UKC

Hi. 

Does anybody have any ideas when climbing walls will be allowed to reopen?

I am not sure if it worth purchasing a pull up bar and suspension trainer. 

Sav

No. Nobody does. 

Funnily enough I was just wondering earlier - though more along the lines of how they'll work if there's any degree of distancing policy still in place. It wouldn't be impossible for them to operate, but it'll be difficult to enforce 2m separation, and I can imagine some staff getting twitchy about potentially exposing themselves to infection for a leisure activity. 
I suppose waivers could maybe be required, but that still wouldn't address the possibility of a climber, who had accepted the risks, getting infected, then going on to unknowingly infect others, who wouldn't have done.

At one time, the LCC group had an idea only letting some people in at a time using an acquired slots on an online booking system as walls do with classes.

Perhaps walls could only have some areas open. 

Are you talking about the other people becoming infected from touching the holds or the droplet way?

Perhaps climbers can only be allowed to enter if they are carrying disinfectant wipes or purchase them from the wall and have their temperature taken by staff.

S

Waivers aren't going to cut the mustard.  The issue isn't individuals determining their own risk, it's who they might spread it to.  I am personally not overly scared of me catching it, but my behaviour is being driven by the possibility that by catching it I could spread it to many others and potentially kill them.

I would say it is unlikely they (and similar indoor leisure venues, e.g. gyms) will open until social distancing can be fully stopped - so that could be easily not until a vaccine.  Outdoor climbing can probably resume a little sooner but not for a while yet.

Managing numbers through online booking (and possibly dynamic pricing?) and removing routes from adjacent panels might help it be a *little* sooner, though.

Buy a pull up bar.

It's gonna be a while pal, buy the training equipment if I were you

Thanks I am thinking of getting one that I can do wide grip pull ups on and that is easily put up and taken down. 

Thanks mate. Keen to do so and to construct a campus board to.

By the time the walls open I will be super strong! 

I am not sure about myself as I am 41 (42 in August) and I am overweight - trying to get it loose some during these uncertain times isn't that hard.

Social distancing: Also maybe a more testing and temperatures checks.

In regards to oline booking and time slots the LCC group had that idea but they scrapped it. 

Outdoor climbing: I don't mind getting to the rock before the wall - perhaps that can be included as outdoor exercise.

S

Yes, I'm taking advantage of this situation to do plenty of running and cycling locally, and of the fact that going to the shop just for a choccy bar is not in the spirit of the restrictions, and hopefully shift some of the lard that I've picked up over the past year or so.

I do have a pullup bar but I'm too fat to use it at the moment!

I got for long-ish works to my local lake everyday and also do yoga, IYT and bitd dogs.

What kind is your pull up bar?

I go to the supermarket on Saturdays to get the papers etc but I wear a mouth and nose mask - I didn't go today though.

I was told to do pull ups on a BMC coach education workshop.  

Sav

Bought it from Argos ages ago, I think it was about 10-15 quid.  Not sure what make I'm afraid.

By the time the walls open I will be super lardy - and probably very old too

I found this article on Instagram. 

https://gym.vertical-life.info/articles/covid-19-risk-mitigation-in-climbin...

S

Not me. I have already lost 4 lb since the lockdown.

Poor you. 

Sadly, it's not looking any closer tonight, judging by the world news today (I'm referring particularly to the situation in Japan.)

I didn't see anything in the news about Japan.

The ITV news was about Trump and state governors. I saw about the protests! 

My gut feeling is it will be the back end of the year at least before things like gym's open up again, I can see places like climbing wall having the same sort of restrictions. 

I hope not. 

I read it will be pubs that will be the last to open. 

Do you think it could be up to The BMC, ABC and MTA that will decide when they can reopen? 

It's come right back in Japan in the last couple of days, a month after they lifted their emergency measures having had an apparently huge success in reducing their death toll to about 8 a day. It's very disturbing because they've been fantastically strict about checking people coming into the country, so it implies that invisible, asymptomatic carriers within the country have been passing it on, one to another in a chain. Very scary.

I have read that asymptomatic people can pass it on but I saw on the news that it is rare and unlikely that asymptomatic people can pass it on.

I knew it has come back in China but some of the cases come from Russia when people return it from Russia going back to China. 

I'm talking about what's just happened in Japan. It's very worrying.

There’s something not right about their figures from day one. My guess is they were playing it down for the Olympics. 

Yes, probably. And understandably, when you think what's at stake for them.

Nope. Neither the BMC, ABC, MTA, CIA, FBI, TPF, RSPCA or the BBC have anything to do with the operation of private businesses. Bugger all to do with them. Furlough, government rules and individual wall owners choice/decision.

The Olympics have been postponed till next year. 

i really wouldnt worry about a campus board if as you say you are over weight. your fingers will not take it. it will be far beyond what you need. you will be far better off just concentrating on losing weight and increasing general fitness.

I don't worry about campus board but I have used it before to train Power Endurance at many walls.

I do have strong fingers. 

I am 5ft 9ins and 12st 12lb with a muscly build.

S

I have raad that the Furlough scheme will last till June. 

It’s worth reading about lessons to be learnt from the Spanish flu pandemic when restrictions were lifted too soon and led to a second deadlier wave.

They have now. They weren’t in the early days. 

I can't imagine the Government will pronounce specifically on climbing walls.  They will at some point reopen "indoor leisure venues such as gyms", a description under which climbing walls fit.  It will then be up to the companies that own and operate them to make their own decision, though no doubt the likes of ABC and the BMC will also advise.

Presumably the attitude of customers and staff will also have to be taken into account. It's all very well the walls doing their best to cater to new attitudes to hygiene and distancing, but if a certain percentage of users aren't willing to return it's going to be difficult for the walls to operate as viable businesses 

Surely we all have the ability to determine our own risk and make the choice to either stop at home or accept the risk and go out?

Some reading to do before my new book comes. 

Yes and most of the Ifsc comps have also  been postponed 

The tabloids reporting on the “secret” traffic light system are suggesting 15th of June for reopening of gym like things. Take it with a pinch of salt but who knows, perhaps it’ll turn out to be true...

Better hope you have strong elbows too.

Also true.  Stuff like the online booking idea will help this - I often climb(ed) at lunchtime and I'd know that Big Rock would have about 5-10 people in the whole centre - other than the risk of spread via holds it would be relatively easy to distance.  Whereas I might be less happy to go on a Tuesday night (why Tuesday I have no idea) when it's utterly heaving.

That would be so if it would only be you that caught it, rather than potentially spreading it to more vulnerable people.  I put it in a similar bracket to road use in a way - if driving at 150mph 2" off someone's bumper in your Beemer, or drink driving or something would only kill you, be my guest, but the problem is that it might kill someone else too, be that someone you meet, someone in your household, or a doctor/nurse that has to care for you.

If only it *was* like that!  I would be happy to take the risk myself, but I am not happy to make that decision on behalf of others.

I always warm up and  prepare my elbows and shoulders before any kind of campus work. 

Dolphin Pose and Dolphin Plank are great for elbow strength. 

I also do IYT and other suspension trainer/gymnast rings exercises before campus board stuff. 

Good news if it is true!

If true, less than two months away. 

I have heard about the traffic light system and I know pubs and bars will be the last places to reopen. 

I suppose they may reopen but if a sizeable portion of us still perceive those environments to be be risky, we will stay away and the business will be unviable.

I have looked it up on Google and it has been reported in many tabloids.

In that case it must be true...

 reply to Mountain Spirit:

Hi, I've lost 6 pounds so far, mainly due to not being able to go the pub. My partner reckons I'm saving £30 per week, and a shed full more not driving to the crags.

Probably hankering for a pay rise

I didn't say it was true, just said I hope it is true. 

Well Michael Gove has denied it. I think they are waiting till this three week extension is over to decide the best option. 

. 

Hi, that is great! I have lost the same amount of weight abs hoping to loose around 2lb a week. 

I don't drink alcohol but I do go the restaurant bar at the accommodation I am staying out when I am outdoor climbing or on a coach education workshop. When I did my CWI training at The Beacon, the guesthouse I stayed in didn't have a bar or restaurant so ate at the highly recommended Black Boy Inn. 

Sav

That is why we need to work out ways of allowing people who are classed as vulnerable or maybe people that are risk averse to shield themselves without keeping the entire country on an unsustainable standstill.  There may  be people who are classed as vulnerable that don't want to be shut up indefinitely.

I think it very understandable that some old people that feel that way - if you feel you've only got a few years left you might really not want to spend one locked away from the activities and people you love. 

The shielding is purely advice, it is not legislation and is not likely to become so (because unlike the general lockdown it *is* primarily about the individual rather than everyone, though it could have a minor effect on NHS bed availability), and specifically includes in said advice that people who don't have long to live (e.g. cancer patients) may quite viably choose to disregard it in order to ensure a higher quality of a remaining short period of life.

Without compulsory identity it's basically unenforceable even if it *was* law.

It's a shame we went the complex way of furlough etc rather than Universal Basic Income, that way those who are scared (including a lot of shop workers) could choose not to work, and those who want to work but can't because they are furloughed could choose to take those jobs.  It strikes me that we've got a load of people who are unhappy to work but feeling forced to, and a load more who are happy to work (getting stir-crazy at home) but effectively forced not to, and that can meet in the middle.

Sadly there is no simple way of doing it.

If we moved to a scheme which allowed those who are more fearful rathet than vulnerable to be supported there would almost certainly need to be some fairly onerous and intrusive monitoring to make sure that they weren't exploiting the system and those who were prepared to work.  A voluntary lockdown with support would have to be a rigerous lockdown with no exceptions.

Sav, 

Your profile says you have climbed 2 diffs. I do hope you have done more if going on about campus boarding. Something doesnt add up. Using a campus effectively you would be climbing upper 6 on to 7s and above for both bolted and boulders. 

Ive seen your posts and you are beyond keen, at your level general fitness will be such a better use of time for you. Maybe if your fingers are as strong as you say and you are doing 1-3-5 easily. Then maybe other training is needed if diff is your max.

Theres a lot of people on here with lots of experience and can help you. 

There is more to Sav than meets the eye. His heart,however is in the right place so bare with him.  

I can understand it, it doesn't mean you have to act on what you want to do. Why inflict, or at least take the risk, of inflicting this on someone else?

Because some people want to live rather than hiding away in fear?

If we can allow those that want to live the freedom to do so whilst protecting those who dont want to get on with their lives surely everyone wins?

Mark, 

I have been out with two other people from here but the problems I did with them were unlisted, ungraded and unnamed.

I think I just need to get out more - impossible at the moment though.

I have lost a further 2lbs and now weigh 12 stone 10 pounds - on the way to a healthy weight.

I have had my gear placements assessed two times and they were scored 3 out of 4.

S

Thanks. Very true. 

Have you read my blog posts on Word Press? 

Occasionally.

Someone read them tonight!

A bit of an update:

I have heard from RavensWall and they the manager told me the ABC are looking into all the aspects of being able to open.

S

Interesting news. Wonder if they mean opening up centres before end of June (as mentioned by others this is apparently when gyms will be allowed open again)

Yes it is interesting news and I wonder the same. I can email the ABC. 

Are you referring to the traffic light scheme that has been leaked to the press? 

S

Yep, it says gyms around June. Honestly think i could handle everything going on at the moment if i could just go and climb once a week. Miss it so much.

If you do email them please let us know what they say, i'd be very interested in their response

I have emailed them but forgot to ask about when will walls reopen.  

I have now asked them about reopening dates. 

S 

Why do you still persist with this illusion that the ABC run climbing walls? They're a trade body. That's all.

This is what Paul at RavensWall told me - that's all. 

Just let them get on with what they’re doing, I’m sure they’re busy enough doing what they’re doing without random people emailing.

They won’t be able to tell you anything useful, nobody can.

Get stuck in to some home training to be in the best shape you can be ready for when we can all go climbing again.

I have been doing some home training including yoga and going for a walk with a weighted ruck sack.

Equipment wise is the risk of transmission very low?....

.... I ask as I am planning to buy a pull up and asuspension trainer or gymnast rings.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/coronavirus-delivery-package-mail-...

S

It's not that simple, given the option all my guys and girls would be in work rather that sat at home but I don't have the work for them to do and as my offices and workshop are only small I don't have the facility to maintain social distancing to keep people safe. 

Universal credit will put it in the hands of employees to decide who works and who doesn't but the employees are mostly not in full knowledge of the facts, it's up to the business owners and managers to decide who needs to be in and who can go on Furlough (obviously medical / shielding removes the decision from everyone)

I have one lad in along with myself, he was chosen because he has the most versatile skill set and it was discussed with him before hand, he is happy to be in (starting late and finishing early) so he is not crawling the walls but also because he understands the importance of what we do and he is happy to do his part. 

I'd say that it is every bit as simple as that.  Any interaction between people such as employment has always required negotiation and communication between both parties and Covid does not change that.

It's also worth pointing out that I was thinking about life as a whole rather than work alone.

In work or in life some people are team players and some are not, I'm very lucky that my most versatile guy is also my best team player. 

There are too many piss takers to make UC a viable thing. 

I reckon if even just £50 a week were paid as universal income it would save a lot of heartache/headache. Not enough to live on long term, paying rent, etc, but enough to feed yourself for a few weeks while more comprehensive benefit claims were processed.

If anyone is interested, I have heard from Westway Climbing & Fitness and they are also working with ABC along with UK Active to try and get walls reopened....

.... But their work has not come to fruition yet.

Ocean Rower: Some walls, even though they have their own managers, are part of a group for example The Lake Land Climbing Group and the three different Arch Climbing Walls in London.

S

I'm well aware of that. Working for a climbing wall group myself, even I worked that bit out.

What was laughable was 1. Your assertion that all the walls were suddenly going to open on the same date and 2. The ABC actually had any say in the matter.

Even within our group of three I'd be very surprised if they all reopened on the same day. 

Not completely laughable. All Walls ultimately closed as part of the Governments requirement for the leisure and hospitality to close their doors for social distancing purposes. If the Government announced that developments meant that the requirement could be rescinded on the 1st May. Just about every Wall would open on the 1st May. 

The ABC has already joined with other representative bodies to start the process of lobbying. They are a Trade body and not a Governing body; but they will do what they can for their members The BMC has had very little to do with Walls for sometime now. So any effort on the lobbying front will have to come from the ABC.

I’m thinking we are in for a big bad second wave. Look up 1918 Spanish flu for a lesson from history 

Here's a good link for those who can't be bothered to look it up

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-cur...

In the same way that gyms, pubs and restaurants won't be open in a weeks time, nor will climbing walls. No matter what negotiations are taking place we are surely talking months not days. 

I could even (almost) understand "normal" gyms opening. You can easily wipe down a stepper or rowing machine but, as I said on another thread, you try wiping down a 15 metre route...

I reiterate. Laughable!

And please don't misunderstand me, I want the walls to reopen as soon as possible, peoples jobs and businesses to be secure but anytime soon is sadly just dangerous.

I'm not sure the wiping down of the routes would be the problem so much; it seems more likely that it's just the difficulty of maintaining proximity limits that'd be more difficult to address while still running a viable business - one out, one in probably won't really work in places where people spend two hours plus, there are probably physical bottlenecks that would be hard to avoid (changing rooms, belay checks etc), and it'd be hard for staff to interact. These problems aren't insurmountable (face masks for all?), but it might be the case that it makes more sense to wait until there's no need for such stringency than to struggle on with a very limited and compromised service.

I'm generally fairly relaxed and optimistic about my chances of catching Covid-19, and my instinct is to reckon that, in practice, the chances of getting infected at a climbing wall are slim. But I suppose a business will have a responsibility to its customers that can't just be dismissed, and regardless of my blithe and carefree outlook an awful lot of people did get infected somehow

I can only agree that piss takers are an obstacle but we cannot allow the piss takers to dictate to us all.

One infected person would contaminate every hold they touched, I cannot imagine a better method for transmission.

If, and only if, they touched their face (picking up mucus from e.g. the eyes) or coughed/sneezed onto their hand first.  The virus doesn't shed through the skin.

It's more likely they'll contaminate a hold by coughing/sneezing on it, I tend to cough/sneeze a lot in climbing walls due to the amount of chalk dust.

Use your imagination a bit more and I'm sure you can work out some "better"  methods for transmission.

Climb to quick draw, puul up a loop of slack, hold loop in mouth, clip runner. Repeat for 10 clips. Lower off. Pull through rope and offer the end to your partner? 

Some of the routes you did with me are named and all are graded and all the problems you did with me are unlisted but graded.

Some of the news is a bit behind the curve or inaccurate. Abe declared a state of emergency on April 7th when cases rose fast and in recent days Japan seem to have got past the peak of the second wave, even though social distancing isn't really in evidence like it is in Europe. Singapore also had a new outbreak and moved to deal with it super fast. In China restictions around Harbin have increased (largely due to infection crossing the NE border). This is the new reality everyone faces post first lockdown.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

Hi. 

The route that I remember was Bilberry Crack (VD) but I didn't mange to second it as my jamming wasn't up to scratch.

I remember doing some bouldering on top-rope with you near the route.

I don't remember you telling me the grades of the problems but I remember you telling someone else on a different post about then being balancy with mantel exits.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/recommend_me_a_crush_pad-713607

Sav

What find hilarious about this thread is that we are going be let out and be able to climb (and everything else) before the vaccine is available to all of us (earliest mid 2021, according to GSK). So more infections will just be inevitable. There's no way they will keep wall close until we are all vaccinated, that will just decimate most businesses.

In regards to a vaccine. Oxford University have started doing human trials and apparently it might be ready for September. 

Along with the Oxford University one, Imperial College are starting their own human clinical trials in June. 

I agree with you. 

Yes they are skipping the animal testing. But the universities won't manufacture it, it will be the pharma giants like GSK, Astra Zeneca and Bayer that will. They might have a viable vaccine by September, we hope, but even then, to mass produce it to the levels to be able to vaccinate the global population might still take a few months (at best!). I think mid 2021 fo everyone to be vaccinated is pretty optimistic. Bottom line is that we are gonna be let out before then, so infected people will be about no matter what. 

Why has The BMC had very little  to do with walls? 

I agree with you about the pharma giants producing it and mass producing enough of it for the whole global population.

The government and news reporters did say we will have to live with the virus until for some time until a vaccine is avast for all of us. 

I have never coughed or sneezed at a wall because of chalk dust. 

Try having asthma and climbing regularly then

Do you have asthma then? Poor you!

I don't have asthma, but not to compare, I suffer from hayfever in the doing and early summer. 

The problems were UK tech to 4a (YMC graded F1 to F3). Mantel finishes are very common outdoors, a skill that tends to be less practiced indoors.

On a slightly different topic. Thanks for communicating with me via UKC. 

I have messaged you via text and email about further climbing then the floods happening and now COVID 19.

S

Odd .... I was pretty busy and highly distracted though, before the pandemic hit, for various reasons.

It's not too bad, but a gobful of chalk dust really doesn't help.  It's enough for it to be noticeable between bouldering (where the air tends to be thick with it because of the mats and it being released every time someone lands) and leading/toproping.  Obviously depends on how segregated the wall is between the two bits, though.

What is odd about my reply?

I am up for climbing. 

I think the price of self-belay devices is going to rise.

There are a number of reasons. The BMC is the representative body for walking, mountaineering and climbing. There are many services they offer the outdoor user; but have developed little to connect with the Wall user. Why, ranges from there's not a lot the BMC can offer, to (for some) a certain distain for the indoor climber. That attitude is reflected here on UKC at times. 'It's not real climbing' is a put down regularly use. It's a shame; because measured by participation in climbing, outdoor climbers are now a tiny minority. It is not for the BMC to promote outdoor climbing to the Wall user. For hundreds of thousands of users, their regular visit to the Wall is their activity. They are equally climbers, as are those who climb both indoors and outdoors; and those who climb just outdoors. These indoor users have no need nor intention of going outdoors. In the main, Walls are businesses and the BMC isn't a regulatory body. Currently, neither needs each other; which is not the best position.

At the risk of this going off on a massive tangent. I think it would be detrimental to climbing and mountaineering as a whole to encourage those who climb exclusively indoors to climb outside. Its not like they don't know it exists it's not actually a bad thing to let a self selection occur whereby those who are keen enough seek out outdoor climbing and those who aren't enjoy climbing indoors. From a selfish perspective this means great indoor facilities and still relatively quiet crags, though if we could have slightly quieter indoor walls that'd be bril ta.

Correct. Which is why I wrote 'it is not for the BMC to promote outdoor climbing to the Wall user'. Climbing as an activity has undergone a huge change in the last twenty years; as the focus on where you climb has, measured by participant numbers moved to the Walls. This demonstrates that our activity is in a healthy state.

 I am London based so I mainly climb indoors and have very little outdoor experience but I am keen for more.

Andy.

Slightly off topic. 

Just seen your profile. Do you work at  ilr End Wall? Have we met?

Sav

A climbing wall is rather different to a gym imo.  Runners and cyclists were advised to give far greater social distances due to all the sweat and heavy breathing increasing the volume of potentially infectious water droplets emanating from them (though few seem to have understood that message) Imagine the distancing requirements if your going to rain that down from on high.  I can’t imaging a much better method of distribution - all those little faces looking up and breathing it  all in. That’s before we get to all the hold touching...

I have a profile...damn..I bet it's ugly.

Yes we have met, and occasionally you grace me with a few kind words.

I meant a profile on here. 

I do talk to the staff at Mile End Wall. 

Are you mainly based at reception?

Sav

I think you mean "an unproven and non-peer-reviewed "study" suggested that..." however who runs 2m behind someone anyway?  You'd whack into them if they stopped.

Another aspect but related to outdoor climbing is a accommodation. 

When we do get to go the crags

Will places like The Millstone Country Inn in Millstone and The Little John in Hathersage be open then or will have shut down? 

S

I think it means they should keep away from people walking that they come across whilst running.  Do you think it’s wrong then and runners puffing and blowing are not shedding more droplets.  I guess commons sense should ignored in favour of waiting for    Firm guidance should it 

This is a good summary of the issues and possible truths of the article which led to the view you are expressing, at least in most people:

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/v74az9/the-viral-study-about-runners-spr...

Viruses don't necessarily follow common sense.  We need to be very careful about excessive virtue signalling and sticking to proven facts.

I suspect that chalk will dry up any vapour droplets super quick so the real world chance of catching  COVID from holds is negligible. The mostly likely means of catching it is from airborne droplets.

Very few climbers actually touch their faces during climbing due to the chalk on their hands so its again unlikely to spread in this way.

There wont be a vaccine in september. We are starting work on them next week. Already been making the oil for them and ingredients for i.v's 

Probably, although I'd like to offer up my wife as an honourable exception - after a few routes she generally resembles Coco the clown.  I once described her, post session, as resembling "Keith Richards after a cocaine bender" - which didn't go down well.

Mark. 

I don't get your reply. It seems to contradict itself. 

It really doesn't. Find out how long it takes to create a vaccine then count forwards from next week.

I'll bet it goes WAY past September...

The Miner's Arms in Eyam.    

You are both right and wrong.. 

In this article it says four to six months. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/leaked-cabinet-office-briefin...

To go slightly Off Topic. 

Do you work for The Spider climbing group?

S

You might want to re read your link. Minimum 6 months after its contained. I think your trips to the wall will not be happening anytime soon. Outdoors will be going a lot sooner which is good for me as im not an indoor climber 

I have re-read the part I the link about the virus and it says atleast four to six months after it has been identified abd isolated.

In regards to outdoor climbing I am up for it whenever it is possible. 

Are you up for taking me to The Roaches etc?

S

How close is that to say for example Curbar?.... 

.... Or are saying it has closed down.

Of course i will, if you come climbing at the roaches im more than happy to help you and give you tips etc 

A bit 'tongue in cheek' as it was the plague village.  Probably closed for the time being, but worth a call. Nearer to Curbar village than Hathersage.

 01433 630853

Thanks Mark. 

What is the nearest train station to The Roaches?

Sav

I have looked it up and it is temporarily closed. 

I have visited Curbar with Offwidth and Buxton Coffee Lover but I didn't do any climbing with them their. 

Next time when I go I will climb something maybe this Dog-Leg Crack (HVD 4a).

Sav

Rope into mouth prior to clipping, wire in mouth prior to placing. Both hand to face and both quite common. 

Then you hand over the rack to your partner for the next pitch, or pull the rope through for them to lead using the same end. Habitual climbing behaviours which are pretty obvious disease vectors. 

There's a paper from a study in Italy, that suggests the virus can remain viable on droplets expelled from the mouth and nose for a couple of hours, not only that but it can be spread around by pollution particles. It's not been peer reviewed yet, but that's a proposal as to why Italy suffered such a wide spread of the virus, because of the pollution.

So even if people changed their life long habits of rope / mouth / rope / clip, it might well do you no good at all.

So it could go flying around inside a climbing wall on that thick fug of chalk most walls have?  Interesting.

Could air pollution be why there so many cases and deaths in London?

London not only is densely populated but has terrible air quality. 

S

Neil. 

Is there a link between air pollution and asthma?

Sav

Pretty sure there is yes.

Sav maybe you try googling your questions before asking on here. Then you wouldn’t come across as a bit of a lightweight.

Give him a break, this isn't a technical committee or court of law, it is a conversational forum. 

Do you mean googlung to get the answer or googling to write the question better? 

Hi Neil. 

You are right. This link says that there is.

https://www.asthma.org.uk/advice/triggers/pollution/

Sav

I suppose, I have to stress though, this report hasn't been reviewed so it might be cack, but who knows at the moment.

More scary is there might be no immunity conferred from having it, meaning you may be able to catch it numerous times. I don't see what we do in that circumstance.

Come on. If someone with breathing difficulties wonders whether pollution might have effect on them, do they ask on UKClimbing or  do they look for the science. 
Given that Sav tells us he is University educated. My five year old grandson asks more informed questions.

Immunity: I think it was the WHO that said there might be no immunity from having it.

 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-antibody-test-immune-...

Sav

Just for giggles. 

I'll have a go at on sighting these two routes.

B4, XS (E7 6b)

Paralogism (E7 6c)

LOL LMHO 

Better have plenty of scaffolding then.

The post was meant to be funny - hence the LOL and LMHO.   

By scaffolding, do you trad gear and ropes?

Sav

Hmmm.... 

Possible 26 challenge for a charity as 6b/6c is approx Aus 26?!  

Charities are really suffering because of lockdown. 

Mark s: what do you think? 

As was my reply. (note the smiley face)  Scaffolding as used on building sites.

Yep got that. 

 Some of the construction industry is allowed to work through lockdown.

Sav

Update to anyone who is interested:

Reply from ABC about walls reopening. 

Hi,

We are working hard with walls and in liaison with government departments on this. 

We are publishing our latest thinking on our home page here: https://www.abcwalls.co.uk

Many thanks, 

kath

Sav

So. As predicted. Bugger all.

I thought the same at first but today Kath has given me access to some pdf documents. 

What is your email address?

What do you see when you uck on this link?

https://www.abcwalls.co.uk/news/coronavirus-updates-and-weekly-news/

Sav

When I click on it I see general advice but nothing whatsoever, realistically, about when and/or how climbing walls should reopen. Basically because, at the moment, nobody knows.

I have read some pdf documents.

I have sent you a private message. 

Did you receive my pm? 

Message from the BMC:-

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/reopening-the-walls-a-message-from-the-association...

Thank you very much for this. Greatly appreciated. 

I am also more than 1/2 through watching Rob Dyers access and conservation Q and A on The BMC FB page.

Sav