/ UKC Fit Club 308

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grubes - on 10 Feb 2013
UKC Fit Club is not a substitute for the training diary but to use with ( or without ) it as a motivational tool for all.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles here:

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity, noting goals, successes and failures and to swap ideas.

Anyone interested in starting is very welcome but you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits to help achieve your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

Link to last week's (307) thread:

Deacondeacon - congrats on the 7a
Mr Crowdrey - nice set of goals all the best doing them
Pork Pie Girl - well done on the laps on 7th aardvark must be ready to lead it now?
Joughton - where did you get on in the comp?
biscuit - did you get your 7b?
kevster - well done on the 7a+ onsight
Eagle River - make it to malham yesterday?
Maria85 - Well done on the VS always good to get first route of the year in.
Si dH - well done on the stall and the fin
AJM - Well done on the 7A at the roaches. Thanks for offering to take over
sankey - enjoy turkey
Ian Bell - well done on the 7a+
Exile - did you try a 4x4?
Mattrm - well done for keeping the diet up
Leon - good effort on the training keep it up and the results will come.
IainRUK - well done on the race win
Ally Smith - hope your feeling better
Daniel Heath - awesome week
Ali - you may not of got your goals but at least you got out. Take the positives
seankenny - Did you get you v5/6 project done?
Jimmykay - happy birthday for last week
annak - did you get a place in the half marathon?
Nomics4sale - Well done on the E4 / E5
Luke Owens - did you get back on the 7b?
Mr Chewy - hows the knee hope its okay
jamming dodger - did you get in your rides and avoid the crisps
NMN - nice mileage
DoctorU - did you get back on the 6b any luck?
kylieo - well done on the 6c+
allybee - well done on the orange circuit
Jamming Dodger on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Not being able to drive is definitely having one plus; more enforced riding.
Monday: Nothing
Tuesday: 28 miles bike, 60 man press-ups, 40 girlie press-ups, 100 bicycle crunches.
Wednesday: 28 miles bike
Thursday: 28 miles bike
Friday: 28 miles bike
Saturday: Sleeping mainly
Sunday: 6.7 mile run and 100 crunches

Aim for next week: 3 x 28 mile commutes, 1 climbing session and 3 x 100 press ups/crunches sessions. Maybe a run at the weekend.
Overall aim right now: Beat you to 7a. You know who you are...
Jamming Dodger on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Oh yes, also lost another pound this week. 11 to go before I reach my "optimum climbing weight" (bike hill climbing, that is).
Do twiglets count as crisps? No, I failed on that goal. Shame on me. Ah well!
JayK - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Had another nightmare on Friday! Stubbed my toe playing football and it's ballooned in size! Toe nail is completely wrecked. Could barely get an approach shoe on yesterday. It's become a little less painful today. Fingers crossed it heels in time for font next week!!!

M-Lead climbing at Creation up 7b+
T-Bouldering up to v7 at BC.
T-Bouldering up to v6 at BBC lots of mileage.
F-11 a side football.
S-15k Walk.
biscuit - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

No i didn't but thanks for asking ;0)

Not a bad week spoiled by myself getting trolleyed on Friday night and missing climbing due to hangover. Really angry with myself as I missed last week too- though that wasn't self inflicted illness last time. It's now been 3 weeks since I climbed :0(

M – Weighted pull ups – bumped the weight up/reduced assistance again on most things
Foot on campussing – 3 sets of 2 min on 5 min off. Need to reduce rest now.Will try 4m30s next time.

T – Swim – finally. Did what I should have done but after 40m driving to get there it felt a bit stupid to only swim for 15 mins. Carried on and did 1000m in just over half an hour. Could have done more but stopped in case I made myself really sore the next day. Pleased with that after years and years of no swimming.
Complexes – 2 sets
YLWT's 1 kg 2 sets.

W – Repeaters – 2 sets. Again upped weights/reduced assistance. Started to flag a bit in 2nd half of 2nd set.

Supposed to do bike and run too but went to physio. I have to thank my wife for making me go ( she made the appt as my hip meant I was finding it hard to sleep at night and was keeping her awake too ). I was thinking it might be the start of arthritis in the hip due to my knee but turns out it's hip bursitis and some ITBS. So no running for a while and lots of stretching. Feels better already but I was too sore after being pummelled by physio to do anything. Running is my strong point so no worries for the Tri there and my hips feels better already.

T – Bouldering at El Torcalito. Too busy and spent more time socialising than climbing. Got involved in some hard problems with my friends and started to remember how hard you can try when you are bouldering with others encouraging you ( and not wanting to be the weak English guy ). I felt strong though.

F – 45m bike ride. Hard. So hilly round here and was very windy. My old clunker bike ( not straight front wheel, can only use middle ring on front and it's a hybrid bike ) is making it harder but I am viewing it as extra training.Borrowing a bike in the UK for the actual race.
Tried to keep up with 21yr olds on a night out. Big mistake.

S – Hungover. Watched rugby.

S – Going to do weighted pull ups and PE on board again tonight.
May go out on bike for 40m later.

At least i've got some decent climbing coming up. Shark is coming over and I have got some days set aside to climb with him for 4-6 days from the 14th.

I need 7b in a day at least 2ce I think and am going to get on a 7c and see what happens.
seankenny - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks once again Monsieur Grubes.

M: Nothing
T: WW routes. 5+, 6a+, 6a, 6b, 7a onsight, 7b (all moves bar one), 6c (1 fall, got right back on and completed it).
W: Nothing.
T: WW bouldering. Warmed up then V5/6 project. Got to the very last move, which is fairly straightforward, but fluffed it.
F: Nothing
S: Nothing
S: Nothing

A quiet but good week. I got my first 7a onsight at the wall, which I was obviously pleased with, especially since I've done no stamina/endurance training for months. Chuffed to get nearly all the moves in the 7b after doing that. The last hard move should go if I'm fresher.

Got to within a whisker of doing my hard boulder project too, which felt good, despite not actually completing it.

Fingers felt a bit sore after that so have spent the rest of the week resting up.
Keendan - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Fairly average week here.

T-Tried to Train but still very weak from trip, so useless session.
Military fitness test:
1.5 mile in 8:04 (5:23 mile pace). My best run ever. Very happy with this.
72 press ups
77 sit ups

That gave me maximum points in the fitness test, which I haven't done since I was 18. It's good to know I still have it.

F-Campussing, close arm press ups
S-Military ex, some stretcher running, but not as physical as I "hoped"
Tried to climb today but too tired from exercise.

Had a poor couple of weeks on the diet, so back on it now and looking to the Tri Service Bouldering Final on Saturday.

Kevster - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to seankenny:

A slim week for me, knee is sore and I'm thinking maybe a physio would be intellegent. It doesn't stop me doing much, just isn't right.

Climbed indoors twice, rested since Tues.

This week, I'll probably climb a bit, try to finger board more than routes.
See how the knee goes, might get outside at the weekend.

Cheers, Kev.
leon on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:
STG: Stick to the training plan.
LTG(2013): Redpoint sport 7b, 1 e3, 1 e2 that is high in the grade.
VLTG(2015?): Classic e5 (Positron?, Right Wall?)

Falls: 0(94)
Fat %: 12
Focus: Local Endurance(3/4)
Key weaknesses: Spotting sequences. Repertoire of moves. FoF.

Mon: Arc(30 mins).
Tue: Arc(30 mins). 4x4(V3,V3,V3,V2). Repeaters.
Wed: Rest.
Thu: Core.
Fri: Nothing.
Sat: Nothing.
Sun: Nothing.

Thanks. Fitness is still returning. Tuesday's session went really well. Feel ready to make the ARC cirtcuit harder, completed all 16 problems on the 4x4 & then had a pb for this year on the fingerboard (well happy with that considering it was after a grueling 4x4 set). Skin has toughened up, upto now it has been the limiting factor on session duration.

Mixture of illness, work & feeling like I might get injured has meant I missed my weekly training plan by miles. I'll try for the same training plan again this week.

Plan for next week:
4*ARC sessions(mon, tue, fri, sat, sun).
1 * volume bouldering(fri).
2*4x4 session(tue, sun).
3*fingerboard(tue, sun).
2*core(mon, sat).
mattrm - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks Grubes.

Continuous - Shoulder / knee rehab / ankle strengthening
1 - Lose 1/2 stone (1lbs gain)
2 - Improve finger strength (no progress)
3 - Improve footwork (two sessions - footwork focused)
STG - Climb 6b (or v3) @ wall, 12st 4lbs
MTG - Climb 6c (or v4) @ wall, 12st 2lbs
LTG - Climb 7a & E1, 12st
VLTG - Climb 8a & E5, maintain weight - 10st 7lbs
Aspirational - Climb E5/6, Scottish Winter VI, WI5, Redpoint 8a, stay injury free & maintain 11st

Weight - 12st 7lbs (1lbs gain)

M - Rest
T - 8k run 'effort' session
W - 1hr bouldering
T - Rest
F - 6k run
S - Rest
S - 1 hour bouldering

Good week climbing and running wise. No major improvements, just steady load. Had a coaching session with Rebecca Williams of today, which was very good. Basically my lower core is really poor, which leads on to me struggling on steeper ground or even on less steep ground, as it doesn't help my footwork. I learnt a lot from it. Got a bunch of exercises to do and a load of drills to try. Well worth it. Diet didn't go well. But there we go.
Si dH - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:
Thanks Grubes.

STG (this winter through to March): tick at least 10 new Ft 7s, including at least one Ft 7b, before Font [so far: 5 Ft 7a, 1 Ft 7a+]

MTG: tick at least 5 Ft 7as in Font in March

LTG (March-Dec 2013):
- aim to onsight 10 E3s and 1 E4 in 2013. I've also updated my wishlist to reflect some of the routes I want to do if I get the opportunity.

Weekly training plan up to March involves:
- 2 wall sessions, focusing on bouldering with occasional ancap
- 3 fingerboard sessions
- 1 outside day
- 1 rest day
(minus a wall or fingerboard session when I manage two outside days)

This week:

M: Short bouldering session at Alter Rock. Only there for about an hour, managed to get quite a pump on though doing some traverses.
T: Nothing
W: Bouldering at Alter Rock - new problem set. Did all but 3 of them I think. Felt quite a decent session, although a lot of the harder problems were fingery/technical on less steep sections of wall this week, so I didnt pull too hard, but my finger tips got a good work-out.
T: Nothing
F: Nothing
S: Bouldering at Climbing Station. Did every problem but two in the red/black circuit (v3-4). Not really feeling particularly psyched, didn't try anything harder but got some good mileage in.
S: No specific training but have done a lot of press-ups/sit-ups/leg-raises throughout the day, and 90 minutes skiing at Tamworth (which since Im shit is quite good exercise on the legs!)

Overall not a great week really - I've been really lax on the fingerboard (read not been on it) and have felt quite lethargic all week. MY wife has been quite ill and I think maybe the body has half been fighting that off, so far Ive not got it properly anyway. Also fed up with the weather, which barring a miracle means there's no chance of me achieving my STG now, but I've made some good progress towards it anyway. Hopefully it'll be better the next two weekends and I'll get some final climbing in before ski trip and Font!
mrchewy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Ta grubes - knee is okay, a bit sore still. Saw the physio again and it's so loose that I will need to wear a brace in future in the mountains or else the cartilage might just pop out and lock the knee. The bigger problem is no more drop knees! Well, with the left knee.

Mon - 3 sets of 4 finger repeaters (7+3sec)in the bigger hold on the BM2000
and some pullups etc. 60 pressups over 4 sets.
Tue - Rest arms.
Wed - Physio confirmed tear in knee. 15 min boulder room warm up, then 6 sets of 4 repeaters for the first time. Peeled off on the last 7 sec. Warm down in boulder room.
Thu - Boulder room, short session rainbowing around on small holds on the slight overhanging panel to protect knee. Pressups 3 x 20. One legged squats but gently on left knee.
Fri - Rest tired fingers.
Sat - Tore middle and ring finger pulleys on right hand Peeled off due to not weighting foothold with bad knee leg and caught myself from falling, fingers were in a small pocket. Gutted. Was really happy with finger strength till then.
Sun - Gonna do pressups etc ina bit as just finished work.

Massive confidence boost this week - I may have injured two fingers but I'd have not held that slip even three weeks ago. The knee injury means I've had to get my arms and fingers stronger and I'm amazed at the little holds I can use now after such a small amount of specific training. My locking off strength is way better too.
My first full set of repeaters, the rests were 5 min except for the one between the 4th and 5th set - 15 minutes there as my arms were had it. Fingers felt fine and it's always arm strength that gets me first.
When I slipped, I hadn't weighted my left foot properly because of the knee and it just slipped off. Despite hurting the fingers, really chuffed I held it and really looking forward to trying to pushing grades in a couple of months when I'm used to the looseness in the knee.

It's been a crap start to the year injury wise but I now know I can actually make some great gains shortly. Roll on spring!
NMN - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks Grubes.

Running goals:
Snowdon Race - 1h 35m.
Edale Skyline - 4h.
Ben Nevis Race - 2h 20m.
Wasdale - get round.

Get out climbing again & regularly onsighting VS / HS.
Push trad grade.
Lead a tough E1.

M - 5.02m road run, 99ft.
M - Indoor routes.

T - 5.00m road run, 62ft.

W – 7.03m road run, 91ft.
W – Indoor bouldering.

T – 5.02m road run, 63ft.

F – 5.02m road run, 63ft.
F – Indoor routes.

S - 8.28m trail run, 1,438ft.

S - 5.04m road run, 63ft.
biscuit - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to mrchewy:

Bloody hell !

Loving your positive attitude but i do feel sorry for you.

Just get strong enough that you don't need to drop knee anymore.
AJM - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

I was just one of many - we need to get a Rota of who is doing which weeks really. It was just March basically? I'm happy to kickstart with the 2/3. Anyone else?

Quiet week climbing wise. Good fingerboard session Monday though I can't remember details. Good wall session Tuesday, nailed a hard problem on the woodie (if last time I did a 6c this was prob either 6C or maybe +) and finally after many many goes nailed one of the two hardest greens. Bit of a fight, weird slopey pinchey stuff which I eventually solved with a very deep drop knee, pleased to have spotted that and it feels like one of my biggest indoor fights on a prob.

Then nothing, some packing and stuff plus a train-faff-induced fail on Thursday. Then house move this weekend which has been a full body workout and then some, feel absolutely beasted and tomorrow is definitely going to be a rest day!
mrchewy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to AJM: I'll do the 17th March if that's okay?
mrchewy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit: Ha - my first thoughts too! Get strong! And light...

I've got over way worse than this, it's just a matter of reconfiguring what I can manage but I'm gonna see if I can manage to climb in the knee brace, sneaky drop knees like.
Or become better at slabs and rockovers!

Good work on the swim chap - I loathe it or else I'd have done many a tri by now. It always amazes me how easy a roadie feels after using a mountain bike for so long, so using your bike in training can only help.
pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:
s- gym.. int training on bike for just under and hour, core, weight training inc the usual pull ups.. tryimg to do more press ups as part of this workout to help with the elbow injury i have
m- rest
t-int trainig on bike and core then routes at wall... led about 5 routes (6c+ to 7a+.. bottling out and grabbing better holds for clipping off instead of sort body position out..forced myself not to do this on second go on the 7a+.. need more time on routes and falling off to get more comfy)
w- int training on bike at lunch time, 4x4 and 3x3 at wall in the pm
t- uphill cross trainer thingy (less intense on legs in comparison to bike.. wporked at abot 80% for 30 mins only) weights and core .. usual pull ups
f- int training on bike and core .. the sessions on the bike are so intense.. often leave me feeling wiped out and takes me a good 15 mins to calm down before climbing. was going to do 4x4 the 3x3 but ended up doing 4x7 because the problems i was on on wednesday felt easier and too short.. need to suss out some other problems to use for this
s- malham... dry and warm enough for a decemt session there.. 7th aardvark too wet and i felt uninspired to try hard enough on the dry bits higher up.. climbed it three times and couldn't settle into it, 3 times on raindogs after eagle river clipped it up, once on consenting , raindogs climable from the second bolt upwards (bottom bit wet)... really enjoyed it... second go managed to link moves from just under the undercut at the last bolt.. still need to suss out what to do with my feet (when feet are at about third bolt height) from side pulls (left hand low right hand high.. full stretch for me..)to stop me barn dooring (eagle river heel hooked with the left foot but i struggled to get this, but i can press with my toes ok) first moves from second bolt felt powerful where you cross over with right hand and foot on sloping v polsihed mini ramp.. reckon that'll come though once i start using some of the bouldering technique on it.. doing it too static right now..mdidn't climb anyhting clean or lead owt but had a very good day.. small improvements and very happy with getting out on rock for the second weekend in a row..
then... problem is it had agitated my wrist injury.. so more tape on that needed

pm turbo trainer in garage with door up.. lovely cold air blowing :0)

troughed down lots of chicken for tea..

apologies for rambling about raindogs

Eagle River - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Cheers Luke, Got out saturday but it was a day for the very keen/deluded at Malham.

STG: 7c by April 2013
Going to put it out there...... MTG: Raindogs.

Mon: Indoor routes. Pushing on with the new leading ladder routes, kept falling off at the top crux of the 7c. Tried the 8a.

Thurs: Indoor routes. Got pretty far on the 8a, 2/3rds of the way up and have figured out the crux. Keep falling from the same place on the 7c but feel really close to it.

Sat: Malham. Most things wet so after warming up I got on Raindogs to have a play around on the top half. Got properly sucked in, made some links and have since been watching videos of people on it to get some beta. I'm sure some of the moves I could do off the rope from half way up will feel impossible from the ground but nevertheless I'm embarrassingly psyched about it.

Eagle River - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

> apologies for rambling about raindogs

Ha! Snap.
pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl: PS TR a 7b+ at wall on tues night.. fiercely fingery on overhang... felt stronger.. last four top moves not sussed out yet.. feel much stronger on the holds and more precise with my feet... i need to get it led... might as well.. will dog it but the falls will be good for me
pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Eagle River: *scrolls up to read ER's rambling*
AJM - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to mrchewy:

So far then:

3/3 - AJM
10/3 -???
17/3 - mrchewy
24/3 -???
31/3 -???

Grubes - are these the weeks you need?
pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

deluded? (true)

3x down jacket
1x power stretch leggings
1x fleece leggings
1x flask of hot blackcurrant
1x bag of tangfastics

world's your oyster!

it totally sucks you in and i'm more embarrassed than you because i'm not as strong as you

pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl: does any one notice that their wrists feel a bit weak ... seems to be a theme with me... they're very skinny
biscuit - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

Mine used to partly 'pop out' on slopers, especially the left.

SInce fingerboarding it seems to have stopped - and i haven't seen a sloper for months ;0)

A few times i had to let go when bouldering as it felt like my hand was going to detach. Not possible i know but that's how it felt.

Similar thing with you ?

I have very skinny wrists too.

pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit: it sort of twangs but doesn't feel like my hand will fall off.. used to hurt more on pinches... noticed it after repetition when pull hard on side pulls and undercuts yesterday.. right wrist was fine.. i strained my wrist in spain almost two years ago.. has a large lump on it when i flex the tendons.. think it's scarring of the tendon sheath.. never mega painful but definately draws my attention to it when i'm tryimng really hard.. but thought it was fixed.. as it hasn't bothered me for a good few months... i think it's somehting that i will have to pyt up with if i wmat to do the things i'm doesn't hurt afterwards of anything.
Ali - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit & pork pie girl: Yup I have weak wrists too, though interesting to know that fingerboarding has helped... same feeling of feeling like its going to detach. I've got to the stage where if I'm doing moves and its hurting or straining, I usually stop. Taping wrists helps but really don't overdo it - I had lots of problems some years ago with overdoing it...

pork pie girl - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to Ali: i know.. the thin piece of tape .. taped very tightly seems to help.. if i felt like my had was going to fall of i think i'd ease up though... my lump looks like a little bicep
mrchewy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl: I think accepting that there'll always be 'something not quite right that has to be put up with' is just part and parcel when trying to achieve athletically - it's just confirmation that you actually are trying your damnedest, as opposed to going through the motions.
Ali - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Thanks Grubes - I could do the 10th March, though someone may need to remind me as may still be jetlagged...

M - 10min core - actually doing a solid 10mins is really hard!
T - 35min run - felt good
W - nothing
T - Biscuit Factory - uber bad session - total lack of motivation and 'trying', plus I think I'd eaten too much cake during the day...
F - nothing
S - Routes at the Reach - really good session, 15 routes from 5-7a. Managed to onsight a 6c and a 6c+ which equals hardest routes done indoors. Wanted to have a decent go on the 7a, but was more tired than I thought so couldn't actually hang some of the holds to clip. good to remind myself of the moves but suspect it'll be gone by the time I next get there
S - BMF - good hour of running, core work and other bits - no rests!

That's it for a few weeks for me - off to New Zealand on Wednesday for 3 1/2 weeks - so excited!!

Eagle river & pork pie girl - sounding good on Raindogs! :D
Ali - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl: If it makes you feel any better I randomly looked in the mirror the other day and freaked myself out with my pointy out shoulder bones... :-S All part of being a climber?!
mrchewy - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: *Update. Pressups 2 x 25 and 1 x 20. Some core and squats.
grubes - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to AJM:

I am away with work 23rd to 2nd

So I need someone

3/3 AJM
10/3 Ali
17/3 MrChewy
7/4 grubes
Ian Bell - on 10 Feb 2013
Hi all

For me

M – Fingerboard. Managed 3xthe Ft5A sets from Beastmaker apps. First time managed 3. Hard! 100 sit ups, 75 press ups.
T – Went leading but knackered after Beastmaker. A few 6b/6c route with rests. Nothing of note. Sacked it off.
T – bit of everything = nothing good! Some lacklustre bouldering. Did one V3. Skin was a bit sore having not bouldered for ages. 200 sit ups, 100 press ups.
Su – 50 set ups, 50 press ups. Ft5A & Ft5B session (1x7 each).

Slack ish week, was at the parents at the weekend so no climbing. Next week will also be slack ish, going away for the weekend. Just gotta keep it ticking over. Only 6 weeks till Tenerife now. Not going to try eating mega healthy but will try and cut down the cake and loose a little fat before I go.
grubes - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:
STG (Mar 2013):
Possible short half term font trip - Not now had to use a days holiday to get car fixed
More than 1 7 in spain maybe a grade push
MTG (July 2013)
Climb harder than 7a in UK and abroad.
Lead E3 try onsight
LTG (End of 2013):
Top out the chief
Boulder 7A/V6 UK and try get one in Squamish.
Climb Great wall at squamish
Weight loss!

This Weeks Goals:
Lead the wood 7a (Tick) then work the other boulder 7a or the long 7a - fail
2 wall sessions in the week - Tick
Climb on Sunday. Fail

M: Rokt - Brief session (2hours). Tried the circuit board flashed the warm up there and back. Dropped (6b+ish) red on last move on flash attempt after getting lost. Then fell on last move on three further attempts.
Lead Wall - Straight on the wood and did it first attempt on the day. Did some easier routes to end the session
T: Rest
W: Rokt. (4hours+). Did some route testing and took a proper lead fall. Nik ended update the first draw and I was not very far above him. Fun
Circuit board ticked the red and did it a couple of times tried the purple (7a) not really looking at it. Bouldered abit.
Ended with another lead session. exhausted and fitting to stay on climbing easier routes.
T: Rest
F: Rokt 2hours. Poor session boulder tried some of the moves on the purple circuit
S: Rest
S: some Core exercises and push ups

Next Weeks goals:
achieve something
JayK - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

I have been doing fitclub for years. I will finally step up to the mark and take the 24/3. I can already feel the weight of responsibility resting upon my shoulders.
biscuit - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

i'll take 31/3

biscuit - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:
. my lump looks like a little bicep

Maybe it's an extra muscle you have grown ?
maria85 - on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Cheers

Ali: Have a fantastic time in NZ!
JummyKay - ouch!! toes suck hey?!
mrchewy - oh no! Good luck getting everything fixed.

I've had a cold lingering all week, so barely done anything. Finally starting to feel a little better. Feel like this year has been a bit of an epic fail so far, certainly sitting far far off where I'd planned to be at new year.

Last week's goals:

2 x short runs 1 done
1 x long run fail
2 x bike to work fail
Orienteering tick
3 x core, 1 x fingerboard 1 of each
2 x wall (1 roped) 1 done

M: Half hearted core session.
T: Bouldering. Bingley wall. Blue's (V1-2) mostly ok, couldn't touch the greens (V3-4). Seems a really hard set this time, or maybe I was just weak. Fingerboard/feet on campus board after.
W: Orienteering. Did ok but a really confusing course this time.
T: Nothing. Went to the Banff film fest if that counts?!
F: Nothing.
S: 2 1/2 hour mtb, mainly pushing my old crap bike through mud.
S: 20 min run, 4km. Expected this to be 'slow' as went with the boyfriend who's not a runner... he pushed it pretty hard!

Hoping this week will be better. Goals:
2 x bike to work
1 x indoor climb
1 short run
2 x core & fb
Long weekend in Scotland, fingers crossed.

JBO on 10 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Ended up finishing something like 34th out of 80 in the adult male. Not a bad result as there were A LOT of strong climbers there, I kept recognising people from climbing videos...

Mon - nothing
Tue - session on wall at home, did some good problems but wasn't feeling great
Wed - MCC bouldering, feeling much better, and psyched because there's new problems. Warmed up then did the majority bar two of the V4-6 circuit, mostly flashed, and flashed one of the V6-8 problems and worked two others.
Thurs - rest
Fri - rest
Sat - AW Stockport Leading Ladder - rubbish! Did everything to 6b+ then fell of the 6c! It was disgusting, basically had a long features only section, but the features were like match edges... Got that second go, then fell off the 7a, then got that second go (disgusting as well). Then, to further cement my distrust in the grading at AW, I flashed the 7b. Tried the 7c but fell off the high stopper, as mentioned above by ER, but I'll be back on Wednesday to get it second go hopefully.
Sun - rest

It's good to see people psyched for raindogs but I'm starting to think it's not the 8a for me - I think I need something longer and pumpier, but with better rests, as opposed to the sidepully undercutty power-endurance Malham style that I'm really not very good at... Much more tempted by longer routes at the Tor, Kilnsey or Gordale but the conditions there are much worse so maybe I should keep Raindogs as a wet weather option anyway?

Won't be posting next Sunday as I've got a trip to Spain this Friday, goals are to onsight another 7c, maybe more than one as I'm feeling pretty strong at the moment after a full winter of training. Not going to put any redpoint goals up because I think it's unlikely that I'll find anything harder than 7c that I'll be able to do in a day, because I'm so bad a redpointing and don't fancy spending more than a day on one route... also have some trad ambitions as there are some exciting looking E5's at the Echo crags and Sella, some multipitch which look amazing - will report back in a couple of weeks!
Banned User 77 - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

m: am: steady 6 mile recovery run. pm: 6.3 miles on treadmill building up to respectable pace.
t: 8.1 mile trail run. pm: 6 mile with 3 x 1 mile reps at 5:40 pace
w: 21 mile road run @ 6:53 pace
t: 10 mile road run
f: am: 3.5 mile run. full day skiing vermont. pm: 3.5 mile run
s: 4 mile run. full day skiing vermont
s: 3 mile run.. full day skiing vermont.. 6 hr drive back.
Eagle River - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Joughton:

That leading ladder 7a is hilarious. Never 7a in a million years and really cruxy. Took me about 5 goes so well done getting it 2nd go.
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Ali: it's better than a hump on your back... have a brill time in NZ.. where you planning on going ? (been there a couple of times for work and travel)
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit: you might be right .. when i ripped both my quad muscles (separate occassions) they both developed egg like lumps on them... physio couldn't work it out.. but i don't think the wrist actually has any muscle there.. i was hoping it is muscle and i like to imagine it is turning into a bionic wrist that just feels knackered sometimes at the moment
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to mrchewy: what's teh score with getting teh knee sorted? where's the rip? does it mean you're not suppoes to run and that?
kylieo on 11 Feb 2013
Thanks grubes.

STG (by summer):
don’t get injured (possibly heading in the wrong direction, physio this week though)
Redpoint 7a indoors
Climb something in the V4-V6 circuit
Lose ½ stone (still heading in the wrong direction, must fix this)

MTG (during summer):
don’t get injured
Redpoint 7b

M - climbing partner was sick so conditioning and fingerboard. Definitely improving on the fingerboard although still utterly rubbish on the slopers.
T - Bouldering - felt weak today, I couldn't do things I had been able to do last week. No real progress.
W - Double dips - warmup then 6b,6b+,6b+,6c,6c,6c+ each twice. Fell of first 6c second time then second 6c and 6c+ both times. Got straight back on and continued where possible.
T - conditioning
F - rubbish session, warmed up on the bouldering wall but pain in various places meant I didn't do more than that. I did a few easy slab routes, including dropping from the top without the chains clipped. I have no worries about doing this on an overhang but am a little wary on slabs so it was good to do it and remember it's not as bad as I think.
S-S - nothing, too cold and tired to drag myself to the wall.

Lots of inspiring talk of outdoor routes, I wish I lived somewhere nearer decent rock and was less wussy about being cold. I miss rock.
grubes - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit:
Thanks guys

3/3 AJM
10/3 Ali
17/3 MrChewy
24/3 Jimmykay
31/3 biscuit
7/4 grubes

Anyone able to do the 24/2?
If worst comes to worst I could do that once I get on the wifi at the hotel but I will be very jet lagged ... plus it depends what I have to do.
grubes - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:
anyone want to go on a bouldering and trad (plus a bit of sport) trip to squamish?
currently looking for a 4th (or 4th 5th and 6th) person.

Currently 3 off us looking at Vdiffs up to low Egrades (equivalents). Single pitch/multipitch.

Fly out 31st aug until 21st septemeber.
Twigger on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:
> (In reply to grubes)
> Stubbed my toe playing football

You massive punter!
Ally Smith on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:
Mediocre week; lurgy previous week seems to have hit me for six

LTG (End 2013) - Unjustified at Malham

MTG (Spring 2013) - Melanchollie at LPT & be fit for Terredets at Easter.

STG (end Jan 2013) - assessment of progress
- Re-hab finger injury - and now painful wrist to go with it
- back to 90% strength in both. Confidence increasing and starting to throw for holds with righthand
- Lots of elbow eccentrics - Zottman curls proving good combination exercise
- keep doing as preventative
- Sort out shoulder instability - getting a bit rounded shouldered.
- keep doing as preventative
- Yoga and core sessions
- been slack with the yoga and core
- Get back below 75kg
- put on weight with lurgy induced lethargy, but lots of activity this wknd has gotten me back on track.

New STG (end Feb 2013)
- Re-hab finger injury and re-start finger boarding.
- Get back in the cave of justice (Thurs lamplight session planned - anyone keen?)
- Lots of elbow eccentrics - Zottman curls proving good combination exercise
- Back to Brean Down and finish off ticking the crag. 4 new routes and a retro-bolt since i lived in Bristol.
- Get back below 75kg (Currently 76.1kg and 6.7% BF)
- More core
- More an-cap
- More small holds, preferably outside

M - Gym. 7:28 2k row. Curls, presses and eccentrics. Dynamic core.
T - AWL - some good OS efforts up to 7b, but faded very fast
W - Hangar - an-cap boulders. Started failing half way through 2nd set and powered out on last set. No juice for aero-cap.
T - Nowt - felt beasted
F - Nowt - driving South
S - Brean in drizzle. All moves on an 8a in quick order but crux seeped quicker than i could climb lower section. Ran away to TCA and got beasted; could barely do any of the red circuit and schools comp problems were hard to boot. Would be brilliant if there was a circuit board like there's in NW.
S - 2hrs of muddy mtb. Ankle didn't complain too much
Nomics4sale - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks grubes

STG: 7as in Spain next week and 7b indoors before end of March 2013
MTG: 7b in Spain in March 2013
LTG: more E1s and look at E2 Summer 2013

Mon: nowt
tues: crap session at BoulderUK. No new ticks and not much progress.
Wed: nowt
Thurs: routes kendal wall. one go at a 7b which was nails. RP 7a 2nd go. one go at another 7a.
Fri: 13 mile trail run, 1,490m ascent. Followed the langdale fell race route.
Sat: another crap session at boulderuk, only lasted an hour.
Sun: much better session at ingleton, working circuits.

I've got precisely nowhere with my previously stated STG of a V6 at boulderUK. I've not even tried but that's mainly cos I don't think I'd stand a chance. So I'm going to sack off the V6 STG and switch to working the circuits at Ingleton this week as I figure this will be much better training for routes in Spain.

Also not getting anywhere with my other STG of RPing a 7b indoors. I think I've got more a chance with that one so this week I'm going to put in some work on the one I was on at Kendal.

Off to sunny Spain next Monday, woop!
Nomics4sale - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to PPG and Eagle River:

good effort at malham on Saturday! I should have gone, TRing consenting would have been better than the crappy hour I did at boulderUK.

And Raindogs, very exciting! It will be good to follow your progress over Summer. Saturday = money in the bank for you. Guess that means Kilnsey will be on the back burner tho so I am clearly going to have to sort some partners out for it.
Ali - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl: Dunno - my postureis also rather poor so can see myself in 40 years time, hunching over, hobbling down the street....

Flying into Wellington, got a few days there than rest of the time on the south island - Abel Tasman/Golden Bay for a couple of days, then down the West Coast stopped near Pancake rocks and at FJ glacier. Down to Queenstown, then to Te Anau and Milford Sound. Back through Te Anau and down to south coast and the Catlins for a few days. Long drive up to Mt Cook and a day or two around there and Lake Tekapo. Then flying out of Christchurch. So trying to fit rather a lot in but hopefully doable! Doesn't really leave any climbing time, but taking my shoes just in case....

mrchewy - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl: Medial ligament, it's been ripped before there but it's left it a bit looser this time. Grade 1 again, so not operation for that as they tend to operate on full ruptures only.
Gotta pick and choose what I do. Running on nice even surfaces will be fine, anything that risks opening the knee up won't be.
Hill sprints will be fine once the tenderness has gone!
maria85 - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Twigger:
> (In reply to JimmyKay)
> [...]
> You massive punter!

It's better than stubbing your toe getting out the shower and bleeding all over your work place! ;-)
(the feeling hasn't come back yet either...)
Luke Owens - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Cheers Grubes, didn't get back on the 7b when I was there a couple of weeks ago. Top was soaking.

STG - Font 7A and F7b
MTG - Font 7A+ and F7c
LTG - Font 7B+/7C and F8a

Monday - Max Weighted Hangs -
Progressive Set - 7.5kg - 10kg - 13.5kg - 10 sec hangs, 3 min rest between
Main Set - 15kg x 5 - 10 sec hangs 3 mins rest between - Personal Best!
30 Minute consistant core workout
Realised after the session I'd strained my left hand middle finger A2 pulley... worked out this was due to twisting my half crimp grip outwards when trying my hardest to stay on... Bollocks!

Tuesday - Oswestry Wall - Wasn't too optimistic due to pulley strain, felt fine to climb on just a little sore. Repeated a V5/6 and a V6/7 and helped out my girlfriend on loads of V1's, well psyched to see her get up loads of problems when she was convinced she couldn't do, great to see!

Wednesday - 30 minutes core and hip flexor stretching

Thursday - Rest and hip flexor stretching

Friday - Rest and hip flexor stretching

Saturday - Against all odds I was determined to find dry rock despite it pouring down the night before and all of Saturday. Went to Pantymwyn every problem was wet apart from half of Robert Duvall (V6).

Worked the moves and manged to link a lot of it, confident it'll go in good conditions.

Went onto Ruthin Escarpment, the V7 I wanted to try was half dry. Hand to dry holds between every attempt and it was seeping as soon as I pulled on...

Managed to do all the moves so I reckon it's on, really keen to get back on it when it's dry!

Sunday - 30 minutes core and hip flexor stretching.

Finger strain is feeling better every day and have been using ice water for 30 minutes every day since the strain. Confident it'll be OK soon.

Bit of a set back as I'll have to knock the weighted hangs on the head though. Happy I made good gains though.

Going to start a repeater cycle on the fingerboard in a week or so.
biscuit - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to mattrm:

Was scooting around that website last night Matt and found this.

Really speaks to me ( more shouts actually).I've always got really frustrated with the whole periodised training/life getting in the way stuff and have not often hit targets i set.

I like this approach and am going to set some time aside in the next day or 2 to look at it. I'd just started doing something a bit similar where i had moved away from saying " I will climb 7c by Easter " for example and have settled on RP'ing 7b in a day until i am happy i can do that on all types of 7b. Then i will move on to 7b+ and so on.

This should also bring up my on-sighting as i get stronger and fitter and will still try a good level on-sight attempt each day too. But i won't have the pressure of " If i don't get the 7b today then it's been a fail." I've just never responded positively to that kind of pressure.

Also some good comments on the indoor/outdoor thread ( you will have to ignore/complain about the whole 'gay' comments i'm afraid ),21579.0.html

Dave Mac always claims he climbs well because of his amazing technique. Actually he's one of the world's top boulderers (i.e. bloody strong Font 8B+/C ) and is underperforming on routes with comparable climbers.

Lets get strong people !
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Ali: NZ is an awesome place .. packs so much into a relatively small place.. you're going to have an ace time!!
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Luke Owens: you do lots of hip flexor stretching.. is this a problem area for you? (is with me.. mine a tight and i'm rubbish at high steps becaue of it.. also make me walk like john wayne sometimes)
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale: sounds like you're in teh same place with me re new probelms at the place where you boulder.. like you i've used it as an opportunbity to start soem of that 4x4 and 3x3 malarky... quesiton though... haven't climbed ta ingleton for ages.. are the circuits any good? what do they chrage for a bouldering sesison.. a fiver?

good load of ascent on friday

where oyu off to in spain next week.. we're going to calpe... i'm not setting myself any goals until i have an idea about how i feel once i'm out there!

pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale: two days a week (one one daya nd an evening =) at malham will be enough for me.. so will need a project at kilnsey...

you're best following the progress over the next year or two for me on raindogs!! (eagle will get it this summer) oyu're right about money in the bank though.. that's how it feels...

i think a good day winter's day of top roping somewhere challenging is loads more constructive in comparison to getting ye bum kicked indoor bouldering... that sort of thing puts me in a terrible mood
Luke Owens - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

Yeah, it's a big problem. My hips are very tight, i'm finding drop knees and certain high steps pretty difficult. I work at a desk so it's probably the sitting most of the day that's doing it...
griffithsa - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: I'm going to jump in on this, looks like a great idea!

Monday: Session on the woody at the hangar, ticked off a project and felt great until I got home when my shoulder started to throb. Figured I just strained it a little bit.

Tuesday: Rest, tried some press-ups to see if it was imbalance that was hurting my shoulder

Wednesday: managed a few warm ups at the hangar and sacked it off after feeling too sore.

Thursday: More push-ups to combat the shoulder pain, seems to help so I think I'll carry it on.

Friday: Comp at the hangar, eye opening! Didn't realise how weak I was! got 201 points overall but dropped a hell of a lot of them on overhanging problems. Definitely need to sort out my power and core strength.

Saturday: Tried in vain to get out, hopeful that Pantymwyn would be fairly dry but it was absolutely sopping. Escaped instead to the wall in Wrexham. Managed to tick off all but 3 of the problems and then had a lot of fun creating my own eliminates. Finished with a few repeats of a circuit.

Sunday: Enforced rest due to a horrendous hangover.

Nomics4sale - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

When are you going to calpe? I'm going to Catalunya next week and again in march. Really excited at the prospect of a weeks climbing in the sun. It's been a long while...

Well raindogs as a long term project is no bad thing and from what I've read of your attitude to training you have the motivation to get it done quickly. You'll surprise yourself I bet with how quickly you get it done.

Kilnsey, I had a look at some of the routes in the guidebook and UKC and have a vague idea of ones to go at. Need to go stand at the bottom and have a look. In a few weeks time hopefully.

Don't know about everyone else but i'm beginning to feel optimistic about the prospect of lots of climbing outdoors in a few weeks.
Luke Owens - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to griffithsa:

What did you think of the problems upstairs at the Wrexham wall? They were set by myself and my mate Leon.
annak on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes: Yes I did! It's the Royal Parks Half in October, so I have ages to train... so long in fact that I think I need to plan a 10km or two to keep my momentum up.

M: cycle 10 miles

Tu: cycle 10 miles, bouldering @ Biscuit Factory

W: run 3.5 miles / 27:32 - new PB! First time EVER under 8 min mile

Th: cycle 6 miles, bouldering @ Biscuit Factory - only 5 tigers left now (but that's all the hard ones)

F: rest day

Sa: Hiking in the Lake District - Patterdale to Grasmere via St Sunday Crag. Had planned to do Pinnacle Ridge but the weather was too gnarly.

Su More hiking - shorter route around Grasmere.
griffithsa - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Luke Owens:
I thought they were good! I like that whole set-up, feels really chilled. And it's really easy to create your own masterpieces! Have to say the last problem, the blue one that traverses across and up, felt absolutely nails!
pork pie girl - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale: i'm going to calpe... i'm posting whilst at work and multi tasking!! yeah i'm excited too

it would be fantastic if i got raindogs done in less than 26 years!!

yep.. feel optimistic too about getting out on the rock on a regular basis... if the last two weekends are anything to go by it's worth getting out and at least trying.
Luke Owens - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to griffithsa:

Glad you enjoyed them!

Ah! My test piece! It took me a whole afternoon to create and climb that one! Really powerful shoulder moves, what grade did you feel it was? I had no idea what to give it. Was sheet with the problems marked on it there?
griffithsa - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Luke Owens:

I think you gave it v8, I reckon that felt about right, I was wasted by the time I gave it any decent goes though, the moves going past that horrendous sloping crimp thing nearly destroyed me!
mattrm - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit:
> (In reply to mattrm)
> Was scooting around that website last night Matt and found this.
> Really speaks to me ( more shouts actually).I've always got really frustrated with the whole periodised training/life getting in the way stuff and have not often hit targets i set.

Yeah, it's a really good article. I'd not seen it to be honest. I thought she was really good. Rebecca is also a psychologist, so if you're having 'head/tactics' problems, then I'd imagine she's the person to talk to. However her technique training was also very good. Based on what she said at the session and the stuff in that article, I think I'm going to make a complete change in my goal setting next week.

I think in other sports that kind of thing is quite common, cause it's easier to do. I know a mate who's a triathlete and he sets out a training plan, do A, do B, do X etc. Then after a month he does a set series of runs/swims/rides and sees if he's faster. It's easy for him to do and then easy for him to measure. I find it hard to tell if I'm doing technique right and then it's hard to measure if all the technique stuff is working.

I guess that's why many climbers enjoy the strength training, it's easy to measure progress.

Luke - PPG - Interesting that you should mention hip flexibility. When I was having my coaching the other day I learnt that the main physical difference between 'high grade' climbers and 'elite' climbers is hip flexibility, with the 'elites' having much better flexibility.
Luke Owens - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to griffithsa:

V8?! Jesus... Don't remember giving it that!

I only boulder V6 at a push...I did create that problem to play to my strengths though.

Interesting to hear your take on the grade, that's really give me some food for thought! Cheers!

In Reply to Mattrm:

Flexibility is a definite weakness for me personally. I'm hoping once I unlock my hips and loosen up, some moves will feel a little easier. I'm not expecting miricles though... If I do start jumping up grades i'll let you all know!
AJM - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to mattrm:

> Luke - PPG - Interesting that you should mention hip flexibility. When I was having my coaching the other day I learnt that the main physical difference between 'high grade' climbers and 'elite' climbers is hip flexibility, with the 'elites' having much better flexibility.

Really!?!? Whilst it's important (for me the crux of right hand man might prove to be getting my foot high) I find it hard to believe the main difference between Sharma/Ondra and the many folk pushing towards 9a is their flexibility... Did she have any evidence for it, because if so I'll make it a far higher priority! ;)
mattrm - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to AJM:
> (In reply to mattrm)
> [...]
> Really!?!? Whilst it's important (for me the crux of right hand man might prove to be getting my foot high) I find it hard to believe the main difference between Sharma/Ondra and the many folk pushing towards 9a is their flexibility... Did she have any evidence for it, because if so I'll make it a far higher priority! ;)

I really don't know. She mentioned it mid session and I was concentrating on other things. She did say that there were other differences as well. I doubt it's that simple and I'd imagine she'd give a more naunced answer normally, it was probably just something to impress on me that I need to be a lot more flexible.

biscuit - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to mattrm:

Don't forget the difference between active and passive flexibility. One is where you can get your limbs into position with help ( i.e. the splits using you body weight to lower down ) and the other is can you lift your foot up to that high step on its own using muscle power ?

I'm quite poor at that and can see it being quite an important difference.
grubes - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit:
Forget your flexibility. Sort out your climbing next week now sharks not heading to chorro.
Nik needs a belayer!! ;o)
Quiddity - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to mattrm & biscuit:

Personally I think Dr. Williams overstates the case against outcome goals. This has come up before - see also here and the replies to her post:

Yes, you frequently see people get demotivated by only setting outcome goals that are out of their control and then not achieving them, but equally, only setting process goals can lead people to get equally demotivated, stuck in endless cycles of setting and completing training goals but never actually going out and achieving anything concrete because there are always reasons why they can't.

Outcome and process goals serve different functions. Yes, process goals are really important as they tell you how you are going to achieve something, but outcome goals tell you where you're trying to get to and are important as well.

While 'climb 7a' IS an outcome goal, it is fundamentally different to outcome goals like 'win the boulder comp' as the former is mostly within your own control, while the latter is to a large extent out of your own control. (the being either internal or external, if you want psychologist speak)

> A number of factors will impinge on these goals – suddenly an elite climber moves into your area and starts whizzing up the aggregate ladder; whenever you try to climb a F7a its too reachy/ too hot/ you’re tired; you keep dieting but those pounds just aren’t falling off; or its raining / you’re stiff and hungry/ a bee stings you halfway up/ a hold snaps.

Two things. Firstly, when it comes to 'climb 7a', if you fall off you can try it again. As long as you don't specify specific routes, this works for onsight goals too - indeed any sort of game where you get basically an infinite number of goes and you only need to succeed once.

Secondly, the factors she suggests for failing to climb 7a are excuses rather than factors, and if you think tactically and combine it with trying again after an initial failure, they *are* mostly within your control.

too hot - get up earlier, wait until its not in the sun, try it in february not july etc.
you're tired - come back rested. have a nap through the hottest part of the day. maybe your warm up was too intense. maybe it wasn't intense enough, etc.
too reachy - find a less reachy route, use smaller intermediate holds, just climb up to them, etc.
stung by a bee - MTFU we're rock climbing now.
etc. etc. etc.

Get into the habit of thinking tactically and you can get these factors working *for* you not against you. Good tactical climbers know that there is a window between 3pm when the sun comes off the crag and 4pm when it greases up, and have gone up, put the clips in, and brushed & chalked the holds at 2pm so they can set off on redpoint 1 at 3.05 (with an option of redpoint 2 at 3.55). They have got the sequence wired, their warm up has been perfectly executed, they are fresh after a rest day, etc.

Yes, sometimes thinking tactically might involve coming back at a different time, but that is why we set *goals* to constantly remind ourselves of what we want to achieve. My point is that we get into the habit of thinking tactically *because* in the outside environment, there *are* a lot of external factors that might affect performance, because we have to hold ourselves to account for failing to achieve outcome goals, we think about ways of taking responsibility for them.

> What happens when you fail on successive occasions to reach your outcome based goal? You feel disappointed, despondent even, and before you know it, your motivation begins to slip.

Perhaps, but I prefer Dave Mac's view - redefine what failure means. Temporary failure is a necessary, and inevitable, initial phase of any worthwhile endeavour. Failure is the necessary feedback that tells you that your current approach isn't working. Yes, repeated failure is demotivating especially if it leads to a feeling that your goals are unachievable, and here the trick is to set more realistic intermediate goals *in conjunction with* process goals that are formulated to get you to your target. If you are continually trying and failing to achieve your short term goals, then it's a sign that your goals are unrealistic, not that you shouldn't be setting goals at all.

My beef with the main thrust of that blog post is that without *any* outcome goals (not even implicit ones that most of us keep in our heads even if we don't write them down), we have no idea of what it is we want to achieve, we just drift along with no idea whether or not something is working. A problem with process goals is they don't give us intrinsic feedback - outcome goals tell you when your training plan is working because you start achieving them. When you don't achieve them, it's a sign you need to revise the training plan. I'm sure it's possible to drift along ticking every process goal you set but still fail to improve at climbing because your training plan is wrong, but the worst bit is that without any objective measures of the thing you want to get better at (ie. actually climbing) you don't *know* it's wrong.

And lets face it, who ever got inspired by process goals like 'lead session 2 times this week' - outcome goals tap into the reasons we want to climb harder in the first place - climb El Cap, redpoint Raindogs, onsight Right Wall, climb the soaring crag classic you walked under your first day of climbing and thought 'never in a million years'.

outcome goals & process goals - both important. Sorry for the rant.
biscuit - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to AJM:
> (In reply to mattrm)
> [...]
> Really!?!? Whilst it's important (for me the crux of right hand man might prove to be getting my foot high) I find it hard to believe the main difference between Sharma/Ondra and the many folk pushing towards 9a is their flexibility... Did she have any evidence for it, because if so I'll make it a far higher priority! ;)

I know things go in phases and we're all into ancap etc at the moment. HOWEVER looking at enecdotal evidence every decent climber i know ( trad or sport ) is strong. My mate is trying to crack 8b+ this season. He came over having been tradding but predominantly bouldering for the last 6 mths. Took about 3 weeks to get his stamina up and then started to crush.

Dan off of here shot up the trad grades after a concerted period of strength training.

My mate Luis that i climb with i bouldered with for the first time the other day. He's well strong.

Ste Mc + Dave Mac both proclaim to be weak, but it's all relative. Hubble is not for the weak and Dave Mac has bouldered 8C.

I have a long list of people back home i used to trad with ( the ones i am thinking of are E5 + on-sighters ) and when i used to go to the wall with them they were STRONG.

They had skill, mental strength, fitness, tactics etc as well of course depending on what they preferred but the one thing ( in my opinion ) that all good climbers have in common is being STRONG

And yes it's more measurable so more fun too ;0)

BTW i fully realise in 6 mth time i may be moaning about why i can't climb route x because i am not fit enough.
pork pie girl - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to mattrm: re hip flexibility... i'me really flexible in the hips with everything apart from bringing my knee up high to my chest... but it won't hold me bakc too much as i'm not going to be a high grade or an elite climber!!!
AJM - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to biscuit:

Very true. I remember Alex telling me that, whilst fitness determined how fast you tick, the thing which determined what route grade people at Santa Linya were projecting was raw strength.

Mind you, the other people who are all strong are those who chronically underachieve on routes. There was a post I think from Tom R on the other channel about the argument that climbing basically isn't am aerobic sport, pointing out that V8 power can get you up either 8a or 8b+ depending on how well and for how long you can deliver it.

You have to remember when looking at good climbers and seeing that they are all strong that a lot of them will have worked to ensure that their other weaknesses are minimised already.
AllyBee on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Aargh, late again...

This week's been a bit rubbish, mainly because we moved house this weekend. I also missed a session on Thursday due to work overrunning and missing my train, which was annoying because I was feeling really psyched for it. I need to stop doing that...

M: Nothing
T: Session at Redpoint. Only toproped because a) I hadn't brought a lead rope and b) it was the first time climbing with a new partner and I didn't want to put her off by being terrified at her...
W: Nothing
Th: Nothing, despite intending to do a wall session
F: Nothing - house packing
S: Nothing - house moving (although I did carry a lot of boxes!)
S: Did some core exercises in the evening - 2 x 20 elbow-to-knee things, 2 x 10 leg raises, 20 slow bicycles
biscuit - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to AJM:

That's why i begrudgingly admitted they also had skill, mental strength and fitness as well ;0)

Mina isn't re-knowned for her fitness but Mecca was her style and using her strength and power she equalled the best ever grade for a UK female.

Looks like i need to get up to V8. As i've only ever done one V7 about 2 yrs ago and nothing since i need to get my finger out.
mrchewy - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to Quiddity: I enjoyed the rant, quite informative and a decent plateful of food for thought.

Speaking personally, I learn far more during a day of failure than I do when it all goes well. Having said that, that seems to only hold true if one is honest about the reasons for failure and that would have to include any failings of your own.
Certainly, my logbook on here has huge holes in it - the days that I remember with clarity from the last couple of years are hardly on there. Abbing off a VDiff in the Lakes was a surprise but an education too and I'd have never put that in STG, MTG or LTG lists! Same with Tower Ridge last winter, I'd put it down as a success but we didn't make the top and had to retreat. Other's might say that was a failure but not to me - I'm a better climber for it and that in turn will help on the road to my long term goals. Same on the Eiger this summer, I didn't make the top but I soloed half way up before a storm hit. Success, not failure to me.

Biscuit is right about top guys being strong, even if they can't do one armed pullups. I said to my mate Joe last year 'you can only climb as hard as you can boulder' and he was in full agreement - he can trad climb french8b+, so obviously has a good head but his boulder grade is not so huge.
JBO on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to AJM: I'd agree with what Alex said, if you have amazing endurance but no strenghth, you can't really apply that endurance to any useful means, if that makes sense.

A month or two ago I realised that my pure power and strength were starting to hold me back, so I spent the time inbetween then and now almost exclusively bouldering or working hard routes (the 8a) indoors. Since then I've noticed only slight losses in my stamina but massive gains in strength, which have added up to overall improve my indoor grade - as you can see in last weeks report.

Obviously I haven't had a chance to apply this to real rock yet, but I'm heading out for a week in Spain next week. Normally I'd be worried having done little stamina work before a trip on continental limestone, but I've realised that the base level of stamina I have at the moment, and have always had without to much training (my physique has always lent itself to endurance) is more than adequate for the grades I'm going to be trying - onsighting between 7b-c - because I rarely fall off simply because I'm too pumped to make another move. It's always because I'm not strong enough to do that move. I'll never be particularly strong, or a very good boulderer for that matter, simply because my body type isn't suited to it, but I can, with a lot of hard work, get strong enough to match my level of endurance if haven't trained endurance in while.

To summarise my rambling, I think what is most important for climbing routes (not boulders...) is to have an equal measure of both strength and endurance, so that neither is being held back by the other. This way you can avoid:
- falling off a really hard move when you aren't even pumped yet, because you weren't strong enough
- falling off a really easy move that you would have pissed up when fresh, but your endurance wasn't up to scratch

Hope this is helpful in anyway to anyone, although it may just be vague and generic ramblings... works for me though!
JBO on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to Eagle River: Glad to hear you found it outrageous as well! Cheers, the sequence I came up with was pretty spontaneous, but hideous, and ended up with me bridging with my right foot higher that my right hand - very painful! Impressed that you got out on Saturday though, and good to see you getting drawn in to Raindogs.
useful on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Hi grubes, thanks for asking about the 6b, but I didn't get back on that wall until this week (update on Sunday!)

This Week (WC 4/2/2013):
M: weights circuits, 10 reps, 7kg (getting harder, but good)
T: 30' swim, quite medium HR (around 160bpm)
W: Liverpool Awesome Walls: 10 routes - All lead unless specified:
5 TR, 4 TR, 6a, 5, 6a, long overhanging sloper 6a+ (fail), 6a, 5+, 6a+ , 6a

Th: Nothing
F: - Nothing
Sa: Big mountain scramble: did Bastow Buttress on Tryfan: Grade II scramble mostly, but with some snow around and a couple of VDiff parts (according to leading MIA mate).
Su: 12 routes at the Beacon, Caernarfon:
4a TR, 4c TR, 5a TR, 5c TR, 5cL, 5aL, 5cL, big, long overhanging 6a L (failed 2 clips from top), 6a+ L (fail), 5b TR, 5c TR, 6a+TR (failed on penultimate)

So: quite a tired week, but putting in the miles. Felt the benefit this week (update on Sunday)

The Beastmaker 1000 awaits me at my company's office (200 miles away) - can't wait until Friday to pick it up!

Goal Updates:
* Keep increasing weights: next week, repeat the 10x7kg session, or maybe do a body-weight circuit instead of free-weights.
* Keep attacking those 6bs! - I'm not scared of them any more, anyway...
* Keep putting in the miles - I'm finding easy/hard/easy/hard routes profile gives a better feel than "ramp up until pumped".
* Aim for 10 routes every session min, more if possible.

* Weight loss: No scales this week so no update
* at least 1 6b looking likely to crumble sooner than expected! TR definitely, lead a little later.
* Booked on my climbing club's trip to Kalymnos in April: very excited to be spending a week with friends and 7yo daughter in what looks like an amazing outdoor venue!

* Still trad... still waiting for the weather!
useful on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to DoctorU:
Oh, and one more STG: Update UKC Fit Club on a Sunday for once! *blush*
JayK - on 12 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Just thought I'd keep people up to date with my fingerboard progress. My pocket strength has been relatively pathetic so I thought I'd isolate training finger strength on the board. As per usual I started a couple of months ago still feeling weak and vulnerable on front and back 2 in isolation. Was on the fingerboard this evening and felt strong on front 2 and back 2 (used small pockets on BM2k and back 2 pocks for back 2) and pulled out a set of repeaters, which for the first time actually felt comfortable. Might move up to the slopey pockets next time.

My drag position ( as I've mentioned recently ) is also becoming a lot stronger.

I'm aware none of this relates to real rock (haven't touched the stuff since Rodellar) and it's indoor season (stronger than normal) but it's all interesting signs which I've never really had using a fingerboard before. I've always been a little scared of injuring myself on the pockets of a BM/FB. Now I'm just keen to get my fingers really strong.

I bet I will barely be able to climb anything in Font next week. It'll be my own fault for being too climatised to indoor pulling.

biscuit - on 13 Feb 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

It'll be interesting to see how you get on with what seems to be proven new finger strength. I hope it applies well in the real world for you.
deacondeacon - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

Thanks grubes,

STG-indoor f7a+ redpoint and a couple more F7A's on grit.

MTG-few routes on my wishlist, long johns slab, archangel, the rasp. (by end of april)

LTG- consolidate E4, at least 10 (by the end of 2013)


Mon-routes at the foundry up to 6c

Tue-bouldering at the works
7 miles on the turbo trainer

Wed-routes up to 7a at the foundry
7 miles on the turbo trainer

Thu-routes at Rivelin

Fri-bouldering at Shipley Glen




Felt like a pretty good week, nothing hard but lots of enjoyable climbing. Have finished all the yellow problems (except one under a skip) at the works, which seemed unlikely,
Also did a bit of trad at Rivelin Only lead a VS (spiral route) but was nice to be out.
Then Shipley Glen on the friday. It was a bit green but I still really enjoyed it. Almost got Red Baron but ran out of steam. Definitely want to go back though.
Family stuff all weekend and being ill.

This week I've done another 7a at the foundry (pink up the main overhang) and the green spotty 6c+/7a in the furnace which was proving to be a bit of a nemesis.
Also did a 7A and a 7A+ on the competition wall at the works which I'm really pleased with as they both went in a session and I've never climbed 7A indoors, ever.

I'm feeling pretty excited about seeing improvements from my training so hopefully I can translate it to outdoors.
Do most people climb higher grades outdoors than indoors?

mrchewy - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to deacondeacon: Good effort on the 7a+! A proper solid week.

Pretty sure there's more than a few who climb harder outside on here. I know I do. V3 outside before inside and onsighted 6a this summer and I've never done that indoors.
AJM - on 14 Feb 2013
In reply to deacondeacon:

I usually do better outside on routes although not as clear cut on boulders as I dont boulder outside as much.

I'm trying to rectify the route disparity because lacking the power/intense pe for indoor style routes is a serious weakness that's easy to address.
AJM - on 15 Feb 2013
In reply to grubes:

> Anyone able to do the 24/2?
> If worst comes to worst I could do that once I get on the wifi at the hotel but I will be very jet lagged ... plus it depends what I have to do.

If no-one else wants to I'll save you from the jetlag ;)

I remembered what my Monday achievement was in the fingerboard too. New pb on the weighted hangs. Up to 16kg and a little bit. I'm sure I'd hung the previous weight before albeit for shorter max strength stuff rather than the 10s hangs I've been training on this time round this however is definite moves into uncharted territory.

Have got the fingerboard back up now so hopefully in next week's report I may have some sessions from this weekend to report...

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