UKC

Gogarth Guidebook Controversy Moves to CC Website

© Chris the Tall
Mick Ryan

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Iain Peters has initiated a debate on the Climbers' Club (CC) website about CC's Gogarth guidebook that has been attracting so much debate at UKClimbing.com this week (read the original debate here).

Iain, the CC's Newsletter Editor, made a plea for CC members to record their opinions on the Gogarth debate at the CC's own website forum.

Mike Bailey in a mixture of scathing comment about UKClimbing.com said,

"It has almost become a regular event now - every few weeks the UKC crowd decide to give the CC a good kicking over the non-appearance of the Gogarth guide. Much of the traffic on that forum is glib and ill-informed, but nevertheless it all adds to the perception that the CC is allowing things to drift, and failing to address the situation. "

Mike went on to suggest constructively that,

"The most effective way to counter the criticism, and to demonstrate that the CC is serious about Gogarth, is to get what information we can out there for people to see, and quickly. This could be started by making the old guide available on-line (not impossible?), backed up with the draft information (easily available) on newer climbs, of which there are about 200. "

CC member, Al Downie countered with,

"Their speculation about reasons for the delays may be glib or ill-informed, but their opinions regarding the situation are extremely valid and should not be ignored."

You can read the full debate at the CC's website forum.

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Comments

Ian McNeill
17 Feb, 2007
It does take direct action and a will to inform people - good argumesnt about lack of editing and and sand baggers. But will anyone actually produe the toilet seat guide we all have been waiting years for? we have see several regional guides come out a couple of times in the same period. Why has Gogarth been forgotten? Lets hope we see the guide sooon to put a stop to gossip of a promised new Gogarth Guide. I want to have a copy my green ones falling apart I need a repacement within the year with a good graded list... Good luck to all concerned..
Dringo
17 Feb, 2007
It is very good to see this positive progress from the CC, especially from someone as nice as Mike, who probably shouldn't be worrying himself too much at this time. It is great that the CC is starting to realise the degree of frustration that many climbers, local and otherwise have with the situation. Talk or indeed words on a forum are cheap, I eagerly await some action from them. As for the lack of editing on the wiki, this is a problem that I can't defend other than saying that myself and Dr Evil do have a reasonable amount of experience of climbing at Gogarth. There are also facilities for moderators, administrators and the founder to back track any information changes, and if neccessary stop anyone other than those who we invite to edit the main text. Of course we don't pretend to have the experience of the CC editing team, but you are more than welcome to join the wiki project as moderators, and get as much information as possible on the site, at which point I will happy start restricting the editing to all but a trusted few. We are all just climbers who want the best out of a difficult situation.
dr evil
17 Feb, 2007
Calling all Gogarth devotees. Ever wanted to write a guidebook? Well now you can. Get on the wiki and start writing. Don't be shy. ANYONE who has done any of the routes can write up the descriptions. The Upper Tier section is almost finished and the others are underway. It's free. If the CC want to use the info to publish a guidebook then they are more than welcome to help themselves to it. The site is pretty rudimentary at the moment but it does open some interesting possibilties like a database of images of every route on the crag, logs of the climbs, concensus voting on stars and grades, on-line webcams etc Even if it is shit then it will be better than what currently exists ie nothing http://gogarth.wetpaint.com/
Fiend
17 Feb, 2007
Would the most effective way to counter the criticism be to tell people what stage the guide is in, what format it is in, how much is done, when it will be published etc - and get cracking with writing and publishing it?? All this web stuff seems to be missing the point IMO. I think people just want a good, honest, normal, print guide...
Paz
17 Feb, 2007
Isn't all the criticism Mick's? With the wiki, sure we can write our own description, but unless I climbed a route yesterday in which case it's fresh in my memory in any case, I'm going to have to go back and look at the original description in the CC guide and rewrite 'start at the big boulder and climb the crack' to 'climb the crack starting above the big boulder'.
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