UKC

Hi guys, I’m interested in doing some rather challenging paths with 2 friends. The point is, i’ve looked up some informations regarding a specific hike (boccalatte hut, Mt Blanc massif) and it looks like the last section with fixed ropes is easy yet very exposed on rocky terrain. They say the hemp ropes are too big to clip in with a proper via ferrata lanyard; most people go there without any protection. We want to achieve the highest safety levels possible: i thought of carrying a rope and simul-climbing the section (it’s not a long one) clipping the bolts and leaving 2 pieces of protection between each climber (remember we are a group of 3). What do you think about it? Do you have other suggestions? Thanks!!

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Prusiks maybe?

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Do you have a URL for that information as "hemp" would be exceedingly unusual?

In reply to plyometrics
that can be a good idea, the only issue is that you would spend quite a lot of time untying prusiks at every bolt and then tying the knots again

In reply to elsewhere:

Hi, yes sure but it’s written in Italian, here you are: https://www.theflintstones.it/montagna/escursionismo/rifugi.aspx?Cod=24&...

It says: <<Se si vuole procedere assicurati, per una maggior sicurezza nel tratto attrezzato, bisogna considerare il fatto che le corde hanno un diametro superiore a quelle classiche e pertanto non rientrano in un normale moschettone.>>. That means: “if you are thinking about clipping in for more safety in the exposed part, keep in mind that the ropes’ diameter [hemp ropes] is greater than usual and therefore they won’t fit in a normal carabiner”

Thanks for the reply!

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Thanks. Google autotranslate did not come up with "hemp". I thought hemp was archaic so I was surprised.

Via ferrata caribiners have wider gate opening than normal caribiners so that may be what they mean.

Hopefully an Italian speaker can clarify hemp and caribiner size.

https://www.jimwaltonmia.com/single-post/2017/07/04/via-ferrata-kit-can-i-u...

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Carry a few links of chain which you can loop around the rope and clip into?

With respect, you may wish to consider if your objective is appropriate if you are employing such work arounds.

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Some pics of the rope here which may be useful:

https://peakbook.org/en/tour/369598/Grandes+Jorasses.html

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

It would be unusual to clip in extensively to ropes like that. If you do feel the need to, slings acting as prusics, or clipping to metal bits where the rope is supported, or the other bits like stirrups etc which tend to be present on equipped paths are all options.

In reply to elsewhere:

That may be right but I don’t know about the size and I suspect the ropes are too big, also I haven’t seen any picture of people clipped in

In reply to MG:

That’s exactly what I thought, thank you. Yes I know the ropes are there just for your balance and it isn’t a Via Ferrata, but the (easy) ground is very exposed in some points, as you can see in the pictures. That’s why I thought about some safety measures, better safe than sorry 👍🏻

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Take a rope and pitch it, using the anchor points for sling runners?

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Depending on your further objectives in the area you may or may not already have some climbing kit with you. If you would, you could just check how it feels when you're there and see what's needed. For instance, if you're already planning to do some VF routes in the area it could be as simple as bringing a few quickdraws and a confidence rope. 

Now, I don't want to sound like a total killjoy, but if you are planning to bring climbing gear just for this one bit of exposed trail, then I'm not so sure if this is a worthwhile objective for your team. The Alps are literally sprinkled with stuff like this, often with less protection than available here. 

In reply to phizz4:

Not forgetting bivi equipment of course as they will likely need it

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Do you have other suggestions? 

MTFU. HTH.

jcm

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

I'm a bit baffled, if you are familiar with using a rope and simulclimbing I'd Not have expected you to want protection for the scramble to the hut. I am assuming you are talking about the hut and back?

If you wanted to via ferrata clip it, you might want to consider a scaffolding hook. 60mm opening size and 20kn. In the pic someone is grabbing inside their closed hand, so it has to be less than 60mm! You need an energy absorbing lanyard.

https://www.safetyliftingear.com/products/scaffold-hook-aluminium--az023-/g...

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

We've just encountered ropes like this on a mountain in Switzerland. One of the descent paths from Le Luisin is pretty steep and exposed and there must be nearly 1km of fixed rope much of which is total overkill. You definitely won't find a climbing carabiner that will go round this type of rope. Also you may find the rope has knots in and thus a prusik is just going to be a royal pain in the backside. 

My recommendation would be take a pair of gloves (fingerless ferrata/ cycling gloves) for the big ropes.

If you do encounter a section you're not happy without extra protection then clipping into the anchors for the rope (the ones we've encountered are attached with bolts) and using a confidence rope would work. Try to avoid doing this unless you really need to though as it's going to really slow you (and anyone else on the trail - I'd not be surprised if folks just clambered over you) down. 

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

Terrain does not look to bad, a bit exposed but hard to tell from the photos.

I would have thought faffing about with gear or whatever might leave you more exposed to rockfall or being benighted.

Just do it

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

I must have been down it twice but it can't be very memorable as I had to look it up in the mont blanc guide.

Its the last (short)section to the hut, so either 

1. Curtail your walk if you don't like the look of it.

2. Use a rope and some 60/120 slings girth hitched or larks footed to the anchor points as runners to pitch or simuclimb , if you don't understand this terminology, best not bother.

The rope is probably more a guide to the best and safest access route to the hut than for actual assistance. 

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

'Better safe than sorry' is not really applicable in the Alps where being 'safe' invariably entails costs that compromise your safety in other ways.

E.g. the precautions you are suggesting for a walk to a hut will mean you will take a long time, faff about more than you should (always dangerous) and have heavy sacs.

I'll make an exception in the case of the approach to the Couvercle though, that's a full-on VF!

In reply to elsewhere:

Corda just means ropes in general, including climbing ropes and any other kind of rope. Hemp rope is corda di canapa. Moschettone is the word for any climbing carabiner, so essentially the information is quite inspecific!

In reply to Ruggedbuddy:

When are you planning on going? The hut was shut when I passed it about Saturday lunchtime iirc, which was disappointing as I was hoping for a snack and a drink.

As others have said, if the roped sections bother you it may be worth considering other objectives. I wouldn't have called it particularly exposed, but then everyone has a different comfort zone for that sort of thing. If being safety attached is an issue, have you thought about trying some proper Via Ferratas, which will have cables specifically for clipping in?

Any trip into the mountains involves some element of risk, for a lot of people it's part of the attraction...