/ Little to no improvement from endurance/sustain training

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GrahamGiles on 06 Mar 2014
Long storey short, Iv been training for a trip to kalymnos in April for the last 2.5 weeks (of which I have to use bouldering facilities as I cant often get a parter for lead) and find that I still find it very difficult to recover on steep ground (very impotent for Kalymnos) and also I struggle to keep composure when Im pumped (even more important for kalymnos!).

Im wondering If anyone has any advice or tips for training these two?

Some info if your interested:

-I train every other day unless achy or exhausted.
-3 hour sessions on week days, 4-5 hours on weekends.
-Naturally a boulderer so I have good strength and horrendous endurance/stamina. (Consistently get V6's and most V7s after some working while I struggle to get 7a's at the best of times unless the route is 10-15 meters)
-I have been training using 4 main methods:
1. 4x4's (4 boulder problems, 2 mins rest, repeat 3 more times and aim to fail on the 4th problem of the 4th set)
2. Aerobic climbing (100 move traverses making sure I dont have to shake out every 5 moves or less
3. Rock rings sustain training (found here: )
4. Long roof boulder problem link ups (typically 25 move powerful V5 with 1 no hands rest half way, followed by 25 move V3 which has lots of rests(generally leaves me panting and pumped out of my mind!)

Also if it helps, I plan on climbing: 'Ivi' 7b, 'Harlem Nights' 7b+ and potentially 'Aegialis' 7c, if im feeling strong enough(it is a 2 week holiday after all!).

Has anyone got any advice/tips to get the most out of my training, should I be more patient? try 2 days on one day off? do some running/cycling/rowing on rest days? Any help would be most appreciated.

Dandan82 - on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Gile5:

Sounds to me like you may be training too much, that would certainly be far too much climbing specific training for my body to handle! You need some recovery time between sessions otherwise you are just exhausting already exhausted muscles and you'll never make any improvements. Also I'm not sure I could 'train' for 4-5 hours in one hit, climb for 3 and train for 2 maybe, but a full 5 hour training session?
The exercises you are doing seem like good choices, but two and a half weeks is not a long time, you won't see improvements overnight, be patient!
JayPee630 - on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Dandan82:

2.5 weeks is not very long!
Ged Desforges - on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Gile5:

You've only been training for 2.5 weeks? Thats nothing! be patient.

If I was training for kalymnos, I'd ditch the 4x4's and roof bouldering (if, as you say, you're already pretty strong), and just concentrate on volume. Maybe laps on long (at least 50 move circuits), rest for as long as it takes you to climb it, then repeat 5-7 times. If you fail before the 5th, it's too hard so choose an easier one.
Cake on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Gile5:

Also, with it being soon, don't injure yourself in the last two weeks by pulling too hard. Just get loads of volume in the period immediately beforehand, doing loads of easyish stuff.

ukb & bmc shark - on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Gile5:
The best stamina/recovery training I have found are 20/10s on a steep board. I credit this for a very successful Kalymnos trip a couple of years ago when I managed to onsight Priapos and be virtually recovered by the time I got to the belay.

Find a 20 move circuits just below onsight limit.
Start off with all 20 moves of the circuit and then 20 seconds rest followed by 10 moves (back) of the circuit then 10 secs rest repeated four times = 120 moves. Take 10 min rests between sets and aim for 3 sets in a session.
Post edited at 16:21
carl dawson - on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Gile5:

You sound like you'd make short work of the Grande Grotta routes!

Add these to the other useful suggestions:
Make your circuits with less traversing and more uphill and downhill (50 moves are plenty though).
Add into your circuits, 'pretend clips' to get you used to hanging/locking on one arm… don't just dash around your circuits.
Add in 'steep almost-rests' and get your mind used to how much recovery you can actually get.
Add in peculiar rest techniques (like guppy-hangs) and see how much they 'work' for you.
Come to the new Circuit Room at ROKT (Brighouse)! All 50-move stamina circuits from 5+ to 8a.

Have a great trip to Kaly.
PS There are better routes than IVI and Harlem Nights to aim for, though Priapos is a 'must'.
Sink41 on 07 Mar 2014
In reply to Gile5:

You wont be performing 100% when putting your body under a heavy training load, so make sure you ease off a little bit and get more rest 1-2 weeks before trip happens so you are at peak form.

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