UKC

Amen.

Hard Drive looks amazing.

By coincidence I just finished congealing years of nerding into a list of good newer routes in Scotland, which features all the mentioned routes put up by Dave, among many others: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=3730

That's quite some list! There are more routes we filmed for Undiscovered (although not all made the final cut of the film) but all would most definitely be 3 stars anywhere! I'll try and get some photos of them up on UKC soon

Old Boy Racer - Old Boy Racer (E8 7a)

Rainbow Warrior - Rainbow Warrior (8b)

Lithium - Lithium (f8B+)

Mega Bracket - Mega Bracket (Mega Kagikakko) (E7 6c)

From the Depths - From the Depths (E6 6c)

Hard to argue that there isn't lots of new routes still left to do in the UK.....

Glen Pean has been an open secret for many years. I tried new-routing there (somewhere west of Pean bothy) in about 1986 with Paget Pugh. I was about half way up the first pitch when there was a sound like the world was ending. I fell off in shock. A couple of RAF Tornados were heading off into the distance at head height, and I was left with a taste of jet-fuel in my mouth.

We bagged it, and I never went back.

Steve

"8B+ boulder first ascents, sport route first ascents up to 9a and new Scottish mixed routes up to XI,11 (M9+/M10) were subsequently added to his list."

The Hurting was before Rhapsody; 2005 as I recall, which seems well ahead of its time...

Any idea what type of rock it is, especially on the huge crag featuring 'The Crossing'?

I think that particular crag is Trondhjemite (no, I'd never heard of it either!). Caveat: I am no geologist, but having climbed there I checked out an old geological map online. It's gorgeous rock, very Gneiss like. The many other boulders and crags further east,up the glen,are Moine series. Hopefully someone who actually knows their geology could give a better account, I'd love to know.

Since when did Echo Wall have a grade? Has Dave said outright he thinks it's E11?

Thinking of getting on it?

Just the weather stopping me really, so hard to catch it in condition.

Who cares? Whether it has a grade pinned to it or not is pretty much academic.

Though I guess it's possible that if he had come out and announced it to be E12, it might have slightly increased the tiny chance it has of ever getting repeated.

I walked that way years ago heading for Oban bothy and was very impressed by the remote glen running down towards Loch Morar.  Boulders as big as houses as I recall and lots of rock a long way from anywhere

The reason I'm querying it is that the article states, as fact, that the route is E11 and as far as I know this has never been suggested outright by DM.

I agree that the mystery is not a problem in itself.

To be fair, if someone refuses to grade something but says it's harder than the hardest route in the country (and has the track record to be taken seriously!) then since E12 hasn't been suggested, keeping it at E11 would be a sensible position for guidebook writers to adopt. The same presumably goes for commentators.

Funnily enough, the snow patch above echo wall was huge the year Dave went for it (2011?)

In 2012 by mid June there was basically no snow above.

2008

11 years ago !!! - time flies

Maybe the snow patch never recovered from Dave's shovelling

I'm not 100% sure of the rock in Glen Pean, I had assumed it was Gneiss but perhaps not. I can attest to it being incredible sharp though, Dave stumbled going between some boulders and managed to lacerate his palm on a particularly large crystal, pretty gnarly!

As far as I was aware it was similar to a lot of the West Highlands, Glenfinnan-ish northward, a rock similar in some ways to schist except less metamorphosed, so retains more graininess of the original sedimentary structure. (rock type psammite and pelite). Not a geologist though! 

Had a look at the geological map and there's a large intrusion of something else in that lower part of Glen Pean, not sure what it would look like on the ground.

http://mapapps.bgs.ac.uk/geologyofbritain3d/index.html

This excellent site suggests "Leucotonalite, pegmatitic" to me (igneous rather than metamorphic), but I'm not a geologist either. Nor am I exactly sure where the Crossing crag is - just estimating from the photo and maps -and there are several other possibilities, including the psammite and pelite you suggest.

Whatever the rock may be called by the experts, I think we can all agree that it's a brilliant looking crag.

Not wishing to labour a tangential point, but since my previous remark is attracting downturned thumbs perhaps I should clarify what I mean.

Whether Dave has said Echo Wall is E11 or not (he may have done, either in public or to Natalie in private, I don't know) doesn't really matter. I doubt Dave himself cares at this stage if it's written up with a grade or not - check out his comments recently about giving Mind Riot E10, even though he thinks it might be harder than Rhapsody. With these routes that are pushing off the top end of the scale, it's clearly hard to judge, and regarding the FA's best guess as 'fact' fairly meaningless. But if people want a number, they may as well pick a sensible one and have it.

I've taken a look at that map and the crag with The Crossing on it (should get Dave to give that crag a name!) is definitely in the Leucotonalite, pegmatic band. Interestingly it looks like some of the crags in the glen might have different rock types. It really is hard to believe how much there is to do there, easily 1000 trad routes...

Hi,

That's a great resourse, far better than what I was referencing. Doubtlessly it provides up to date classifications. The 'Crossing' crag is located in the Minor Intrusion Suite -Leucotonalite, pegmatitic area. As Kev said, the other crags are in various psammite and pelite group areas.

A quick search showed leucotonalite has been classed with trondhjemite, but that's as much as I could fathom from those older references!

Whatever the geology, as you say, it's a unique rock to climb on, all the better to reward it's remoteness.

Cheers, Iain.

Have a good one on AM next time?

In the SMC Journal entry for The Crossing the crag is called Splitter Crag.

Cheers Iain. I'm OK with the new terminology for Trondhjemite on that site I linked to, but I'm less pleased to learn that good, old-fashioned central belt dolerite is now seemingly "Midland Valley Sill-complex,  Quartz-microgabbro." Don't suppose it'll help me get up AM either!

Ha, Dolerite..... no more. A sad day for the central belt. That new version doesn't trip of the tongue so easily, although maybe the slopers will feel grippier as amicrogabbro.

Cheers, Iain