UKC

Parking Ticket at Depot Manchester

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 stemill 04 Jan 2022

Got a parking ticket tonight whilst at the Depot Manchester. It's £100!! reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

Anyone else in the same boat? Looks like a private firm rather than a proper police/council thing. Are you planning on paying it??

The Depot's own parking is (like a lot of centres) woefully inadequate. Like most I've been parking on the faded double yellows on the industrial road the centre is on for years without incident. They've recently relaid the road and repainted the double yellows and it seems that they have decided to start enforcing them too.

Got to admit i'm a little miffed that the Depot hasn't highlighted this via email, social media, on here, or in the centre. There is going to be even more demand for parking now the (brilliant) new training area has opened. Where are we all going to park without letting this company have a field day fining us all? Do the Depot need to come to some kind of agreement with them??

42
In reply to stemill:

FYI they did make a big fuss about it when the lines where repainted and the ticket guys started coming round. I was there a few times recently and they where doing customer call outs to remind customers.

Double yellow lines have always meant no parking I guess nobody cared before but now they do.

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OP stemill 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Euan McKendrick:

I must have missed any notice at the centre - to be fair i am fairly unobservant!

I've been a regular customer since the centre opened 5/6(?) years ago. I generally go on a weekday evening and almost always have to park on the road or in one of the other small business car parks nearby. This is not me being lazy, there must be easily more cars doing this than on the Depot's allocated spaces.

If there is somewhere else local where people are legally parking please spread the info on here so we don't all end up getting fined.

Post edited at 21:21
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 Jenny C 04 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

The Works has an agreement with local businesses that when they are closed climbers can use their parking spaces. Might be worth the depot asking neighbouring businesses to see if something similar could be arranged for evenings/weekends.

Edit - I'm surprised adequate parking provision wasnt required as part of their planning application. If the double yelllows have always technically been there this clearly isn't a new issue, just one that's previously been ignored/missed by the parking wardens.

Post edited at 21:36
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 greg_may_ 04 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

Bike rack is usually pretty empty inside.... perhaps an option. Or public transport. Or walk/run for a warm up?

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 FreshSlate 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Euan McKendrick:

> FYI they did make a big fuss about it when the lines where repainted and the ticket guys started coming round. I was there a few times recently and they where doing customer call outs to remind customers.

> Double yellow lines have always meant no parking I guess nobody cared before but now they do.

If they ever intend to be full, they have about 20-30 parking spaces for a centre just off the motorway with a capacity of 350. They've expanded twice over Covid whilst the parking situation was already dire. 

It would make sense for them to strike a deal with the council / local businesses to not enforce the double yellows at certain times. Depot's business model is literally dependent on people being willing to chance a ticket at this stage.

1
OP stemill 04 Jan 2022
In reply to greg_may_:

I'd love for cycling to be an option but realistically travelling from St Helens and these days with my 12 year old son it just isn't! Similarly public transport is a 2 hour+, nearly £20 round trip

 Pingboy 04 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

The new parking enforcement has encouraged me to cycle more, but I understand that's not practical for everyone.

There's on street parking across the main road from the Depot on Textilose Road

 deacondeacon 04 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

Can you park at the 'park & ride'?

OP stemill 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Pingboy:

Cheers for the tip, I'll give it a look next week. Looks like a similar road to Mosley Road on Google Maps if it gets popular there'll be a double yellow on both sides of it soon!! 

Bottom line is there isn't enough parking provided by the Depot, however there is plenty of unused parking in the vicinity. The landowners have clearly cottoned on that there's money to be made and now there's a private parking collection firm scalping people for what they've been doing for years.

 Jamie Wakeham 04 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

It's not a fine.  it's an invoice from a private company.  At this stage it isn't legally enforceable - but some PPCs do take their unpaid invoices to the small claims court, and an order there is enforceable and will result in a CCJ if you don't pay up.

However, almost all the PPCs don't get their paperwork right and will fold at first or second stage appeal.  Which company is it?

Does The Depot actually own the land the double yellows are on?  If so, step one is to ask them to instruct their agent (ie the PPC) to cancel.

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 Ian Patterson 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Pingboy:

> The new parking enforcement has encouraged me to cycle more, but I understand that's not practical for everyone.

> There's on street parking across the main road from the Depot on Textilose Road

This, seen quite a few people walking across from there, lots of on road parking and only a couple of minutes walk.

Also seems to be no problem with parking in closed businesses.

 Ian Patterson 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> Does The Depot actually own the land the double yellows are on?  If so, step one is to ask them to instruct their agent (ie the PPC) to cancel.

Definitely not, think its Peel Holdings.  Believe part of the issue was parking making it difficult for lorries.  Road has been resurfaced and new double yellows are really clear so it is difficult to complain too much though I don't know the rules around enforcement on private land.

OP stemill 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Ian Patterson:

I'll give this a look or the park & ride, cheers. I really don't mind walking a bit, there used to be a similar situation at the Sandhills Hangar, parking further and further away as it got more popular!

For those familiar with the parking situation at the depot I was on the same side as the centre - with many other, i assume similarly ticketed cars. It didn't cross my mind that I'd get a ticket as there were still so many people parked there (noticeably none on the other side).

Post edited at 22:27
OP stemill 04 Jan 2022
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

It's UKPC. I'm sure it's nothing to do with the Depot directly, just the landowners cottoned on to the chance of a quick buck. I'll probably just pay up, can't be arsed with the hassle of a face off.

I'll look for somewhere else handy-ish to park in future and if that can't be found then look for somewhere else to climb on a weekday evening!

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 Qwerty2019 05 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

Amazes me how people (I dont exclude myself) will risk parking on yellows to go and do some exercise rather than walk 10mins.

Draw a circle around the depot ( i have been multiple times and know the double yellows you mention) based on a 10 minute walk.  I absolutely guarentee a no risk parking space in that circle will be readily available.

Its the same at eden rock carlisle (and again i dont exclude myself).  The parking can be rammed but people will just dump cars on double yellows, block business entrances or even in police station car park opposite.  If i did the same 10 minute circle there it would encompass hundreds of easy legal parking spaces but we dont like walking out of the centre when its cold and walking for 10 mins do we

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 Jamie Wakeham 05 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

I'd (genuinely) like to know from my dislikers what they dislike?  I'm really quite sure that my post was 100% accurate.  I'm making no comment on whether the OP should have parked there, just observing that the PPC will almost certainly not have done their job right.

OP: paying is definitely the easiest way to make it go away.  You might want to know that UKPC are among the least competent of the lot.  There's legislation (POFA 2012) that they have to comply with in order to obtain your details from the DVLA, and their signage is basically never compliant.  Their paperwork almost always fails as well.  They are very easy to beat, in the space of two or perhaps three formal letters, if you want.

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 Dax H 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Ian Patterson:

> Also seems to be no problem with parking in closed businesses.

If you are parking in closed businesses please look out for and heed and signs. A gym opened next to my old workshop and despite massi e signs saying no parking, 25/7 access needed Everytime I got called out after hours I had to get people to move cars. 

 Rick51 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

As far as I can remember the signage is only as you enter the road. I haven't noticed any change to this recently but I haven't been looking. There used to be signs all down the road but they 'disappeared' and were not replaced so there is nothing opposite the Depot. That might be grounds for appeal?

 Moacs 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Qwerty2019:

> Amazes me how people (I dont exclude myself) will risk parking on yellows to go and do some exercise rather than walk 10mins.

> Draw a circle around the depot ( i have been multiple times and know the double yellows you mention) based on a 10 minute walk.  I absolutely guarentee a no risk parking space in that circle will be readily available.

do the same for Oxford Brookes and you won't find one!

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> I'd (genuinely) like to know from my dislikers what they dislike?

My advice would be to just turn off the like/dislike buttons. The forum is a much jollier place without them!

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 Iamgregp 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Qwerty2019:

It can be confusing though - for example the road up to and down the side of The Castle has and always has had double yellows all the way along it, and no parking signs along the fence round the back but it's a private road which isn't (or is?) monitored by The Castle and so is effectively the car park.

Same at The Reach - the road up to that has double yellows and No Parking signs everywhere, which apparently don't count for anything at the weekend so everyone parks all over them...

If I rocked up to somewhere I hadn't climbed at before and there were cars all over the double yellows, I'd probably assume the same was true there!?

I'm with you, I never park illegally as I'd rather walk 5 mins than get a ticket, but I don't think I've ever climbed at The Reach or The Castle  without parking on double yellows! 

In reply to Jenny C:

> Edit - I'm surprised adequate parking provision wasn't required as part of their planning application.

I wish. There's space for about 6 cars at the Nottingham Depot.

1
 Niall_H 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Moacs:

> do the same for Oxford Brookes and you won't find one!

Have they made Cheney lane paid-for now?

( I'm close enough that I just walk up that d*mn hill ! )

 deepsoup 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

> I wish. There's space for about 6 cars at the Nottingham Depot.

Careful what you wish for though.  If adequate parking provision had been required by their planning application it's more likely that would have meant no Depot than adequate parking.

 Jamie Wakeham 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

> My advice would be to just turn off the like/dislike buttons. The forum is a much jollier place without them!

You probably have a point!  I'm intrigued to know if my dislikers think I am factually wrong, or just that they dislike me trying to help the OP.

Moacs (and Niall): I've never had a problem finding somewhere to park at Brookes in the mornings, either on Cheney Lane or Warneford Lane, but yes, you'll have a hell of a job getting a space in the afternoons or evenings, especially in term time.  Thankfully I usually go at about 10am!

Iamgregp: it's worth mentioning that DYL have no legal meaning on private land, other than what signage states.  And UKPC's signage is effectively useless.

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 ThunderCat 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> I'd (genuinely) like to know from my dislikers what they dislike?  I'm really quite sure that my post was 100% accurate

Haha. You've fell into the trap of asking why you got the dislike. This is a UKC secret code for "please can everyone dislike my posts on this thread please" 

I know from experience. Watch what happens now... 

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 Jamie Wakeham 05 Jan 2022
In reply to ThunderCat:

Oh gods I'm doomed, aren't I?

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 Brown 05 Jan 2022
In reply to deepsoup:

Indeed. Minimum parking requirements are a quick way to force low density development upon society. There is really strong evidence regarding the vicious circle created by parking minimums, urban sprawl, and obligatory car use.

Minimum car parking spaces result in business being strangled as development land becomes more expensive, housing becomes more unaffordable as you can fit fewer unit on any given site and commuting and travel time goes up.

Further to this minimum car parking requirements are a cross subsidiary from those who have no cars to those who do. It seems regressive to force the kids who cycle to the wall to pay more so that the adults who drive get free parking.

London has moved in the opposite direction to minimum car parking with maximum car parking limits on new developments (residential & commercial).

Great anecdote about the first iteration of SimCity having representative USA car park space allowance. This was removed as the game became nothing more than a car park manager simulation.

1
 TheGeneralist 05 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

So can someone tell me. Is the road that the depot is on actually a private road?

 robert-hutton 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

> My advice would be to just turn off the like/dislike buttons. The forum is a much jollier place without them!

I have it turned off, but I wish I had the like button👍

 Rick51 05 Jan 2022
In reply to TheGeneralist:

> So can someone tell me. Is the road that the depot is on actually a private road?

yes.

OP stemill 05 Jan 2022
In reply to TheGeneralist:

I've no idea tbh! It's in an industrial estate, until recently the road had a pretty badly worn surface and the double yellows were fairly indistinct. I imagine most people turning up in the dark could've easily missed them. There never appeared to have been an issue with causing an obstruction as the road seemed (in the evening at least) to not be in use by other traffic. I imagine most people assumed by the large numbers of other cars parked there week in week out that any parking restrictions that were previously in place were no longer being enforced. And they'd have been right for the last six years!

I posted mainly to alert others to the risk of getting a ticket. I had hoped the Depot might have made more of an effort to alert their customers of the new rules but maybe i just missed the "big fuss".

As it turns out it looks like I wasn't actually even parked on a double yellow, although I was directly under one of the new signs! I might contest the charge, if I do so successfully I'll put some details on here so people in the same boat can do the same. @Jamie Wakeham if you've got some experience of this I'd appreciate your advice, thanks.

I also posted to get some suggestions of other places to park. I will try some of these spots next week, thanks for those helpful replies.

I also learned I can turn off the like/dislike buttons, thanks for that tip too!!

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 TheGeneralist 05 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

If you want ( huge amounts of ), advice on disputing parking charges then singletrackworld.com is the place

Good to hear that it's are private road. It was previously really bugging me that the council had been stupid enough to put double yellows down both sides of a wide, virtually unused thoroughfare.

The fact that its a private owner makes complete sense. They didn't give a shit about small numbers of people parking there previously. Now they've cottoned on to the number of climbers parking they have realised they have a very lucrative income stream and so have repainted the lines  and sent the wardens in.

Somewhat tedious, but at least not stupid. I hate stupid

The Depot on the otherhand could perhaps  have reasonably been expected to foresee this exact situation and applied some leverage to Peel before signing on the dotted line.

Too late now though.

 ThunderCat 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> Oh gods I'm doomed, aren't I?

I think you've got off lightly.

In reply to Jenny C:

We pay one of the companies to use their car park after 5pm and on weekends (plus Friday after lunch as they shut). Other companies let us use their off road parking for free when they are shut. Luckily we also have a signicant number of customers (and staff) who live locally so we get a lot of walk-in trade.

We are also very close to a number of very regular bus routes.

And despite all of the above we often don't have enough parking.

Post edited at 17:04
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 Jamie Wakeham 05 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

Happy to help.  The critical thing to remember throughout this is that they do not know the identity of the driver, so do not tell them.  All they can get from the DVLA is the identity of the keeper.  They may not presume that these are the same person.  If they stick to the rules in POFA 2012, then and only then can they transfer liability from the unknown driver to the keeper. 

Spoiler : they will not have stuck to the rules in POFA 2012, because they never do.

Was a notice stuck to the windscreen (a Notice to Driver) or did this come through the post (a Notice to Keeper)?  Tactics differ.

1
OP stemill 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Nice one ta. It was a sticker on the windscreen. I've been online to check the payment/appeals process and there's a few photos of the car parked up. The photos do not show me parked on a double yellow line - it's possible that the car is obscuring them although I don't think that's the case. However I do appear to be right in front of one of their signs, Doh!

1
 RX-78 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Iamgregp:

Why not use the free car park in the complex the Reach is part of? Turn immediately right after you go past the barrier??

 Jamie Wakeham 05 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

OK - that's nice because there's an additional way that UKPC screw up here.  You're going to appeal on the basis of poor signage, 26 days after the incident, not naming the driver, only as keeper.  They will then forget that they have to apply to DVLA to get the keeper details (because it costs them a  princely £2.50) to fulfil their obligations under POFA.  They have to do this, between days 27 and 56.

Once you get to day 56 you ask the DVLA if anyone has accessed your details.  Once you have DVLA's confirmation that they did not, then you just tell UKPC that they've not issued a POFA compliant notice, and they can sling their hook.  If they disagree then the second stage appeal (PoPLA) always agrees with this argument. 

You can see this working its way through in this thread: http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t125530.html

So, don't contact them straight away.  Go get photos of the signage.  Don't rely on me, but instead register with the forum at PePiPoo and they will talk you through the whole thing.  

1
 Iamgregp 05 Jan 2022
In reply to RX-78:

Because I go at the weekend and you can park wherever you want?!

 nobalga 06 Jan 2022
In reply to stemill:

I think part of the problem is that there is a fedex depot just up past the depot, and while the new building opposite was being built the trucks had to come in past the depot.  With people parking on both sides of the road on the bends (highway code anyone :P), they couldn't get through.  I imagine this is what prompted all the new signs and lines, and the visits from enforcement officers who have been coming for a few months before the new lines appeared.

Seen plenty of pissed off drivers come into to get cars moved and seen some scrapes to.

As for the signs, there are loads, pretty much on all the lampposts and on the fences.  The ones as you enter clearly say no on road parking ( I can read em while driving past).  I imagine you can't say wasn't on double yellows if your still on the road outside a premises as that would be blocking an entrance.  need to be of the road on the sites property.  Was surprised they didn't stick white lines along these parts to be safe.

At the risk of doing myself out of a spot, there is a carpark on the end of the row, as you turn left to get to the back entrance of the depot.  

 TheGeneralist 06 Jan 2022
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> We pay one of the companies to use their car park after 5pm and on weekends (plus Friday after lunch as they shut). Other companies let us use their off road parking for free when they are shut.

Sorry for being dim  but who is "we"?

< edited after clicking a few links. Not the Depot>

Post edited at 21:02
 Jenny C 06 Jan 2022
In reply to TheGeneralist:

> Sorry for being dim  but who is "we"?

> < edited after clicking a few links. Not the Depot>

Graeme is talking about The Climbing Works

Their agreement with neighbouring businesses certainly helps when the wall is at its busiest.


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