UKC

Hey up,

I've noticed when I deadhang to failure that it's not usually my fingers that uncurl or my forearms that are burning. Instead, failure seems to occur first in my shoulders.

I found this a bit surprising and wondered if anyone has any insight into whether this is normal and whether or not this means I'd gain more by focusing training on shoulders rather than fingers for a while?

Thanks in advance!

You're not alone, I've had similar, historically having a weak upper body. This winter I set about fixing it by doing a load of (weighted) pull ups and lock-offs on a bar - and it seems to have helped. I figure that if you can only just lock off on a bar for the same weight/duration as your max fingerboard hangs, your shoulders may well be the weak part of the chain.

n=1 of course.

I was trying assisted one arm hangs, and found that the amount of counterweight I needed was only a few kilos different on a jug than on a 20mm edge, and maybe only 5-6kg different from a 15mm edge. 

I'm not sure I've done it very diligently but I did self prescribe things like assisted one arm scapular shrugs to work on this. 

Don’t give up training fingers! One workaround method to exert load is to keep your feet planted on the floor and pull as hard as possible. Another is to do shorter duration hangs using a smaller hold or more added weight so you are doing hangs before the shoulders would otherwise give out.

In the meantime do shoulder work. Not something I know a lot about but shoulder shrugs on a bar is something I’ve done a lot of for a year or so as part of a warm up. Again doesn’t have to be free hanging but pulling up on your tippy toes for more control and reducing force required. I’m sure complementary dumbbell or TRX work would help but not something I know too much about but very popular these days.

I had a shoulder injury from skiing, got physio for it which basically meant one arm raises to the side and to the front along with some resistance band work.  At the start I could not even do 0.5kg weighted ones, I have kept it up for the last 2 years and now do just over 6kg, along with doing push ups. My shoulders are fine doing hangboard, it's my forearms that give first.

Do you dead hang in different positions ie. Full lock, 90° and 120° and making sure that your shoulders are engaged when hanging straight and not hanging off your skeleton? 

Are you sure it's your shoulder and not your lats? Try Seal Rows or Ring Rows, and some Skin the Cats and front levers to strengthen the shoulder girdle. 

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. To clarify:

I normally hang with shoulders engaged, elbows slightly bent. (I don't tend to hang in different position, though - maybe I should?). I don't hang off my skeleton because I had the impression this was bad form.

If I do repeaters, it's my forearms that burn and give in first. Sometimes, with a half-crimp, it's my index finger that uncurls first. But, if I'm hanging a smaller hold or with weight, usually it's my left shoulder that gives in first - and it feels like it's somewhere on the shoulder blade. I struggle to keep the shoulder engaged and it wants to head toward hanging off my skeleton, so then I stop. For example, if I do 4 reps, perhaps on the 4th one my shoulder starts to unclench before the set time.

More generally, repeaters leave my forearms and fingers feeling a lot more tired than max hangs, which I usually feel in the shoulders - e.g. the next day I might struggle to do a pull-up and decide it's better to rest.

Thanks again

Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to do Seal Rows or Ring Rows; and I'm not nearly strong enough to do front levers or Skin the Cats! It may be my lats, but I'm not sure. I do plenty of pushups. I'll look into manageable lat exercises and see if it helps.

Dumbell rows are a good alternative. You can also row & lever on the underside of a table!

Scapular pullups - 3 sets of 15 every other day, also other shoulder stabilising stuff so push ups, Turkish getups and those funny thing people do with elastic bands.  In all cases form matters over loading.  Shoulders back in place, keep them in place as you do things because it's easy to train yourself to use the wrong big muscles at the expense of strength and control of the ones you need.

Takes a while, be patient. Has the added value that it makes you climb nicely.

When the walls are open you can climb easy stuff and reset your shoulder posture (shrug in) every move. Eventually you'll climb with better posture.  By this time the hangs won't be a problem (for the shoulders).

Thanks! I think some scapula shrugs seems the way to go. I have noticed that with pull ups I start with my shoulder engaged and arms a little bent; consequently I'm not using the full range of motion and am weaker when I try to do so. Seems like correcting that could help!

This is my major problem too, my upper body is weak and have injury problems in my left shoulder so very difficult to use a hang board to train fingers. I've been slowly building up shoulder strength with a variety of exercises as other suggest. One other thing that can allow you to specifically work on fingers without dealing with the shoulder is a pinch block with a crimp on it. Lattice sell one and I'm sure others do too (I got one made by a friend who is handy with wood).

This was definitely the case with me when adding a lot of weight for max hangs. And by pushing through anyway I managed to injure my right shoulder (despite what seems to have been correct form)! To rehab and strengthen it I’ve gotten a lot of benefit from single-arm overhead presses with a kettlebell, Turkish get ups (don’t need much weight for either), and YTWL exercises on the floor (no weight at all). Didn’t find scapular pull-ups alone very helpful. 

I had this exact problem, and when one arm hanging the BM2000 20mm edge i'd come off prematurely because of weak shoulders (I used to spin too when one arm hanging)

The way I solved this problem was to do one arm hangs with good form on the central jug but add weight. It built up strength and stopped the rotation problems that i was having.