UKC

I was thinking of getting a collapsible avalanche probe.Then this week several people have been killed in Austrian avalanches.I ordered a probe off ebay.

I take it you also have a shovel and transceiver?

Has anyone invented a dead man that can be attached to an axe to make an emergency shovel?

youtube.com/watch?v=ASs95G49OjI&

Check the avalanche on this  Annapurna vid.

 I have a shovel,and I ordered one for a partner.Transceivers can be hired from a certain ski club,pretty spenno to buy outright.Obviously two climbers need 2 transceivers,2 spades and 2 probes;not much use buried in the avalanche.

If you're going to dig someone out of an avalanche you want a proper shovel.

If you think you're going into that kind of terrain then spend the money because a probe and shovel are feck all use without the transceiver. 

More entertainingly we now (or did till I posted) have a thread juxto which read "probe faecal frustration"

And now it's "probe prana pants".

I've seen a few shovels that have detachable blades drilled out for use as a snow anchor, rather than deadmen for axes.  TBH, I'd just carry a light weight (but still effective) shovel instead given the short timescale you're trying to work to in companion rescue.  I carry probe, shovel and transceiver on quite a few days out and really don't think the extra weight makes any difference to my climbing - there's a limit to how crap you can be!   

It might encourage more folk to think about it though if they could combine kit they're already carrying.  I'm not sure how many climbers actually carry a deadman though.   

I did once try something with a deadman and some u bolts, but it really wasn't very effective (the wire was a PITA for example).

not a specific response to you, but to the thread in general - probe on it's own isn't much use; it really needs to be probe, shovel and transceiver to be effective.

Cheers!

Stu

And training and/or lots of practice. Which can actually be quite hard to do when you don't live in mountainous areas.

While I agree about the axe idea I suspect something could be designed that would render a deadman a reasonable if small shovel.  But in most circs would anyone carry both items rather than a shovel?

Plus extra time to find and assemble when time is short

Perhaps an item that is a  shovel by default that can become a deadman might work as you'd be doing the conversion in less time critical circumstances?

I don't really "dig" multipurpose emergency tools...

The trouble with "emergency" multipurpose tools is that they are usually not simple, or don't do anything really well. If it's a tool for emergency, it should perform really well in the emergency, being easy to assemble (under huge stress and in cold!) and dig really well in super hardened avalanche debris. Any multipurpose tool would probably have some compromises.

That said, many shovels have holes in them for use as deadmans, for anchoring tent in snow (although I have no idea of their effectivity as deadmans under heavier loads), and while I am not aware of any B or T rating of the shaft (anybody knows?), if you can use your skis as a deadman in some situations, you can probably use the shovel shaft as well.

The most important thing is of course not getting into any avalanche in the first place! Evaluate conditions, slope, past conditions, terrain traps, evaluate again, dig a Rutsch block if in doubt and be ready to abandon the route or whole plans if in doubt (it's mostly the mindset of "oh, when we already drove here for five hours and it's the only free weekend we have, we should just push on, what could happen!" that gets people into trouble).

The second most important thing is of course having the holy trinity (transceiever, probe, shovel) with you and know how to use them (as realistic training as possible, under stress conditions).