/ Indoor walls closing due to coronavirus.

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
marktrik 17 Mar 2020

I have seen over the last few hours on social media that Substation in Macclesfield and Awersome walls in Stockport have both closed due to Coronavirus. 

Probably the safest thing to do as the resin walls/holds can hold the virus for a period of time.

Yet more businesses that are going to struggle....

Report
krikoman 17 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Northampton and Milton Keynes have both closed

Report
Fatclimber 17 Mar 2020
In reply to krikoman:

And Oakwood and Reading. It's going to be an odd few months. 

Report
marktrik 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Fatclimber:

I called Rope Race in Marple to see if they were open as planned to climb tomorrow. They said there open, at the moment.  

We are going to risk the weather and go outside on Thursday.... rain tomorrow. 

Would have done both but...

Report
LJJ77 17 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

The Boardroom near Queensferry has closed as of today

They are asking for those who have direct debit memberships and are in a position to continue paying them to continue until they reopen to help out with paying staff.

I am considering it and they do promise to make some sort of payback at a later date.

I wouldn’t want them to be forced to close permanently and the staff do deserve help so definitely considering it as long as it’s financially viable for me.

Report
kirsten 17 Mar 2020
In reply to LJJ77: Climbing Hangars are closed. 

Report
deepsoup 17 Mar 2020
In reply to kirsten:

The Depots have closed too.

Report
Martin W 18 Mar 2020

Alien Rock and Alien Bloc are closed, as is The Peak in Stirling.  Ratho still open as of the last update in Monday evening.  No mention of coronavirus on Edenrock's web site.

Report
Lemony 18 Mar 2020
In reply to LJJ77:

Yeah, I made that offer to Climb Newcastle too. Ultimately I'm fortunate enough to be able to continue earning through the outbreak so I have no qualms about continuing to spend as normal, even if I get less for my money for the time being.

Report
lorentz 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Lemony:

> Yeah, I made that offer to Climb Newcastle too. Ultimately I'm fortunate enough to be able to continue earning through the outbreak so I have no qualms about continuing to spend as normal, even if I get less for my money for the time being.

Same here. My work has totally stopped but I have a buffer and I'm happy to continue to support my wall of choice during the shutdown. Cheap at twice the price in terms of all the positives and benefits I've had from climbing over the years!

Report
mondite 18 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Arch and stronghold are shut.

Castle hasnt so far from the looks of things.

Report
johnt 18 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Newcastle Climbing Centre (The Church) closed. 

Report
David Bibby 18 Mar 2020
In reply to mondite:

Yonder too

Report
kipper12 18 Mar 2020
In reply to David Bibby:

To add to the list awesome walls are down too.  Apparently, for those on membership,plans, these are being frozen.

Report
Flinticus 18 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

If this post is the best place to report...

Glasgow Climbing Centre closed today

TCA Glasgow a day or two earlier (obviously both venues)

Report
kirsten 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Flinticus:
vauxwall, Harrow wall etc seem determined to push on with some kind of limited opening (sigh) and I presume Westway is still going as Everyone Active keep saying they’re  still open, and as a member I haven’t heard anything to the contrary.  I can only presume they haven’t realised just how dire this could get or they somehow think it’s going to be different here.  It seems pretty irresponsible at this point. 

Report
Lord_ash2000 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Eden rock in Carlisle has closed as of last night.

Report
marktrik 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

I went to Rope Race at Marple yesterday, they said there taking it day by day. I think it's a family run business so i guess it could potentially effect them alot.

Wash and hand sanitizer when we left.

I guess we are lucky as we live in the peak district  so tons to go at... weather permitting. 

Report
gman2012 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Ratho announcement on fbook:

We will be closing Edinburgh International Climbing Arena at close of play on Thursday 19th of March 2020 until further notice

Report
kirsten 19 Mar 2020
In reply to gman2012:

Castle closing 

Report
ewanjp 19 Mar 2020

Craggy island seems determined to stay open. Profoundly irresponsible. I queried it on facebook and got this response (https://www.facebook.com/CraggyGuildford/posts/10157776758310743):

"....We plan to remain open until such time as that decision is taken from us and have received a lot of support from our members who really value the escape that Craggy gives them during this difficult and uncertain time. Climbing at Craggy Island is optional, in the same way that visiting any gym or sports facility is optional.

Anyone that feels they are at risk of serious illness as a result of Coronavirus or would be jeopardising the health of their family and friends should stay away from any place where the public gather, not just climbing centres.

We understand that our stance will not please everyone but taking the decision to close would also not please everyone so we have to strike a balance and this is what we have chosen to do at this time....."

A) I don't think they understand how social distancing is supposed to work - it's not about one person avoiding a place B) their last paragraph is a basically a false equivalence - morally equating someones desire to climb to reducing overall deaths in the community is ridiculous.

Debating whether to cancel my membership after 10 years. I'm not going to go there, but wanted to support the business in this time of crisis. Now - not so much.

Report
Sean_J 19 Mar 2020
In reply to ewanjp:

Time for climbers to boycott any walls that do remain open?

Report
ewanjp 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Sean_J:

I am and so are my climbing friends. Pretty disappointed in Craggy.

Report
Ramon Marin 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Sean_J:

Well you have to understand that some walls are not financially robust, and some are waiting to be forced to be shut by the council so they can claim on their insurances to avoid laying off people, or so I was told by some people working there. 

Report
danieleaston 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

I wonder why some have and some haven't. In Bristol TCA (x2) and Bloc have closed, but Redpoint (x2) are still open. Maybe something to do with whether they own or rent the building perhaps? Redpoint has expanded recently so that could be a financial thing? Presumably TCA owns the church outright? I have no idea I'm just bored 'working from home'

Report
ewanjp 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Ramon Marin:

Yes I do understand that. It's an awful situation. Made worse by the insurers having already said that it's very unlikely business interruption insurance would cover it even if they are forced to close, meaning that that argument isn't really valid (though appreciate they may believe it does).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51927500

Report
SCC Changed 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Ramon Marin:

I am sceptical of this argument about needing to be ordered to close so that they can claim on their insurance. Our Insurers sent a generic email to all walls they insure saying that we weren't covered for the COVID 19 pandemic. Nothing much changes in the insurance industry.

Report
JoshOvki 19 Mar 2020
In reply to ewanjp:

> Profoundly irresponsible

Shouldn't the government insist they close and provide financial support then?


Actually reminds me to pop to the wall later for a coffee

Post edited at 12:11
Report
Slarti B 19 Mar 2020
In reply to kirsten:

> vauxwall, Harrow wall etc seem determined to push on 

Vauxwall and other LCC centres closing wef Thu 19 March.  Membership frozen until they re-open.

https://www.vauxwest.co.uk/news/lcc-covid-closure-update-1pm-wednesday-18th-march/

Report
Sean_J 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Ramon Marin:

I call BS on that, sorry.

Report
deepsoup 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Sean_J:

Regarding pubs, theatres, climbing walls etc..  I'm seeing quite a lot of two kinds of statement:

Businesses saying: "If we were closed compulsorily we could claim on our insurance, but just advising our customers to stay away and inviting us to 'do the right thing' and close voluntarily is killing us."

Insurers saying: "No, no, it wouldn't make any difference so let's just carry on like this."

I have had dealings with insurance companies, and have on the odd rare occasion had to make a claim.  (Or try to - as Tom Waits said the large print giveth and the small print taketh away.)  So maybe this is just my prejudice, but I'm inclined to call BS in the opposite direction to you.

Report
jp3 19 Mar 2020

Let me preface this by saying that I am staying away from indoor walls and crags outside.

But to solicit an opportunity to boycott walls in the future, that have chosen to stay open is, frankly a poor outlook.

Most of these are small businesses, propping up other small businesses & self-employed people (like cafes and instructors/route setters).

Any decision to close or stay open in these uncertain times is not taken lightly by these walls (I know this as fact, as I personally know a couple of gym owners who have taken opposing approaches).

Let’s not eat our own, be civil. By the time the world re-emerges from this, we are all going to need each other.

After the restrictions are removed, I personally, would like to see our climbing community come together and make concerted efforts to go back to these walls in force, to help these small businesses recover, as well return to the crags & support their local communities.

Maybe that’s something that can be done, an "annual climbing day"? Where we make a conscious effort to visit a new gym/crag and meet new people and climb new places.

Anyway, that's just my 2 pennies worth.

In the words of Jerry Springer, "take care of yourselves, and each other"

Jp

Report
PaulW 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Like all these things there is a balance. You have to trust the official advice, understand what it means and act accordingly.

Some businesses have chosen to interpret the advice as that it is OK to remain operating so long as suitable precautions are taken. They think they are following the advice correctly. If that is not the case then the government needs to clarify the advice it gives to remove any ambiguity.

Vitriol on forums or Facebook is probably not the best way forward. There will be plenty of that in the weeks to come.

Report
neilh 19 Mar 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

Insurance contracts may or may not have what is called " infectious disease " cover. This means that in the event of them being notified by a sutiable body that they are to close because of a notifiable disease ( like a local authority)  for more than ( typcially) a week then they can claim for loss of gross profit.

It is widely available for pubs, restuarants in the hospitality sector.It is sometimes included. sometimes not.You may have to pay a premium.

If you have cober it is possibly a god send at the moment. But claims mean you have to prove a lose and always take time to sort out.That is the nature of that type of contract.

Its possible that some walls have the cover, some do not.There is no standard.

Post edited at 13:08
Report
kevin stephens 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik: I see the Foundry has no mention of Covid-19 on their website or Facebook page. Climbing Works still maximum of 100 while Depot and Awesome Walls closed a few days ago.  I’m my opinion this is now grossly irresponsible of Foundry and Works. Fit climbers may be relatively immune from worst effect of the virus but can be excellent at carrying and spreading to others. It’s hard to imagine many environments more effective than indoor walls at spreading the virus. This seems to defeat the sacrifice of the rest of us working from home and dusting off the finger boards in doing our bit to slow down impact on our hard pressed NHS etc

Report
ewanjp 19 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Agreed. If people are interpreted the governments advice as 'carry on' when they're saying stay away from pubs etc, they need their moral compass looking at. Even my local library has now closed citing the spirit of the governments advice! Hopefully the government will be more clear in the coming days and / or take away the choice from those who are being wilfully blind (and that is not to say I don't sympathise with the business impacts).

Report
jabc 19 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

I don't think it is that straightforward and flinging around judgements like grossly irresponsible at people taking huge decisions with bad information in impossible timescales is just daft. Personally I've not been going to a climbing wall for about 3 weeks as I agree with the point on it being a good place to pick up coronavirus. However, I've continued to go to work and get on the train when necessary to go to meetings. I'm willing to forfeit some climbing fitness but not my salary by going awol from work. Though I am now working from home because I have been told to and can. There is no government directive for climbing walls to close. If I was having to close and before long sack all of my employees as a result I would like a clear instruction from government. If keeping it open for a few more days or weeks to allow consenting adults to climb kept the wolf from the door then that would be tempting. 

After all the governments advice as of just this time last week was wash your hands, reconsider cruises if you're old and don't come to work unless you're quite ill. With such major changes in outlook and advice it is appropriate in my view to show some sympathy with those making and on the end of decisions which could lead to hard working families being impoverished. 

Report
kevin stephens 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jabc:

The Government’s advice has generally been a week or more behind the responsible approach of many businesses, sports bodies etc and others and that other countries have shown to be necessary, many people are already losing all or part of their income. Many of us working at home are already on reduced hours. The medical advice (ahead of the government’s advice) is that minimising human contact is the only way to slow down and reduce the epidemic and hopefully get people back in work sooner. The staffing levels at the walls mentioned are low compared to the many businesses who will be impacted by the epidemic being prolonged. Other walls recognise this and have made the difficult decision to close.

i am not irresponsibly flinging around judgments but repeating advice from recognised experts ( ie not the politicians) in the UK and other cultural countries who are a week or two ahead of the UK

Report
kirsten 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Slarti B:

> Vauxwall and other LCC centres closing wef Thu 19 March.  Membership frozen until they re-open.

But then they go on to say they'll organise limited entry session.  Presumably disinfecting all holds between climbers?? 

Report
jabc 19 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

"Grossly irresponsible" sounds like a judgment to me. It's not advice anyway. 

I don't think it is for businesses, especially small ones to take soundings from many different experts and reach a view. It's not exactly like the experts are all speaking with the same voice after all. There is wide open water between a policy of herd immunity and suppression as a policy yet both have been advocated by experts. Many of the things we are now doing such as closing borders and travel restrictions were expressly advised against by experts at the beginning as they were deemed ineffective. 

I'm not saying there is no scope for individual judgement. But rather that it's unhelpful to criticise those who are acting perfectly within the scope of what the government advises. It is right in my view that we are led by elected politicians advised by experts. These are not simple matters and they go beyond the scope of any one individual's expertise. 

Post edited at 15:57
Report
neilh 19 Mar 2020
In reply to jabc:

Out of interest do you understand the Government advice for non-essential travel?

Report
jabc 19 Mar 2020
In reply to neilh:

Yes I think so. Foreign travel will be tricky. Individuals should make a call on whether it is essential. 

Its all here https://www.gov.uk/government/news/travel-advice-foreign-secreatary-statement-17-march-2020

What is your point though? Do you fly to the climbing wall? 

Today the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) has advised against all non-essential international travel, initially for a period of 30 days. This advice takes effect immediately.

Whether travel is essential or not is a personal decision and circumstances differ from person to person. It is for individuals themselves to make an informed decision based on the risks and FCO advice. Anyone still planning to travel should check the validity of their travel insurance.

Report
Scott K 19 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

More chance of catching it at the supermarket. The local climbing wall is still open but very quiet. Terrible for the staff if it closes as I would think a lot of them would be zero hours contracts.

Also bad for some of the walls who might not survive this is it lasts a few months.

Post edited at 18:26
Report
marktrik 19 Mar 2020
In reply to Sean_J:

Some walls and there businesses are family run so if it shuts then theres no income... it's the same for any small business.  There going to struggle.... they probably don't make that much money when times are good.

We climbed indoor yesterday and outdoor today, there was far more people out at the cragg today.

Report
L PercyBishton 19 Mar 2020

The Climbing Works has closed. 

Our insurance covers disruption to business from disease, with exclusions for flu or SARS-like virus pandemics. The argument that COVID19 is not a flu virus (as defined by the WHO) is unlikely to hold any water with the insurers though. 

Even if we could successfully argue this point, we would need to have a case of coronavirus at the wall to make a claim, and this fairly obviously isn't an option.

So we, like every other climbing wall you have ever been to, are uninsured and closed for an indefinite period of time. Today I had to lay off all of my part-time staff indefinitely. I feel utterly gutted, and helpless.

I know everybody is feeling the pressure, and we have some very tough times ahead. Let's hope that when we are allowed to use climbing walls again there are still some to use.

Report
mondite 19 Mar 2020
In reply to kirsten:

> But then they go on to say they'll organise limited entry session.  Presumably disinfecting all holds between climbers?? 

If they have a few people turning up who have all made an educated decision about the likelihood of contacting vulnerable people I am not really sure of the harm? I would give it a miss mostly due to the transport system to get there but if it was close I would consider it. Assuming the numbers are kept properly low. 

Be safer than turning up at the daily scrum to ensure there are at least 383838 toilet rolls in the house.

Report
The Wild Scallion 20 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Well the climbing unit in Derby has made no decision to close at all so far .

There's nothing on the website either about the situation.

I've emailed them this morning to ask them to pause my month pass .

As much as I'd really like to climb I'm not going to risk it .

Report
Ramon Marin 20 Mar 2020
In reply to PercyBishton:

That's devastating

Report
kirsten 20 Mar 2020
In reply to mondite:

“If they have a few people turning up who have all made an educated decision about the likelihood of contacting vulnerable people I am not really sure of the harm?”

You (general) may already be a carrier, those other people may already be carriers. you will be touching the same holds, door handles, toilet flushes, taps etc Those people at the wall may not contact vulnerable people, but they will contact other people, who will have contact with other people, who will have contact with other people, some of whom may be vulnerable. 

Percy’s post is gutting, as is the Climbing Hangar video etc, etc, (and i hope the government gets off its ass and puts some support in place very quickly, and if you can afford it, keep paying your membership) but people really need to wake up to what is happening in other countries. Your “harmless” climbing session or your quick pint in the pub could help kill someone. Just because that person isn’t stood in-front of you as you make the decision, doesn’t mean you aren’t playing a role.  Just stay home for a while, or go for a walk in the open air.  You’ll survive this,  maybe a bit bored, a bit less fit,  quite possibly a lot poorer,  but you’ll survive,  sadly  a fair number of people may not.  

Italy death toll is now higher than China’s and still rising, the army is taking away the bodies .... (they pretty much ignored the advice at first too) 

Post edited at 09:31
Report
planetmarshall 20 Mar 2020
In reply to PercyBishton:

> The Climbing Works has closed. 

> Our insurance covers disruption to business from disease, with exclusions for flu or SARS-like virus pandemics. The argument that COVID19 is not a flu virus (as defined by the WHO) is unlikely to hold any water with the insurers though. 

Unfortunately the virus that causes COVID-19 - SARS-CoV-2 - is very closely related to the virus that causes SARS (SARS CoV) and would almost certainly be considered by your insurance company to be a "SARS-like virus pandemic". Hope I'm wrong, though.

Report
La benya 20 Mar 2020
In reply to PercyBishton:

Check your buildings insurance to see if there is a BI/ LOR element (there should be). You still need the authorisities to officially close you down but you might get some relief from the rent aspect when they do. You could even petition the council to do so for you. 

Report
mondite 20 Mar 2020
In reply to kirsten:

> You (general) may already be a carrier, those other people may already be carriers. you will be touching the same holds, door handles, toilet flushes, taps etc Those people at the wall may not contact vulnerable people, but they will contact other people, who will have contact with other people, who will have contact with other people, some of whom may be vulnerable. 

Again it would depend. Someone may know well enough their contact is limited enough to be safe. Again I would rule it out since getting there would create that risk. However someone close by could well manage that.

Far safer than the halfwits heading down the shops everyday buying up all the goods which could be far better used by others and passing their germs everywhere. Quite possibly whilst driving their oversized car pumping out unsafe particles (especially if they had it mapped for "performance") which helps contribute to the general pollution levels killing large numbers every year.

Report
PaulW 20 Mar 2020
In reply to marktrik:

Craggy Island closing from Sunday

Report
pcassels 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Martin W:

Eden rock in Carlisle has now closed, as have our local walls at Keswick.

Report
In reply to marktrik:

More businesses are struggling and a lot of peoples are losing their job.

Yesterday a friend of mine told me their office is closed.

Very sad situation and this is the truth.

Report
marktrik 23 Mar 2020
In reply to holmesstephaniie:

All business are going to really struggle and this could change a lot of people's lives.

We just have to support each other best we can and don't forget keeping urself going both mentally and physically. 

Uncertain times ahead. 

Report

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.