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Are Gaz Parry routes hard or everyone elses soft?

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Gaz has been setting at our local wall and I can’t do any of them lol

Will give me something to train for in my newborn enforced exile.

1
 Iamgregp 17 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

Depends which setter you compare them to!?!?

I like really Gaz's routes though, they're never soft in the grade and so there's an extra kudos to climbing... 

I think they're often a bit more "thinky" than other setters too so a bit harder to onsight as there's mental challenge to solving the puzzle as well as the physical one.  I'll always go for his routes over most other setters if he's been to my local wall.

Genuine conversation with a mate:

"I just onsighted that 6b!"

"And?" [shrugs]

"Its a Gaz Parry 6b"

"Oh fair play then man!  Good effort"

Post edited at 18:14

In wreply to Iamgregp:

> Genuine conversation with a mate:

> "I just onsighted that 6b!"

> "And?" [shrugs]

> "Its a Gaz Parry 6b"

> "Oh fair play then man!  Good effort"

I rest my case lol

 Iamgregp 17 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

Ha!

Like I said, they’re never soft…
 

 ianstevens 17 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

Nothing is ever hard for the grade, you’re just shit

3
In reply to ianstevens:

I am but I’m sure some routes can be hard for the grade. If only someone would come up with a climbing specific word for it

In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

Bag full of fine aggregate has a good ring to it. I'll call it that!

In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

I think he set some routes at Ratho a few years ago. They seemed awkward and cruxy compared with the flowing masterpieces we were used to and seemed to fall into disuse.

8
 wbo2 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:  A couple of times our local wall has been completely reset after a world cup, and that's always been an interesting experience.  Hard for the grade , or just correct?

 TheGeneralist 18 Jan 2022

I think there's a key point here.  If Gaz's routes are more interesting, complex and thought provoking than others' then that's great.

But if it's just that they are routinely  wrongly graded then he should sort it out and grade them properly.

I remember a similar thing in Yosemite/Tuolomne where certain climbers were venerated because all their routes were really, really hard for the grade.  Load of bullshit really, just give the damn thing the right grade.

In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

Depends what you are used to and good at. Bit like outdoor, some can power through overhanging muggy routes, others don’t have the strength. However switch to a slab of same grade, and the one who can’t do juggy routes may shine on technical balance routes whilst the other one struggles.

Post edited at 10:40
 PaulJepson 18 Jan 2022
In reply to ianstevens:

I think indoor routes (particularly lower grade routes) are often all over the place and typically take a bit of time to settle. The setters are often climbing >8a so it's not at all surprising if they don't know that someone climbing 6a will simply not be able to hold that crimp. At the walls I go to it is not uncommon to think 'Jesus, that's the hardest V4 ever' and then the next time you go there are a couple more holds added to it and what was once impossible is now fine. 

I personally find it great, as I'll typically not bother even trying V6 or above but if a V4/5 utterly spanks me then it helps me progress. 

 wbo2 18 Jan 2022
In reply to TheGeneralist:  Given Gaz's experience I'd expect them to be a bit more thought provoking than more inexperienced setters. 

It is of course possible that Gaz's grades are correct, and local grading is a little 'encouraging' - I have another local wall I can go to and fully expect to flash 2 grades harder than normal

In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

I'd like to see some of the people flashing V5 on the wrong kind of 6As on rock. Annoying people with their youth and strength

In reply to PaulJepson:

> I think indoor routes (particularly lower grade routes) are often all over the place

They seemingly only get Gaz to do the 7b/c/8a but really the thread was meant to be tongue in cheek - i mean it’s such a hard job and hats off to them for him (and all the other setters) for putting up such interesting things for us to climb!

 Cobra_Head 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

Which wall, he used to do ours and I always found them about right.

They're all over the place now, 6c = 6a+ for a couple of routes!

 Iamgregp 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Cobra_Head:

I think his were always about right too... Like I said, they're never a soft touch

You climb a Gaz Parry 6c then it's a 6c minimum no ifs or buts imho.

 nniff 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

I've found that they are not of the 'tear up the dotted line' variety (Emma Alsford is from the same school).

It's also not unusual to find a route that is 6c if you've got 7c strength

1
 Mike Stretford 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I think he set some routes at Ratho a few years ago. They seemed awkward and cruxy compared with the flowing masterpieces we were used to and seemed to fall into disuse.

This used to annoy me when I rope climbed inside..... just not what I wanted when training inside. I appreciate others want a variety of routes but a label 'cruxy' would be useful, so you don't spoil a warm-up.

3
In reply to TheGeneralist:

> But if it's just that they are routinely  wrongly graded then he should sort it out and grade them properly.

What, and break with one of the finest traditions of climbing?

 Cobra_Head 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Twiggy Diablo:

A bit off topic, so I might start a new thread, but do most places have a "hard" move on routes.

I've noticed lately a couple of hard last move routes creeping in at a number of walls, not particularly what I want, when climbing indoors.

Edit have started a new thread to pick setters "brains"

Post edited at 14:49
 PaulJepson 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Cobra_Head:

A few walls I've climbed at often have a distinct crux, usually somewhere between 2/3rds of the way up and the top, to allow for safe falls. I'd say the current wall I climb at has 50% 'sustained interest' routes and 50% cruxy. 

In reply to Mike Stretford:

> This used to annoy me when I rope climbed inside..... just not what I wanted when training inside. I appreciate others want a variety of routes but a label 'cruxy' would be useful, so you don't spoil a warm-up.

Yes, I am surprised I got all the (unexplained) "dislikes". Obviously almost all routes will have a technical crux (or cruxes) and probably a "redpoint crux", but what seems pointless are routes where the crux is so well defined and harder then the rest of the route that it might as well have been set as a boulder problem without the need to waste time (but little effort) on the rest of the route. Such routes are a waste of training space; good training routes are sustained, technical and pumpy (which is what we are lucky enough to mostly get at Ratho).

But the routes I was referring to were worse than that - the crux was not just well defined, but awkward and unpleasant rather than technical - the sort of "snatchy" thing you might injure yourself on when cranking away fatigued while training, which is the last thing you want on an indoor wall (and why the routes got little traffic).

3
 CMcBain 18 Jan 2022
In reply to Robert Durran:

>...good training routes are sustained, technical and pumpy (which is what we are lucky enough to mostly get at Ratho).

Agree about disproportionately hard boulder cruxes on routes but I never understand the above statement which seems a common complaint about setting at a few walls I visit.

Is everyone these days training for 20-30m enduro pitches in <insert euro sport venue here>? Because it's pretty rare to find climbing like that in Scotland (not sure about rUK), ironically most of the mid-higher grade trad and sport I've done tends to be reasonably basic climbing interspersed with hard bouldery sequences. If we're talking about training for that it would seem to be more useful to be a boulderer that can recover on easy climbing rather than an enduro beast that can climb the same difficulty of move for 20m.

Never climbed any of Gaz's routes so cant comment on that. Agree with the above about variety though. An observation I've noticed over the years is that people's enjoyment of routes often seems linked to how difficult they feel they 'should' find them. It seems easy to critique routes that I fall off and easy to be filled with praise for routes I flash/onsight - my ego is a fragile thing it would seem.

In reply to CMcBain:

> Is everyone these days training for 20-30m enduro pitches in ?

Well yes, a lot of people are!

> it's pretty rare to find climbing like that in Scotland (not sure about rUK), ironically most of the mid-higher grade trad and sport I've done tends to be reasonably basic climbing interspersed with hard bouldery sequences. If we're talking about training for that it would seem to be more useful to be a boulderer that can recover on easy climbing rather than an enduro beast that can climb the same difficulty of move for 20m.

I actually agree with you, but I don't think routes should have easy sections between bouldery sections because the easy bits are a waste of space. What I do really like on a good training route are a few shake outs (but not too good though!) between harder sections - I think this replicates many trad (and sport) routes very well; shaking out and recovering is such an important ability. So you could think of such routes as bouldery sections between rests, but they are still sustained in the sense that they have no easy moves for the grade.

Post edited at 23:11
 Cobra_Head 19 Jan 2022
In reply to CMcBain:

> >...good training routes are sustained, technical and pumpy (which is what we are lucky enough to mostly get at Ratho).

> Agree about disproportionately hard boulder cruxes on routes but I never understand the above statement which seems a common complaint about setting at a few walls I visit.

> Is everyone these days training for 20-30m enduro pitches in

No but if you can do these indoors then, you'll be sorted for when you do go outdoors.

Our wall is only 15m high at it's highest, and half is 12m max, so "training" if you like is limited to this height unless you climb them more than once, which I'm not keen on.

If I want hard single moves then I'd go bouldering.

Mainly what I'm after is a route which makes me think, throws you about a bit, flows and is consistent. I don't mind a bit of weird, but not a fan of hard last moves, dyno last moves or a large variation in difficulty.


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