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Extreme Parking Charges

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I am a member of a local climbing and mountaineering club in Aberdeen and am a regular user of the Transition Extreme climbing wall using a pre-paid multi access pass.  My normal visits are after work - and at this time of year it is dark and frequently inclement.  It appears Transition Extreme have introduced a new parking regime and I have just been hit with a £100 parking charge for the privilege of visiting the climbing wall one evening.  No one at the reception desk when I booked in had the decency to point out the new regime so that customers to the centre could avoid the parking charge.  When I contacted the centre the only comment provided was that signs were up in the car park - but on a dark and wet night none was seen - and the reception staff should tell the customer of the parking regime.  Clearly this is not happening.  Quite a disgraceful way to treat a regular paying customer to the centre.

2
 FreshSlate 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

> I am a member of a local climbing and mountaineering club in Aberdeen and am a regular user of the Transition Extreme climbing wall using a pre-paid multi access pass.  My normal visits are after work - and at this time of year it is dark and frequently inclement.  It appears Transition Extreme have introduced a new parking regime and I have just been hit with a £100 parking charge for the privilege of visiting the climbing wall one evening.  No one at the reception desk when I booked in had the decency to point out the new regime so that customers to the centre could avoid the parking charge.  When I contacted the centre the only comment provided was that signs were up in the car park - but on a dark and wet night none was seen - and the reception staff should tell the customer of the parking regime.  Clearly this is not happening.  Quite a disgraceful way to treat a regular paying customer to the centre.

That sounds awful. How much is it to park?

 Alex1 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

You appear to be under the mistaken impression that TE management care about their climbing wall customers... 

 olddirtydoggy 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Whatever you do don't pay it. Just because somebody says you owe them £100, it doesn't mean you do. Pretty crap way to be treated.

12
 Offwidth 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

To enforce any private parking fine the  signage needs to have been clear.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/

1
Rigid Raider 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

DO NOT respond to any letters, do not pay, do not confirm that you own the car or were there that evening. You will receive a series of increasingly menacing letters with escalating threats from debt collection agencies and if you look carefully you'll see that they are all printed on the same crap paper in the same font with the same fake signature. It's a numbers game; they are hoping to frighten you into paying what amounts to their invoice for the use of the car park. 

19
 toad 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

I dont know if the civil enforcement procedures in Scotland are different. Apologies if mse covers this, i didn't read the link

1
Deadeye 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

That's terrible advice since the law changed.

 Jon Greengrass 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

What is the new parking regime?

Is mooring still free on wet evenings, when the carpark is typically under a foot of water?

Post edited at 10:49
 StuDoig 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

It's really poor show by them Roddy, but unfortunately it does seem to match their usual dismissive / arrogant approach to their climbing members.  I hope you can get it sorted out, £100 would pay petrol for a few tips to Dundee for Avertical instead of transition!  Sounds like you're not the only person having been caught from the jungle drums either!  

Cheers,

Stu

1
Rigid Raider 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

OK the better advice is to discuss it face to face with the wall manager and make it clear you are not happy with the way it was done. They will probably agree to tell the extortionists to waive the charge.

 Simon Caldwell 18 Dec 2019
In reply to toad:

In Scotland the registered keeper isn't liable for parking fines, so if you don't tell them who was driving then they'd have to resort to the small claims court to get payment. It seems that this has happened on occasions, but is the exception.

 Ciro 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> In Scotland the registered keeper isn't liable for parking fines, so if you don't tell them who was driving then they'd have to resort to the small claims court to get payment. It seems that this has happened on occasions, but is the exception.

Pedantic point - private companies can't issue fines - only a request to pay a surcharge, however it's dressed up.

In England, I decided not to pay one a few years back. They did issue me with a court summons - I would have liked to go argue my case but as I was due to be in Spain by the court date I paid up instead.

1
 The New NickB 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Signs that you cannot see will help you challenge the enforceability of the charge.

 supersteve 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

I remember getting a ticket in Cornwall in a marina car park. I accidentally put into the machine my old car number plate rather than the new car I had only had for a couple of weeks. I explained this to the marina manager who understood the mistake and got the ticket cancelled. I would defo get in contact with the wall manager, preferably in person, and if they are a normal human being they should understand your plight and help get the ticket nullified. The ticketing company work for them so they have the power to do this. I assume the wall will have a record of your visit so they can see the corresponding ticket matches up. Good luck. 

 Ramon Marin 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

I've never paid any, and have lots, from service station and parkings, I just bin them. The send lots of letters, an awful waste of paper. Only a courts summon would get my attention, but never got one

7
 Fruitbat 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

It may be worth it if you take some photos (in daylight, obviously, but maybe at night as well) of the signs and overall car park layout that show that the signs are unlit/can't be read by any general lighting. Do this before any lighting gets fitted.

Post edited at 17:27
 ASharpe 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

I'd echo what Ramon says. 

3
 Jamie Wakeham 18 Dec 2019
In reply to ASharpe:

In England and Wales this is really bad advice. It works for some of the private parking companies, but others (notably ParkingEye) are litigious and once they get to the stage of issuing a claim via the Small Claims Court it's a bugger to defend, especially as they can show that you didn't engage with the process.

There is a reliable way to beat them by appealing but it's a little fiddly and time-limited so the best advice is to go to one of the specialist forums (moneysavingexpert or pepipoo) and get decent advice.

OP is in Scotland, though, where the rules are different - as I understand it 'ignore' is still good advice there as the PPC cannot establish keeper liability, so as long as you don't admit who was driving they have no-one to pursue.

Removed User 18 Dec 2019
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Unfortunately the Scottish parliament passed a Transport Bill just last month, one of the provisions of which is that Scotland will be subject to register keeper liability just as in England. It was included as a result of quiet but intensive lobbying by the parking "industry". The provisions become law sometime in the New Year.

Thanks SNP - on the side of the sharks rather than the public.

 FactorXXX 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Removed Userrabthecairnterrier:

> Thanks SNP - on the side of the sharks rather than the public.

Alternatively, you could just park as per the stipulations set out by the business that owns the car park.

24
Northern Star 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Firstly this is not a fine - it is an invoice based on an assumed contract being in place.

I believe the law in Scotland is changing soon to make the registered keeper liable for the alleged breach of contract, same as it is here in England and Wales.

If this is the case (and you have not named the driver - which you are under no legal obligation to do so), then the car park company will have to abide by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 if they want to take things further: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted 

There are many strict conditions associated with POFA 2012 relating to how the car park company can behave and what they need to comply with to ensure that POFA 2012 is valid and keeper liability can apply.  If they haven't complied in full with the legislation then any invoice issued would not be upheld in court. 

Repeatedly however, these parking companies seem unable or unwilling to comply with POFA 2012.  But that will not stop them chasing you with nasty letters threatening court action.  Probably because too many people simply roll over and pay up when they get a scary letter.

Please remember though that despite what these companies claim, you can only end up with a CCJ on your credit file if the parking company win at court (unlikely if you can produce a reasoned defense) AND following that you also fail to pay any amount demanded by the court.  Bailiffs cannot be sent round without a court order (again for this to happen it means you would have to have lost at court and also have failed to pay what the court demands).

There are official means set up to appeal these parking invoices.  POPLA is one route, the IAS is another.  Please remember that these (especially IAS) are little more than kangaroo courts who receive their funding directly from the car parking companies and are therefore subject to undue influence from the parking companies to not uphold appeals. 

That said you do not have to go through any official channels to challenge these invoices should you so wish.  This is not a council parking ticket, just an invoice, so you have the option to reply in any way you choose, as you would with any other invoice dispute, or to not reply at all (not so advisable though these days).

What I tend to do with any PCN's (invoices) is to wait for the Notice to Keeper to be received through the post, then simply write to the parking company once (as the vehicle keeper - not the driver) and tell them that all liability is denied.  I then point out clearly the reasons why their parking charge is invalid, based on the specific situation at hand, their lack of compliance with POFA 2012 and also their failure to stick to their own industry Code of Conduct (they rarely seem to stick to this either).

Normally they relent, but still sometimes after this they can continue to send you threatening letters from various debt collection agencies.  I ignore these.  If it gets as far as an official 'Letter Before Action' (last chance before court) then simply reply repeating the above once more, stating very clearly the reasons why their invoice is invalid and stating that you will be defending robustly in court, whereby when you win, you will be seeking costs and expenses from them.

So far for me a 100% success rate for really very little time and effort spent and I've not had to go to court yet.  Shame really, I think I'd quite enjoy going to court to add another notch to life's rich tapestry of experience.

With the above I am not advocating parking where you know you shouldn't.  I am just pointing out that the whole parking enforcement industry is corrupt, unethical, absent of morals and repeatedly fails to comply with it's own code of practice and required laws surrounding POFA 2012.  If this is the case, use it to your advantage.

Post edited at 09:06
 Jamie Wakeham 19 Dec 2019
In reply to FactorXXX:

Come on - you really feel that £100 is a suitable and appropriate punishment for not spotting an unlit sign in a dark car park that you've been using correctly for years?

As NS points out, these people aren't playing fair.  They are the ex-cowboy clampers, who've been regulated out of their old wany of extorting money and needed to find a new way.  They break their own industry code of practice with absolute impunity - I will bet 20:1 that the signage at the car park in question will not have been compliant.  Their internal appeals courts are ridiculous and no argument that you or I would regard as sensible can win there - the only winning arguments are truly arcane ones that you need the help of an internet forum to discover.

I agree with NS and I'm not advocating parking wherever the hell you like either.  But being charged £100 for not spotting an illegal sign is b*llox.

That the Scottish parliament has introduced keeper liability (the rule that says that if the PPC cannot identify the driver, they can automatically hold the registered keeper liable) is a blow for scotland.  But it does now mean that 'ignore' is poor advice everywhere as of January.

1
 Aly 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Sorry to hear about that, it’s crap.  I visited this wall yesterday (for the first time in years so I don’t know what the parking arrangement was previously) and it was daylight, but to be fair to them, they had several signs up as you came into the building and approached the desk asking you to register your car number plate.  This signage may well be a result of a barrage of unhappy customers having been issued tickets!

The pepipoo fora are often good for challenging tickets (check the advice is relevant to Scotland) if a meeting with the centre manager doesn’t work.  Hope you manage to get it sorted and don’t pay the thieving bar stewards. 

 StuDoig 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

I went past the carpark yesterday after walking the dogs nearby and whilst the signing is fairly obvious I can completely see how you'd miss it on a crap night when you're hood up/head down and have no reason to believe that the parking rules have changed after  a decade or so.  I now know of 4 people who have been caught out in my very limited pool of people who use the center so clearly some kind of problem.  All are long term members so I suspect a bit of habituation involved too - you don't expect the change so you don't see it.

Given Transition's marketing e-mails, strong social media / online presence etc. it's pretty poor that they've not even tried to alert their members.  Still no mention of it on their website or "social wall" that I can see.

It's sad, because the idea is actually decent - there's a lot of folk park there that aren't using the center (particularly on match days given it's 10 minute walk from Pitodrie).  So a system where members using the center still park for free, but anyone not using the center is deterred / kept out is a good thing for members - as much as I detest the company involved in implementing the restrictions (Parking Eye).

Classic example of good idea terribly executed!

1
Rigid Raider 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

The whole parking business (how I hate the over-use of "industry") is designed to separate drivers from their cash by fair means or foul. There's a privately-owned car park in Haworth that's notorious for scamming by its owners; it has been liveried up to look like a local authority car park but the owners' agents sit in a white van, watching, with their clamps ready. I met them once when I innocently asked them if they had any change and they produced a huge bag of pound coins. 

A story to gladden the hearts of anybody who has been ripped off by car park owners: a pal of mine (sadly late) who was a solicitor in Ripon got clamped behind some shops late one night in Bradford. The clampers wanted £60 to remove the clamp. He called the AA and the Police who both advised him to pay as it was a civil matter. Being a man of character and of forthright opinions he refused to be blackmailed so he phoned a late-night garage who came with a pickup truck and craned his car away to their garage where they dismantled the front suspension to remove the clamp, undamaged. He received the usual threatening letters but simply replied that the clamp was in his garage, undamaged, where they could collect it at any time. They never came and as far as I know it's still there. When we heard the story we laughed and asked him how much the mechanic had charged. "Two hundred and forty pounds!" was the answer, "but the difference was - I ENJOYED paying that money!" 

 Scott K 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

It would be very interesting to go to court and see what the response was if you held a membership at the time of the incident. It's a disgrace and TE should be ashamed to have allowed this company to enforce the parking. It would be great if TE could get a list of car numbers for all members so you didn't have to muck about with entering the number plate but as they can barely organise getting people through reception, it is unlikely.

I have reported them to planning as they don't seem to have any planning permission in place but it may not be required! The £100 fee seems excessive when you can climb for between £5 and £10. 

 whitlew 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Same thing happened to me Roddy. I got reception to email me a screenshot of my login that day. Used that to make an appeal through parking eye. 

Hopefully that works out as I'm not paying £100.. centre is extortionate enough as it is.

 Simon Caldwell 19 Dec 2019
In reply to whitlew:

In my experience, appealing through Parking Eye is a waste of time. You need to go via the carpark owners, explain the situation, and get them to cancel it.

(in my case, the "offence" was over-staying in a service station car park, even though the over-stay was due to waiting for the AA to mend my car! Silence from PE, immediate cancellation from the service station)

 Jamie Wakeham 19 Dec 2019
In reply to whitlew:

I'm afraid that you might be disappointed.  Almost all appeals to Parking Eye fail -they use the kangaroo court that is PoPLA, and mitigating circumstances are always rejected. 

If you've submitted an appeal without looking up the rather specialist things which can actually win here then I very much expect it'll fail.  And if (assuming you're in Scotland too) you have inadvertently identified yourself as the driver, then PE will almost certainly come after you in a small claims court. 

If I were you I'd get straight to either MSE or pepipoo and get proper advice.  It might still be that you can get the landowner to cancel the charge (they can always overrule PE).

 henwardian 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Don't pay and definitely don't communicate with the company issuing the charge. Assuming it's a private company like parking eye or similar, their business model relies on fear and guilt rather than actual enforceability. They'll send you repeated letters threatening to kidnap your loved ones, burn your pets alive and sodomise your corpse but it's basically all bluster, the only people they are actually taking to court are those who rack up dozens if not hundreds of fines in this way so it becomes worth their while. There isn't enough court time or lawyers in the whole of the UK to bring cases against even a small percentage of those who throw those tickets in the bin and ignore letters.

2
Northern Star 19 Dec 2019
In reply to henwardian:

> Don't pay and definitely don't communicate with the company issuing the charge. Assuming it's a private company like parking eye or similar, their business model relies on fear and guilt rather than actual enforceability.

That used to be the advice but now the law has changed regarding keeper liability it is always best to communicate with them.  Never admit to being the driver though.  You can find various templates if you go to MSE Forum, Pepipoo etc.  It is still very unlikely that they will take you to court - even less so if you tell them to sod off (backed up by valid reasons why) at the time the NTK arrives.  And if they are stupid enough to take you to court (because it costs them more to do so than they'll ever get back), then provided you put a solid defense together (again see MSE Forum and Pepipoo), you'll almost certainly win in any case.

Post edited at 16:40
 Simon Caldwell 19 Dec 2019
In reply to Northern Star:

> it is always best to communicate with them

I'd still recommend talking to the car park owner first, they may just cancel the ticket - especially if you're a paying customer.

 Jamie Wakeham 19 Dec 2019
In reply to henwardian:

Absolutely incorrect.  Look here - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60 - plenty of cases of people being taken to court and even, if they continue to ignore, having CCJ's issued in their absence.

They use the small claims court, issuing in bulk via the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, so no court time (unless you defend) and no lawyers involved.

Your advice will put people into serious trouble.

 Scott K 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Bear in mind this is a car park in Scotland so, currently, different rules.

 Jamie Wakeham 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Scott K:

True - ignore will still work in Scotland for the next few weeks.  Henwardian was talking about the whole UK, though, and the forums are full of people asking what to do now they've found they already have a CCJ against them.

I'm also not terribly confident about fighting these in the small claims court - after Beavis vs PE removed the best defence, it's awfully dependent on the opinions of the particular judge you get.  Better by far to beat them at the internal appeal to PoPLA or IAS, which is pretty easy to do if you follow the advice.

 Tobes 20 Dec 2019
In reply to whitlew:

> Same thing happened to me Roddy. I got reception to email me a screenshot of my login that day. Used that to make an appeal through parking eye. 

> Hopefully that works out as I'm not paying £100.. centre is extortionate enough as it is.

Yep - got mine the other day. Phoned operations at TX to also get emailed a screen shot of login. 
 

I made the point numerous times during the call that at no point whilst paying/signing in at reception was it mentioned not were there signs in reception- like you (OP) I’ve been using TX for years and not knowing there was an operational change, meant I wasn’t looking for/at new signs in the car park either.

point of contact is at reception- I was there midweek morning, there were NO other people signing in/queuing at that precise time - it would have taken 30 seconds to mention the ‘new’ parking system. Better still have it on a sign in reception and simply point at the info. 

when I asked operations if they have had a number of calls about this they were non committal. 
 

I didn’t know there was a post about this till after receiving the letter. Perhaps the thread title should be edited to name/shame Transition Extreme - otherwise it’ll be missed as just a general ‘expensive parking’ thread? 
 

Northern Star 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> True - ignore will still work in Scotland for the next few weeks.  Henwardian was talking about the whole UK, though, and the forums are full of people asking what to do now they've found they already have a CCJ against them.

> I'm also not terribly confident about fighting these in the small claims court - after Beavis vs PE removed the best defence, it's awfully dependent on the opinions of the particular judge you get.  Better by far to beat them at the internal appeal to PoPLA or IAS, which is pretty easy to do if you follow the advice.


The Beavis case is relevant for that particular set of circumstances but it is not very relevant at all to the vast majority of parking cases.  You are unlikely to beat a parking company at POPLA or IAS - these are little more than Kangaroo courts that usually find in the parking companies favor, whatever the mitigating circumstances.  Not worth wasting your time with either. 

If you follow the advice on Pepipoo or MSE Forum then these can be easily defended in court.  If you follow the advise given to you then your defense will be solid.  I believe the success rate of cases defended with Pepipoo or MSE Forum guidance is not too far of 100%, high 90's % in any case.  Best option before all this though is to get the climbing centre to cancel the ticket on your behalf.

 Jamie Wakeham 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Northern Star:

I've won at PoPLA every time, following pepipoo advice. They won't find against the PPC on any mitigating circumstances, but carefully prepared arguments will do it - I've won on the GPEOL basis (but since Beavis I believe they won't accept GPEOL any more) and on arguments that the PPC has no legal standing to bring the charges.

But yes, getting the landowner to intervene is still fastest and easiest!

Post edited at 13:15
 Tobes 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

I’ve now got the screen shot of my visit but here’s the crux - if I submit/acknowledge this with the company this will prove its me (which of course it is) which the company will then surely reply along the lines of ‘you admit to parking there without following the signed procedures so you’re still liable to the fine’ followed by me saying ‘well yes, but I didn’t see the signs/wasn’t made aware of the new procedure’ etc and so on. Hmm should I just completely ignore the letter.

Best outcome would be for TX to intervene and take on/resolve all these initial fines. Like we all have time right now (being Christmas) to sort this bollocks out ...

1
 whitlew 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Tobes:

Yeah bricking it now that I made the wrong move! My first step was to contact tx and they just passed it off to the parking company saying it was out of their hands.. 

So crap when you're so used to going and fecked from work coming in.. and at xmas as well! 

Aberdeen needs a decent gym. 

 Tobes 20 Dec 2019
In reply to whitlew:

Aye it’s not gone down well with anyone (I know a few more who have  received ‘the letter’)

I’m sure we could start a whole new thread on the issues with TX but for now I think they need to step in and get these initial fines sorted out. I’ve asked (emailed) the manager to escalate this up the chain, they (the person I spoke to did admit ‘more effort’ should have been made at notifying people at the point of contact (reception area) so I would use that as your defence but I’m still in two minds whether to respond or just ignore the letters completely.

I'm halfway between Aberdeen and Dundee so I know where my money is going in future. 

 Jamie Wakeham 20 Dec 2019
In reply to Tobes:

A pity that that the landowner is refusing to help. Go get proper advice from pepipoo. 

I believe Scottish law currently allows you to send a response to the PPC which basically says 'I am the Keeper of this vehicle. You need to send your demand to the driver. No I'm not telling you who the driver is.' and that's the end of it... but get that confirmed by the experts! 

Whitlew, if you've inadvertently identified yourself as the driver then you've lost that route. Again, get to pepipoo and they'll tell you how to proceed.

There is no reason at all either of you need to pay the scum a penny.

In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

Another one to add to the list- a regular customer since TX opened and I’ve just received the £100 fine. Like the posters above- I didn’t see the signs (dark, rainy, hood up/head down) and no mention in reception.

And i too am amazed at the lack of notification on the TX social media feeds, given their normal presence.

Crap.

 Trangia 23 Dec 2019
In reply to Ciro:

> In England, I decided not to pay one a few years back. They did issue me with a court summons - I would have liked to go argue my case but as I was due to be in Spain by the court date I paid up instead.

Did you know that in such circumstances you could have written to the court requesting another date for the hearing?

 Tobes 23 Dec 2019
In reply to James Richardson:

What’s your plan, will you ignore it or appeal?

i’m still undecided, kind of a damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation it seems. 

Post edited at 13:40
 Ciro 23 Dec 2019
In reply to Trangia:

> Did you know that in such circumstances you could have written to the court requesting another date for the hearing?

I'm not sure "I'm going to Spain in my van, probably have enough money to last 12 - 18 months, unless I pick up some work along the way, in which case I may stay longer. Can I just let you know when I get back?" would fly though 😁

In reply to Tobes:

”appeal”. Although this sounds like I did something wrong. But clearly I was a customer on the night and my car was parked there.......

the organisation in the wrong is transition extreme. Very poor show they can’t reply here. I know they are aware of UKC thread.....

J

 Neil Morrison 24 Dec 2019
In reply to James Richardson:

Yeah, all a bit disappointing though perhaps not surprising if you look back at their track record when it comes to customer service. You would have thought the publicity around such a significant change with such a high financial penalty would have been significant. You would also think that it would be part of the “script” at reception both before it’s inception and from their on in. They are very good at reminding me my annual membership will expire from about 2 months out. If it is a genuine attempt to keep the parking clear for users rather than a money maker you would think the proof of sign in from their own system would cancel the charge. Sadly it l looks like the latter and they will presumably be getting a proportion of the fines. You wonder where it all goes for them in a month when a clip and climb has appeared in a local trampoline centre presumably taking away a section of the kids party cash stream. The bouldering is laughable in this day and age and all it would take is a competitor to come into that sector and I can’t see how TX would survive. Sadly the board seem inaccessible or not engaged with the users and I don’t know where things sit with a new Chief Executive. All a shame when there is so much potential.

 Neil Morrison 24 Dec 2019
In reply to James Richardson:

I can’t actually find anything on their social media or website about the introduction of the parking situation. 

 Alkis 24 Dec 2019
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> I'm also not terribly confident about fighting these in the small claims court - after Beavis vs PE removed the best defence, it's awfully dependent on the opinions of the particular judge you get.  Better by far to beat them at the internal appeal to PoPLA or IAS, which is pretty easy to do if you follow the advice.

That can be very hit or miss. A few months ago our business went to the local Pizza Hut. Four cars went in. There were new parking signs that made no sense:

Header:

"PIZZA HUT CUSTOMER PARKING ONLY"

Small print:

"Pizza hut must obtain a parking permit parking permit inside the restaurant" (exact transcription)

Apparently there is then a sign on the door to sign in using an iPad and the staff is meant to tell you too. The door was held open and the staff said nothing. Two out of four cars got a PCN.

The manager of the restaurant said that it's fine, we need to appeal and he'll back the appeal and cancel it.

Calling the company to appeal, there is no way to speak to a human and it just forwards you to the website. We used the website to appeal. The appeals were automatically (i.e. instantly) rejected. The manager then said we need to take the appeal further, the first one is always rejected (!?). We went to POPLA, with an appeal about the signage.

Two identical appeals were submitted. One succeeded with a decision that the signage is not unambiguous and hence not legally binding. One failed with a decision that the signage is adequate and backing the parking operator's view that we should have contacted them by phone to resolve the matter than going to appeal, even though that is actually impossible.

Any time you deal with these criminals, beware.

Post edited at 10:19
Duncan Murray 24 Dec 2019
In reply to Neil Morrison:

Hi there,

I'm on the Board at TX, and just an update to let you know we're aware of the parking issue.  We've been contacted by members who have been hit with the charge, and will be contacting the parking company to have the charges against them removed.  We don't make any money out of the parking service - it is purely to ensure access to center users as it's in a prime location and is frequently misused.  Transition Extreme is a Charity, first and foremost, and although we're keen to invest in the facilities which support our mission, funding in the current market is difficult to obtain as you'll no doubt appreciate.  In the last year we have recently welcomed a new, experienced CEO to the team, recruited a new Chairperson of the Board, and we're looking forward to 2020 to improve the customer experience and facilities.  We're always keen to hear feedback, and please feel free to message me on here or email me directly at d.murray@transition-extreme.com.  Apologies that the introduction of the parking scheme hasn't gone quite as smoothly as it could have, but I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and all the best for 2020. 

1
 Neil Morrison 24 Dec 2019
In reply to Duncan Murray:

Brilliant. Thanks for getting in touch Duncan and for the proposed action around the parking. Great to hear the new CEO is in post and I’m looking forward to the focus on the customer experience and facilities. And that supporting the charitable aims. I’ve been involved loosely since the outset when Neil S was getting the place up and running and was on the customer advisory board that run for a long time so totally get the point re the difficulties of financing things and managing the facilities. That customer side of things feels like it slipped away in the last few years and it is encouraging to hear the board is receptive to feedback. 

Have a great Christmas yourself and all the best. 

Neil Morrison

 Dangerous Dave 24 Dec 2019
In reply to Duncan Murray:

I have pretty much given up on going to Transition, most expensive wall in the country, RIP off annual membership fees of £30 routes that rarely get changed every year we have the same moan and emails get sent and every year nothing changes. It's a real shame as the guys that work on the floor all seem to try but just dont get the hours to change the routes etc. If another wall opened up in Aberdeen Transition would go down the pan but at the moment they have a monopoly. Yes you may be a charity but your customers expect some value for their money. Hopefully with a change in CEO things will change but I have hoped this before. These parking charges are of no surprise really. Was it really necessary? Apart from when the football is on does their carpark really get used by anyone else?

1
climbingnoob 24 Dec 2019
In reply to Roddy MacTaggart:

boycott the gym and if there are enough climbers similarly disgusted, set up your own gym with free parking just to make an example out of these losers.

2
In reply to Duncan Murray:

Thanks for the information duncan. I must admit the charge was an unwelcome surprise, especially as the reception staff said nothing to me as i signed in. Ive lodged an appeal with Parking Eye but their letter and appeal website language is aggressive and threatening, and suggest that as I didnt use the ipad to sign in my car reg then i wont be successful with the appeal.  

I would welcome information from you when you have confirmed that the charges will not stand. Your reception have my details or i can be contacted through here, or as a follower on FB. 

Thanks

James

 Izy 04 Jan 2020
In reply to Duncan Murray:

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for taking the time to put a post on here. I've been issued 2 parking fines in the last week but on both occasions I did put my reg number in. Has anyone reported a problem where they put their reg in and still received a fine?

On both those nights the fines were one of the (hot!) conversation topics with my partners. One had just got one while the other was worried about getting one so I know I took that extra time to put the right registration in (and hit the confirm buttons). If it had been a one off I might have thought I'd made a typo, but getting 2 fines both on days where I'd made the extra effort to get it right seems odd.

The Tx staff were really helpful in emailing me evidence I was climbing that night so I can appeal but it is still a big worry that Parking Eye will just say I failed to put my reg in and force me to pay £200. Without any kind of receipt from the tablet we enter our regs in, it's my word against Parking Eye which isn't much of a leg to stand on.

If Tx plan to keep using Parking Eye would they consider adding a way of emailing/printing a receipt once we've put our reg in? At least then you can show evidence you did put it in, rather than being at the mercy of any glitches in connection between the tablet and their system.

I appreciate Tx are trying to keep the car park free for their customers but 4 out of 9 of our climbing group have received fines in the last few weeks so I'd say it's the customers that are hurting the most from the new system.

Personally I'd rather just have an occasionally busy car park than have the worry of dealing with parking tickets.

Thanks

Izy

 Tobes 06 Jan 2020
In reply to Duncan Murray:

Hi Duncan, are you picking up email/correspondences?
 

Please check you junk folder as I suspect any one of us that has emailed you (as per your request here) with attached evidence may have gone into your spam folder. 
 

Although emails have been sent during the Christmas period, a lack of an ‘out of office’ automated response from the email address you supplied leaves things uncertain as to whether they have come through/you are receiving and dealing with them or not.

I've also used the ‘contact user’ facility on here to private message you. 
 

Any response either here or via email would be appreciated.

Again, please check your spam/junk folder for messages with supporting documents regarding this issue. 
 

regards. Toby 

Post edited at 19:40

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