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/ Training to combat immediate pump?

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fifthsunset - on 19 Nov 2018

I get pumped very quickly - usually by the second bolt on a route. I'm not talking about the pump that builds slowly from climbing loads for hours, but an immediate fatigue that means I need to rest several times on a route. I'm dogging routes that I used to be able to onsight.

Does anyone know of a kind of training that will specifically improve short-term forearm power? I never done preplanned training before (just climbed routes I liked the look of), and I haven't climbed indoors in about 8 months, but this is holding me back so I think I need to change things up. Thanks. 

ianstevens - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

If you haven’t climbed indoors in about 8 months have you climbed at all? If so, what styles?

Drop your ego, drop your grade and get the mileage in (aka, ARC training).

MischaHY - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

Sounds like your endurance has dropped - probably (I'm guessing based on your logbook) due to climbing lots of lovely easy angled rock. A classic solution is 3x3 boulder problems - you could also download the Crimpd app and have a go at some of the power endurance exercises in there. 

However honestly at your level (again based on your logbook) it looks like you could improve by simply upping the intensity of a normal climbing session and getting plenty of mileage in. A good 'simple' rule to add more volume/intensity to a session is this: 

If you *know* you can top the route without any doubt, then do a double on it. If you top the double, go for a triple - even if you're pretty sure you'll fall off. 

If you're not sure if you'll top a route, but you do - pull back on for another lap. Again, it doesn't matter if you think you'll fall off part way up. 

This is a great way of climbing to actual capacity whilst keeping the intensity about right. The aim of the rule is to increase the volume of climbing you do whilst pumped which will not only have a training effect but also get you used to climbing whilst pumped which also makes a big difference. 

Oh, and no takes. Fall off or top - and then fall off anyway. 

Hope this helps! 

fifthsunset - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

> If you haven’t climbed indoors in about 8 months have you climbed at all? If so, what styles?

> Drop your ego, drop your grade and get the mileage in (aka, ARC training).

Yeah I've been living in a van in Spain, so for the past few months have been climbing 6 days a week. Leading single and multi pitch sport mostly. 

I looked up ARC training and found this article https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.climbing.com/.amp/skills/learn-to-train-local-endurance-for-climbers/

Looks like good advice, thanks for that. No ego here, only ignorance! 

jezb1 - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

Flash pump is normally caused by not warming up properly. What do you do to warm up?

To improve endurance, laps are the obvious answer.

Post edited at 09:27
ClimberEd - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to jezb1:

> Flash pump is normally caused by not warming up properly. What do you do to warm up?

 

This. You need to warm up properly

 

jkarran - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

> I get pumped very quickly - usually by the second bolt on a route. I'm not talking about the pump that builds slowly from climbing loads for hours, but an immediate fatigue that means I need to rest several times on a route. I'm dogging routes that I used to be able to onsight.

You don't say what experience you have or at what level you're climbing but I'll assume if you'd been at this a few years to a high level it's a problem you'd have encountered and dealt with before, apologies if that's not the case.

Warm up thoroughly. I always preferred traversing, just moving around on the wall getting everything moving and stretched out for several minutes, working toward a gentle pump then easing off a bit to control it.

Relax while climbing, if you're ruined by the second bolt either the route is too hard or you're over-gripping, maybe not getting enough weight on your feet for some reason, maybe not moving quick enough or you're holding stress positions unnecessarily.

Consider the possibility it's not actually pump but a chronic injury.

jk

fifthsunset - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to jezb1:

> Flash pump is normally caused by not warming up properly. What do you do to warm up?

> To improve endurance, laps are the obvious answer.

Ah, I never have warmed up. Maybe this is the issue.

Also good to know there's a name for it, flash pump.

 

fifthsunset - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to MischaHY:

> Sounds like your endurance has dropped - probably (I'm guessing based on your logbook) due to climbing lots of lovely easy angled rock. A classic solution is 3x3 boulder problems - you could also download the Crimpd app and have a go at some of the power endurance exercises in there. 

> However honestly at your level (again based on your logbook) it looks like you could improve by simply upping the intensity of a normal climbing session and getting plenty of mileage in. A good 'simple' rule to add more volume/intensity to a session is this: 

> If you *know* you can top the route without any doubt, then do a double on it. If you top the double, go for a triple - even if you're pretty sure you'll fall off. 

> If you're not sure if you'll top a route, but you do - pull back on for another lap. Again, it doesn't matter if you think you'll fall off part way up. 

> This is a great way of climbing to actual capacity whilst keeping the intensity about right. The aim of the rule is to increase the volume of climbing you do whilst pumped which will not only have a training effect but also get you used to climbing whilst pumped which also makes a big difference. 

> Oh, and no takes. Fall off or top - and then fall off anyway. 

> Hope this helps! 

Thanks for the response. I'll give this a try. Just to check:

What is a 3x3 boulder problem?

Double on a route means do it twice?

fifthsunset - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to ClimberEd:

> > 

> This. You need to warm up properly

What do you recommend for warming up?

jezb1 - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

I write a few blogs about things like this, here's an excerpt from one:

"Get your body ready to perform. We need to get the heart rate up (cardio), get your muscles and joints mobilised, and get your body well coordinated so your foot goes where you want it to and your hands hit the holds right first time every time.

Cardio - think star jumps, running, skipping

Mobilisation - such as lunges, gentle shoulder rotations, hip twists (I use a Theraband)

Coordination - turn your brain on with simple exercises like rubbing your tummy and patting your head in different combinations, stand on one leg with your eyes closed and touch the tip of your nose with the tip of your index finger, things like that.

Do some easier climbing (don't underestimate them though), maybe a couple of routes, maybe some bouldering or traversing, depends a bit where you are, just remember it’s very hard to perform at your limit straight away.

This will get your body and brain working, and your muscles recruited"

ClimberEd - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

Depends what for but for indoor route climbing - climb easier stuff for a bit (say 10-20mins). Then do some hard stuff but keep it short, a few hard (ish) moves. then jump on the routes that are 'bulk' of your session.

Think of it in running terms. Obviously it will depend on the race/session but you'd go for a jog for a bit, then run a bit faster once you had loosened up, then do a few faster sprints to 'open everything up' (in reality this means priming the body for hard work, getting it ready to maximise oxygen transportation, remove lactic etc.). Then you'd feel ready to do a good performance.

MischaHY - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

It's a boulder climbed 3 times in a row, usually with 5-20seconds rest in between. 

Yes, I mean doing the route twice or three times when I say double or triple. I prefer on lead each time as it offers a small rest when retying the rope and generally means you'll climb better as you won't wildly lunge for stuff as you might on toprope when tired. 

For warm up I do this: 

5 mins skipping

5 mins dynamic stretching (arm/leg swinging etc) 

5 minutes shoulder/elbow mobilisation on a pull up bar 

15 mins easy movement on lower grade terrain. 

At the end of this 30 mins I'll probably be ready to climb at 70-80% max. I can then finish warming up to actual max which probably takes another 15-30 minutes if done properly - I'll often do a fingerboard set to recruit strength and make sure my fingers are happy. 

Of course, warming up can be done much quicker but risks injury when already fatigued. 

ianstevens - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

> Yeah I've been living in a van in Spain, so for the past few months have been climbing 6 days a week. Leading single and multi pitch sport mostly. 

> Looks like good advice, thanks for that. No ego here, only ignorance! 

To clarify - by "no ego" I meant don't be afraid to drop your grade Seems like you have a good plan though!

stp - on 19 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

You can usually improve endurance in a pretty short space of time. All you need to do is climb lots - at least twice a week, but preferably 4 or 5 times if you can. You want to get fairly pumped on every route but definitely well short of total failure. You need to be recovered sufficiently for the next route which with an efficient partner will typically give you about 10 minutes of rest between goes. Count how many routes you're doing. Doing about 10 routes per session is a good amount.

For warming up to avoid flash pump all you need to do is 3 or 4 easier routes first. These could be juggy top ropes or even some easy traversing. It depends what's available at your wall. Gradually increase the difficulty so you get mildly pumped each time.

racodemisa - on 20 Nov 2018
In reply to fifthsunset:

Take a break if you are on a long road trip consider going bouldering for a few weeks.Get stronger but in a movement orientated way. Might not help in the short term  but will help you increase your endurance levels at a slightly later time imo.

 

In reply to fifthsunset: so like others have said try warming up. When I was onsight 7b at the beginning of the year. I would often start on 5 and 6 before getting on anything hard and listening to my body. Some days I never tried anything hard as warming up I never felt 100%. 

the other issue is if you have been climbing six days a week take some recovery time. There is the idea that without enough time to recover you will start to get weaker. Especially if you have been sport climbing as you will have been introducing lactic acid to you muscle 6 days a week.

so I would and do some really easy climbing for a couple of weeks with maybe two days on one day off. This should give you enough time to recover. Then maybe Boulder for a bit. If you are in Spain try albarracin. Again a max of two days on one day off, maybe even more rest. Then try getting back sports climbing.

if you have been living in the van climbing full time then you might need a total rest. As theoretically you might have something similar to over training syndrome. So you might need total rest for a couple of weeks and time to recharge your batteries. 

Very hard to say exactly without more info, but alllow yourself time to rest and recover.

 


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