Brissago extra -- Chli Schijen -- Switzerland? -- Stephan Schibli
9a -- La Chimère -- Saint Loup -- Switzerland -- Frederic Nicole
9a+ -- Coup de Grace -- Ticino -- Switzerland -- Dave Graham
9a -- travers de la enmiend -- Santa Linya -- Spain -- Dani Andrada
9a -- barrakito puro y dur -- sant llorent de mont -- Spain -- Dani Andrada
9a -- overblomu -- Santana -- Spain -- Dani Andrada
9a -- Esperanza -- Colmenar -- Spain -- Dani Andrada
9a -- el intento -- cuenca -- Spain -- Dani Andrada
9a -- Esclatamasters -- Perles -- Spain -- Ramón Julian Puigblanque (Ramonet)
9a -- A Muerte -- Siurana -- Spain -- Richard Simpson
9a -- Estado critico -- Siurana -- Spain -- Ramón Julian Puigblanque (Ramonet)
9a -- Drumtime -- Fonzaso -- Italy -- Riccardo Scarian
9a -- Unplugged -- Frankenjura -- Germany -- Markus Bock
9a -- 9 eme porte -- la fontaine -- France (Reunion Island) -- Greg Sobczak
9a -- Big hammer -- Pinswang -- Austria -- Christian Bindhammer
9a -- Mongo -- Schleier Wasserfall -- Austria -- Markus Bendler
9a -- Maître Vauban und der Basilisk -- Höllental -- Austria -- Arthur Kubista

and

9a -- Mandallaz Drive -- Allonzier la Caille -- France -- Fred Rouhling
 robin mueller 05 Jul 2006
In reply to TimB:

Also, Chilam Balam was proposed as 9b+, not 9b.

Just looking at 8a - has this man really soloed 8c+?

http://www.8a.nu/site2/?IncPage=http://www.8a.nu/cgi-bin/scorecard/show.cgi?view=9814&page=5
OP Michael Ryan 05 Jul 2006
In reply to TimB:

Bloody hell Tim, good effort. Got some more via emails.

Got my work cut out there.

Brownstones! It were great Robin...nice friendly holds, excellent moves, nice height, cool temps, early morning sesh, got bit by a mozzy....off to the Chew Valley with the Thaw tonight to do some roped stuff.

M
 smithaldo 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I know it is not your article, but surely this is like saying who would win a world cup by having the biggest stadiums, as it is the players/Climbers who play in the world cup, not the venues/Climbs.

Which country would win it with climbers?
TimS 05 Jul 2006
In reply to smithaldo: Spain still probably. Andrada, Josune and the Basque climbers seem to climb very hard routes very regularly.
Anonymous 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Need to be careful: some of those have already been downgraded to 8c+, including Underground, Drumtime and a few others.
OP Michael Ryan 05 Jul 2006
In reply to smithaldo:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> I know it is not your article, but surely this is like saying who would win a world cup by having the biggest stadiums, as it is the players/Climbers who play in the world cup, not the venues/Climbs.
>
> Which country would win it with climbers?

We could work that out as well when we've updated the list with the info above.

And we shall.

Mick

 smithaldo 05 Jul 2006
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Very good,

But will you use the fifa ranking system, which would bias american climbers as they only go on rubbish ;0) crags or english climbers? After all didnt we invent the dammed sport and didnt we win the world cup ages ago! therefore we have a divine right to win it and jonny foreigner cheats anyway.


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