/ Sprinting and Diabetes

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Shani 28 Jan 2009
I have advocated integrating sprinting in to your training for a while on UKC. It would seem that there are wider long term benefits to doing this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7852987.stm
DougG 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

Does it have to be either/or? (Which seems to be the way it's presented in that report.)

I mean, what about distance running and sprinting, on "rest" days?
johnSD28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:

Here's the abstract

Extremely short duration high intensity training substantially improves insulin action in young sedentary males

John A Babraj email, Niels BJ Vollaard email, Cameron Keast email, Fergus M Guppy email, Greg Cottrell email and James A Timmons email

BMC Endocrine Disorders 2009, 9:3doi:10.1186/1472-6823-9-3
Published: 28 January 2009
Abstract (provisional)
Background

Classic, long duration aerobic exercise reduces cardiovascular and metabolic disease risk but this involves a substantial time commitment. Extremely low volume high-intensity interval training (HIT) has recently been shown to cause similar improvements to aerobic performance, but it has not been established whether HIT has the capacity to improve glycemic control.
Methods

Sixteen young men (age: 21+/-2 y; BMI: 23.7+/-3.1 kg * m-2; VO2peak: 48+/-9 ml * kg-1 * min-1) performed 2 weeks of supervised HIT comprising of a total of 15 min of exercise (6 sessions; 4-6 x 30-s cycle sprints per session). Aerobic performance (250-kJ self-paced cycling time trial), and glucose, insulin and NEFA responses to a 75-g oral glucose load (oral glucose tolerance test; OGTT) were determined before and after training.
Results

Following 2 weeks of HIT, the area under the plasma glucose, insulin and NEFA concentration-time curves were all reduced (12%, 37%, 26% respectively, all P<0.001). Fasting plasma insulin and glucose concentrations remained unchanged, but there was a trend towards reduced fasting plasma NEFA concentrations post-training (pre: 350 +/- 36 v post: 290 +/- 39 mumol * l-1, P=0.058). Insulin sensitivity as measured by the Cederholm index was improved by 22.5% (P<0.01). Aerobic cycling performance was improved by ~6% (P<0.01).
Conclusions

The efficacy of a high intensity exercise protocol, involving only ~250 kcal work each week, to substantially improve insulin action in young sedentary subjects is remarkable. We feel this novel time-efficient training paradigm can be used as a strategy to reduce metabolic risk factors in young and middle aged sedentary populations who otherwise would not adhere to a classic high volume, time consuming exercise regimes.
Wibble Wibble 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Does it have to be either/or? (Which seems to be the way it's presented in that report.)
>
> I mean, what about distance running and sprinting, on "rest" days?

Indeed. I do sprint sessions (typically 8x20s with 10s rests) in the week and LSD stuff, that would have Shani foaming at the mouth with indignation, at the weekend ;-).

Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Wibble Wibble:

lol

Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:

Depletion of glycogen seems to be key here - so it has got to be 'all out' sprinting. I typically do 3-5 sprints of between 6-15 seconds each, twice a week.
Banned User 77 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani: "He added: "If you go for a jog or a run you oxidise glycogen but you are not depleting the glycogen in your muscles. "

Not sure about that. Plenty of journal articles have reported depletion after long periods of excersise.
Banned User 77 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani: I think he may have been mis quoted or something there. Long term excersise, cycling, running does lead to glycogen depletion.
DougG 28 Jan 2009
In reply to IainRUK:

I might be getting it very wrong, but I though "hitting the wall" was when your muscles ran out of glycogen?
johnSD28 Jan 2009
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Shani) "He added: "If you go for a jog or a run you oxidise glycogen but you are not depleting the glycogen in your muscles. "
>
> Not sure about that. Plenty of journal articles have reported depletion after long periods of excersise.

Would that not coincide with hitting the wall, or reaching the "fat burning" phase?

But in answer to Doug, no it's not an either/or, just a possible alternative to achieve certain effects by the sound of it.
Banned User 77 28 Jan 2009
Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Shani) I think he may have been mis quoted or something there. Long term excersise, cycling, running does lead to glycogen depletion.

Yeah I think you are right. I guess the point is that you simply need to cause depletion (the more the better) - and HIT is the quickest way to do this.

I would guess that many runners out there rarely go to maximal depletion.
davidwright 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
> I might be getting it very wrong, but I though "hitting the wall" was when your muscles ran out of glycogen?

No its when your blood sugar level crashes after your total body glycogen drops bellow acceptable limits. You have depleated liver glycogen as well.
Banned User 77 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG: That's what I've always taken it as, when your body converts to the less efficient fat as a source of energy.
Banned User 77 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Yeah I think you are right. I guess the point is that you simply need to cause depletion (the more the better) - and HIT is the quickest way to do this.
>

That's what I take it as, so people can get the benefit in a short space of time.
DougG 28 Jan 2009
In reply to davidwright:

OK, is liver glycogen as easy to 'access' as muscle glycogen?
DougG 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

General question here:

Does a high-carb diet put you at risk of eventually developing diabetes? I say this because my diet is fairly high in carbs; about 65-70% of calories from carbs last time I looked into it, and it hasn't changed much since.
johnSD28 Jan 2009
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> That's what I take it as, so people can get the benefit in a short space of time.

Would be interesting to see it trialled as a community level intervention to see whether the lower time requirement really did make it more successful than traditional physical activity recommendations.
Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG: All carbs are turned into glucose directly by the gut or by the liver. If blood sugars are high enough it is then converted to glycogen and shoved in to the liver and muscles. If the liver and muscles are full then the glucose is stored as fat.

This is the main argument against the lipid hypothesis; that obesity is a problem of excess sugar (carbohydrate) rather than excess calories/fat.
Ian McNeill 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani: its a load of old tosh !

researchers wasting money on nothing ....
Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> General question here:
>
> Does a high-carb diet put you at risk of eventually developing diabetes? I say this because my diet is fairly high in carbs; about 65-70% of calories from carbs last time I looked into it, and it hasn't changed much since.


At the risk of sticking my head above the UKC parapet once again, there is a belief that this is the case.

I am no doctor and so am not qualified to give medical advice.

I will add that I follow a paleo diet (no bread, rice, pasta or potatoes) and eat a lot of saturated animal fat and animal protein. I eat lots of vegetables, some salad and a bit of fruit.

After over two years eating this way (and NO distance running), I am as lean as I have ever been (<10% bodyfat) and according to my doctor showing no signs of heart disease and all the other nasties that are meant to follow such a diet.
DougG 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

Aye, I remembered that about your diet. I'm at the opposite extreme - eat very little in the way of saturated animal fat, but a lot of carbs. Plenty of fruit & veg.

No problem with weight here either!
davidwright 28 Jan 2009
In reply to johnSD:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Would that not coincide with hitting the wall, or reaching the "fat burning" phase?
>
Well fat burning ought to be going on all the time in the LSD regime. You can get glygogen depleation via anaerobic regimes as well but it tends to be less long lasting as some of the lactate will get recovered by Glucogenisis.

Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to davidwright:

Glycogenesis or gluconeogenesis?
Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Aye, I remembered that about your diet. I'm at the opposite extreme - eat very little in the way of saturated animal fat, but a lot of carbs. Plenty of fruit & veg.
>
> No problem with weight here either!


I have a few questions:

1) Do you ever get hungry? One thing I find is that I can eat once a day and am fine (no hunger shakes) - even prior to training. I can climb on an empty stomach without a problem.

2) Has your diet/exercise made you ripped? I am pretty ripped (it sounds vain, I know) - more than I have ever been in my life.
davidwright 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> General question here:
>
> Does a high-carb diet put you at risk of eventually developing diabetes? I say this because my diet is fairly high in carbs; about 65-70% of calories from carbs last time I looked into it, and it hasn't changed much since.

Thats about perfect for an endurance athlete. Type II diabeates comes from having too much insulin in the blood stream for too long not the volumes of carbs you process. Having insulin continually in the blood stream (not a problem if your exercising and thus in weight balance) leads to over stimulation and eventually receptor depleation. That happens over a period of years (insulin is a growth hormone adapted to a metabolic use not a metabolic hormone). The other effect is large numbers of fat cells sequestering too much.

High carb won't degrade performance, low carb diets can.
davidwright 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to davidwright)
>
> Glycogenesis or gluconeogenesis?

If you knew what the terms meant you wouldn't have to ask the question.
Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to davidwright:
> (In reply to DougG)
> [...]
>
> Thats about perfect for an endurance athlete. Type II diabeates comes from having too much insulin in the blood stream for too long not the volumes of carbs you process. Having insulin continually in the blood stream (not a problem if your exercising and thus in weight balance) leads to over stimulation and eventually receptor depleation. That happens over a period of years (insulin is a growth hormone adapted to a metabolic use not a metabolic hormone). The other effect is large numbers of fat cells sequestering too much.
>
> High carb won't degrade performance, low carb diets can.

1) That last line is so vague as to be absolute bollocks.

2) Guys like Micheal Phelps who chow down on massive volumes of carbs would do well to learn what has happened to Sir Steve Redgrave.
Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to davidwright:

I didn't want to put words in to your mouth. For the benefit of others you should be willing to correct your malapropisms.

Do you think 'grammar' is someone you visit at the weekend?
DougG 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

> 1) Do you ever get hungry? One thing I find is that I can eat once a day and am fine (no hunger shakes) - even prior to training. I can climb on an empty stomach without a problem.

All the time. Right now I am fkn starving. I can run on an empty stomach, however - not a problem.

> 2) Has your diet/exercise made you ripped? I am pretty ripped (it sounds vain, I know) - more than I have ever been in my life.

No. Made me a lanky big streak of piss.

Am genuinely interested in the paleo thing, by the way. I think I'd struggle with it though as I'm not even that keen on eating meat - not on principle, I just don't like it that much.

Shani 28 Jan 2009
In reply to DougG:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> [...]
>
> All the time. Right now I am fkn starving. I can run on an empty stomach, however - not a problem.
>
> [...]
>
> No. Made me a lanky big streak of piss.
>
> Am genuinely interested in the paleo thing, by the way. I think I'd struggle with it though as I'm not even that keen on eating meat - not on principle, I just don't like it that much.

DougG - I was the same as you before going paleo - always starving between meals, got the shakes, pretty lanky. Not now though! I was also a vegetarian for 10 f*cking years prior to making the switch!
johnSD28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

Out of interest, do you find you have enough energy for long days on the hills, or long runs or cycles, on the paleo diet?
davidwright 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to davidwright)
> [...]
>
> 1) That last line is so vague as to be absolute bollocks.
>

Its not vague at all. If you understood what you were talking about you would know exactly what I was driving at. Low carb diets can and will degrade performance dramatically in any event lasting more than about 5 minutes.

> 2) Guys like Micheal Phelps who chow down on massive volumes of carbs would do well to learn what has happened to Sir Steve Redgrave.

If Phelps went on to a low carb diet his performances would drop by about 30% in most of his events and he wouldn't be able to sustain the performance loads required to string together so many events. All of that is carb fueled and those carbs cannot be replaced by fat or protein. A fat dificancy and most amino acid dificancies can be compensated for by carbs.

Stop eating and you will show signs of carb deficancy within 6-12 hours, for fat or amino acids its a period of weeks. You will have died of carbohydrate difficancy before you start showing signs of vitamin dificency.
davidwright 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to davidwright)
>
> I didn't want to put words in to your mouth. For the benefit of others you should be willing to correct your malapropisms.
>
> Do you think 'grammar' is someone you visit at the weekend?

For somebody who is very fond of throwing around terms you don't understand and quoting papers you clearly haven't read this is way too much.
Ian McNeill 28 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to davidwright)
> [...]
>
> 2) Guys like Micheal Phelps who chow down on massive volumes of carbs would do well to learn what has happened to Sir Steve Redgrave.

please expand upon this comment ..... with good links if possible ?
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Ian McNeill:

Sir SR was on a 6,000 calorie a day and which included a high sugar content to sustain his training.

Your body only needs about a teaspoon of glucose in the blood stream at any one time. The body tries to maintain blood sugar in quite a strict range. If there is enough sugar in the blood the body replenishes the muscles and liver. After that, insulin is used by the body to store the excess as fat.

Over time the insulin receptors become 'desensitised' so insulin. At his point it is no less important for your body to control sugar, but your body (the Islets of Langerhans) has to produce more insulin to maintain control.

Eventually the IOL become effectively 'burnt out' as they cannot produce enough insulin to control blood sugars.

Type 2 diabetes is a problem of insulin sensitivity rather than not producing enough insulin.

If the stories of MP eating 12000 calories a day is any way true (which I doubt), then he will be eating a lot of carbohydrate (pasta etc) as you'd find it hard to eat 12,000 calories from protein and fat.

His body HAS to produce insulin to manage this - and sure he will burn most of the energy off, but his body will be awash with insulin. This makes him a prime candidate for T2 diabetes.
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to davidwright:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> For somebody who is very fond of throwing around terms you don't understand and quoting papers you clearly haven't read this is way too much.

Do you still infer you have read books (by award winning authors in the subject of physics), from what you can glean from interviews (even if the interview does not quote from the book)?
Matt Vigg 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

> If the stories of MP eating 12000 calories a day is any way true (which I doubt), then he will be eating a lot of carbohydrate (pasta etc) as you'd find it hard to eat 12,000 calories from protein and fat.

Surely it's much easier to eat 12k Calories from fat than it is carbs, given that there's more than twice the Calories in fat? I read that some Arctic explorer needed around 7k Calories daily presumably because of working hard in the extreme cold so ended up taking loads of goose fat with him because Calorie content per space & weight was such a good ratio.

I changed my diet a bit recently and now try and eat around 60% of calories from carbs (ave about 3k per day) I found this a bit difficult at first, god knows how you eat 12k calories of anything.
johnSD29 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

Redgrave was hardly exceptional in his calorie intake - many, many athletes from a huge variety of sprts, doing similar amounts of training, will eat the same or more. Steve's grandfather has diabetes, suggesting he was going to be succeptible anyway.

Do athletes have a higher than average occurence of type 2 diabetes?

The remarkable thing about Phelps' diet is how high in fat, saturated fat, and junk food it is, not how high in carbohydrate. He eats whole blocks of cheese and several hamburgers at a time - it's the only way he can get enough calories, he'd never he able to fit enough carbs in...
Serpico29 Jan 2009
In reply to johnSD:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> Redgrave was hardly exceptional in his calorie intake - many, many athletes from a huge variety of sprts, doing similar amounts of training, will eat the same or more. Steve's grandfather has diabetes, suggesting he was going to be succeptible anyway.
>
Funnily enough I'm typing this a few feet away from Matthew Pinsent giving a presentation about his training for the Olympics. Two weeks ago I worked on a show with a presentation by Steve Williams. Both trained and ate the same as Redgrave (necking tins of Slimfast as soon as they got out of the boat), and both are fine.
Is Shani really so arrogant that he thinks he knows better than the team of sport scientists and nutritionalists that support The British Olympic Team, or Phelp's team?




vollaard 29 Jan 2009
Good to see some interest in this paper! I was leading this study at Heriot-Watt University (Professor Timmons funded it).

Some comments on points made above:

-we believe the key mechanism for the effects of our protocol to be the rapid decrease in muscle glycogen (~33% decrease in one session / 4 x 30 sec sprints). With running this would take far longer (faster with increasing intensities), whereas jogging hardly reduces muscle glycogen at all. Liver glycogen is not important in this (liver glycogen is depleted overnight and repleted during the day).

-Inactivity is the main cause of Type II diabetes, eating large amounts of carbohydrates is not a problem whatsoever. If you are sufficiently active your diet does not really make much difference, whether it is high fat, high protein or high carbohydrate. Research suggests a high carbohydrate diet to be the healthiest option. This is despite the fact that a wide range of other diets have been shown to reduce body mass. You should bear in mind that loosing weight depends on the balance between calorie-intake and calorie expenditure, and NOT on whether these calories come from fat or carbohydrates. However, body weight is not the only important health parameter: a high fat diet increases health risks through other mechanisms. Moreover, endurance performance benefits from a high carbohydrate diet.

-On the applicability of our protocol: this stuff works amazingly well, but is NOT an easy option, 4 x 30 second Wingate tests are very tiring. However, it not only reduces risk of insulin resistance / diabetes, it also improves aerobic performance / endurance. This won’t improve your climbing performance, but is very useful for long days in the mountains / walk-ins / etc. You can get similar adaptations with endurance training, but this takes far more time.
Banned User 77 29 Jan 2009
In reply to vollaard: "we believe the key mechanism for the effects of our protocol to be the rapid decrease in muscle glycogen (~33% decrease in one session / 4 x 30 sec sprints). With running this would take far longer (faster with increasing intensities), whereas jogging hardly reduces muscle glycogen at all. Liver glycogen is not important in this (liver glycogen is depleted overnight and repleted during the day)."

But the article says:

He added: "If you go for a jog or a run you oxidise glycogen but you are not depleting the glycogen in your muscles.

"The only way to get to this glycogen is through very intense contractions of the muscles.

So this statement is wrong then. I think it's misleading. Getting into the whole semantics of jog/run is dangerous terrain which I'd shy away from, especially without defining the terms more accurately. But we'ev had dealings with the press and it's very hard to keep it accurate.

Many just refer to a jog as a long steady run. Depending on duration that could deplete carb reserves, especially if not taking on food.
johnSD29 Jan 2009
In reply to vollaard:

Hello, it's an honour to hear from you here!

Can you tell us a bit more about the sample group. The Abstract talks about the potential for sedentary people, but the body of the paper describes them as sedentary or recreationally active. The VO2peak range of 48+/-9 also suggest you had some fairly fit people in there. Do you think the results would be the same with an obese/sedentary/unfit/older sample (not to mention the issues you mention about this still being very hard work and therefore not necessarily any easier to get people to do than longer sessions of moderate intensity)
johnSD29 Jan 2009
In reply to vollaard:

Oh, and congrats to you and/or the Prof and/or the HW press office for getting this such high profile news coverage - not every university is as effective.
stupot29 Jan 2009
In reply to vollaard: I though muscles could store around 14g glycogen in every kg of muscle. Supposing you have 10kg leg muscle (these are the ones that are being exercised, right?) thats 140g glycogen. I fail to understand how you can burn 33% of that in just 120sec of exercise.
vollaard 29 Jan 2009
The article can be accessed here: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6823/9/3/abstract

There was indeed a range of fitness levels, and the increase in insulin sensitivity did not correlate with baseline fitness levels. In studies we are currently performing we see the same picture: baseline fitness levels, fat percentage, and age do not seem to affect the magnitude of the response. This type of exercise is unusual even for recreationally active people: only few people regularly decrease their muscle glycogen stores. This relates to the running vs. jogging comment: I don’t want to start discussing at what intensity you have to run and for how long to decrease muscle glycogen levels, the fact is that few people in the general public would run fast and long enough to get decreases similar to the ones we see in a few minutes. And yes, it is correct to point out that this doesn’t mean that it will be easier to get people to do this, as the exercise is tiring and requires motivation, something that is unfortunately lacking in the vast majority of sedentary individuals. However, for those who find time is an issue, sprint interval training would provide an ideal means of getting fitter and healthier without performing hours of endurance exercise each week.

On glycogen stores: you will have approximately 400 grams of glycogen stored in your muscles. Four Wingate sprints will break down ~100-150 grams of this. Only a fraction of this is actually used, the rest is broken down to glucose and lactate and either used to resynthesise glycogen during recovery or transported out of the muscle cell.
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to vollaard:

Great to have you on here. Can I ask a couple of questions?

1) "Inactivity is the main cause of Type II diabetes"

This statement may be true but how do you account for Sir Steve Redgrave's diabetes? Inactivity is obviously not the only cause and you cannot rule out another root cause. So how can you decide whether T2 is the mainly caused by 'inactivity' or not?

2) "Research suggests a high carbohydrate diet to be the healthiest option."

Certainly for those with T2 diabetes there is evidence that a low carbohydrate diet is better. So for a 'regular' person, would you recommend against a low (refined) carb diet?

3) "a high fat diet increases health risks through other mechanisms".

Can you expand on this statement?
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Serpico:
> (In reply to johnSD)
> [...]
> Funnily enough I'm typing this a few feet away from Matthew Pinsent giving a presentation about his training for the Olympics. Two weeks ago I worked on a show with a presentation by Steve Williams. Both trained and ate the same as Redgrave (necking tins of Slimfast as soon as they got out of the boat), and both are fine.
> Is Shani really so arrogant that he thinks he knows better than the team of sport scientists and nutritionalists that support The British Olympic Team, or Phelp's team?

No I am not. But just as Redgrave's scientists and nutritionalists didn't seem to anticipate the onset of T2, I guess that Phelp's don't either.

I have read that athletes are insulin sensitive, so maybe it is out of season gorging on carbs that brings risk?
johnSD29 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

sorry to prod you with a reminder, but I am genuinely interested (although you can probably tell that I'm not totally convinced... ) in your paleo diet.

Do you find you have (or do you think you would have) enough energy for long days on the hills, or long runs or days cycling on your diet? Do you ever find yourself in an energy slump, and if so what do you eat to get yourself out of it quickly?
vollaard 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:

1) "Inactivity is the main cause of Type II diabetes"

Inactivity is not the exclusive cause, but definitely the main cause. In the vast majority of people Type II diabetes is easily preventable (and generally treatable) with exercise.

2) "Research suggests a high carbohydrate diet to be the healthiest option." Certainly for those with T2 diabetes there is evidence that a low carbohydrate diet is better. So for a 'regular' person, would you recommend against a low (refined) carb diet?

Yes, a healthy diet high in carbohydrates is recommended.

3) "a high fat diet increases health risks through other mechanisms".
Can you expand on this statement?

For example: a high fat diet increases the risk of atherosclerosis even in those who don’t put on weight.

For more answers, please register for our BSc in Sport and Exercise Science at Heriot-Watt University.
vollaard 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Ian McNeill:
> (In reply to Shani) its a load of old tosh !
>
> researchers wasting money on nothing ....

My final comment:

The NHS currently spends ~1 million pounds per hour (!) on treating Type II diabetes (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/health/Scots-rise-in-diabetes-levels.4607602.jp). This amount will rise exponentially as the incidence of Type II diabetes is rapidly increasing due to the fact that the vast majority of the population is not performing sufficient amounts of physical activity. If people will not change their lifestyle to become more active, the NHS as we know it will seize to exist because it will be unaffordable. ANY research investigating ways to prevent this disease by different means will be well worth the money.

Right, back to the lab.
Serpico29 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Serpico)
> [...]
>
> No I am not. But just as Redgrave's scientists and nutritionalists didn't seem to anticipate the onset of T2, I guess that Phelp's don't either.
>
I'm sure they didn't anticipate the stock market crash either - also not caused by an athlete eating lots of carbs.
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to johnSD:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> sorry to prod you with a reminder, but I am genuinely interested (although you can probably tell that I'm not totally convinced... ) in your paleo diet.
>
> Do you find you have (or do you think you would have) enough energy for long days on the hills, or long runs or days cycling on your diet? Do you ever find yourself in an energy slump, and if so what do you eat to get yourself out of it quickly?

Sorry for not replying - this subjects draws a bit of 'heat' so I can get distracted.

In short I don't do long runs. I do walks of up to an hour - often with a 2 y.o strapped to my back - but family life currently restricts! I don't get any weakness or shakes, nor 'energy crashes'.

I know this is anecdotal (the plural of which is NOT data), but as a (complex) carb eater I did used to get shakes. Often whilst cooking the evening meal I would be gorging on toast and fruit at the same time.

After over two years on a paleo diet I just don't get that problem. I see body fat more as a battery that I seem to be able to cycle throught - running it down between meals and building it back up thereafter.

It has got to the stage where I can sometimes get by on one meal a day - effectively a 24 hour fast (although I usually eat twice a day and occassionally snack on nuts).

I only ate once yesterday. I didn't feel hungry so did not eat. Simple as that. I did some exercise in the evening after which I felt reasonably hungry and so ate - big time (half a chicken - including the skin, loads of veg, cheese, egg, a banana and loads of nuts). I always satisy hunger pangs!

Last nights exercise was an hour of kickboxing although the intensity was up and down. Time 'under tension' in total would have been about 20 minutes or so - the other 40mins would have been skill work and pad holding or simply resting. I worked out fasted and didn't feel weak (in fact I felt pretty sharp).
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Serpico:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
> I'm sure they didn't anticipate the stock market crash either - also not caused by an athlete eating lots of carbs.

Probably becuase the Stock Market doesn't ellicit an insulin response.
Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to vollaard:
> (In reply to Shani)
>
> 1) "Inactivity is the main cause of Type II diabetes"
>
> Inactivity is not the exclusive cause, but definitely the main cause. In the vast majority of people Type II diabetes is easily preventable (and generally treatable) with exercise.

And in many cases requries lower levels of medication and is even curable with a diet low in refined carbohydrate.

> 2) "Research suggests a high carbohydrate diet to be the healthiest option." Certainly for those with T2 diabetes there is evidence that a low carbohydrate diet is better. So for a 'regular' person, would you recommend against a low (refined) carb diet?
>
> Yes, a healthy diet high in carbohydrates is recommended.

By whom adn on what evidence. To look at it another way, after more than two years on a diet high in animal fat and protein and very low in refined carbohydrates, why does my doctor keep giving me a clean bill of health and why is my body fat under 10%?

> 3) "a high fat diet increases health risks through other mechanisms".
> Can you expand on this statement?
>
> For example: a high fat diet increases the risk of atherosclerosis even in those who don’t put on weight.

And yet studies on the Masai show that despite a diet extremely high in fat and with high levels of atherosclerosis, there is little evidence of myocardial infarction.

> For more answers, please register for our BSc in Sport and Exercise Science at Heriot-Watt University.

If I win the Lottery I will!!!

Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Serpico:
> (In reply to johnSD)
> [...]
> Funnily enough I'm typing this a few feet away from Matthew Pinsent giving a presentation about his training for the Olympics. Two weeks ago I worked on a show with a presentation by Steve Williams. Both trained and ate the same as Redgrave (necking tins of Slimfast as soon as they got out of the boat), and both are fine.

I think SR trained for more years that than Pinsent - so chronically desensitised his insulin receptors. As for Phelps, he might want to consider this story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1130624/Olympic-swimmer-Ian-The-Thorpedo-Thorpe-shows-e...

Serpico29 Jan 2009
In reply to Shani:
> (In reply to Serpico)
> [...]
>
> I think SR trained for more years that than Pinsent - so chronically desensitised his insulin receptors.

Have you evidence for that statement, or is it just more assumption?




There is no story there, neither you nor I know the current eating and exercise habits of Thorpe, or his current state of health.

Shani 29 Jan 2009
In reply to Serpico:
> (In reply to Shani)
> [...]
>
> Have you evidence for that statement, or is it just more assumption?


Assumption - based on the fact that Redgrave went to more Olympics and IIRC they retired around the same time.


> There is no story there, neither you nor I know the current eating and exercise habits of Thorpe, or his current state of health.


Obese is one word I would use.
pat m 30 Jan 2009
In reply to Serpico:
> (> Is Shani really so arrogant that he thinks he knows better than the team of sport scientists and nutritionalists that support The British Olympic Team, or Phelp's team?

Yes - he also dismisses the views of the dreaded "professionals" – cardiothoracic surgeons and the like, who know nothing compared to his vast knowledge gleaned from a misreading a couple of poor science journals. Do you not realise that his super diet is the cure for all of the world’s maladies.
Serpico30 Jan 2009
In reply to pat m:
> (In reply to Serpico)
> [...]
> Do you not realise that his super diet is the cure for all of the world’s maladies.

I do now, in fact it's my intention to start a Paleo diet.
I just have 3 questions...
1. Where can I buy Paleos?
2. How do I cook them?
3. Do they taste like chicken?

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