/ UKC Fit Club 625

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Tom Green on 10 Mar 2019

Hi Fit Club.

Another week, another seven days of progress towards those goals?! Talking of which... this week can we have a Goals Amnesty?! Get those goals stated/restated, partly for yourselves and partly for the rest of Fit Club to be able to chew over the match of process to goals.

And next week, I plan on waking up the 666 goals again... it's slowly creeping up on us!

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502 2  3 

Last week’s thread can be found here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/ukc_fit_club_624-701380

Posters:

AJM -logistics are so often the hardest part of getting climbing goals ticked. Sorry to hear about your van issues -I live in fear of my van getting sick! I hope you get everything sorted for Font and make the most of a bit of time away from life stresses.

Ally Smith -top smashfest! High Five on Swimming Through... -top tick. What's the crack with Cuba? Climbing or chilling? Does this mark the end of a training cycle then?

Tom Green -back in to training after the lurgy? where are you at with moving MTG to STG?

Ianstevens -impressive to see an almost complete tick of the old STGs -top job! Also, liking the variety of new goals. You're another one where (whilst admiring the training consistency) I wonder whether you'd benefit from an occasional rest day after some of your more high intensity days?

Lornajkelly -being incapacitated by a migraine must have been pretty frustrating. I hope this week gave you an easier time. How are you structuring those wall sessions to match up with your goals? Mileage/working weaknesses/mixing up styles/strength vs endurance? (Part of the reason I ask is because I'm trying to figure out how to best use climbing sessions to progress toward my goals!)

Somerset Swede Basher -glad to hear the shoulder is behaving. No relapse following this week's max hangs? The mam tor day sounds emotional... Love it! We want more detailed tales like that!

biscuit -top job on the podium finish. Worth it for the free pizza! It sounds like you've got a good balanced structure for building endurance and maintaining strength for your 2019 goals. What Scottish routes have you got in mind?

Alan Little -Your box step method is a bit of a light-bulb moment for me... I've always struggled not to push up of my 'downhill' leg, thus making it too easy. I know what you mean about the need to improve ability to do hard days back to back -for me it's consecutive winter days that kill me. Is there a more cunning way of improving the ability to recover than simply 'practicing' back-to-back days? What is the hive-mind's opinion on more ARC/AeroCap work to help with this? 

guy127917 -so do I take it that you're psyched for grit E points? is that the focus for current STGs?

SFrancis -Saturday looks like both high intensity and high vol. I'm sadistically hoping you had major DOMS on Monday?! Did you manage to build on that with this week's strength sessions and avoid any further tweaks? Most importantly... where are you up to with trip plans for Q2/3?

Planetmarshall -you getting on well with the Crimpd sessions? What is the next progression? Less weight off? Look forward to seeing the Alpine Combine results -I'm predicting massive gains on the pull-ups!

Ardo -building a solid base standard (for both trad and sport) sounds like a really good approach. It's so easy to get in to number chasing, especially on the sport side of things! Keep us posted with what routes catch your eye.

Powerpuff -looks like a good balanced week with AnCap/Strength sessions and some complimentary conditioning. Are you doing any antagonist work other than the wrist curls? Remind us of your goals...

the sheep -wow! Monday sounds intense! Although with T-Su being consistent work-out days maybe an enforced rest is no bad thing! Do you think a rest day following the higher intensity days (like the intervals) good be advantageous? (I'm just jealous of your dedication!)

mattrm -forcing yourself out when you feel below par is an interesting one... usually even if psyche is low to start with I feel better for having done the session. Why do you think you didn't get much out of it? Did it make it feel easier getting out for the next session, even though it wasn't a particularly positive sesh? Nice %-on goal, by the way.

alexm198 -good work getting back in to the post-trip training. Where are you up to shifting your MTGs in to STGs? Any thoughts on specificity for those rock goals? 

Tyler -good to have a few irons in the fire, but sounds like drawing the line at four projects might be a plan! Did you get back on the conditioning wagon or are you opting for climbing as training for climbing?

Bones -that pain in the neck sounds like a pain in the neck! Is this the same as previous? Any preventative plan from the docs/physio? Good work on the routing -maybe strength/technique gains from the bouldering means the moves don't need the same effort, so the length isn't an issue?!

Climbthatpitch -I know what you mean about trying to balance efforts in running and climbing. What specific alpine goals do you have? For a lot of routes, it's likely that the running fitness will make the biggest contribution to success, meaning you just need to maintain the climbing rather than put in a tonne of effort to improve.

MIA: grubes, Rebecca Ting, cyan.

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Powderpuff on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Powerpuff -looks like a good balanced week with AnCap/Strength sessions and some complimentary conditioning. Are you doing any antagonist work other than the wrist curls? Remind us of your goals...

Hi Tom,

Yes I do some theraband for the shoulders....but to be honest I forget to mention it most weeks!

For various reasons I have no specific climbing goals at the moment other than getting to the wall or going on my fingerboard fairly regularly. Fit club acts as a good push to do these more often.

Not a great week for me, went climbing on Monday and felt something was wrong,  I had nothing in the tank. On Tuesday I started to come down with a virus which has lasted all week....I've had a bad run of illnesses lately, ar well.

Monday: climbed up to v3 at the wall. Theraband for shoulders.

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Somerset swede basher - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks Tom, I'll go back for O'Neals Ledge when it's been long enough to forget about my aborted attempt! Not a great wek this week. 

Mon. Some half arsed conditioning stuff with the theraband mainly focusing on the shoulders and a few press ups. 

Tues. Morning 15km round trip on the bike to hospital. Got a bone condition I needed some treatment for. Had some pretty strong drugs direct to blood stream (same thing bone marrow cancer patients get). Got 12hrs+ before side effects kick in so went to work and called in to Cave Dale on the way home and made a cheeky FA. Double Ewe 7A+.

Wed. Side effects day one. Vomiting, fever, muscle stiffness (couldn't walk) and nosebleed (they didn't mention that one yesterday!) generally a pretty dark day.

Thurs. Bit better, fever intermittent made it up stair without using hands

Fri. Full range of movement back! Tired. 

Sat. Left the house 1mile walk. Watched rugby. Tired. 

Sun. 2 Mile walk, trying to decide if I can face going to work tomorrow or not. Still really tired.

Expect a chilled week next week, and lots of eating! 

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mattrm - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

STG - 14st

MTG - Goblin Girl (6b) 6c at Navigation, then WFD

LTG - Definitely bouldering, bearing in mind Trad will be hard for the next few years...

Weight - 14st 8lbs

M - Rest

T - Rest

W - "HiiT"

T -"HiiT"

F - Rest

S - 3 mile walk with toddler

S - "HiiT"

Slight improvement in the averages this week.  Just got to keep it up for the next fortnight and I'll be at 50% this month nicely.  I was just tired and despondant about last weeks session basically.  It's a big mountain to climb.  A lot of weight to get off to regain anything approaching my previous levels of fitness.  I know I've got to start, that's just easier said than done. 

Jan overall - 41%

Feb overall - 25%

Mar so far - 50%

2019 - 36%

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AlanLittle - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

STG: Get outside some more when the weather improves again. Left leg pistol squat.
MTG (2019): Double digit 7's including Frankenjura 7b+ project 
LTG (2021): Redpoint 8a before I hit 60 

M: Bike one hour.
    Half an hour shoulder press, reverse wrist curls, box squats for the new STG. 
T: Wall, Thalkirchen. Odd session: felt unrecovered from the weekend & tired from work and was slow to warm up, but then ended the session with a highly encouraging second go redpoint of a steep juggy 6c. Trying successfully to keep the vert crimping to a minimum, both because of sore pulleys and in order to avoid only training my strengths.
W: Ordered my hundred metre Kalymnos rope for May. Am sure to be the only person on the island modeling this year's distinctive & stylish Decathlon Pink. Maybe.
    Bike one hour
T: 40 minutes shoulder press, reverse wrist curls, box squats for the new STG. 
F: Wall, Weyarn. Autobelay mileage. Finished up with a variation on the lattice 1 minute on, one off aerocap protocol, doing the one minute off on the wall on jugs instead of on the ground. Seems like a good idea.
S:  
S: Wall, Boulderwelt. Circuits. Moving towards the shorter/harder/ancap end of the scale and keeping it steep. Enjoyed the 40 minutes bouldering to warm up though, and feel like I probably should get back to bouldering more after nearly a year of mostly Kaly-focused endurance training.
    Half an hour shoulder press, reverse wrist curls, box squats afterwards.

Let's just be clear on one point regarding the Two Days On methodological question: the Frankenjura has the world's highest surviving density of excellent village breweries. I am not open to any Saturday evening recovery ideas that involve not supporting this vital world cultural heritage. 

Post edited at 20:58
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Tyler - on 10 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Tyler -good to have a few irons in the fire, but sounds like drawing the line at four projects might be a plan! Did you get back on the conditioning wagon or are you opting for climbing as training for climbing?

I've always found climbing the best training for me, mainly because I'm not focused enough.

M: Depot Manchester on the way to Birmingham, mainly circuits as the reds were the same as last two time I went. Failed to RP both 7a circuits.

T: Depot Birmingham, mainly circuits as the reds were the same as last two time I went. Failed to RP both 7a circuits.

W - F: Nothing other than a few press ups.

S: Boulder UK, a real low point. Everything hurts, jumping off hurts, any mine foot slip hurts, my fingers hurt, I don't push myself because I know I'll just be adding to the pain. Left after an hour but cheered by Else's winning in the rugby.

S: Big Depot Leeds swinging about on a steep lead wall hurts less. Not sure what I'm going to do, bad hips rule out turning myself into an alpine star but maybe I can join others my age and buy a road bike! 

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biscuit - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Cheers Tom. Excellent statting.

Goals! Good point. I type them every so often and keep meaning to copy/paste them but I never do. 

666 goals - V6’s at BUK 

6 slabs - 0 done

6 vert - 3 done

6 steep - 4 done

Climbing goals

Podium at the Depot winter league. Some strong competition this year. 

Get to the shelter stone over Summer and do a couple of the low E classics.

Red wall traverse - right to left 

Sport - get a 7b+ done. Probably at Chapel Head. 

Sport trip in October - onsight 7b. 

None climbing goals:

Haute route end of March. 

This week was Ok. Done physio most days for shoulder. It needs a day off after a climbing day to settle. 

Sleep/diet not the best due to birthday excess. Totally worth it though. 

Only one climbing session. Back on routes at Kendal. Good warm up on autos for 2 x 10min and then about 8 routes on the big walls. Skin very sore. Didn’t quite manage a 7a. Lots of work to do. 

I also stuck some aero work on the end of coaching in wed eve when I normally just go home. 

This week:

busy with uni and hopefully off to Scotland skiing thurs/fri so not much opportunity. 

Aero work after coaching on wed

physio every day. 

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Lornajkelly - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Lornajkelly -being incapacitated by a migraine must have been pretty frustrating. I hope this week gave you an easier time. How are you structuring those wall sessions to match up with your goals? Mileage/working weaknesses/mixing up styles/strength vs endurance? (Part of the reason I ask is because I'm trying to figure out how to best use climbing sessions to progress toward my goals!)

Hi Tom,

It was pretty crucifying, not to mention all the ones I had this week as well.  Finally managed three consecutive days migraine-free weds-fri but saturday morning broke my streak.  Still managed some training though:

Mon: migraine

Tues: migraine

Weds: migraine hangover (the after-effects of a bad migraine are a lot like a hangover.  I could barely move all day)

Thurs: wall session, a couple of leads clocked, and some overhanging toproped routes and a 6a up a vertical corner.  That's my first 6a not on a slab (since injury).  Shoulder feels great now.

Fri: rest

Sat: migraine

Sun:  couch to 5k week 3 (easing back into it gradually but starting 4 next week) along the canal.  Then a fantastic climbing session with a 5+ and another 6a on a vertical wall - pretty strenuous and immensely satisfying.  

New STG:  Lead 6a by my holiday to Germany (23/3).

MTG (end of 2019): Lead 5 outdoor VS.

LTG (end of 2021):  comes the dervish, style unimportant.

As for how I structure wall sessions - at the moment I'm trying to lose the weight I put back on so I'm purposefully doing steep routes to achieve something akin to HIIT.  Pulling 12 stone up those overhangs is better than any exercise class!  Before I injured myself I was climbing twice a week and alternating a lead session (to train my head) with a hard toprope session (to train my body).  The toprope session would usually be a mixture of different types of route - I could flash technical 6b on slab and drag myself up 5/5+ on overhang, so I would try as much as possible to do a bit of everything.  The lead session was simply mileage.  In a sense they were both about pushing my weak areas: building strength on steep routes, developing footwork on slabs and pushing the limits of where my fear sets in on lead.  I'd say it's important to have the variety because it's easy, for me at least, to get demoralised by making myself focus on things I know I can't do. 

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Bones [:B - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Bones -that pain in the neck sounds like a pain in the neck! Is this the same as previous? Any preventative plan from the docs/physio? Good work on the routing -maybe strength/technique gains from the bouldering means the moves don't need the same effort, so the length isn't an issue?!

Hey Tom

I imagine the neck thing is related but not exactly the same. I have suffered from neck problems since I was very small. Think something swells and causes a restriction when the bones are not quite in the right place so releasing the joints helps. It makes me feel sick and lying down in a darkened room with ibuprofen helps. It was fairly under control for many years but I think building up climbing muscles and not working the opposing muscle groups or stretching as much as I should have made it worse again. The doctor was fairly useless and brushed it off, telling me to take vitamin D which is an ongoing joke in our house because I more or less refused (even though it couldn't hurt) thinking it was such a ridiculous solution for something that is worse in sunshine/heat. Anyway...last week it just seized up and then was spasming which it did for the first time last autumn. I have an osteo appointment in a couple of weeks with my MRI results from before Christmas so should have more info then.

Apologies for the long story! So in summary, actions to take are: stretching and massage/foam roller, vit D, working opposing muscle groups and see what osteo says in a couple of weeks.

Mon: Climbing, working my pink route on the wave. Working my weakness - power moves. Currently got 5 moves in sequence out of 8

Tues: rest

Weds: started at a new gym aimed mainly at climbers. First class was calisthenics and I worked on front lever stuff, 666 goal. My video from instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/Burj76UhACS/ Plenty of work to do!!

Thurs/Fri: rest

Sat: boulder at Red Spider down in Portsmouth - feeling incredibly out of breath and tired during this session. Possibly starting off with all overhung routes or maybe not enough fuel? Not sure.

Sunday: Wave and campus session at the Castle. Was really good. I couldn't do much on the wave. Feeling a little weak but worked power on the campus board and was surprised how much I had improved. I did 1, 2, 3, match ;  1, 2, 4 match ; 1, 4, match. Working on 1, 2, 5, match and did 1,2,4, bump to 5, match

STG:
Power: Complete a wave route and 1, 2, 5 campus on each arm
10 pull-ups

666 goal:
front lever

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AJM - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> AJM -logistics are so often the hardest part of getting climbing goals ticked. Sorry to hear about your van issues -I live in fear of my van getting sick! I hope you get everything sorted for Font and make the most of a bit of time away from life stresses.

Thanks Tom.

Bit of a stressful week. Hectic at work trying to get things cleared off whilst also trying to sort out alternative plans for getting to Font. Didn't get anything done other than that.

Then on Friday I got a call saying the van was fixed! They'd done it in under an hour - taken something out, cleaned and greased it, popped it back in and all's good again. 

Saturday we drove to Font, which was all fine except for an annoying diversion (there's a linking dual carriageway near Versailles which has a 2m height restrictions, which doesn't work for our van) and a long wait trying to get through border control at Cherbourg.

Yesterday was very blowy .pulled on a few times but feeling a bit rubbish, scratchy sore throat and a headache, just a bit run down and caught the edge of a bug I guess. Resting today too and hopefully on it tomorrow. 

In terms of my goals, I don't have the text on hand to c&p but basically Mark of the Beast, lots of trad, E5 and some specific sport ticks at Cheddar and Portland. Font is more of a holiday than a core focus for goals this year. 

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guy127917 - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks Tom, yes definitely still psyched for some trad routes

Monday: Pretty bad session on the wave, bit of a low after sending 3 routes previous week, have to start on new routes which seem very very hard! Candidates are dark green LH (big move up off an undercling), RH pink (cross LH through off heinous RH pinch), and RH grey crimps (power move to a small crimp, hard to hold wild swing). Yellow/green spotty (basically campusing) and LH pink (semi dynamic move to a horrible LH crimp on the 60 deg section) are outside possibilities.

Afterwards some fingerboard work- should have done this straight off but it was busy. Started badly but did warm up into it a bit. Did one arm 33mms straight arm and lock offs, 25 and 35 deg slopers and some front and middle 2 two armers, all 10s.

Tuesday: didn't feel great, skipped on run

Wednesday: skipped on run again

Thursday: Really nice 17km run, Hackney Wick bouldering in the evening- thought it was a comp but it wasn't. Their new woody is a friendly angle for me, about 20 degrees I think. Did a few campus things to start getting back into it. 1-2-6/1-4-6 is current max.

Friday: Rest

Saturday: 10km run, bouldering at red spider- really great wall! Felt pretty good throughout this session

Sunday: Back on the wave at the castle, felt pretty weak! Shoulders getting really quite sore.. need to get on some prehab for these on off days with theraband and warmup more.

Bit of a weird week- had Thursday and Friday off work and was hoping to get away for some outdoor bouldering and climbing but in the end both weather and family stuff scuppered that plan. One unexpected plus was finally carpetting the rear door of our van- todo list item for the last 2 years ticked! Should have done one more run according to my plans- and am definitely not on great form for half trail race this coming Saturday! Bouldering is going ok though, will try and get a fb session, limit session and routes in this week, as well as 2 light running sessions before the race. 

Goals-wise...

I am quite enjoying not having a very specific goal, and focussing on the process each week (just targetting a number of sessions). Getting 3 routes on the wave exceeded my expectations for Q1 I think, and now I would like to transfer that to outdoor bouldering and get something some v4 and v5s and ultimately v6s. Also will be happy to add trad routes to the logbook whenever the opportunity calls, and have plenty named routes on the todo list, but not things I feel the need to train for specifically.

That said, I could definitely improve the structure/quality of sessions, both running and climbing, and happily add some strength training back in. Having specific goals might push me to do this and help me a bit when I falter from the plan. I'll consider it more this week.

Post edited at 13:18
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alexm198 - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Hi Tom, thanks for the stats! And good shout on the goals amnesty. Have been putting some thought into some new STGs and how to bridge the gap between MTG and LTG. Interested to hear what the FC collective think. 

In other news, an OK week for me. Lots of Z1 mileage, a couple of sessions at the wall and (nominally) some strength work, though I let peer pressure get the better of me on Saturday. 

Last Week (Building back up to pre-trip volume Week 2/2):

M: 1h30 Z1 uphill treadmill (replaced the stairmaster with this for a bit of variety)

T: 60min Z1 uphill treadmill.

W: Max strength maintenance session at the wall (instead of the gym). I'm going to try and make these slightly more rock specific now, so will be using the fingerboard a bit more and adjusting some of the tool-based exercises to work a wider variety of grips. Limit bouldering afterwards, was pleased to flash a couple of the steep problems from the V4-5 circuit and make good progress on two V5-6 problems.

T: 60min Z1 uphill treadmill.

F:  60min Z1 uphill treadmill. 

S: Ice/mixed muscular endurance session at the wall (instead of the gym) with a mate who was visiting. He sacked it off after one circuit and went bouldering. Much as I should have carried on, I did the same.  

S: Rest. 

A few things I need help/advice with:

1. Recommend me a fingerboard routine? All Along the Watchtower has a series of plumb vertical 5.11 finger cracks and then a 5.12a traverse under a roof on undercuts which is often aided on microcams. I'd like to put some extra juice in my fingers to stand a chance of getting up it in good style (I think freeing the crux is beyond me, but my partner should be able to). But don't really know where to start. Was looking at Ned Feehally's protocols on the Beastmaker site, so was thinking I'd just do that. 

2. ARCing for punters. Was reading about how ARCing the forearm version of aerobic base from TFTNA. But as I'm a punter, nothing on a circuit board is mellow enough for me to last long enough on. How should I go about getting these sessions in? Long traverses? Autobelay on mega jugs? Also, in terms of incorporating this into my goals, should I aim for a given volume of ARC work, or a certain difficulty?

3. Juggling strength and aerobic fitness over a long period. The limiting factor for my first LTG (which I'm aiming to try at the end of July) is mainly technical difficulty/strength. AAtW is only 900m which isn't massive by alpine standards, but it's technically harder than alpine rock I've climbed in the past. Conversely, my objective in Russia (which I'm aiming to try in September) is more technically moderate but involves covering about 25km of ice/mixed terrain, mostly above 4000m. So the key ingredient is aerobic endurance. My current training plan should see me 'peaking' in July, so I am mildly concerned about how I can keep myself in good shape for both. Am I best off trying to maintain an 8 week peak period?

Last week's goals:

[4/5] 5x Z1 sessions (comprising 6h total volume)

[x] 1x Max Strength maintenance session (in dire need of this)

[Kind of... not really.] 1x Ice/mixed muscular endurance workout (3 times through the circuit)

Goals:

This Week

  • 7h Z1 volume
  • 1x ice/mixed muscular endurance workout (3 times through the circuit)
  • 2x climbing sessions (alternatively, Scotland at the weekend)

STG (End of April 2019)

  • Average 8.5h Z1 across the 7 weeks between now and end of April
  • Build up to 5 times through the muscular endurance circuit
  • 2 alpine lines >700m (not necessarily rock)
  • 1 alpine rock lines >700m >6b in preparation for Bugaboos (might be touch and go with conditions this early)

MTG (End of July 2019)

LTG (End of September 2019)

  • 6x5000m peaks on the Bezengi wall, Caucasus.
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guy127917 - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

Fingerboard routine- I have had good success with very simple max hangs protocol- 10s on, 1minute off x3 (with about 90-95% 1RM weight) as "1 set", doing approx 10 sets in a session across 3-6 different grips (4 finger, front 3, back 3, mid 2, slopers etc). The key for me is not trying to get too complicated!

ARCing - for me autobelay sessions something like 4-6 sets of 8 minutes on/8 off is a good compromise of long/easy and not too annoying for everyone else trying to climb, and allow some harder moves every now and again. If I do that once/twice a week I see reasonable improvement in about 3-5 weeks. I tried traversing a lot in 3x15 minute blocks a couple of years ago but didn't feel it helped that much, and I scored fairly low on the lattice aerobic test at that point. 

How is your technique with respect to jamming? I'd be surprised if putting specific training time in on fist, hand and finger cracks wasn't worth it over plain old ARC fitness for the Bugs

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the sheep - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> the sheep -wow! Monday sounds intense! Although with T-Su being consistent work-out days maybe an enforced rest is no bad thing! Do you think a rest day following the higher intensity days (like the intervals) good be advantageous? (I'm just jealous of your dedication!)

Cheers Tom, normally im ok recovery wise after the shorter more intense training such as intervals. Im finding that a rest day is a good idea after the longer runs now im pushing the distance.

This however is somewhat ironic as in terms of goals distance was never one of them. However as my first event isnt until June and my wifes running her first marathon at the beginning of May then im helping her by training with her and there will be time for me to work on pace later on. Swimming wise the speed is still good, did a 400m sprint the other day before rounding the distance up and can still happily clock around the 6 minute mark. Cycle wise its been a slow start to the year but i know im bit of a fair weather cyclist and the cycle fitness will soon return. 

Anyway, any consistency I may have built up went to pot over the last week!

Monday, silly busy day at work then took the eldest to swim training who promptly mis judged one of her sprint finished and smacked her hand into the end wall so that was game over

Tuesday, eldest's hand was painful and swollen so off to the doctors then the hospital for xrays etc. Thankfully nothing broken so just the usual rest and elevation etc.

Wednesday, back to work, managed a 1km swim at lunchtime and ran home. Boy was it windy and a good part of the route was on the canal tow path which was acting like a funnel so ended up feeling like i was running constantly into a gale. 16.5 km and I was knackered afterwards!

Thursday, 2km swim followed by stretch class

Friday, youngest daughter poorly so day off school for her and day off work for me.

Saturday, one of the wife friends from her run club is doing the National Forrest Way ultra marathon so had agreed to scope out a section of it with him. Result, a very enjoyable 22.5km trail run and we avoided the rain too

Sunday, rest 

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SFrancis - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks for comprehensive stats, and I noticed a few of our summer objectives are similar!

Well I actually felt a lot better, and no real doms on the Monday, I was pleasantly surprised.

In terms of trips booked; the two confirmed are Font for Easter weekend and a week in the alps early July. We had two trip options; head back to Chamonix for the Cordier pillar and Grand Capucin or head for Italy/Swiss border. We've decided to try the second and fly into Milan, with the current plan to start at Val di Mello and then head up to have a look at the Cassin on the Piz Badile. Slightly early season for this and i'm wary of the approach possibly being treacherous, as I don't want to have to carry crampons/axe just for the approach. As alternatives or if we have time to spare we've discussed possibly heading for Sudgrat/Westgrat in Salbit or Motorhead in eldorado. All with in reasonable driving distance. I like to have loose plans, and not be totally fixated on one objective so we can just let the weather dictate.

Not booked but discussed so far is Fairhead and Berdorf which would be the weekend after Font, not convenient but that's when Ive been invited. A long with a lot of UK based projects to tidy up and routes on the ticklist.

Week 04/03-10/03

M: 30 min run.

T: EH Strength workout. 8 Boulders, FB max hang 7-53 x 3 1/2 crimp (97kg), 2 x back 2 (95kg), 6 x med rung campus ladders, 3x4 93kg pull ups, Rings session.

W: Gym Session (lunch), Bench press 3 x 5 reps 55kg (easy), 3 x 4 110kg deadlifts (hard). P.M. 1min on/off x 10 aero session.

T: 30min run.

F:  EH Strength workout. 8 Boulders, FB max hang 3 x 7-53 1/2 crimp (97kg), 6 x med rung campus ladders, 3x3 94kg pull ups, 2 x 20 push ups. Weekend looked like a right off, so went out to catch up with friends I hadn't seen in ages. A brilliant but heavy night, not home until 5am.

S: Rest.

S: Annoyingly weather had picked up for Portland, but I had failed to get life admin sorted. So went for a chilled 3.5 mile country walk.

I managed to stick to the start of the 3-2-1 Eric Horst plan, but still failed on lifestyle goals, although it was good to catch up with mates. Its been a bit non-stop on the drinking, with all the questionable decisions on food choices that entails. 

Goals 11/03-17/03

*2 x EH Workouts , 2 x runs, 1x Gym session (focus on antags),1 x aerocap session

*Aiming to get out at the weekend - hoping for the peak but weather is looking crap again. Possibly one day south coast if not.

*No drinking at least until the weekend. Strict diet. 

Post edited at 16:01
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Ardo - on 11 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Thanks for stat-ting Tom. Got plenty of stuff catching my eye, so just need the weather to play ball!

Mo:    General walking, 10.5 miles. 10 probs; MH, (4*12/180); IDH, (4*4*10:10/90); LB pyramid, 12321 laps/90”.

Tu:    General walking, 9.9 miles. Physio.

We:    General walking, 7.2 miles. BC, 5, 5+, 6a+; MH, (4*12/180); IDH, (4*4*10:10/90); LB pyramid, 12321 laps/90”; ARC: 10'.

Th:    Country walking, 11.5 miles.

Fr:    Urban walking, 9.6 miles.

Sa:    General walking, 8.6 miles.

Su:    Country walking, 12.6 miles.

Weight: 10st 1lb/bf 14.8%

Good session Monday. More physio on Tuesday: piriformis and hip mobility and again, not such a painful walk home. Another good session Wednesday. No outdoor due to weather, but a solid week's effort.

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Tom Green on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Easing back in to training after A) the lurgy, and B) a long period of poor training consistency! Deliberately dropped a couple of sessions as I felt like I needed a bit more recovery time than usual.

Week 10:

M: Lurgy/rest.

T: Rest.

W: Rest -could have forged on, but felt like an extra rest day was probably sensible.

T: Core session + General Strength session. Felt hard after a month of no structured training.

F: Indoor climbing. Trying to use this in a more structured way: 3 sets of 5 reps of AeroCap bouldering + 30 mins ARC continuous climbing. Moderate DOMS from yesterday.

S: Trail run. 10.3km, avg 5:38/km. Dead flat, non techy. Aerobically fine, but hips hurt -just due to not running for 3 weeks I think.

S: Rest. Had planned on core and max strength sessions, but had whole body tiredness. 

Week 11 plan:

2 x Core session.

1 x General Strength. 1 x Max Strength.

120 min Z1 running.

2 x Climbing session.

STG/Q1:

I was about to call Q1 early and move on to less wintery goals, but maybe I'll see what this week's snow does first!

Scottish Tech 7 (Not yet -maybe chance to squeeze one last trip in?!)

3+ classic Cham mixed routes (2/3)

1+ SkiMo summit. (Nope)

Average 300m vertical on weekly runs. (Not on runs, but yes if you count approaches and climbs!)

MTG/Q2:

Lancs Aretes (666 goal)

Average 300m vert running per week

Bowland run/climbathon

Welsh 3000s

LTG/Q3:

Cuillin ridge traverse

Lancs aretes (666 goal)

Average 300m vert running per week

Some of: Salbit Westgrat, Piz Badile Cassin, Grand Montets ridge, Innominata, Cordier Pillar, etc...

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planetmarshall on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Planetmarshall -you getting on well with the Crimpd sessions? What is the next progression? Less weight off? Look forward to seeing the Alpine Combine results -I'm predicting massive gains on the pull-ups!

The crimpd sessions going well, sticking to the Max Hangs at the moment but might try a few other fingerboard routines in a few weeks. 

Last week's goals - Retest Alpine Combine and Max Hangs. Continue Leg Rehab  - Done

Mon - Retesting.

Pullups in 60s - 11 (increase of 6)
Situps in 60s - 30 (increase of 12)
Pressups in 60s - 29 (increase of 15)
Ring Dips in 60s - 14 (increase of 5)
Max Hang test - 70kg (BW + 2kg) (increase of 4kg)

Thu - Strength and Conditioning
Core
2 Sets of Weighted crunch, Knees to elbows, Hindu Pushup, 45s plank
Max Hangs (6x 10:120 @ BW-5kg)
Main
3 Sets of Wide Pullups, Pressups, Ring Dips.

Fri - Crimpd Fingerboard Aerocap protocol (40%)

Sat - Strength and Conditioning - as above

Sun - AW Sheffield. 4 easy routes on the top rope. Very tiring, but actually not too bad. The foot movement is very similar to the calf raises I've been given to do by my physio, and I spent a lot of time concentrating on my feet which is good for technique. I favoured lots of foot movement on rainbow holds rather than the usual 'feet follows hands' - this seemed to me a much better way of using the indoor wall in general.

STG - Continue strength and conditioning and leg rehab. Increase load on some exercises, and continue with the wide grip pullups - I think these are better for my shoulders. Maybe add a dumbell shoulder press. Another short wall session.

MTG - Leg rehab, and get back out on the rock.

LTG - Pabbay at end June. Ferry and charter now booked.
 

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mrchewy - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green: 

>I know what you mean about the need to improve ability to do hard days back to back -for me it's consecutive winter days that kill me. Is there a more cunning way of improving the ability to recover than simply 'practicing' back-to-back days?

If I ever managed to find one, it was doing longer days - being out in the hills for over 20hrs. I always felt stronger and more able to cope with concurrent days when I had long days in the bank, whereas b2b 10hr days just made me good at needing a rest in the evening, if that makes sense?

The year I ran Hadrian's Wall, I tried to do the Welsh 3000s every weekend for a month and took no proper rest days in the week. I think it was Iain who used to post on here who said to me that time on feet is the most important thing.

I've not done any walking or climbing since summer and whizzed up the Welsh hills on Friday in crap weather, mostly because I've been working constantly, evenings and weekends and I'm used to being on my feet.

Post edited at 10:13
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mrchewy - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

 > 2. ARCing for punters. Was reading about how ARCing the forearm version of aerobic base from TFTNA. But as I'm a punter, nothing on a circuit board is mellow enough for me to last long enough on. How should I go about getting these sessions in? Long traverses? Autobelay on mega jugs? .

I have the same issue, circuit boards are just too hard for me. I found the autobelay useful and rather than big jugs which can trash the skin, I tended to rainbow about - small feet and big holds, small holds and big feet. I also did lots of resting and generally focused on scapula position. I had a broken toe and sesamoid at the time but was trying to get fit for a 32pitch climb, I didn't make it, but I did climb my hardest grade a couple of months after. I found all the ARCing really helpful in terms of recovery, as it balanced an overdeveloped ancap performance.

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planetmarshall on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

> 1. Recommend me a fingerboard routine? All Along the Watchtower has a series of plumb vertical 5.11 finger cracks and then a 5.12a traverse under a roof on undercuts which is often aided on microcams. I'd like to put some extra juice in my fingers to stand a chance of getting up it in good style (I think freeing the crux is beyond me, but my partner should be able to). But don't really know where to start. Was looking at Ned Feehally's protocols on the Beastmaker site, so was thinking I'd just do that. 

As a total fingerboard punter (some of the numbers being thrown about here and on the Lattice FB group blow my mind), I've seen the most rapid improvements from a Max Hang protocol. In TFTNA terms, this is like a max strength period (longer hangs, longer rests) whereas I think the Beastmaker protocols are more like muscular endurance (short reps, short rests).

> 2. ARCing for punters. Was reading about how ARCing the forearm version of aerobic base from TFTNA. But as I'm a punter, nothing on a circuit board is mellow enough for me to last long enough on. How should I go about getting these sessions in? Long traverses? Autobelay on mega jugs? Also, in terms of incorporating this into my goals, should I aim for a given volume of ARC work, or a certain difficulty?

Yeah, no circuit board is easy enough for me to do ARC I used to do up and down on the long routes at Stockport AW (23m I think?) for about 30 minutes at a time, but you need a patient belayer for that, or one who's interested in the same stuff. The crimpd app has some more interval based routines that might be more practical.

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alexm198 - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to guy127917, mrchewy, planetmarshall:

Thanks all for your advice. Lots to think about. Will try and incorporate a couple of ARC sessions and a couple of simple max hangs fingerboard sessions into my weeks going forward. Sounds like it might take a bit of time to find that ARCing sweet spot. 

Re jamming technique, thankfully I'd say I'm pretty proficient. As you'll know, being London-based makes it fairly tricky to get any reasonable mileage on real rock at this time of year, so I suspect building up shitloads of endurance is the next best thing!

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guy127917 - on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

Indeed! Have you been on the wideboyz crack at the castle? (...fun but probably not worth a special journey for!)

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Silverback38 on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Hi Tom,

Can anyone join in with this thread?

Just getting into ‘Training for Alpinism’ and started my journey this week. Would love to share this with others 

Cheers 

Dean 

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Tom Green on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Silverback38:

Absolutely. Get stuck in!

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Silverback38 on 12 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

Sweet! 

Milk try and upload my plan I started this week tomorrow. 

Thanks again

Dean

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seankenny - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

> 2. ARCing for punters. Was reading about how ARCing the forearm version of aerobic base from TFTNA. But as I'm a punter, nothing on a circuit board is mellow enough for me to last long enough on. How should I go about getting these sessions in? Long traverses? Autobelay on mega jugs? Also, in terms of incorporating this into my goals, should I aim for a given volume of ARC work, or a certain difficulty?

This is a good method that I've found works well. I don't get anywhere near the recommended amount of climbing but the principal seems sound:

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,28009.msg549828.html#msg549828

Alex, where do you usually train in London?

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seankenny - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to seankenny:

Principle even. 

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AlanLittle - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to seankenny:

Hmm. I tried the "lots & lots of easy mileage" method a couple of years ago. Even went as far as stopping off at the wall to do laps on circuits on the way home from climbing on Sunday evening. 

It improved my endurance for sure, but it also gave me my first ever case of golfer's elbow.

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alexm198 - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to seankenny:

Cheers Sean, more food for thought. In that thread it's claimed that Patxi Usobiaga did all his training at 7b+ or below when he onsighted 8c+? That's nuts. 

Also, is the suggestion of tight fitting gardening gloves for real?

For climbing training, I'm usually at the Westway. You?

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seankenny - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to AlanLittle:

> Hmm. I tried the "lots & lots of easy mileage" method a couple of years ago. Even went as far as stopping off at the wall to do laps on circuits on the way home from climbing on Sunday evening. 

> It improved my endurance for sure, but it also gave me my first ever case of golfer's elbow.

Usual caveats apply!

Seriously tho sorry to hear you hurt yourself - I find this a really good method of improving both endurance and movement skills and it's helped improve my onsight level, but I also have a history of a lot of bouldering and having poor endurance. 

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seankenny - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to alexm198:

> Cheers Sean, more food for thought. In that thread it's claimed that Patxi Usobiaga did all his training at 7b+ or below when he onsighted 8c+? That's nuts. 

All his volume/base training! 

> Also, is the suggestion of tight fitting gardening gloves for real?

I think slightly tongue in cheek but work out the gap between 8c+ and 7b+ and apply it to your own climbing level - could you do that in gloves? It certainly shreds your skin.

> For climbing training, I'm usually at the Westway. You?

Westway and Acton Arch. Let me know if you want to meet up for some kind of endurance-related shenanigans. 

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ianstevens - on 13 Mar 2019
In reply to Tom Green:

> Ianstevens -impressive to see an almost complete tick of the old STGs -top job! Also, liking the variety of new goals. You're another one where (whilst admiring the training consistency) I wonder whether you'd benefit from an occasional rest day after some of your more high intensity days?

Thanks! I'd agree that I am quite bad at resting, although I try to cycle between the sports and do have days off if I feel like I need it. For example, its rare I'll fingerboard after a hard wall session, or do speedwork back-to-back. Seems to work so I go with it. I find that I tend to get very bored on rest days. 

Goals

STG: 1) Max hangs on the AA slot to 96kg total by 30/03; 2) 7 x 7a routes by 31/04; 3) Complete planned sessions to end of April (9/9 so far); 4) Feel like I've run well at Nant yr Arain and Lake Hayes trail halfs (23/3 and 19/4); 5) Weight to 70.5kg by 01/05 (current 72.3).

MTGs: 1) 100kg on the AA slot by 01/06; 2) Parkrun PB by 01/06; 3) Cadair Fell Race PB (currently 1:44:08); 4) Find a 7c project for the summer (Orme or Quarries probably).

LTG: 1) Do the project (see MTGs); 2) Under 7.5 hours in Snowdon Skyline (Sept).

Last Week (2019.10)

Mon: 1) Yoga; 2) Climbing - circuits ~6c; 3) 5 x 5 pull ups +2.5kg

Tues: 1) Yoga; 2) Turbo - 19.7km, 252m @ 251W; 3) 90% hangs 6 x 10 sec @ 85kg

Weds: 1) Yoga; 2) Climbing - more circuits 6c/7a ish

Thurs: 1) Yoga; 2) Hill reps 3 min x 6 (~5 min/km) 11.7km, 347m

Fri: 1) Yoga; 2) 90% hangs 6 x 10 sec @ 85.1kg; 3) Gym: shoulder shrug 5x3, pull up 5x5 +2.5kg, lat pull down 10x63kg 8x68kg 6x72kg, dips 6x3, low row 10x45kg 8x52kg 6x55kg, TRX IYT 10x3; TRX reverse IYT 10x3; wrist flexor curl 10x3 12.5kg; wrist extensor curl 10x3 8kg

Sat: 1) Parkun in 19:10 (windy excuse) + extra 2) Lattice floor core, H-core (crunch 25kg and twist 10kg) static hold and press (12.5kg) and row (25kg)

Sun: 1)Yoga; 2) Climbing - more circuits (route prep season!)

This week

More of the same. May go along to the Indy Comp on Saturday, tbc.

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Tom Green on 16:27 Thu
In reply to alexm198, guy, mr chewy, planetmarshall, et al!

Interesting chat about ARCing and fingerboarding, as I'm trying to work out a more rock-climbing based programme for the next training cycle. To a certain extent I feel the biggest gains will come from simply trad climbing as much as possible, but for various practical reasons I think I'll benefit from some specific training too.

As you know from me boring you with TFTNA posts over the last year, I've been fairly bought in to the 'base-max strength-muscular endurance' phase order. My question is: does this order translate well to rock climbing training periodisation?

I've looked at a few training plans that seem to order these phases differently... e.g. starting with endurance and progressing to max strength. I always thought, rather simplistically, that max strength came first so you had 'muscle to endure'! Is this not the perceived wisdom for rock-climbing progressions?

I'd be keen for feedback on my week plans for the next training cycle...

March + April: 'Max Strength' 

2 x Max strength workouts: 5 sets, 3 reps, ~85% of 1RM for Front Squat, Deadlift, Pull-up, Incline pull-up.

1 x Limit bouldering + ARC session

1 x AnCap bouldering + ARC session

(plus Z1 running, shoulder/elbow prehab, core sessions and maintenance general strength sessions)

May + June: 'Muscular Endurance' 

1 x Upper body muscular endurance workouts: 4 sets, 10 reps for Pull-up, etc.

1 x Weighted hill climbs

1 x Bouldering 4x4s + AeroCap session.

1 x Weight vest, high mileage climbing session

(plus Z1 running, prehab, core, maintenance general/max strength sessions)

So... pick holes in this for me! Is it half-sensible for my summer/autumn climbing goals of both climbing harder and climbing some long alpine routes? Do I need to enter the murky world of fingerboarding? What's missing, or what could be dropped?!

Thanks brain-trust!

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AlanLittle - on 17:37 Thu
In reply to Tom Green:

As far as I can tell the In Thing is base & max strength concurrently most of the time, with shortish phases of intense power endurance directly before the Big Event (whatever that may be)

Post edited at 17:39
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guy127917 - on 19:51 Thu
In reply to Tom Green:

The cool thing right now is fingerboard sets in between deadlift/squat sets. Supposedly they are complimentary both in terms of gains and time used. See training notes from Steve Bechtel etc.

Post edited at 19:52
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Tom Green on 20:01 Thu
In reply to AlanLittle:

That sounds good, as the strength stuff is much easier to follow than the endurance stuff!

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Tom Green on 20:01 Thu
In reply to guy127917:

Next level! Love it!

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ianstevens - on 20:37 Thu
In reply to Tom Green:

Climbing wise I’ve been on the endurance-strength-power-power endurance loop suggested by the Anderson brothers. Feels like it’s working but due to the weather haven’t managed to test it out, but good results on plastic with all the caveats linked with that. My fingers are super weak (thanks lattice) so have been supplementing with fingerboard work since December.

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biscuit - on 21:18 Thu
In reply to AlanLittle:

If you've the time/structure to fit it in (by which i mean you've a few months before a goal) then working strength the majority of the time combined with base fitness and then as your goal approaches bringing in suitable 'middle ground' strength endurance is suitable for most.

Strength takes time to develop - so work it as much as you can. Base fitness is also an essential building block.

The base fitness helps recovery (if done right) and also pushes the body to adapt its aerobic system as a whole. This can lead to increased capacity for strength training, as a nice by product, but also ensures two important aspects of what is required for building strength endurance are in place before you hit that.

Interestingly (N=only a few and they're around teenage age) I have found that this isn't as effective for those who haven't followed structured training before. It appears to have a bigger effect in those who have previously followed a continuous progress type plan for a few months. Lots of confounding factors but just an observation.

The Bechtel stuff assumes the increased hormonal response from high effort complex exercises like deadlifts drives a greater response from the forearm muscles trained at the same time/shortly after. Bechtel's science backs it up, as does my recent reading into blood flow restriction where effects have been seen in other limbs that haven't had their blood flow occluded. It'd be quite an intense workout though!

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SFrancis - on 08:39 Fri
In reply to Tom Green:

Do I need to enter the murky world of fingerboarding? What's missing, or what could be dropped?!

During the max strength phase I would definitely try and get some fingerboarding in. From personal experience it's easy to fit in and has given easily the biggest improvements in climbing. You could fit it in either straight after your warm up or after your bouldering. You probably want at least 2 sessions a week to see much improvement.

I think everyone could benefit from it. It helps with powering through cruxs to increasing base endurance, gives you a little bit extra slack if you fluff a sequence as well. I would have thought there would be some transfer through to crack climbs, especially finger cracks. You do get the odd crimpy edge even on granite.

Post edited at 08:39
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AlanLittle - on 09:02 Fri
In reply to SFrancis:

Personally I think the actual most useful thing to do for applicable & useful finger strength is crimpy limestone bouldering. Sadly my nearest bouldering area is over an hour's drive away and crap.

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Tom Green on 10:05 Fri
In reply to biscuit:

> The Bechtel stuff assumes the increased hormonal response from high effort complex exercises like deadlifts drives a greater response from the forearm muscles trained at the same time/shortly after. Bechtel's science backs it up, as does my recent reading into blood flow restriction where effects have been seen in other limbs that haven't had their blood flow occluded. It'd be quite an intense workout though!

Interesting stuff. I guess there are a lot of parallels in other areas of physiology, so it seems plausible.

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Tom Green on 10:10 Fri
In reply to SFrancis:

Thanks for the input... I guess I'll have to get Beastmaking!

One concern is that I occasionally get tweaky elbows (usually after high volume Font trips!) and I'm obviously keen to avoid this whilst increasing the amount of training. What are peoples do's and don'ts for a relative newcomer to structured indoor training and complete newcomer to fingerboarding?

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Tom Green on 10:12 Fri
In reply to AlanLittle:

Agreed... The strongest my fingers have ever been was when I lived next to the Hotwalls in Bristol and spent every other evening putting laps in. Obviously, not natural limestone per se, but the holds are all natural limestone crimps!

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SFrancis - on 10:20 Fri
In reply to AlanLittle:

Your probably right and it's worked for countless wads.

Its all about consistency though, and fitting in a fingerboard session is easy / convenient and non-condition dependent.

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alexm198 - on 10:35 Fri
In reply to guy127917:

Where are you people finding access to a squat rack and fingerboard in the same place? Asking because I'd dearly like to not pay for both a wall membership *and* a gym membership...

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SFrancis - on 10:39 Fri
In reply to Tom Green:

I occasionally get tweaky elbows but I've found the usual culprit is from lock offs or slopers. I have managed to train on the FB even when they are slightly tweaked, and it hasn't made them any worse. Not sure if this is good advice but it works for me. 

I have also found reverse wrist curls and push ups as the only thing that cures elbow tweaks, and now try to do them regularly as pre-hab.

Regarding structure, general consensus is to get all strength training out the way after a thorough warm up. I have tried FBing after warming up, and after 6-8 max boulders (can complete but at my limit, not quite limit bouldering) and both seem to work well for me.

The best improvements I've seen were with max hangs, and they are reasonably quick to do. I would limit yourself to 1 or 2 grips. I concentrated on just the 1/2 crimp grip, as it was very weak and now its my strongest grip (I've also seen improvements in full crimp and openhand from training 1/2 crimp).  I've now added in a bit of open 3/back 2 occasionally. Basic structure: ensure your warmed up, add weight hang on the board for 10s, rest for 02:30mins, repeat 3-5 times, and thats it.

You can use the Crimpd app to test the weight you should be using for your max hangs. Maybe worth doing a week of just body weight hangs on the FB just to ease yourself into it. 

Hope that helps, its worked for me. I am now trying the 7-53 Eric Gorst protocol just to mix things up.

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alexm198 - on 10:56 Fri
In reply to Tom Green:

I'm a relative newcomer to this stuff too, but two things I'd add:

  • 4x10 pull-ups seems on the low side, reps-wise, for optimal muscular endurance. Some of the ME workouts on Uphill Athlete involve 20+ reps in a set, but dropping off the bar as required to complete the set, or max consistent effort (i.e. paced not to blow up 20s in) in a given time. And then these are built into a circuit to allow some recovery time between sets. 
  • Re tweaky elbows, I have the same problem. I just do an elbow prehab circuit every time I finish a wall session these days. Sets of push-ups, forearm pronation/supination and wrist curls as described here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/injury_management_and_prevention_elbows-6156 
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guy127917 - on 10:59 Fri
In reply to Tom Green:

I've never found fb to be stressful on elbows (maybe if you do a lot of lock offs it would be?). Shoulders are stressed some extent, but overall I think fb is a good way to progressively and safely build shoulder strength if you are lacking in that area.

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guy127917 - on 11:01 Fri
In reply to alexm198:

The castle does not provide this feature! They only have about 130kg of weight for the bar. and you would have to climb a ladder between dl and fb! Your best bet is to go to a cheap as chips gym and take your own fb that you can hang off the smith machine locked in top position. There are a ton of gritty gyms near me that are £5 entry no membership, and others that are 19.99/month.

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AJM - on 13:22 Fri
In reply to guy127917:

> I've never found fb to be stressful on elbows (maybe if you do a lot of lock offs it would be?). Shoulders are stressed some extent, but overall I think fb is a good way to progressively and safely build shoulder strength if you are lacking in that area.

Ditto. I had elbow issues for a chunk of last year, but fingerboarding without lock offs was fine throughout.

Incidentally, in terms of things you can do with elbow issues, I found that front lever progressions were still fine (ie knees to bar and gradually straightened versions of that) because your arms stay mainly straight throughout, and it’s still working some useful back muscles along the way. Shoulder engages (scapular pull-ups or shoulder shrugs or whatever) also seemed to be fine, I could do those without any real problem.

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Tom Green on 21:30 Fri
In reply to all:

Thanks team. As always Fit Club delivers! -really useful stuff there.

Alex: fair point with the ME stuff... I'd just put the initial week of the ME phase in, so subsequent weeks would progress from there, but maybe I short start with higher reps too.

SFrancis: I started my fingerboarding journey today. Embarrassingly, on the Crimpd finger strength test my max additional weight on a 20mm edge was BW + 3.5kg! So your advice of sticking to BW is kind of inevitable!!

Less paranoid about dodgy elbows too, so thanks all!

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