UKC

After the long lay off my aging shoulders are complaining - I suspect I tried to do too much too quickly once allowed out again. I've got varied aches and pains, intermittently tight muscles, including in back and neck, and a hint of an impingement. I am looking for a set of exercises and stretches which will help me maintain good shoulder health and hopefully allow me to keep climbing happily for many years. A search on here and elsewhere has brought up various things, but I'm not sure whether they are too specific (impingement, rotator cuff etc.). I wonder if anyone could recommend a proven general shoulder maintenance programme that I can do regularly. I may well also visit a physio, but in the past I have found them best for fixing more specific problems.

I'd start with a Physio. I've had similar issues with both shoulders and elbows, and found the (well-meaning) advice offered on UKC wasn't effective for my particular injuries.

A good physiotherapist was able to precisely identify the problem, and give very targeted exercises to resolve them and (so far) prevent any recurrence. 

I would also suggest a climber experienced physio.

    I had a 'frozen' shoulder plus general shoulder and elbow wear and tear and have found various TheraBand exercises brilliantly helpful. Almost back to full mobility after several months of pain and restricted movement.

A good resource:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ww... 

Brilliant, thanks for sharing.

I take it you have rounded shoulders, most older climber do. Make sure you sit up straight when sat in chair. Its what my physio got me to do when faced with similar issue.That and a regular massage for a few weeks sorted me out.

I have found that the theraband excercises recommended for rotator cuff injury in climbers are useful for maintaining general balance in the shoulders.

Thanks. That looks excellent. Shall have a good look later. Got a physio appointment for tomorrow - not yet decided whether to prioritise shoulders or knees😳

Been wondering about trying a proper sports massage. Everything just seems tight down my right side from my neck to my hip.

I found these helpful

https://trainingforclimbing.com/rotator-cuff-training-for-climbers/

I get a climbing specialist sports massage every month regardless of how good or bad my neck and shoulders feel, seems to help keep me injury free.

I tried 3 different physios before finding somebody who could really dig into my shoulder and do a proper massage. At the same time she looked at my posture and forced me to sit up straight alot more..One of the physios was hopeless, she did not go deep enough, and I moved on after 1 session. The 2nd was good, but she moved out of the area on and could not find her again. the 3rd was excellent.She got me to go for about 6 week weekly sessions and noticed a dramtic improvement. She reckons that after 4-6 weeks if the injury is still there then you need an MRI scan.

Its hard work for a physio to do really well becuase their thumbs need to find the  point of pain and push. But you can really tell the good ones.

I've had a major shoulder impingement which led also to a deltoid tear. Had a few very good sports therapist sessions.

But the very best exercise which I found the most helpful was one I found on Rock and Ice website under the 'climbing doctor' for shoulder impingement search which involved lifting the injured side arm with a broom shank and letting it slowly fall under it's own weight in different planes.

Dave McCleod has some very interesting things on his blog/book.

Take advice first.

Now fully recoverd BTW

Hi, I can recommend Process Physiotherapy, Andy is brilliant. I’ve had shoulder elbow problems for years and had a really good physio sessions on and off but Andy gives you a program that is interesting and easy to follow.

Ive had 3 zoom sessions throughout the lockdown and I’ve never felt better.

Hi Robert,

The two links shared look like a good place to start. If you feel it's general musculoskeletal shoulder pain and nothing specific that you want investigating, I'd say introducing some general conditioning work is ideal. Think of isolated rotator cuff ex's (eg external rotation with a band), general shoulder strengthening (eg shoulder press), weight bearing shoulder ex's (eg planks and press ups) and back based ex's (eg rows, scapular retractions). 

Doing this you can then pick and choose what you feel is necessary and not aggravating. And if/when you see a physio, they'll be impressed you've made a start and might help you fine tune the conditioning. 

One key thing with conditioning work is to make sure its challenging enough to have an impact. If the exercises feel easy, increase the intensity (resistance, reps etc). Hope this helps. 

Hi Rob I have had a bad back for 18 months. Sounds like you have the start of problems brought on by age - reduced mobility, rounding of the shoulders, possibly weak glutes and abs leading to pelvic tilt. Do you sit down alot? Look down at your phone, use a computer? Ab and core workouts can help. Pilates (Jessica Valant beginner on utube) works  brilliantly with mobility too.

I’d thoroughly recommend red theraband (£15) pull aparts (palms forward) upto sternum then from sternum to behind your back, then repeat waist to sternum. This activates and strengthens the muscles around the scapula to pull the shoulders back in line. Try to get pumped in your lats just behind your armpits. I normally follow this up with upright rows which target the same muscles. 

These exercises make your whole torso sits straighter on your hips so your whole posture improves, not just your shoulders. 

Shoulder press doesn’t work for me. 

I would also recommend trigger point therapy (lie on a hockey ball) with ball around scapula area. Put the ball where it hurts and leave it there till the pain subsides, find another spot etc. This gets rid of knots. Works well when stressed or just after a hard climbing day (or sitting, or driving)!

Stretch the back by sitting at a table with your elbows and palms together - like praying, then push the chair back to increase the stretch. This helps alignment and stiffness too. 

Best of luck and please get that side pain/stiffness looked at because keeping your back healthy is Uber important!

Thanks.

Certainly more since lockdown! I actually feel that the break from climbing has also been bad in that it stretches everything out and gives the core some exercise.

I'm struggling to visualise that......

This sounds like what a physio gave me for an impingement 18 months ago (though the one I think I have now seems in a different place). 

I do a bit of that when I feel a tightness and an osteopath has in the past worked miracles when my shoulder locked up and with a really stiff neck.

So would this actually be pulling the shoulders forward?

3 of us are doing weekly zoom Pilates sessions tailored specifically for climbing injury prevention. Definitely worth considering.

Thanks for the various replies. I saw a highly recommended physio today and he diagnosed a bit of tendonitis in both shoulders and knees (par for the course in an "aging athlete"!), agreed it was probably a matter of going at it too hard after the lockdown layoff and gave me some specific stretches to do along with some simple rotator cuff theraband toning exercises. Seeing him again in a week. So hopefully will get sorted over a month or two.

Take care with a physio. My partner worked with a physio on her damaged shoulder, but when I finally persuaded her to see a consultant he was horrified and said stop all that immediately, you should have been sent here straight away! Her op is scheduled for as soon as this pandemic will allow. The injury has been made worse by the physio, to quote the specialist surgeon.

Your choice, see a shoulder specialist or risk it! (They cost nothing on the NHS, physios charge the earth for what is now obviously dubious advice!

Hi Rob, aBand Pull Aparts: Start with an underhand grip with the band under minimum tension at your waist. Pull apart and up to the sternum. The band will be stretched across your chest at this point at max tension. Return to the starting position. 
That’s 1 rep. Do 10. 
At the end of the exercise maintain the max tension position but take the band over your head whilst maintaining as much tension as possible. Obviously the band will have to release a little to get over your head. This stretches the shoulders and upper back as well. Return the band to the front position but always keep it above the sternum to keep the pump. 
Thats 1 Rep. Do 10.

Now repeat the first exercise  Remember not to let the band go above your Sternum. You should get a good pump  in the lats.

Throughout, keep the back and shoulders straight, never rounded. 
 

Couldn’t find a video link.

Completely agree that there is a degree of risk; in an ideal world, I’d see my GP, get referred to a specialist, and then get physio all on the NHS. But having been down that route pre-lockdown, I know it can take 3-6 months to get to the physio. 

Yes,  I think the NHS route for non acute general aches and pains is a non starter.

This is a no brainer Robert! A sports massage will be the best thing that you've spent your money on in a long time. Like someone else said, you should try to get one once a month whether you think that you need it or not. 

James 

Thanks James. I'd pretty much decided to give one a go!

I've had shoulder issues over the past few years and especially have problems with imbalance, particularly with shortening of the pecs and overdevelopment of the traps on my left side  which makes my left shoulder seem more rounded than my right. Massage and lots of stretching help, and I have found it beneficial to get advice now and then from a sports physio and sometimes a chiropractor, with it in mind that others on this thread have issued caveats re physios and chiropractic is possibly quackery, though I have had very good results from it.

I also found these two articles helpful.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/series/injury_management_and_pre...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/injuries/climbing_shoulder_injuries_-_e...
 

Thanks. That makes sense. I think I'll stick to the things the physio gave me for the time being, but good to have other things to try.

I wonder why the dislikes. Have people had bad experiences with sports massage?