/ UKC Fit Club 304

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grubes - on 13 Jan 2013
This week is a good opportunity to reconsider your goals for the new year.
UKC Fit Club is not a substitute for the training diary but to use with ( or without ) it as a motivational tool for all.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles here:

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity, noting goals, successes and failures and to swap ideas.

Anyone interested in starting is very welcome but you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits to help achieve your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

Link to last week's (303) thread:

Daniel Heath - Wow look like a tough week nice effort
Si dH - That looks an amazing day at curbar Art of Japan looks amazing
Joughton - Good set of goals. All the best with them
Mattrm - Nice set of goals and nice to get out climbing.
AJM - Excellent set of goals. Put the effort in and get them done.
IainRUK - Good Mileage
Biscuit - Enjoy Morroco
Sankey - Sorry to hear about the drive out for no avail. Been there it sucks.
Deacondeacon - Nice Tick List long johns and Archangel are proper classics
Annak - Well done on your winter lead
Ally Smith - Fantstic trip well done
Exile - good goals for the year.
Ali - Quite a few sessions this week. Don't worry if some aren't as good as others
NMN - good mileage early in the year keep.
Ian Bell - Hope the arms okay
Maria85 - Thanks for sharing the story almost burst out laughing in my office .. Sorry I mean I hope your toe heels up fast.
Nomics4sale - Good Busy week. Keep up the training and you will get your goals in spain. Be careful with your finger.
Kevster - Fantastic trip really wish I could of joined you
MrChewy - I had a brief look (from the ground) at shortys about 15 months ago. Looked very sequency but once you have a sequence it would be pretty straight forward. I meant to get on it last year then didn't
Eagle River - Good luck working the 7c
Oddtoast - Bad weeks are standard at this time of year. Just make up for it ;)
Jimmykay - Wish I could of made this trip. Nice NYE Good effort at that one.
Pork Pie Girl - Good week on mileage
Curious Yellow - looks like a great year last year hope this year is as good.
AllyBee - Sounds like a fun trip even if the weather did not play ball
Seankenny - A grade hard than last year is always a good goal.

Hope all have/had a good week en
AJM - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Indoor/training priorities
  • Redpoint something hard indoors, and do aerocap laps at the end of each roped session to boost base fitness
  • Push bouldering as hard as possible. Do some campus boarding too - 1-3-5 on small rungs and 1-4-6 on medium at TCA
  • Try and do some vaguely systematic ancap work at Gloucester Wall
  • Proper slopy pocket hang on a wall Beastmaker; maybe mono hang too?
  • Rolling average weight/body fat - ?

<STG> - pre Ceuse/S France trip in May
  • Until roughly my birthday, focus on hard moves. Either boulder problems (a non-p/e Fb7 in a route-relevant style - maybe Churnet/peak lime/Dartmoor/Snowdonia?) or bouldery routes (Global Solutions, maybe Black Snake Moan if it dries up, other short and punchy local contenders, maybe something on Portland?).
  • Spend bulk of March/April working on power endurance redpoints (maybe incl bouldering Ames Low at p/e 7A+) plus onsighting (Portland maybe?) to get head in gear for trip
  • Maybe get some pumpy E2/3 trad in if opportunity presents? 

<MTG> - 2013
  • Complete the 8a pyramid (currently completed 6/8 x 7b+, 3/4 x 7c, 1/2 x 7c+, 0/1 x 8a)
  • Right Hand Man
  • 7c/+ "holiday tick" (UK route away from home and/or foreign route)
  • Some trad - 10x E3s, try some E4s?
  • Onsight mainly on or as prep for trips (see priority below for reasoning) - more 7a+s, try to onsight/flash 7b
  • Get in best shape possible for 2014 road trip - mainly this means going out as strong as possible since strength will inevitably fade over the trip

  • Well rounded E3 leader, tackling routes in committing locations (eg Dreadnought, Big Groove, Dream/Liberator, Lubyanka, short-ish alpine rock of that sort of grade)
  • E4 onsight
  • 8a before 30
  • 7a/+ onsights at hard continental crags (currently done 7a+ at: Rodellar, Geyikbayiri)

  • Big mountain routes like Tempi Moderne, Comici etc
  • E5 onsights
  • 8a/+ redpoints
  • 7b/+ onsights at hard continental crags
  • Some big silly bike ride like Pyrenees coast to coast or Tour du Mont Blanc or something

M: Turkey as reported
T: Eccentric hammer curls for the bicep
W: Eccentric hammer curls for the bicep
T: Eccentric hammer curls for the bicep
F: Nothing
S: Nothing
S: Plan to go to wall and do eccentrics later.

Quiet week as expected - some eccentrics, some overeating, trying to get house/life back in order after the Christmas and holiday bustle. Missus' parents down this weekend so it's been pretty chilled.

Hoping to restart some training this week - a wall session or two, some heavy fingerboard sessions (thinking the heavy weights and bigger holds might be the way to go), then it's the missus' birthday at the weekend so got plans to pop to the wall with friends Saturday for a social bit of a boulder...
JayK - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Pretty psyched this week. I've decided to book the Font trip for February half-term 16th-23rd and then go to Kalymnos for 10days during the Easter holidays. This all means one thing. I need to get strong.

So after the keenness to get 100 pull-ups i last Sunday it continued.

M-100 pull-ups
T-Climbing session up to v8 lot's of mileage. Plus leg raisers and 60 pull-ups.
W-Rest day
T-Forced rest day - Migraine after a long taxing day.
F-Climbing up to v8. Then pull-ups and levers to finish.
S-Another session at the wall. 1 hard slabby route and then circuits. Must have done about 50problems v4-v6. Virtually no rests. Finished with pull-ups ~ 60. Shattered.
S-Slow run around Sutton park. About 5miles. Might do some sit-ups this evening.

Next session is Tuesday.
Banned User 77 - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

m: 20 mile 1800m ascent fell run in cairngorms
t: 11.5 mile trail run
w: recovery run.. slow 3 miler
t: 15 mile road run @ 6:45 pace
f: 11.5 mile trail run
s: 22 mile, 1500m fell run over 3 munros in cairngorms
s: am 3 mile run. lunch: 5.5 mile run. pm: 7 mile run

Holding 95-100 mile weeks at the moment.. but start a new job in March so it'll stop then..
Keendan - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks again mate.

M-steady run 2 miles before breakfast.
--Climbing, trying hard circuits
W-8 x 240m hill runs, lower intensity but short rests. Good sesh I think
--Climbing, hard circuits and good burnout on beastmaker.
T-pull ups 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1
--Bleep test, level 13.0 Happy with this, didn't have the motivation to go further as no one else was running after 12.0
S-Climbing, big 4 x 4 sesh on 7a circuit, fell off on last lap, yes! finally some improvement there and I can turn my attention to harder things now. Wide press ups.
S-8 x 120m hill sprints, high intensity, long rests
--Assisted one armers, weighted pull ups and diamond press ups.

So two rest days, due to illness and not eating quite enough carbs. Still getting used to managing energy for exercise.

Feeling good now though, at 10 stone at 10% bodyfat (readings fluctuate either side but I have had my first sub 10% readings this week!)

:D very happy with the diet, I've achieved my goal from 5 weeks ago :D

Maintain 10stone
Stay below 10%
Work hard on low reps pull ups
Eat more protein (bought whey powder now)
grubes - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:
STG (Mar 2013):
Possible short half term font trip
More than 1 7 in spain maybe a grade push
Take lead falls (not fall practise). - Tick
MTG (July 2013)
Climb harder than 7a in UK and abroad.
Lead E3 try onsight
LTG (End of 2013):
Top out the chief
Boulder 7A/V6 UK and try get one in Squamish.
Climb Great wall at squamish
Weight loss!

Current weight tbc (scales not working)

This Weeks Goals:
Route climbing - Tick

M: Rest
T: Core and push up session
W: 5hours at Rokt.
15 mins warm up.
45mins LEad wall.
Flashed a full height (21.5m) 6a on lead
Flashed a full height 6b on lead
RP attempt on Wood 7a Fell on crux (lead fall).
1 hour hard bouldering
1 hour easy mileage bouldering.
30 mins Top rope
Flashed 6b
Did 6b+ with one rest.
30 mins core and training room.
1 hour lead wall.
RP attempts on wood powering out at crux. Took the lead fall every time.
T: Core and push up session
F: Rest
S: Holmfirth. Finished a 6B+ project I have been trying for ages. Also ticked a 5+ that I have not done before. I ended the day with the usual circuit and tried another one of my projects and made some progress.
S: Baslow. First trip.
Warmed up at Renaissance area. Onsighted a couple of easy boulders then onsighted Renaissance (5+) above mats. Brilliant problem
Next I went across to the balls Test (6B+) got this forth go Awesome!!!
Tried ripper next to it (7A+) I had a few goes but I was struggling with the first move.
Next up was Monument buttress. We tried Fact Hunt (7A+) and Dirty Bitch (7A). I got very close to dynoing the crux move on Fact hunt in isolation but saved energy as I got very close to Dirty Bitch.
As I worked dirty bitch I was getting closer and close and it felt very do able but ran out of steam. It felt good to be so close to a 7A. 7A this year could be on!
Ended the day on the Eagle Stone trying Where beagles Dare (7A+) and the beagle has landed (7A) but did not close.

Next Weeks goals:
Another long Rokt session
get out on rock

Really happy with my progress in bouldering.
Got my first 6B+ in a session and it was not really a full session
mattrm - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks Grubes.

Continuous - Shoulder / knee rehab / ankle strengthening
1 - Lose 1/2 stone (put on 1/2 stone)
2 - Improve finger strength (no progress)
3 - Improve footwork (went bouldering)
STG - Climb 6b @ wall, 12st 10lbs TICK
MTG - Climb 6c @ wall, 12st 8lbs
LTG - Climb 7a & E1, 12st 6lbs
VLTG - Climb 8a & E5, maintain weight - 11st
Aspirational - Climb E5/6, Scottish Winter VI, WI5, Redpoint 8a, stay injury free & maintain 11st

Weight - 12st 9lbs (lost 3 lbs)

M - 40 mins insanity workout
T - 9k intervals
W & T - Rest
F - 30mins upper body at gym
S - Rest
S - 1hr bouldering

Good week all in. Total weight loss is 5lbs over the last fortnight. The missus is still keen on her diet, so things are going well on that point. Went out with the local running club, hence the long run on Tuesday. Was good but my knee only just about lasted the distance. The insanity work out was knackering. So that's why I didn't do anything on Weds & Thurs. Got an ok bouldering session in. Struggling a bit on longer efforts as the diet means I don't have much in the tank. But still very happy with the weight loss. Plan for next week is to get an impromptu fingerboard/rail up.
NMN - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks Grubes.

Running goals:
Snowdon Race - 1h 35m.
Edale Skyline - 4h.
Ben Nevis Race - 2h 20m.
Wasdale - get round.

Get out climbing again & regularly onsighting VS / HS.
Push trad grade.
Lead a tough E1.

M - 5.02m road run, 64ft.
T - 5.00m road run, 64ft.
W – 5.02m road run, 64ft.
T – 5.08m road run, 64ft.
F – 6.05m road run, 149ft.
S - 5.03m road run, 61ft.
S - 5.02m road run, 62ft.

Too much work to do this week to do anything other than quick road runs in the evening.
deacondeacon - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

STG-back up to Font 7A's on grit (by end of january) (DONE)

MTG-few routes on my wishlist, long johns slab, archangel, the rasp. (by end of april)

LTG- consolidate E4, at least 10 (by the end of 2013)


Mon-17 mile cycle ride

Tue-14 mile cycle ride
Routes up to 6c at the foundry (felt week)

Wed-bouldering at Almscliff, highlight was a retro-flash of dolphin belly slap.

Thu-6.5mile cycle ride
Bouldering at the works, did 30 routes on the black circuit (approx 6A) onsighted most of

Fri-Trad at Froggatt with routes up to HVS, did Chequers Climb which was very good.

Sat-Routes at Stanage Plantation including two E1's and an E2

Sun-Soloing at Stanage up to VS


Feeling pretty happy with this week, my main goal was to get back into leading into the E-grades which I managed to do. I'm struggling to find new starred routes to try as I tend to only climb on Eastern grit and I've done most stuff at my grade. It means I tend to get on scrittly, dirty, frankly crap routes. I really need to start travelling further afield even if thats just over to western grit.
I really want to get on some harder stuff before the weather starts warming up again too.

Also about 37 miles on the bike this week, which definitely is starting to feel easier now. I'd like to be getting up to 100 miles a week which doesn't feel impossible.
Si dH - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:
Thanks Grubes. Curbar was good thanks, enjoying the grit at the moment

STG (this winter through to March): tick at least 10 new Ft 7s, including at least one Ft 7b, before Font [so far: 4 Ft 7a, 1 Ft 7a+]

MTG: tick at least 5 Ft 7as in Font in March

LTG (March-Dec 2013):
- tick F7c in Ceuse (may have to cancel trip though, so uncertain)
- aim to onsight 10 E3s and 1 E4 in 2013. I've also updated my wishlist to reflect some of the routes I want to do if I get the opportunity.

Weekly training plan up to March involves:
- 2 wall sessions, focusing on bouldering with occasional ancap
- 3 fingerboard sessions
- 1 outside day
- 1 rest day
(minus a wall or fingerboard session when I manage two outside days)

This week:

M: rest/growing skin
T: bouldering at Alter Rock. Reasonable session, did a lot of new problems although didn't manage any of the harder ones I tried; bit disappointing. I was on my own though so difficult to know whether it was me or if they are just haarrrd.
W: Fingerbord session. Pretty reasonable session.
T: Nothing. 11.5 hour day at work with no time even for lunch Head completely shagged afterwards, just vegetated.
F: Did 50 chin-ups before breakfast (10 sets of 5 with 10-15 second rests, mixture of slopers, crimps and jugs)) and 20 in the evening.
S: nothing - shopping and a bit of a walk with Ruth
S: bouldering at Plantation. Had a great day today, really fantastic weather and conditions - the best this season. Warmed up feeling strong on a few different things which was nice, then did Glass Hour (Ft 7a) fairly quickly - I had tried this last year so knew the sequence but hadn't previously got that close. Really good problem. Then went over to Not to be Taken Away (Ft 6c then highball V1), did it first go (I had tried it before so not a pure flash, but it was a couple of years ago) - was pleased with this, again an awesome problem. Then went over to DIY (E3 6a, but more like highball Ft 6b really with a few pads) - fell from the last hard move first go, fall was ok though, then did it second go. Then spent the rest of the day trying Shock Horror Slab (E1/2 6b / Ft 7a+). I got a sequence that will work for the crux start and once managed to get my foot on to the slab and reach the first reasonable sloper (ie basically did the crux), but fell off trying to get my weight on to it. Went through skin before managing that move again - sharp pebbles. Will go back for this.

Volume was low this week with only two proper training sessions (Tue/Wed) since last time outside the previous Saturday. I should have at least done some fingerboarding on Thursday but brain wasn't there. Work was really tough this week and probably will be for the next 2 or 3. Today was fantastic though, weather like that make such a difference. Really enjoyed the slightly highball stuff too, and probably not a bad way to start getting my head in gear for trad.

Hopefully get the training volume up this week.

Si dH - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:
PS well done getting close to a Ft 7a, they are hard - my first was a real milestone for me. Baslow looks great, for some reason I've never got round to going; I assume they are all really cool problems?
Sankey - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes: Quite a busy week, went out on the grit in the first time for a while, was able to repeat my usual circuit at Apparent North without too much difficulty. Add in more problems and start working some harder ones next time I go.

M: Static Bike 7.5 km
T: Matrix - crap session, wall was heaving and had no focus
T: Foundry - did vast majority of level 1 problems
S: Run 4.6 miles (44 mins)
S: Bouldering at Stanage App North, probs V1-3

STG: V4 ish boudlering e.g. Walnut Traverse at Birchen -WORKING / Crucifix traverse at Almscliff
2 problems I couldn't quite do last winter, so good benchmarks

MTG: RP 6c in Turkey Feb 5th onwards / French 7a boulder traverse equivalent at churnet

LTG: 7a Sport RP
Ali - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes: Thanks Grubes!

2013 goals:
Jan-mid Feb - Continue with current indoor volume and try and get at least two weekends (or days of weekends) in sport climbing. Tick a couple of 7as, or one 7a and a 6c onsight/flash. Run at least twice a week for up to an hour.

Overall goals:
- 7a flash
- 6c onsight (I did one or two this year but more consistent)
- E2 onsight
- Respectable performance at major orienteering events (ideally top half of age class, but this rather depends on the competition!)
- Another 7b tick (ideally 7b+ but that may be too much to hope for!)

This week:

M - rest (worked late)
T - Street orienteering - lost probably about 4 mins due to either the 'controls' being in the wrong place or ambiguous clues (which were explained at the top, but I didn't read all the instructions as that eats into your time!), which was annoying especially as a lot of people got given grace (i.e. didn't hang around, complained and got given the points anyway!). So not an amazing run, but as always good to be out.
W - cycled to work and back (11 miles return) - felt hard work
T - nothing
F - nothing (worked late)
S - Went to a trial session of the British Military Fitness class - an hour of running, press ups, squats and sit ups. Have never done so many press ups in my life (managed not to have to resort to girlie ones though even when my arms were collapsing) and squats hurt from the first one. Hung around in the cold too much after and stiffened up. Ached a lot.
S - Woke up aching a lot...walking down the stairs was painful...getting dressed was painful...maybe I should have done the girly press ups after all... Anyway went to the Biscuit Factory for planned session and once I'd warmed up a bit wasn't too bad. Managed to do about 11 blues and reds (v2s - v5s but there didn't seem to be many v2s...) and tried quite a few more that I couldn't do!). Had a tea break and lost psyche / stiffened up. Did a bit more but failed on most things and was really physically tired. Feel a bit wrecked now.

Looking to replace one run session a week with BMF which I'm hoping will not break me quite as much in the future... reasoning being, it'll help my leg strength (currently v poor) and overall fitness which will help my running (particularly the hills) plus hopefully balance out some of the muscles I don't use so much when climbing. Hoping I don't end up with thunder thighs...
grubes - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Si dH:
Yea pretty cool.
Video here

Glass hour is one I want to try ... Landings a little iffy so puts me off. Great tick and Not to be taken away if just one of those lines that screams out climb me!
AJM - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

Didn't get to the wall in the end. Went for a walk instead, but otherwise van faff happened. Drill batteries struggled with the cold though!

Training can kick off tomorrow...
AllyBee on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

STGs (next couple of months):
1) Get braver:
Do at least two roped wall sessions a week, and at each one take at least five lead falls from above the bolt. Also try just letting go after clipping the anchor, instead of waiting for the rope to go tight.
2) Get stronger:
Pull-up sets twice a week on the large holds on the fingerboard. Work up to being able to do three unassisted pull ups in a row (I can currently do almost one...)
3) Get fitter:
Climbing fitness: at least two wall sessions a week (as above), and do some aerobic training on the fingerboard (20-30 mins feet-on hanging, moving hands between holds, in front of TV)
General fitness: sign up for a lunchtime exercise class at the University gym. It's right next to my building so there's no excuse!

MTG (start of spring, when the weather gets better):
Go to Portland and try to onsight as many 6a's and 6a+'s as I can...

LTG (by January 2014, when we leave for our road trip)
1) I'd like to be at a level where I can onsight 6b consistently, 6b+ with some effort and 6c on a good day when I'm trying really hard.
2) 7a redpoint

Lazy week this week! Going back to work was a shock to the system after last week's holiday, then we had a belated Christmas with my parents at the weekend. Going to get on the fall training next week though
Ian Bell - on 13 Jan 2013
Hi all

Quiet week with dodgy arm and feeling a bit ill.

Fri- castle routes. A number of 6b and 6b+ mostly os. 7a+ dog tr, couldn't finish. 6c+ dog tr.

Sun - white spider. 2 7a attempts, both with moves I couldn't do. 3x6c+ lead. One os, one dog, one couldn't finish. A number of other 6b-6c about two thirds os. Knackered!

Good volume in the 2 times I did go and at least getting on harder stuff. Skiing for 4 days next week so likely no climbing. Gonna be great!
Exile - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Hope so grubes, we'll see!


Best efforts outdoors last year:
RP - 7a
HP - E5 6b
Boulder - V4
Onsigth E2/3,
Winter VI 6

Goals for this Spring:
Boulder V7
RP - 7a+ / 7b
HP - E6
Winter - VI 7

Onsight more E3s leading to an E4 onsight.

This week:

M: 1hr climbing wall bouldering for power, 20 min core
T: 2hrs climbing wall bouldering for power, 40min road running
W: Rest
T: 45min road run, 20 min core
F: 1hr climbing wall bouldering for power, 1 hr dry tooling
S: Rest
S: 2hrs climbing wall bouldering for power, 20 min core


I've very unexpectedly gained access to a bouldering wall I can use at any time of day, which means I can train before work. As a result I'm now able to do more climbing in a week.

My main aim for the present six week block is to develop power, with a secondary aim of being winter fit for VI 7. Does the above week look reasonable or frankly too much bouldering? I'm beginning to think that I may need to be not quite so keen and drop one of the one hour morning sessions as I felt a little tired starting bouldering today, or do I just need to get on with it!?!

Thanks for help.
AJM - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:

I figure if you want to train strength/power you should probably be fresh at the start of each session. That way you can give most in each session. But of course if you step up the volume your body will gradually adapt to it, so theres a balancing act...
Si dH - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:
Glass hour landing is ok as you always come off in the same direction, but you do need 3 pads (maybe 2 big ones) to cover the ground and a spotter to stop you, as you tend to fly off the arete and run off down the hill!
JayK - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Glass Hour is one of my favourite problems at the Plantation. Overlooked it for years, and now do it on every visit.

Also think Shock Horror Slab is absolutely nails and minging. Pebble-atrocity.
Eagle River - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks grubes.

Goal: 7c by April 2013

Mon: indoor routes
Thurs: indoor routes
Sat: indoor routes.

Each indoor routes session has been pretty much the same, warm up then get on 7c project then after 5 attempts (when I'm going backwards on it) get on some 7a/7a+ that I'm too tired to do so fall off.

Feels like I'm getting close now to the 7c. I've refined the first crux move plus the top crux move and got to within 4 hand moves of the top on saturday from the floor so it might go this week if I'm lucky.

Got a coaching session booked in for Sunday next week which will be interesting. I've been applying nik's "try harder" mantra for about 13 months now and have definitely seen improvement in my climbing. Want to know where to go from here because I keep thinking I'm not doing enough (compared to most fit clubbers).

Having said that I've got to the point of doing 7c's indoors and feeling like I've got enough for them outdoors (if it ever gets dry) and all I've done is climb 3 times a week. No specific core work, no fingerboarding, no 4x4s etc just lots of trying routes too hard for me with the odd bouldering session thrown in. I guess more structure and more effort is required to make that jump from nearly 7c to nearly/doing 8a like AJM/Nick etc.
AJM - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

> I guess more structure and more effort is required to make that jump from nearly 7c to nearly/doing 8a like AJM/Nick etc.

I saw that comment, and it inspired me to get my lazy ass out of my chair and do some fingerboarding. Thanks

Deeper 2-finger pockets on the bm felt easy, managed to body weight hang the bottom rung pockets although not the slopy ones. Managed to very nearly do 3x 10sec half crimp with +8kg on the rails. Could 3-finger drag them at body weight too. Can't remember what my peak in the last strength phase was, but that doesn't feel like a terrible place to start from.
AllyBee on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

I just felt shamed into doing some fingerboarding too:
- 15 mins feet on hanging, moving hands between the big pockets
- 5 pull ups with rest in between

Nomics4sale - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Morning everyone. Thanks grubes and well done on your bouldering at the weekend. 2 days on dry rock! I feel ashamed of myself for not getting out.

STG: V6 at BBUK, 7b RP indoors or out
MTG: 7b RP in Spain in March
LTG: more E1s Summer 2013 and look at E2.

Mon: BBUK, half hearted as I was worried about my finger.
Tues: 4.5 mile night trail run with Bowland runners
Wed: 10.7 mile run, 1,195m ascent. Swirral Edge, Helvellyn, Fairfield, St Sunday from Patterdale.
Thurs: Kendal Wall, ticked a 7a from last week and had another go on the long 7a. Should go next time.
Fri: nowt
Sat: Preston wall, tried a 7a, no go. Tried another 7a, no go. Then 3 goes at a 7a+ which might go next time.
Sun: 10.7 mile trail run Pendle Hill, 460m ascent.

Still failing to get on a V6 or 7b.

Finger is better, although it's still swollen and sore, it's not as bad as it was. I've been doing cold treatment and massage and haven't been on a fingerboard at all. I'm going to carry on with this until it is fully recovered.
Ally Smith on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Lower intensity recovery week this week. Awesome walls route grading had me convinced that my PE had deserted me (needed 3 hangs to get to the top of the "7a+" (7b+?) on the steep wall) but then had great Parisella's session and nearly did 8A. Go figure?!?

LTG (End 2013) - Unjustified at Malham

MTG (Spring 2013) - Melanchollie at LPT & Terredets at Easter (maybe try Fish Eye at Oliana?)

STG (end Jan 2013)
- Stick to the plan - volume and intensity cranks up now.
- Focus on an-cap for next few weeks including campus sessions - Keep up the elbow eccentrics to avoid problems
- Yoga and core sessions
- Get back below 75kg (77kg and 6.9% BF currently)
- Hatch Life and Lou Ferrino in the Cave

M - 1.5hr Yoga. 1st time in 2 years, but straight in at the deep end with the "advanced" class. Realised most of my flexibility comes from lower back - hamstrings need attention.
T - Nowt
W - AWL - bouldering on barrel and stepped wall upto v6 ish. Flash or a few goes.
T - Late working - bit of stretching
F - getting spanked by AWL routes; think everything needs small hands to feel doable/not a sandbag. Found 2 6c+'s which should be good for aero-cap.
S - Woke up with sore throat. Took it easy and tidied house etc
S - Felt better. Went to Cave. 2 new v8's in split infinity. Came close to Hatch Life (got to swing across 3 times) and got shown beta on LF. Good session - tired core this morning.

More yoga tonight; supposedly a more core focused session. We'll have to see how hard it is!
annak on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Cheers grubes. Quite a good week last week, not pushing mega hard but managed to get a lot of fun out of my various sessions.

M: run 3.7miles in 28:18 (appears to be my 'fresh' pace)
cycle 7 miles

Tu: cycle 14 miles

W: run 38 mins, cycle 10 miles

Th: bouldering @ Biscuit Factory, pretty good session
cycle 6 miles

F: run 3 miles, cycle 8 miles

Sa: climbing at Froggatt: VD, S (lead), S, HS (lead), HS/VS. Really enjoyable day, climbing as a three so slightly chilly but very sociable.

Su: climbing at Rivelin: HVD (lead), S, HS/VS (lead), S, HS (lead). Caveman caper was hilarious brute force and filthy. We both got out asses whooped by a S 4a, tragically - neither of us could get up it at all! Oops. Maybe we were too tired after all the other routes. Maybe.

This week: off to Lillehammer to go cross-country skiing on Thursday, super excited!
mrchewy - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes: Ta Grubes = sounds like you had a good week's climbing, that 7a will come soon.

Mon - Climbing wall, couple of routes and a go at some of the new boulder problems.
Tue - Nowt
Wed - Nowt
Thu - Nowt
Fri - Boulder room for a couple of hours but seem to have gone backwards. Struggling on V1, lost any strength I had on crimps.
Sat - 30 min session of running, hill sprints, fartlek and some tabata.
Sun - Boulder room. It's def going all wrong.

Bit dejected with the climbing this week, just don't seem to progress and there's a definite step back this week. Seem to struggle indoors if I've been outside for some reason. Finger strength seemed down as well. Going back to basics - no jug pulling to get up V3 or 6b anymore. Will try and stick to small holds and work technique for a while.

Was a busy week after being away, work has now stepped up a gear too. This week will be hard to fit anything in with a work trip abroad and 14hr days beforehand. Ho hum.

maria85 - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:
You're welcome for the laugh! It is mending quite well now, even managed a short (10 min) run in the snow today

Last week's goals:

- FOUR (yes, four) core and fingerboard sessions. 3 1/2 fb, 4 core
- Hoping to get back on the bike towards the end of the week. no... I did try but bike shoes were too tight
- Not be tempted by trying to do anything too soon and rip the bugger open again tick... though Striding Edge was maybe tempting fate a little!
- Come up with specific goals for this year, have only generalised so far.Mostly done, trying to be really specific (week by week steps to achieve them etc) takes time...

M: Nothing
T: Core
W: Core and a half-arsed fingerboard session
T: Fingerboard
F: Core & fingerboard before work
S: Hour and a half walk at a good pace
S: Striding Edge then over Helvellyn and down near Raise. Snowy and whiteout on top. Toe aching a little but nothing too major.
Core and fingerboard, but feeling really weak.

Been quite nice to relax a bit this week. Have seen improvements with the fb already, managed 4 pull ups on Fri! (I could do one at a push last week). Back into it as much as I can this week, aiming for:

2x climbing wall (gentle/one footed!)
Orienteering (possibly walking it)
3x core and fb
Bike to work x 1
3x short, gentle runs
oddtoast on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes: Huzzah for justification grubes, much obliged ;)

Pleased to report a much better week:

M: Nothing
T: Routes at Hgt - started off slow but got better, focused on leading, only got up one 6a but pleased with one particular tricky 5+.
W: Off sick with migraine, ouch.
T: Bouldering - The reset feels different and has messed with my perception of the colours. It feels like the overlap has gone. Kept going back to a black I just couldn't do (upper body strength mostly) and got further but skin gave up on me.
F: Nothing
S: Went for a run in daylight for first time! Restarting couch to 5k to try and do it properly (i.e x2-3 a week)
S: Nothing
Kevster - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks Grubes.

Queit week for me, plenty of beer too.

Tue: Indoors - coasted
Sat: Indoors (Reach) leading -tried harder, did OK too.

Reach: Newish set on the overhang - Any one else find they get bouldery tough once in the 7's? Highlights a weakness - arms.

This week: I'll be lucky to climb twice. However am going to the outdoor show to buy shiny things....

Cheers, Kev
Jamming Dodger on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes: I feel like I need to document what I do to re-gain some focus and hopefully get hints here and there. My head and direction feels very wishy-washy right now.
I went climbing again recently and really am starting back at square one. Not that I was very good to begin with but the difference in stamina and confidence is worrying.
I had various goals last year which Ive decided I simply dont have time to focus on all at once so ive picked a couple which should be do-able:
Got an off-road run in May which is going to be nails; need to get fit for that. Get a six pack so I look good on the photos. Grrrr.
Get back to lead climbing and bouldering regularly and take a trip to Font at the end of March. This may be hard cause I cant belay so finding understanding regular partners may be problematic.
Keep up with the riding but dont pressure myself into chomping up the miles for the sake of it.
All of these things will be made much easier by losing a stone which has found its way to my middle. If I keep up the commuting and just say no to crisps then that should take care of that.
Monday: 28 mile bike commute.
Tuesday: 28 mile bike commute.
Wednesday: 28 mile bike commute.
Thursday: About 25 miles bike.
Friday: 20 miles bike. Meant to ride further but I wasnt feeling inspired. Did a couple of hours at the climbing wall- a few toproped easy routes plus bouldering. Feel VERY heavy.
Saturday: Did a quick run.
Sunday: More climbing. Arms and fingers still sore from Friday and spent the rest of the day a bit bummed out by feeling so unfit.

Goals for the coming week: Get 3 commutes in (hello snow and ice), a climbing session done and at least 1 run. Core work every eve when I get home.

Sankey - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to mrchewy: wouldn't sweat it too much. I usually get spanked most at the wall after long succesful outdoor climbing trips. As for going backwards, I think it is easy to overlook more subtle progress that might not result in an improved grade e.g larger volume of climbing, longer sessions, shorter rests etc. Unless you keep a really accurate record this is hard to track. Also one week is too short to call a crisis. Chin up!
mrchewy - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Sankey: Thanks. Had a mad week and not a lot of sleep, I'm therefore, probably, just being a bit hard on myself. Won't be climbing much the next two weeks due to work and after reading everyone's posts - wasn't feeling too psyched.

I don't find plastic easy to climb on at the best of times, always seem to have fewer options than rock and I'm aware of it more after a trip outside.

Chin is sorted.
mrchewy - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Jamming Dodger: Crisps are always a problem!

Looks a good week when written down, I'd be happy with that and sore arms and fingers are to be expected when you've not climbed in a while.
thebigfriendlymoose - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River:
>Want to know where to go from here because I keep thinking I'm not doing enough (compared to most fit clubbers)....... guess more structure and more effort is required to make that jump from nearly 7c to nearly/doing 8a like AJM/Nick etc.

Well, you can rest assured that you do more than me, so don't be too hard on yourself. I practically never do anything other than climb on Saturday and Sunday (admittedly fairly intensely) - with utterly no structure, just following whims. That's why I'm not in Fitclub, scared I'd be the climbing equivalent of the Weight-watchers member who gets castigated every meeting for eating cake!
Ali - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Kevster:

> Reach: Newish set on the overhang - Any one else find they get bouldery tough once in the 7's? Highlights a weakness - arms.

Yes! I managed to get up the yellow 6c fine, I can usually get up most of the 6c/6c+s (not necessarily clean but if I worked them usually ok) but the 7s totally shut me down. Tried a 7a on toprope which I could do the moves on, but clips pretty desperate, and a 7b which I gave up on after not being able to do two or three of the moves in the first half - and these are moves I can't imagine me ever doing at the moment, and power tends to be my stong point!

Bit of weird grading going on? I was thinking of taking ER's lead and trying to redpoint more indoors but not so psyched by the harder routes at the Reach.

Ali - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose: There is nothing wrong with eating cake.... :-S
Eagle River - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Luckily this isn't weight watchers or else I'd also get done for eating cake. And curry.

I think the intensity of the indoor sessions is good and I really need the rest between them so I'm not sure where I'd fit in other stuff without getting run down/injured. I guess I like to perform well in the sessions/outdoors too much to have knackered myself on the fingerboard the day before climbing.
Eagle River - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Listen to me already making excuses for not doing more work before any has even been suggested.
seankenny - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks Grubes, and good effort on the five hour training session, sounds like a right beasting! I usually fall asleep the moment I get home if I try such things.

Rough goals for 2013:
Redpoint a 7b (probably at Portland or Swanage).
Climb some E3s.

I'm keeping the goals very simple this year as usually I find I totally over-estimate the amount of time I have and consequently the amount of stuff I can actually get done.

Training for the winter will also be suitably simple: get strong for a bit, then work on my power-endurance and stamina. Do more on falling practice.

So, with that out of the way:
M: Bouldering at WW, up to about V3 with no chalk and ill-fitting shoes found in a cupboard.
T: 2.2m run before breakfast.
W: 1.4m run
T: Bouldering at WW, two hours. Got halfway up a V6 arete. Moved onto the steeper of the two bouldering walls, could barely do anything - managed two of the easier problems but nothing else.
F: Bouldering at WW, one hour. More very steep problems.
S: Nothing, long day at work.
S: Walking around Richmond Park with my gf, 2.2m run in the evening which was very very cold.

A good week for me, managed to do something every day but Saturday, when I'd been on my feet all day. Would like to have a week doing something every day but something always seems to crop up.

Finally decided to get on the steeper stuff (despite mostly wanting to do typical vertical UK trad in the summer). Got totally shut down by nearly every problem, so this is obviously a serious weakness. Hope to spend much more time on here if my shoulders can stand it.
Kevster - on 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Ali:
The yellow 6c I thought was fine too.
Not one to throw stones (and not trying to), but I think the route setters style/strengths have shone through in their work. Unfortunatly I don't share the same strengths and found alternatives lacking. I did the 7a (red?), 7a+ (cant remember colour, maybe red or pink too) and 7b(blue). There were similar stopper moves on both 7a's which I could just about boulder 2nd go. The 7b Blue was plain nails - I too quit at the top of the initial overhang.

Havng said that, hard is good training. Just a bit of an ego bashing as the last set I onsight'd the majority and I was hopiung for some extra mileage over the weekend. Indoors is hard for psyche. Bring on the good weather!
grubes - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to mrchewy:
out of interest which is your local climbing wall?

If finger strength is weak try finding a mildly over handing wall. (say 10-20° max) and try some crimpy problems.
It will engage your core and require body tension but not as much as really steep juggy stuff however it will be a good finger work out and it is essential to get your feet right and keep them active.
Warm up throughly first though.

Might also be worth trying some harder problems maybe try a v5 that plays to your strengths to see how you get on with that?

Works trips suck for exercise .. I always take my stuff in hope to get in some swimming or time at the jim but the long days and evening meals always get in the way

On the indoors v outdoors thing. Indoors is hard. you tend to be constantly climbing no rests no faff. Try to rest longer between problems this might help? before you try again. On something hard wait for your breething to return to normal then count to 60.

As for my 7a I am there with that one. I should get it next session with less knackering my self bouldering. Its a bouldery route 12m ish overhangin on small edges. Once I get the two steep short routes ticked I am going to try do the long stamina 7a's (21.5m) I am enjoying breaking the routes down and working them.
Good redpoint practise I guess.
grubes - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
You definately do not need to visit weight watchers .. if you did you would proboably be castrated by a 60yr old woman half your size who weighs 4 stone more than you and only eats low fat yoghurt in an aim to lose ½ a lb a week ..
mrchewy - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes: I use Pinnacle in Northampton - most visitors complain how tough it's graded (Alex Fry)but it seems pretty fair to me. V0 tops out at English tech 5b, we even had a 5c slab problem once that was V0.

Your point about using the 15degree panel to strengthen the fingers on crimpy holds was pretty much what I was doing but the last set had nothing suitable on it for me, being either too easy or too hard. This set it has a couple I can use regularly once I have them nailed. The V1 seems tougher than the V2, I was trying to dyno off tiny holds onto a crimp because I'd gone a bit potty I think - it's just a big rockover, a static move really and all about core tension. Thanks for reminding me, much appreciated and next visit I'll make them my focus, rather than the big jugs under the roof.

I'll be looking forward to reading the next fit club... your 7a is going down!
Luke Owens - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

Hey guys, think I'll join in, looking forward to 2013 after a good 2012 so listing my goals and training publicly should be fun.

STG: Redpoint 7b, Boulder V6 consistently
MTG: Redpoint 7c, Tick a V7
LTG: Redpoint 8a, Boulder V8

M - Rest
T - Indoor Bouldering, ticked V5/V6 project and repeated another V5, Flashed alot of V3's.
W - Rest
T - Fingerboard repeaters, personal best managed 3 sets of 4 different grip types for the first time - psyched!
F - Rest
S - Ruthin Escarpment - Ticked a F6c that I didn't used to be able to get off the ground on. Repeated a V3 that I did last January that I used to find nails did it first go and repeated it 4 times in the day. It's the start of a 7b I did all the moves on in the same session. No time for a redpoint as the little one woke up!
S - Rest

Going back to Ruthin on Sunday to redpoint the 7b, hopefully get it ticked as 7b is a goal for this year!

Recently lost 3 pounds of weight as I'm helping the girlfriend on a healthy eating plan, probably wouldn't be wise to lose much more as I weigh 149 lbs. . . Feel stronger lately though.
mrchewy - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Luke Owens: Welcome to the club fella.
JayK - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Luke Owens:

Pwll-glas! My grandad used to take me and my cousins there from Ruthin when I was younger. Went again a few years ago and I remember there being an amazing looking clean face of steep limestone with some shiny new bolts in. Spoke to Lee P and he said him and Doylo had put in a lot of effort on that wall. Any good?
Luke Owens - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

Yeah, it's now known as Butterfly Butress and has some great routes and problems.

Problems range from 6B - 7B. The routes are brilliant and very bouldery (they're all 2 bolts in length!). Going left to right theres a 6c, 7b, 7c and a 6c+.

Great little crag that was suprisingly dry, all the Clwyd limestone crags are usually seeping like crazy this time of the year!
pork pie girl - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

christmas cake has been my main fuel on bike rides for the last month and it beats bananas withiout a doubt... i feel like i've burnt one of those off doing a twenty minute hill climb... i'd need one for every climb i did... one of the climbs we do takes about an hour... i'd need to put bananas in a blender and constantley suck it through my camel back bladder! cake is the way forward.

like you i don;t see where i could fit finger board sessions in without causing injury... if i climb 5 times a week (often do) and weight training twice a week, cardio 6-7 times per week the finger borad stuff isn;'t going to happen. i tried a bit last winter and ended up using it after sesisons a the wall ay 9pm whulst waitinmg for teh microwave to warm up my lasagne.. didn;t benefit much from it.

i thought about starting fingerboard stuff again and doing ti on the woody at the wall after workinging routes/problems but surefly i'd feel too knackered after the climbing session?

does anyone have nay helpful tips regarding fingerboard training as an add on not a substitute to actual climbing?
pork pie girl - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to grubes:

w/c 7th jan
s -1 hour cardio in gym (bike, interval training) core work and stretching for 20 mins. 3 hour bouldering session.. working two v7s and mileage on v4-v6
m -weights inc pull ups and core at luch time. pm carido in gym and 1.5 hr bouldering (v5-v7)
t pm cardio in gym, bouldering for a couple of hours, same as night before
w- 45 mins cardio at lucnh time. weights including core and pull ups
t rest day
f -1 hour bouldering (felt rubbish) 45 cardio, core and stretching. 1.5 hours of bouldering.. better after gym workout
s -am 4 hour mtb ride, fely hungry for most of the ride even thoiugh i'd eaten a good tea the night before, small breeakfast and two bananas on the ride. it was very cold so think i was burning more energy because of this. 1.5 hour boudkering session. working v7 problem and then 20 min rainbow traversing

going to incorporate locking off into my wide grip pull ups next week in the gym to help with locking off on steep ground ... it might work?
AJM - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

I use a fingerboard a fair bit but then only go to the wall 2-3 times in a usual week. If I went 5x per week I'd probably have no skin left, and if I didn't mix the type of session up would not be performing well on the max effort sessions after a few days. If I were going to find a way to squeeze some fingerboarding into your week it would be instead of some of the gym and cardio sessions, but that's from the perspective of a climber rather than a multi-activity person - I'd rate fingerboard as more relevant to my climbing than gym or cardio so would prioritise it. You may well have different priorities or weaknesses to train though.

In reply to Eagle River:

Sounds like all your wall sessions are performance rather than training then? Fwiw I definitely find I need to warm up more thoroughly the day after a fingerboard session (I rarely do 3 fingerboard sessions on the trot as by day 3 it does need a very gradual warm-up which is harder on a fingerboard) but find after that time that my performance isn't really affected second day on and is usually ok even if the wall session follows 2 days of fingerboard work.

I guess it also depends on your weakness - your wall training is going to be mixing energy systems up a lot but will have a focus on aerobic and pe stuff over pure strength, whereas fingerboard just hits strength really. As a sport climber who started life as a strong boulderer, that's maybe better for you than it would be for me, who came into sport originally from more of a fit-but-weak background of trad climbing and who has still probably got as close to my max boulder grade on routes as on boulders... so maybe if max strength isn't a limiting factor for you then you'd see less benefit from increasing the training load that way than another way, I guess is what I'm saying (although versus not increasing it at all, that's maybe different...)
pork pie girl - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

i'm an activity freak i know... but if i climb 5 days a week (can't do more because of time and also would get finger injuries) then when would i fit finger board sessions in if i aim to rest my fingers and wrists twice a week?

should i sacrifice a climbing sesison or two for finger baording? fingerboarding isn';t very exciting though neither's indoor climbing but it's better than fingerboarding :o/
AJM - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

If you don't want to sacrifice other activities or any climbing sessions and you don't want to do more than 5 sessions a week the only option I can think of is to do it at the same time as a volume/aero session, if you do them.
Ally Smith on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

Yep - that's the way forward. Mix your sessions up; good combinations could be:

Fingerboard + AnCap
Fingerboard + AeroCap
AnCap + AeroCap
AeroPow + AeroCap

Just realise that you won't be "performing" in the latter session, i.e. no show boating, drop your grade and take heart from the fact that you'll come back stronger!

Same goes for the chap (Eagle River?) trying to redpoint an indoor 7c. Your total training volume is probably slipping; don't single mindedly try and redpoint the route. You don't need massive amounts of structure to your training, just some discipline to do what's needed rather than getting too goal orientated.

Go away, put the work in, come back stronger and crush it!
Exile - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

I tag a bit of finger boarding onto the end of my bouldering sessions at the moment as over the last few weeks I've gone up to 4 - 5 climbing sessions a week. At the moment my bouldering sessions are around improving power so I sometimes finish 'powered out' but still able to hang stuff. If I try the finger board at the end of one of these sessions and it doesn't feel right I'll just leave it.

This strategy may not work as well when I get onto a power endurance phase.
Exile - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

As I'm relatively new to this can you explain AnCap / AeroCap / AeroPow to me please?
Ally Smith on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:

Each describes an different energy system:

AeroCap = Aerobic capacity = "stamina" in old speak = working with oxygen; energy is produced via the Krebs cycle without the production of lactate as a by-product. training how many moves you can do aerobically, i.e. without getting pumped

AnCap = An-aerobic Capacity = "top end power endurance" in old speak = your training how many hard moves (just submaximal you can do before failure). From a technical perspective an-cap = working without oxygen; energy comes from glycolysis only. However, you fail before getting pumped i.e. you're "powered out" as you're pulling so hard that you shut down capillary blood supply.

AeroPow = Aerobic Power = "power endurance" in old speak = classic how much of a pump can you tolerate and still keep knocking out "hard" moves. You're pulling hard enough that you're not working aerobically and the by-products, including lactate. The osmotic pressure of these, as well as the shutting of capillaries means that you get pumped out of your brains.
Ally Smith on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

AJM - you might want to correct these comments as I understand you proof read a manuscript whilst in Gorge du Loup last summer?
mrchewy - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith: Cheers - that's the best explanation I've read yet. Not sure how it helps me but I'm sure it will at some point in the future.

AJM - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

After I got home, but yes. I don't know what's happened with that. Don't remember cycles off the top of my head though!

Yeah I tend to think of aerocap as "pumped but in control", you can keep pottering along with a slight pump but you can always shake it out. I always thought ARC was the one where you didn't get pumped at all. But yeah you'll be working very much aerobically still, probably at your aerobic threshold or just above?

Ancap, yeah sort of crossover between long boulder strength and P end power endurance - resistance to powering out.

And aeropower, definitely E end power endurance where you get boxed silly.
AJM - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

Oh and I remember Tom telling me at some point that fully anaerobic work could only be sustained for 50s tops. By my reckoning that should mean even aeropower is mainly sourcing energy aerobically, just the amount of anaerobic involved too means it's unsustainable hence the pump
pork pie girl - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:

might try it after bouldering then
pork pie girl - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

it all sounds very technical and complicated for me... i just like trying hard and climbing lots
Keendan - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith and AJM,

Very helpful descriptions, thanks both of you.

Exile - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

As an aside, do you periodise your training and build in easy weeks if you are doing that volume, or can you get away with it without?
Exile - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

Old Speak - now you're talking my language!!!

Thanks for the explanation, pretty much what I thought but good to have it confirmed. Do you mix the session types up pretty equally in training blocks or do you priorotise one over another eg 4wks AnCap, 4wks AeroPow, 4 wks AeroCap?
AJM - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:

Ancap in theory takes about 16 weeks to max out. Aeropower and aerocap about 8 weeks.

So an idealised 6-month training cycle to peak for a trip might look like:

Weeks 0-8, focus mainly on strength and ancap, maintenance of others
weeks 9-16, bring in significant aerocap as well as ancap (easily added at the end of a session) and strength - again maintenance pe only
then weeks 17-24 - aeropower, couple of sessions a week, with some maintenance ancap and aerocap (prioritise maybe depending if your goals are to redpoints or onsight between these). Last 10-14 days should be a taper where you keep intensity high, dump the "cap" stuff altogether and aim for about 50% volume, but keeping it intense.

Ally has a training plan from the master himself though so might well be able to overrule all of this!
mrchewy - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM: I was starting to get it and now I'm just confused again. Nowt to do with you, it's something I think I'd need to be shown or 'coached'. I'll stick with trying harder than I do and chatting less...
Eagle River - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

> Same goes for the chap (Eagle River?) trying to redpoint an indoor 7c. Your total training volume is probably slipping; don't single mindedly try and redpoint the route. You don't need massive amounts of structure to your training, just some discipline to do what's needed rather than getting too goal orientated.

I did that 7c tonight!

In terms of Volume my indoor sessions typically involve warming up (3/4 routes with some deliberate falling off) then ~5 good attempts at project route which leaves me knackered, at which point I drop down to a 7a/7a+ that I'm too tired to do and try that about 3 times, usually unsuccessfully but with maximum effort. That leaves me completely spent. I noticed the difference tonight when I got the 7c first attempt then went round ticking off 7a/7a+s that I'd not done. Had loads more in the tank than a usual projecting session.

Keendan - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

Wow great work man
mrchewy - on 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River: 8a soon!
Exile - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

Interesting stuff! Having read some training stuff I was of the opinion that power training, (AnCap?) gave vastly dminishing returns after about 6 weeks.
AJM - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:

Ancap isn't power training as such. A typical ancap training session might involve 10 repeats of a 12-15 move circuit, with failure on about 25% of goes, with rest times 2-4x climbing time. Progress is by making it harder rather than by cutting the rest interval.

I've been told that the capacity training should be more static and that its when you hit the aeropower/anpower training that you should step up the dynamic powerful styles of climbing, but then I've also heard campus board ancap sessions get a very good writeup because they're so easy to quantify progress on.
Exile - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

Right - so would 4x4 be an AnCap training session, (what I would call top end power endurance,) or is that something else?
AJM - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:

Boulder problem 4x4 is aeropower. Route 4x4 can be used to train aerocap.

Ancap is a funny one because the number of moves is beyond what a lot of people do as boulder training but below what people would do for pe usually. That's probably why the people who have started training it systematically have such good experiences with it. It's almost the missing link between boulder problems and routes, and I suspect a lot of UK sport route cruxes boil down to 10-15 hard moves... The only training protocol for it I've heard is the one I described, although ally may know of others.
pork pie girl - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Eagle River: good one steve
pork pie girl - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile:
i don;t tend to do easier weeks but i don't think i push myself as hard as i could in all the climbing sessions

generally get away with it in some ways but i think i might slow down progress sometimes but i haven't slowed down to see if i'd benefit. i also get an elbow injury during the winter becaue i'm doing steeper bouldering problems and have had a finger injury since august..the only signs of elbow injury is sudden weakness and it giving way when i'm pressing.. so things like chest and triceps exercises.. and a bit of soreness when out on my bike on my technical ground with the vibration, so doens't both me too much with everything else. Had a week off climbing but it didn;t help with the finger or elbow. but neither injury gets any worse . the finger injury sometimes holds me back on routes where i have to crimp alot woith my left hand.. but i'm experiemneting with taping it up differently and it's doing better.
Exile - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

Sorry 4x4 boulder problems is what I was talking about. interesting stuff thanks
Exile - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

I've only used progressive building up of volume, including rest weeks, hen training for aerobic training for long cycling / running events - not for climbing. As I now have the ability to climb a lot more if I wish, (access 24x7 to a bouldering wall,) I was just wondering how people structure higher volumes of non aerobic training.

So what you're saying is basically your body can manage volume, you make gains in the things you want to make gains in, (be it climbing or biking or weights,) at an acceptable rate, so you've carried on doing what you do?
Exile - on 17 Jan 2013
In reply to AJM:

So 10 goes on a longer bouldering problem, when you start to get it every time, or nearly every time make the problem harder?
pork pie girl - on 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Exile: i think that's what i'm saying yes
Ally Smith on 18 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

I took a similar course of action to you with finger and elbow injuries last year; tape-up-and-carry-on.

A month off from climbing whilst touring around Australia sorted out the finger completely and i've no need to tape that anymore, but the elbows didn't respond in the same way.

My elbows do however respond to some proper re-hab eccentric exercises and stretching and these now form part of my rest day activities.
Ally Smith on 18 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

On a sub-note; has anyone got any experience of training pinch strength? Specifically for tufa strength.

I can happily lift 2x10kg plates by pinching them together and don't have access to larger so that won't work.

Has anyone tried the method in this article?
AJM - on 18 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:

I had a piece of wood, just a offcut of 4 inch by 2 inch cross section timber that I drilled a hole through and put some cord through to hang dumbbells off. Might be smoother than the weights themselves so make you work harder...?

Exile - basically yes, although the rest period is important too.
Exile - on 18 Jan 2013
In reply to pork pie girl & AJM: Thanks very much both.
pork pie girl - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to ally smith:
find stretching my biceps help quite a bit with the elbow injury

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