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In my dim distant memory I saw somewhere a workout (not sure if it was for fingerboard, pull up bars etc) for lanky weak people who lacked strength for overhanging terrain. Looked on his website but couldn't find anything - does this ring any bells with anyone and if anyone has it could they post a copy (or e-mail me one)?
In reply to Stone_donkey: It was in a climbing mag a while back, I copied it down and will search it out and post it-e mail me if I forget.
Rich
Rich
In reply to staceyjg:
The greatest myth in climbing!
All you need is technique.. nonsense! You need guns. That's like saying you don't need petrol for a car you just need to learn how to drive all the fancy drop knees and toe hooks aren't worth a one arm pull up ...
If you do find the article i'd be really interested in seeing it too
The greatest myth in climbing!
All you need is technique.. nonsense! You need guns. That's like saying you don't need petrol for a car you just need to learn how to drive all the fancy drop knees and toe hooks aren't worth a one arm pull up ...
If you do find the article i'd be really interested in seeing it too
In reply to Kemics:
Not sure if this is a troll but I think core is one of the most important things on steep ground, especially if you're tall.
I'd take technique over a one armer any day, that's what usually gets me up stuff...
> (In reply to staceyjg)
>
> The greatest myth in climbing!
>
> All you need is technique.. nonsense! You need guns.
>
> The greatest myth in climbing!
>
> All you need is technique.. nonsense! You need guns.
Not sure if this is a troll but I think core is one of the most important things on steep ground, especially if you're tall.
I'd take technique over a one armer any day, that's what usually gets me up stuff...
In reply to Solsbury: Tall, weak and rubbish at steep stuff. Sounds just like me! Maybe you could email me a copy, too - if it's not too much trouble. Cheers, Mike
In reply to cha1n:
OP isn't a troll. To quote BMW - power is nothing without control.
Strength and technique will always be needed together, but lets not hijack the thread...
Stone Donkey: If Rich Popp doesn't come up with the goods, you could try getting in touch with Gresham himself - He's quite approachable and may have the article to hand.
Good luck, Kev.
OP isn't a troll. To quote BMW - power is nothing without control.
Strength and technique will always be needed together, but lets not hijack the thread...
Stone Donkey: If Rich Popp doesn't come up with the goods, you could try getting in touch with Gresham himself - He's quite approachable and may have the article to hand.
Good luck, Kev.
In reply to Kevster:
I thought BMWs slogan was sod control stick the power in the back and see what happens.
I think that slogan was Pirelli .
/pedant.
I thought BMWs slogan was sod control stick the power in the back and see what happens.
I think that slogan was Pirelli .
/pedant.
In reply to Stone_donkey: Im tall and weak. Wouldnt mind a read if you can find it and wouldn't mind emailing it.
Cheers
Cheers
In reply to Stone_donkey: Nope, it's not a troll! I saw this mentioned somewhere on Fit Club a while back but can't find it. I'm working on technique too but I know from my (lack of) bouldering prowess that a bit more strength wouldn't go amiss either as I'm cr*p at one-arm lockoffs etc. I can certainly make something up, but if Neil's already got something he recommends then that's good enough for me!
In reply to Kemics:
"But if you can do a 1-arm lock off (like most climbers) yet can’t do the same on an inverted row, your training is messed up."
http://climbstrong.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/pull-ups-are-a-waste-of-time/
> (In reply to staceyjg)
> all the fancy drop knees and toe hooks aren't worth a one arm pull up ...
>
> all the fancy drop knees and toe hooks aren't worth a one arm pull up ...
>
"But if you can do a 1-arm lock off (like most climbers) yet can’t do the same on an inverted row, your training is messed up."
http://climbstrong.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/pull-ups-are-a-waste-of-time/
In reply to Kemics:
Rubbish!!
You don't need to do a one arm pull up, just a one arm lock off! Once you have that mastered, technique goes a long way and stops you from having to do one arm pull ups!!
> (In reply to staceyjg)
>
> The greatest myth in climbing!
>
> All you need is technique.. nonsense! You need guns. That's like saying you don't need petrol for a car you just need to learn how to drive all the fancy drop knees and toe hooks aren't worth a one arm pull up ...
>
> The greatest myth in climbing!
>
> All you need is technique.. nonsense! You need guns. That's like saying you don't need petrol for a car you just need to learn how to drive all the fancy drop knees and toe hooks aren't worth a one arm pull up ...
Rubbish!!
You don't need to do a one arm pull up, just a one arm lock off! Once you have that mastered, technique goes a long way and stops you from having to do one arm pull ups!!
In reply to mloskot:
>
> "But if you can do a 1-arm lock off (like most climbers) yet can’t do the same on an inverted row, your training is messed up."
>
Doubt I can do either without a foot on something > "But if you can do a 1-arm lock off (like most climbers) yet can’t do the same on an inverted row, your training is messed up."
>
In reply to mloskot
Ooh ! a whole new website to spend hours reading when i should be training/climbing :0)
I take it the guy doing the inverted row has his feet on something ?
I am nowhere near doing a 1 arm on either side but can do those on my fingerboard with feet on something.
Ooh ! a whole new website to spend hours reading when i should be training/climbing :0)
I take it the guy doing the inverted row has his feet on something ?
I am nowhere near doing a 1 arm on either side but can do those on my fingerboard with feet on something.
In reply to mloskot:
Wow, thanks so much for posting that link, that's an incredible resource! I've been trying to get a bit more focused on training for a while and that's got so much easy to digest information.
and pfft I'm no where close to being able to do a 1 armed lock off Hell i'm too feeble to campus a single rung.
Wow, thanks so much for posting that link, that's an incredible resource! I've been trying to get a bit more focused on training for a while and that's got so much easy to digest information.
and pfft I'm no where close to being able to do a 1 armed lock off Hell i'm too feeble to campus a single rung.
In reply to Kemics:
Campusing is all in the technique, there's a knack to getting the timing/momentum right that one day you'll just get and suddenly you'll gain a rung or two almost instantly. It's surprisingly for me all about the lower hand, my best campus results are when my dominant hand is on 1 rather than on 4 or whatever when I start my throw for the higher rung.
Campusing is all in the technique, there's a knack to getting the timing/momentum right that one day you'll just get and suddenly you'll gain a rung or two almost instantly. It's surprisingly for me all about the lower hand, my best campus results are when my dominant hand is on 1 rather than on 4 or whatever when I start my throw for the higher rung.
In reply to biscuit:
Yes, feet rest on something (e.g. on floor making acute angle between floor and your body or on bench making starting position of body parallel to floor, etc.)
There is an important difference between pull-up or lock-off on bar/fingerbaord versus inverted row. It is a plane of movement is different. On steep climb or roof, you never do moves along the plane you do pull-ups (unless you cut loose and campus roofs all the way ).
> (In reply to mloskot
>
> Ooh ! a whole new website to spend hours reading when i should be training/climbing )0)
>
> Ooh ! a whole new website to spend hours reading when i should be training/climbing )0)
> I take it the guy doing the inverted row has his feet on something ?
Yes, feet rest on something (e.g. on floor making acute angle between floor and your body or on bench making starting position of body parallel to floor, etc.)
> I am nowhere near doing a 1 arm on either side but can do those
> on my fingerboard with feet on something.
> on my fingerboard with feet on something.
There is an important difference between pull-up or lock-off on bar/fingerbaord versus inverted row. It is a plane of movement is different. On steep climb or roof, you never do moves along the plane you do pull-ups (unless you cut loose and campus roofs all the way ).
In reply to mloskot:
Oh how i wish i could.
By coincidence i was on a 7b+ roof yesterday. Massive holds all the way but just bloody steep without respite for about15 mtrs. Glad to say it is my forearms hurting today not my biceps and back so i must have been using technique and not campussing :0)
Unfortunately i've just entered into a competition with AJM to see who can get to 50 pull ups in 5 minutes first. We're both on 42 at the minute. More an endurance thing than strength training but after i've done that ( for my ego ) i will start on inverts ( possible weighted ) as i want to go into a strength phase.
> (In reply to biscuit)
>
> There is an important difference between pull-up or lock-off on bar/fingerbaord versus inverted row. It is a plane of movement is different. On steep climb or roof, you never do moves along the plane you do pull-ups (unless you cut loose and campus roofs all the way ).
> There is an important difference between pull-up or lock-off on bar/fingerbaord versus inverted row. It is a plane of movement is different. On steep climb or roof, you never do moves along the plane you do pull-ups (unless you cut loose and campus roofs all the way ).
Oh how i wish i could.
By coincidence i was on a 7b+ roof yesterday. Massive holds all the way but just bloody steep without respite for about15 mtrs. Glad to say it is my forearms hurting today not my biceps and back so i must have been using technique and not campussing :0)
Unfortunately i've just entered into a competition with AJM to see who can get to 50 pull ups in 5 minutes first. We're both on 42 at the minute. More an endurance thing than strength training but after i've done that ( for my ego ) i will start on inverts ( possible weighted ) as i want to go into a strength phase.
In reply to Stone_donkey: If no-one digs this up by the end of the day I'll try contacting Neil direct as Kev suggested and see if he'd be kind enough to send to us either for me to post here or send to all who've asked for a copy.
In reply to biscuit:
Have you seen this - http://50pullups.com/
I used the push up equivalent. Found the structured training really helped maximize my gains.
Have you seen this - http://50pullups.com/
I used the push up equivalent. Found the structured training really helped maximize my gains.
In reply to Stone_donkey:
Here you go, neil Grishams workout for lanky weak people who cant keep their feet on steep rock, ie me. Copied roughly from article in British mag a while ago, might not be completely acurate-
Pulse raiser of choice
Dumbells
3xstraight arm shoulder raise
3xabove head presses
3xchest flys
3xbicep curls
Pullups
6 reps 2 arm (maximum wieght added)
4 reps 2 arm ( " " " )
2 reps 1 arm ( with assistance) both sides.
1 rep slow lower down ( with assistance) both sides.
2 rep 1 arm pull up ( with assistance)
4 rep 2 arm pull ups ( with maximum weight added)
Lock offs
2 attempts at one arm lock off at full lock and at 90 degrees
power pull up
3 sets 4/5 very rapid pull ups-explosive
3 min rest between sets
travelling pull ups
Pull up centre, hold 2 secs-move over to right hold 2 secs, move over to left hold 2 secs, return to centre hold 2 sec- continue until drop low.
front lever
3 attempts
hanging knee raises
3 sets to failure.
And that is it, all detail re rests, assistance etc is missing from my scribbles so you will have to adjust to suit. I am not strong and have been able to adapt into intersting and potent work out-just got to do it regularly. I have been doing it on big jugs on fingerboard ( with assistance from crimps where appropriate for me-pulleys and bugy cords are a step to far) As it all on jugs have been able to do deadhangs after and in fact my longest deadhangs have all come after doing an adapted version of this.
Good luck
Rich
Here you go, neil Grishams workout for lanky weak people who cant keep their feet on steep rock, ie me. Copied roughly from article in British mag a while ago, might not be completely acurate-
Pulse raiser of choice
Dumbells
3xstraight arm shoulder raise
3xabove head presses
3xchest flys
3xbicep curls
Pullups
6 reps 2 arm (maximum wieght added)
4 reps 2 arm ( " " " )
2 reps 1 arm ( with assistance) both sides.
1 rep slow lower down ( with assistance) both sides.
2 rep 1 arm pull up ( with assistance)
4 rep 2 arm pull ups ( with maximum weight added)
Lock offs
2 attempts at one arm lock off at full lock and at 90 degrees
power pull up
3 sets 4/5 very rapid pull ups-explosive
3 min rest between sets
travelling pull ups
Pull up centre, hold 2 secs-move over to right hold 2 secs, move over to left hold 2 secs, return to centre hold 2 sec- continue until drop low.
front lever
3 attempts
hanging knee raises
3 sets to failure.
And that is it, all detail re rests, assistance etc is missing from my scribbles so you will have to adjust to suit. I am not strong and have been able to adapt into intersting and potent work out-just got to do it regularly. I have been doing it on big jugs on fingerboard ( with assistance from crimps where appropriate for me-pulleys and bugy cords are a step to far) As it all on jugs have been able to do deadhangs after and in fact my longest deadhangs have all come after doing an adapted version of this.
Good luck
Rich
In reply to Solsbury: That's great Rich, thanks. I'll print off and stick in my garage next to my rock rings. Is a 'front lever' where the body stays vertical and the legs go parallel to the floor (ie make a right angle) or where you try and get the whole body parallel to the floor like in the inverted rowing link that was posted earlier in the thread?
In reply to staceyjg: power, power and then some more just to be safe.
In reply to biscuit:
You tried Eye of the storm at PdR cave yet? Sounds similar.
Your roof climb sounds fun too, does it have a name?....
You tried Eye of the storm at PdR cave yet? Sounds similar.
Your roof climb sounds fun too, does it have a name?....
In reply to Solsbury: flippin 'eck Tucker, that's quite a list - thanks for that
In reply to Kevster:
Not sure on the name. It's in the cave immediately left of the Poema cave - known as the black cave. You scramble up the left side for about 10 mtrs onto a big platform to belay.
There are a couple of belay bolts with rings put in so you'll know you're in the right place. Use the bolt at the back, not on the left. The one on the left is for belaying people on a tope rope i think.
First bolt is up high on the left and leads to a hands off using a big tufa. Then it's off up and left. Well chalked, good holds but just too sapping for me. Enjoy ! I'm going to come back to it, it's a brilliant route i just haven't got the stamina at the minute.
Not sure on the name. It's in the cave immediately left of the Poema cave - known as the black cave. You scramble up the left side for about 10 mtrs onto a big platform to belay.
There are a couple of belay bolts with rings put in so you'll know you're in the right place. Use the bolt at the back, not on the left. The one on the left is for belaying people on a tope rope i think.
First bolt is up high on the left and leads to a hands off using a big tufa. Then it's off up and left. Well chalked, good holds but just too sapping for me. Enjoy ! I'm going to come back to it, it's a brilliant route i just haven't got the stamina at the minute.
In reply to biscuit:
As for Eye of the Storm - no. Had a look at the 7b to the left and actually ended up trying Shark Attack as it had fixed draws in, until i found that the in situ draws were not good. Got to 4th bolt and bottled it.
As for Eye of the Storm - no. Had a look at the 7b to the left and actually ended up trying Shark Attack as it had fixed draws in, until i found that the in situ draws were not good. Got to 4th bolt and bottled it.
In reply to Solsbury:
Bloody hell I did this two days ago - my first specific climbing training since I was at Uni in the 80s. My arms are still screaming this morning so it must be good.
E
>
>>
> Pullups
> 6 reps 2 arm (maximum wieght added)
> 4 reps 2 arm ( " " " )
> 2 reps 1 arm ( with assistance) both sides.
> 1 rep slow lower down ( with assistance) both sides.
> 2 rep 1 arm pull up ( with assistance)
> 4 rep 2 arm pull ups ( with maximum weight added)
>
> Lock offs
> 2 attempts at one arm lock off at full lock and at 90 degrees
>
> power pull up
> 3 sets 4/5 very rapid pull ups-explosive
> 3 min rest between sets
>
> travelling pull ups
> Pull up centre, hold 2 secs-move over to right hold 2 secs, move over to left hold 2 secs, return to centre hold 2 sec- continue until drop low.
>
> front lever
> 3 attempts
>
> hanging knee raises
> 3 sets to failure.
>
>
> Pullups
> 6 reps 2 arm (maximum wieght added)
> 4 reps 2 arm ( " " " )
> 2 reps 1 arm ( with assistance) both sides.
> 1 rep slow lower down ( with assistance) both sides.
> 2 rep 1 arm pull up ( with assistance)
> 4 rep 2 arm pull ups ( with maximum weight added)
>
> Lock offs
> 2 attempts at one arm lock off at full lock and at 90 degrees
>
> power pull up
> 3 sets 4/5 very rapid pull ups-explosive
> 3 min rest between sets
>
> travelling pull ups
> Pull up centre, hold 2 secs-move over to right hold 2 secs, move over to left hold 2 secs, return to centre hold 2 sec- continue until drop low.
>
> front lever
> 3 attempts
>
> hanging knee raises
> 3 sets to failure.
>
>
Bloody hell I did this two days ago - my first specific climbing training since I was at Uni in the 80s. My arms are still screaming this morning so it must be good.
E
In reply to Enty:
My first go at this last night...
Dumbells
3xstraight arm shoulder raise
3xabove head presses
3xchest flys
3xbicep curls
Wasn't sure what this meant so did 3 sets of 8 each exercise, except for the chest flys as don't have a bench. Did 10 close arm pushups instead
Pullups
6 reps 2 arm (maximum wieght added) - Did 6, no extra weight
4 reps 2 arm ( " " " ) - Did 4, ""
2 reps 1 arm ( with assistance) both sides. - Tried doing this half-standing on a ladder. I suspect there's a knack to this - just felt like I was moving up and down with my legs
1 rep slow lower down ( with assistance) both sides. - Ditto
2 rep 1 arm pull up ( with assistance). - Ditto
4 rep 2 arm pull ups ( with maximum weight added) - Did 4, no extra weight
Lock offs
2 attempts at one arm lock off at full lock and at 90 degrees - Hahaha, not a chance. Didn't even try 90°
power pull up
3 sets 4/5 very rapid pull ups-explosive - My pull ups only have 1 speed! Did 1 set of 3 then 2 sets of 2, no faster than normal though
travelling pull ups
Pull up centre, hold 2 secs-move over to right hold 2 secs, move over to left hold 2 secs, return to centre hold 2 sec- continue until drop low. - Managed to do just 1 set, don't think I was really locked off though, more just at top of travel
front lever 3 attempts- I have no idea what a front lever is...
hanging knee raises
3 sets to failure. - Did a few but my arms gave up before my core got tired, which seems to defeat the point of the exercise.
So, what to do if you're too weak to do the Weaklings workout?!? This is going to be harder than i thought....
My first go at this last night...
Dumbells
3xstraight arm shoulder raise
3xabove head presses
3xchest flys
3xbicep curls
Wasn't sure what this meant so did 3 sets of 8 each exercise, except for the chest flys as don't have a bench. Did 10 close arm pushups instead
Pullups
6 reps 2 arm (maximum wieght added) - Did 6, no extra weight
4 reps 2 arm ( " " " ) - Did 4, ""
2 reps 1 arm ( with assistance) both sides. - Tried doing this half-standing on a ladder. I suspect there's a knack to this - just felt like I was moving up and down with my legs
1 rep slow lower down ( with assistance) both sides. - Ditto
2 rep 1 arm pull up ( with assistance). - Ditto
4 rep 2 arm pull ups ( with maximum weight added) - Did 4, no extra weight
Lock offs
2 attempts at one arm lock off at full lock and at 90 degrees - Hahaha, not a chance. Didn't even try 90°
power pull up
3 sets 4/5 very rapid pull ups-explosive - My pull ups only have 1 speed! Did 1 set of 3 then 2 sets of 2, no faster than normal though
travelling pull ups
Pull up centre, hold 2 secs-move over to right hold 2 secs, move over to left hold 2 secs, return to centre hold 2 sec- continue until drop low. - Managed to do just 1 set, don't think I was really locked off though, more just at top of travel
front lever 3 attempts- I have no idea what a front lever is...
hanging knee raises
3 sets to failure. - Did a few but my arms gave up before my core got tired, which seems to defeat the point of the exercise.
So, what to do if you're too weak to do the Weaklings workout?!? This is going to be harder than i thought....
In reply to Enty: and others
Would you recommend getting a pull up bar or rock rings for this sort of training?
Would you recommend getting a pull up bar or rock rings for this sort of training?
In reply to AJM:
Like lying on the floor, only without the floor there.
Maybe I'm just abnormally weak, but front levers seem to me to be so massively difficult and require such specifically trained strength that it seems a bit silly to say 'x attempts' as part of a routine - it's never going to get any easier. Might as well put '3 attempts at pulling bus with nipples)
> (In reply to Stone_donkey)
>
> Front lever
> =
> hands on bar, body horizontal and straight
>
> Front lever
> =
> hands on bar, body horizontal and straight
Like lying on the floor, only without the floor there.
Maybe I'm just abnormally weak, but front levers seem to me to be so massively difficult and require such specifically trained strength that it seems a bit silly to say 'x attempts' as part of a routine - it's never going to get any easier. Might as well put '3 attempts at pulling bus with nipples)
In reply to nufkin: i agree it's not really an easy task. There are lesser versions though.
Hang from bar and roll your knees up to your chest whilst rotating backwards. You end up with your body horizontal and your knees under your chin. This is a normal starting point forworking front levers.
You can also then slowly extend one leg out and keep the other tucked in to make it harder but still progressive.
A lot of people are now placing importance on the lower back as a weak point in the chain for steep ground.
After getting totally battered on steep ground yesterday it seems to be my biceps that are aching from undercuts and laybacking-and bad technique.
Hang from bar and roll your knees up to your chest whilst rotating backwards. You end up with your body horizontal and your knees under your chin. This is a normal starting point forworking front levers.
You can also then slowly extend one leg out and keep the other tucked in to make it harder but still progressive.
A lot of people are now placing importance on the lower back as a weak point in the chain for steep ground.
After getting totally battered on steep ground yesterday it seems to be my biceps that are aching from undercuts and laybacking-and bad technique.
In reply to AJM: Ah, I wondered if that was it, based on the inverted row discussion earlier in the thread. I couldn't do it, or even get vaguely close, but I'm guessing this would be a smidgeon easier if I were using a pull up bar rather that the rock rings I'm using. I think I'd feel more secure trying to get my back parallel with a concrete garage floor if I had the extra security of my hands wrapped around a bar...
In reply to Stone_donkey:
Wear your harness and clip cord to it that goes over the bar and to some weights either suspended in a rucksack or tied on. You can use water bottles in a rucksack or anything heavy you have lying around.
This makes an assistance pulley and means you can do the ones that are currently too hard but will be able to monitor your progress.
NO EXCUSES !
Wear your harness and clip cord to it that goes over the bar and to some weights either suspended in a rucksack or tied on. You can use water bottles in a rucksack or anything heavy you have lying around.
This makes an assistance pulley and means you can do the ones that are currently too hard but will be able to monitor your progress.
NO EXCUSES !
In reply to biscuit: Good idea - I was thinking of using an old harness for adding the weights if I ever get to the point that the current routine is too easy (hahaha); didn't think of rigging it up the other way round
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