/ NEWS: Who owns a sport route? Nalle vs. Chris Sharma

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
UKC News - on 03 Apr 2010
[Muhammad Ali, 2 kb]A storm is brewing, if not in full effect, between two of the world's best sport climbers/boulderers over what could be the hardest sport route in the world so far.

News reports have been written on many climbing websites and both climbers involved have written and published long essays stating their perspective about the controversy.

The disagreement occurred between the Finnish climber Nalle Hukkataival and Chris Sharma - perhaps the most famous climber of all time - at Margalef, Spain over a new route.

Mick Ryan reports at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=52754

Alasdair Fulton - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Quiet news day then...
1
bouldery bits - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Fultonius:

Disagree. Seems like a well structured and relevant article that poses a very interesting question.

I don't really know where I stand on this, although I don't climb hard enough to have to poach routes!
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Fultonius: Not as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
In reply to bouldery bits: The article is quite an interesting read but the first line is misleading.

To quote one of the antagonists "Chris's point of view is very understandable and although I am against red-tagging, I respected his wish. My intention is not to wage war with anyone or make anyone feel bad, I just want to climb and have fun.

This was not the end of the world for me and there's so much good climbing in Catalunya, that you're never going to run out of routes to try."

A storm brewing? More like it just petered out.
jon on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

He could of course bolt his own project and stop sulking.
David Bulley - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to jon:

Wasn't Sharma ever taught to share? lol
Wrongfoot on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Fultonius:

I couldn't disagree more... For starters this isn't so much News and a current topical comment piece. Secondly this is really interesting stuff, climbing business interests getting upset about climbers having the temerity to attempt publicised projects!!! Not sure I like that at all.

Have Dave and Danni made some gentleman's agreement not to climb the route but to be primed for the 2nd ascent? Is that going to be worth anything anyway?

I appreciate the commitment to bolting a line rather than attempting a boulder problem or trad route, but clearly at this grade it's not the bolting that's holding up the ascent but working the project. I suspect the time and work involved in bolting the line is insignificant in comparison. Why is it so important then? If 99% of the effort is working the route then why does the 1% effort of bolting the line justify a completely different approach to sport routes? Seems inconsistent to me.

Yes it's tough on the guy who 1st spied the line and then bolted it to have his ascent snaffled by another, but if it's really all about learning the route and training for the moves then I'd say "them's the breaks".

Also if you don't want to draw the attention of Finnish climbers don't pre-publicise an ascent. If you want to whip up interest then it seems fair to expect competition.
Michael Ryan - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
> (In reply to bouldery bits)

> A storm brewing? More like it just petered out.

Hardly.

Anyways, this funny.

Unaware of the controversy this no doubt will cause, Adam Ondra has returned to Cataluña and made a quick FA of what used to be the First round, first minute project, now renamed To je vtip. Adam says it all went a whole lot easier than he had expected, giving it 8c+/9a. More about this later!

http://bjornpohl.blogspot.com/2010/04/ondra-climbs-frfmto-je-vtip.html

I'm outa here.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: shame about the date.
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: very good article, its an interesting argument. I'm definitely on mr Hukkataival side for this one though, you can hardly own a piece of rock, even if you are chris sharma.
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15: There are no sides, Nalle agreed to respect Chris's wishes, he could have just ignored him and tried it anyway.
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to @ndyM@rsh@ll: yeah that was what was said publicly....
Chris Craggs - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

It is pretty obviously Sharma's project, until he gets bored with it. The crux(!) of the matter appears to be that he is happy to allow his mates a play on it but not an outsider?


Chris
Wrongfoot on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Just a thought. Could such shenanigans have implications for access?

I don't know who owns Catalunya? Or what the access arrangements are in Spain? Or whether H & S law is similar to that in the UK?

However I can imagine the following scenario...

...if the landowner considered that Sharma and Nalle's rivalry over their percieved ownership of a route on his land could put them at risk, then presumably he could exclude both of them on the grounds of his H & S duty and civil liability, or confiscate their equipment (that certainly seemed to apply to base jumpers in Yellowstone - at least in the past?) or he could simply de-bolt the line? Do access rights go as far as a right to bolt rather than a right to climb?

Of course none of this is likely to happen, but it does rather put this little issue into perspective... 2 fleas arguing who owns the dog - if they become enough of a nusiance might the law support a landowner's decision to take their toys away?
Serpico on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Wrongfoot:
Have you actually read beyond Mick's (as per usual) sensationalist headline? Neither of them is claiming ownership of the rock or the route, Sharma has simply requested that after spending time, money and effort into cleaning and equipping this line that he is afforded a little more time to try it. Dave and Dani were on the route to bring fresh beta to help Chris.
Wrongfoot on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Serpico:
> Have you actually read beyond Mick's (as per usual) sensationalist headline?

Of course I have, that was why I suggested it as an imagined scenario not a real one. What part of "imagine" and "not likely to happen" do you find difficult to understand?

As a little thought experiment it seemed to make clear to me how stupid and counter-productive arguments over perceived ownership of a route could be. The only owner recognised in UK law is the landowner, and the landowner has particular liablities and duties which don't sit well with sparring climbers.
Franco Cookson on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Can't we rely on climbers being gentlemen and not knicking each others routes?

Projects I find I try and do as quickly as possible. If someone else finds them it's fair game. If I tell them then it's a bit unfriendly for them to go and nick them. If someone did steal a project I was doing i'd be a bit miffed, but just find something harder that they had no hope of doing. It's all possitive compition really.
Bulls Crack - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

I don't really care. No-one actually owns any of this so its up to them to sort it out between them
Silum - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Lame non-story.

Bunch of bullshit posturing surrounding a conversation... reading what they ACTUALLY said makes this article look positively ridiculous.
Chris Shorter - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

> Unaware of the controversy this no doubt will cause, Adam Ondra has returned to Cataluña and made a quick FA of what used to be the First round, first minute project, now renamed To je vtip.

Perhaps he is aware and his route name is his comment on the controversy as it means somthing like "It's a joke" or "It's stupid"!
mark s - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Silum:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Lame non-story.
>
> Bunch of bullshit posturing surrounding a conversation... reading what they ACTUALLY said makes this article look positively ridiculous.

So positively ridiculous you still had to comment?

Don't think sharma can really say no one can try it,after all he has more projects on the go.letting other climber mates try it is keeping it has his own little boys club.sounds like big-up productions are having a big say it.
jlowell on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Hi Mick,

Just to clarify a couple small points:

I was not intending to discount everyone's opinion who is not a bolter or FA'ist, only to emphasize that the perceived conflict had been greatly and somewhat viciously escalated by people who were not directly involved. I definitely respect everyone's right to express an opinion, particularly on the broader general questions regarding the concept of red-tagging.

Also, the sales numbers cited and the implied dollar amounts are overstated and might give a false impression that we are making piles of money off this business. In fact we spend about half our time producing outside commercial projects and doing freelance shooting and editing work to help supplement the income from the climbing work and keep the climbing film side of the business sustainable.

Just trying to keep the conversation accurate and constructive.

Thanks,
Josh Lowell
Big UP
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Chris Shorter: No, it's a reference to how that particular little bit of the story is an april fools joke :P
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15: I guess you're right, as everyone knows, no one can ever be trusted to tell the truth, and everything you read in all media everywhere is lies. Except for some bloke in the pub of course.
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to @ndyM@rsh@ll: Yes, when I made that single statement, I was actually commenting on every news paper and broadcast in the world, amazingly perceptive of you to pick up on that from one statement.
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15: Well what's your reason for distrusting that in this case then? Because without a reason i have to assume that you'll apply the "we're being lied to" logic to everything.
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to @ndyM@rsh@ll: The kind of politics that surrounds these sort of issues in all sports, those involved real opinions don't usually tend to come out until after the fuss has died away a bit, I wasn't commenting on the media in general.
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15: I guess i prefer to take a less cynical view of top end climbing compared to other sports, though i am probably too naive.
grizz - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

"Chris Sharma - perhaps the most famous climber of all time"

doesn't float my boat. aren't most of his routes on bolts. should be ron fawcett
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz: Ron who?
portlandclimber - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to jlowell:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Hi Mick,
>
> Just to clarify a couple small points:
>
> I was not intending to discount everyone's opinion who is not a bolter or FA'ist, only to emphasize that the perceived conflict had been greatly and somewhat viciously escalated by people who were not directly involved. I definitely respect everyone's right to express an opinion, particularly on the broader general questions regarding the concept of red-tagging.
>
> Also, the sales numbers cited and the implied dollar amounts are overstated and might give a false impression that we are making piles of money off this business. In fact we spend about half our time producing outside commercial projects and doing freelance shooting and editing work to help supplement the income from the climbing work and keep the climbing film side of the business sustainable.
>
> Just trying to keep the conversation accurate and constructive.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh Lowell
> Big UP


ouch Mick. didn't see that one coming.
kroolis77 on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:
no they are on rock, and its good quality and suprise suprise not green and/or with vegetation on it:D
grizz - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15:

that's disgraceful. he's a really good veteran fell runner. read the fra journal
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz: Funny I haven't seen him in any climbing DVD's, he can't be that good ;)
JSA - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15:

I'm not sure he's in any dvd's and Betamax was before your time! ;o)
grizz - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15:

saw a great thing at stanage once. we were at the popular end with loads of climbers chatting and climbing away and all of a sudden it went very, very quiet. i was a bit puzzled suddenly realising that ron fawcett had turned up and was just doing a bit of afternoon soloing. bet sharma wouldn't have that affect
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz: yeah, maybe your right, but i asked one of my non-climbing mates to name a climber I bet he'd say Sharma, he certainly gets the most media coverage.
Bulls Crack - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15:


All a rather pointless argument.
Rob15 - on 03 Apr 2010
In reply to Bulls Crack: depends what your definition of pointless is. What would you like us to argue/debate?
johncoxmysteriously - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

You gotta laugh at Sharma saying this bit of rock is 'really important to his personal development'. Like it would suddenly cease to be important to his personal development if someone else found it was important to their pesonal development first.

I don't care much about who makes the FAs of clip-ups anyway, but hypocrisy on that scale is always worth a laugh. Thanks, Mick.

jcm
Bleedingknuckles - on 04 Apr 2010
"You gotta laugh at Sharma saying this bit of rock is 'really important to his personal development'. Like it would suddenly cease to be important to his personal development if someone else found it was important"

Amen!

murdster on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:

HA HA HA HA HA... AHA HA HA HA HA HA... that is funny...

Don't be ridiculous!

Anyway, apart from the fact that UKC is trying desperately to concoct a story here, this is how I see it.
Sharma has found the line, spent time and MONEY bolting it, Nalle Hukkataival should go away and try something else.
Stop crying.

Also, that photo of him is hilarious!! Has he just shit his pants?
Serpico on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> You gotta laugh at Sharma saying this bit of rock is 'really important to his personal development'. Like it would suddenly cease to be important to his personal development if someone else found it was important to their pesonal development first.
>

The full, accurate, quote is " I was so close to do the route which for me is a really important line in my personal progression "
this makes it clear that he's talking about physical progression as a climber, your misquote implies something else.

Wee Davie - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Sounds pretty cut and dried to me. Sharma spends x amount of time on this and hasn't given up on it yet. Why would Nalle decide to try it under the cicumstances? So he gets miffed that Dave Graham and Dani Andrada are allowed on it- it's clear to me that they are allowed on to help assist the project.
If I bolted a new line the last thing I would be up for is for some random to come along and attempt to nick it....
It is selfish, but if you've spent a day hanging and bolting a line it's a simple matter of respect for other climbers not to not trespass on it until you're done with it/ climbed it.
Jerry Handren - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
The irony is that earlier in his career Sharma was only too happy to knobble other peoples projects. Notably Hasta La Vista in the Compton Cave at Mt Charleston, Yaniro had toiled hard to set that route up and really wanted Sharma to lay of it...but to no avail.

Then, as now, the issue is not ownership..you should give yourself a little slap on the wrist for phrasing it that way Mick.....the issue is about respecting the enormous amount of effort that it takes to establish routes.

Though I have to say that in the light of Sharmas previous activity, he's the last person who should be crying foul now.
boje on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:
Chris Sharma - perhaps the most famous climber of all time.
Give me a break !
What about Whymper, Mallory, Heckmair, Buhl, Hillary, Tensing, Brown, Whillans, Bonatti and Messner ? Just a few names that come to mind !
boje on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:
PS - I missed out Bonington !
Trangia on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to boje:
> (In reply to UKC News)
> PS - I missed out Bonington !
>
and Shipton, Evans (Menlove), Kirkus, Longland, Winthrop Young, Herford, Paley, Venables
Trangia on 04 Apr 2010
In reply boje:

And if you are talking about the general public then it would be:-

Mallory and Irvine, Hillary and Tensing, Bonnington, "That French woman"(Catherine Destivelle) and Brian Blessed
grizz - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Bulls Crack:

i don't think it's a pointless argumnent. coincidentally i've met the daughter of the fella who put up Bulls Crack.
grizz - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to boje:

you're mixing climbers up with mountaineers. the discussion becomes really broad at that point.
Trangia on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:
> (In reply to boje)
>
> you're mixing climbers up with mountaineers. >

Is there a difference? Most mountaineers climb, but not all (rock) climbers mountaineer. Is that what you mean?

johncoxmysteriously - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Serpico:

I'm not sure how him using the expression 'personal progression' makes it clear that it's his physical progression he's talking about. If that's what he meant you'd have thought even a Californian could have said 'physical progression'.

Anyway, whatever he said it's pretty clear that what he meant is "I was so close to do the route [FIRST] which for me is a really important line in my personal [CAREER]", but that he thought some psychobabble would sound better.

jcm
Wrongfoot on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

I miss Redhead and Dunne. They'd have simply climbed whatever they chose and damn the opinions of anyone else...

Shame there's no-one at the top level with a similar attitude now.
grizz - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Trangia:

yep there is a difference. this article is about a rock climber. I suppose you could split hairs and narrow that down further to the best bolt climber. Rock Climbing and Mountaineering are two different pursuits
grizz - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Wrongfoot:

there are people still like them doing incredibly dangerous and hard trad routes but the press seems to be favouring bolt climbers. it gets my goat.
jon on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:

Depends if you applaud difficulty or mindless danger I suppose.
grizz - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to jon:

it's not mindless. it's a small percentage of people like the people at the top end of any olympic sport who have unique abilities....control of the mind being one of them.
jon on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:

If you say so.
Wrongfoot on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:
> It's not mindless. it's a small percentage of people like the people at the top end of any olympic sport who have unique abilities....control of the mind being one of them.

You might wonder whether the attitude to route ownership is influenced by the mindset of a person climbing mainly hard trad vs the mindset of a person climbing mainly sport routes.

A good brush with mortality tends to put things into perspective for many...
Karl Bromelow on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:


Ali first puts Liston down 1 minute and 44 seconds into the fight and the ref stops it at about 2 minutes and 15 seconds. It's the third minute at worst and second minute at best then isn't it? I truly am sadly pedantic aren't I?
Rob15 - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Karl Bromelow: yes.
orge - on 04 Apr 2010
In reply to Wrongfoot:
> I miss Redhead and Dunne. They'd have simply climbed whatever they chose and damn the opinions of anyone else...

I'd like to have seen Sharma ask one of them to leave it! Maybe Stevie should get over there? ;)

J
boje on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:
I do know the definition of the word climber - but to make sure I checked it out on Wikipedia.
''Climber - a participant in the activity of climbing''
It goes on to give 13 climbing activities which include : bouldering, competition, ice, mountaineering and rock. Doesn't actually say sport but I'll include it anyway.
Chris Sharma was introduced in the article as a sport climber / boulderer and this is probably what he is. The statement that I questioned was of his being the most famous ''climber'' of all time.
All those names that I suggested were great and famous '' climbers'' and if I had to pick one that was the most famous of all it would have to be Ed Hillary.
boje on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Trangia:
See my reply to Grizz
Yanis Nayu - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Seems ridiculous to me that someone can "baggsy" an unclimbed line. Surely , if nothing else, the fear of it being nabbed by someone else would be a good motivator.
Enty - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to wayno265:
> (In reply to UKC News) Seems ridiculous to me that someone can "baggsy" an unclimbed line.

Sort of - but what about seeing the line first, then spending time and money on cleaning and equipping? Surely it's polite to give the equipper time to get the FA.

Enty
ksjs - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: all irrelevant anyway as Adam Ondra will come along and do it in a day or something thus putting things into perspective
jon on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to ksjs:

I thought he had...
ksjs - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Karl Bromelow: brilliant
ksjs - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to jon: i hadnt read the thread when i posted that - apologies. but (unless im mis-understanding something) does somebody not suggest that this was an april fool's day joke ie Adam hasnt done it?
Quarryboy - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Most rocks including limestone have probably been there for 100,s if not 1000,s of years they are not owned by anyone in this state and anyone has the right to climb on them if they wish to. I think that Chris has some nerve trying to prevent an individual climber from trying a route which he had initially discovered and has not even completed yet and allows other climbers such as Dave Graham try it. if there is such a thing as owning a route surly it is once you have made the first free ascent of it.
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to quarryboy: The "ownership", or at least the right to ask reasonably for others to stay off it, develops with the time and effort (and money) put into cleaning the line, equipping the line and then working out how to actually cimb the thing, which can take ages and shouldn't be disregarded, it's a lot easier for someone else to come along and just ask how.
John Dunne on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: World class routes are a finite resouce so just putting a bit of time and money into it does not mean you have right to it.
What's wrong with a bit of good old route rustling.

How do you expect the next generation to challenge the likes of Sharma and Ondra if it's frowned upon.

My rational was allways bolt a project and try like hell to do it before some body else did.


Rant over
Enty - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to J Dunne:

Bloody hell have they got t'interweb all the way up Orpierre?

Enty
John Dunne on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Enty: Hell Enty your as sad as me.
What's the weather like over there?
Tobias at Home - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to J Dunne: funnily enough i was justing thinking about stone monkey..."you cannot win them all.."

re: the OP, will Big Up still put this route in a DVD?
Serpico on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to J Dunne:
> (In reply to UKC News) World class routes are a finite resouce so just putting a bit of time and money into it does not mean you have right to it.
> What's wrong with a bit of good old route rustling.
>
> How do you expect the next generation to challenge the likes of Sharma and Ondra if it's frowned upon.
>
> My rational was allways bolt a project and try like hell to do it before some body else did.
>

That's the predator's point of view, I imagine the prey sees things differently.

Tobias at Home - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Serpico: personally, i think in this sort of situation, between two world-class climbers on a route at the cutting edge, the predator is just showing a bit of panache and style. especially when the route was going to feature in a dvd selling the sharma image.

i'd imagine sharma is more p!ssed that someone was physically able to climb it before him rather than the fact that the route was red-tagged.
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Tobias at Home:

> i'd imagine sharma is more p!ssed that someone was physically able to climb it before him rather than the fact that the route was red-tagged.

Was?
ladislav - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Rob15:

I just went and asked a bunch of non-climbing mates to name a climber, and got the following answers:

* Chris Bonington
* "That tosser off Touching the Void"
* "Leo whatshisface"
* David Lee Roth.

David Lee Roth does climb, apparently: his bio (at http://www.davidleeroth.com/bio/david-lee-roth.php) says "Now an accomplished outdoorsman and climber, Roth has led many trips into the Himalayas, New Guinea, the Amazon, and the South Pacific." You learn something new every day.
Rob15 - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to ladislav: haha, funny you should say that, I was about to post on hear saying what my non-climbing mates had said, and they came up with:

Chris Bonnington
Chris Sharma
Dan Varian (he went to the same school as me).
The guy who fell in touching the void.

Tobias at Home - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to @ndyM@rsh@ll:
> (In reply to Tobias at Home)
>
> [...]
>
> Was?

? surely once a route has been climbed it is no longer red-tagged??
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 05 Apr 2010
In reply to Tobias at Home: It hasn't been climbed.
skullgrid on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to ladislav:

Did the same. Out of 4 all had heard of Hillary & Tenzing and "that guy who climbs all them buildings" aka Alain Robert. The rest of the score:

dudes from Top Gear episode (Houlding and Emmett) 2
Joe Simpson 1
David Lee Roth 1 (yes)
Heinrich Harrer 1
Aleister Crowley 1

Alain Robert gets press coverage wherever he climbs so worldwide he might be the most well-known, although few people could tell you his name.
chris j on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to skullgrid: Another one who still gets a frequent mention from non-climbers of a certain age is "that French burd who does it free without ropes or nuffin", presumably Catherine Destivelle. Even though I don´t think she´s been in the news for quite a while she seems to have stuck in the memory of a lot of middle aged blokes out there.
ladislav - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to chris j:

I can't imagine why

I also had a late mention of Etti Hendrawati.
Enty - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to J Dunne:
> (In reply to Enty) Hell Enty your as sad as me.
> What's the weather like over there?

Crackin't flags here near Buis - bizzarely enough though we might be driving over there to Orp.

Enty

Michael Ryan - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

To those who think that that the above somehow happened on the 'internet'. Well no it really happened, between two people, in daylight, at a real crag, below a cliff with some bolts drilled for protection following an overhanging line of poor holds. It was started by a blog post. Then transferred to outside, then the incident was then expressed by real people, including the two protagonists, on the 'internet'.
------------------------------------------------------------

Now this is what didn't happen.

This is on the internet, this is made up (although I did write it in my office after a bouldering session at Stanage last night, that bit is real).

------------------------------------------------------------

Nalle: Hi Chris, Wassup? Great to meet you and great to be down here away from the frozen North. How's it going?

Chris: Hi Nalle. It's going well. Welcome to Cataluña. I love it here. Great to meet you. I've heard so much about you. Want to hang out?

Nalle: Would love to.

Chris: Meet Dave and Dani and the rest of the crew.

Nalle: Hi everyone. Looks a great route Chris. How's it going on it?

Chris: Frustrating. I've got redpoint swamp. Keep coming back, keep falling off the last move. I really want to do this route. I read on your blog that you would like a go on it.

Nalle: Yes I'd love too. Would that be OK?

Chris: That's fine, be my guest. Dani and Dave have been trying it too. More the merrier. I'll belay you if you like.

Nalle: That's really kind of you Chris. Thank you. I would love the opportunity. If by chance I'm getting close, I won't even consider a red point attempt.

Chris: That's kind of you Nalle. It means a lot to me this route. I remember last Fall looking at it, spying the non-holds and thinking that it might just be possible for me. Then bolting it, didn't take much actually. It was hard work, but not like proper work like hanging a door or changing a car engine, you know, a proper job.


- they spend several hours working the route that soon will become First Round, First Minute -

Chris: Good effort Nalle. What do you think of the moves?

Nalle: I don't know Chris. That's hard. I bit beyond me at the moment. I can see it, but wow! You are doing great on it, won't be long now.

Chris: Thanks Nalle. Really good to have a strong and talented climber like you on it and to get your opinion. Fancy coming back to my place tonight? Dave is making paella, he''s a great cook. There will be music later. It will be good to chill.

Nalle: Would love to. Thanks Chris. Be a great end to my holiday. Got to go home in a few days. Got some great projects in Finland. If you ever fancy it, you'd be welcome at my home and we could work some of the unclimbed boulders I've found in the forests.

Chris: Cool dude

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I for one am looking forward to Chris Sharma completing this climb and I will watch/buy the film by Big Up of him doing it when it is available.

It's a great climbing story. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion sometime. Adds colour and richness to our pastime. People are far too sensitive these days. Always makes me laugh that if you question or take the piss some call one a 'hater'

I blame the schools or the parents!

Onward,

Mick
Serpico on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Was there any point to any of that?
Michael Ryan - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to Serpico:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> Was there any point to any of that?

You are Eeyore the donkey and I claim my £10.

Serpico on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to Serpico)
> [...]
>
> You are Eeyore the donkey and I claim my £10.

It's all about the money with you isn't it?
Michael Ryan - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to Serpico:

It's about love, passion, spirit and Winnie the Pooh.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: keep taking the tablets Mick.

Certainly a lot of banter (esp. from Anonymous) on Bjorns blog.
Michael Ryan - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

It's the tea. I shouldn't have put two bags in.

Now where's my honey?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat)
>
>
> Now where's my honey?

He's in Sheffield n'est-ce pas?

And to all suggesting other brilliant climbers - you missed out Mary Woodbridge.

Michael Ryan - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

The lovely Mary.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=42404
grizz - on 06 Apr 2010
In reply to boje:

i still think there is a difference between a climber and a mountaineer. Different things go through the mind of somebody sat in the death zone for a night and somebody doing a 7a move above marginal gear
boje on 07 Apr 2010
In reply to grizz:
Hello Grizz - don't want to get too pedantic here but I thought I had defined the word climber. We are all climbers - from top roping at Burbage and Harrisons to climbing the Eiger or Nanga Parbat.
Add the word sport or even rock to the first sentence and I quite agree with you.
However, all this is beside the point- my original letter questioned the description of Sharma as the most FAMOUS climber of all time.
whispering nic - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to boje: This isn't sport climbing or bouldering and is somewhat more engaging than shuffling up a snow slope somewhere remote...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5IWojf3Cno
jimtitt - on 22 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:
Life is simpler down in punterland where I climb! If I bolt a route I get the bolt credit anyway which is the more important, if I can´t climb it it´s a free project, if I could climb it but haven´t yet anyone can come and do it in the meantime but their name will never appear in the guidebook!
Bruce Hooker - on 22 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

> Chris Sharma - perhaps the most famous climber of all time....

Off subject I know, but is this true? Seems unlikely.
Bruce Hooker - on 22 Apr 2010
In reply to boje:

Sorry, I hadn't read all the thread!

You beat me to it.

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.