UKC

Hi all,

I'm off to the lakes for a short break from Sunday 10th to Wednesday 13th Sep, 2nd time there as I usually head to North Wales........looking to see if:

a) Anyone is free and fancies smashing some routes out

and/or

b) Anyone has advice on routes/linkups of decent scrambles

(Male/Single/38/relatively hill fit for info)

Thanks in anticipation of at least 1 reply

The new(ish) versions of the cicerone scrambles in the Lake District books have routes which link up multiple scrambles of various grades. 
 

Whereabouts are you going to be? There’s lots around Langdale

https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-south-2

https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-north-2

Going to be based around Borrowdale/Seatoller area but I'm mobile. I've got the South Lakes Scrambles book from Cicerone on order, should be here tomorrow

Just thought I'd reach out to see if any personal preferences from anyone on here

A link up of striding edge and pinnacle ridge is a good linkup, lots of ascent

If you're a very confident scrambler with a partner and a rope, why not try Harrow Buttress (Diff), Chockstone Ridge (M) and something else to top out Grey Crag Buttermere?

The Napes is also good...

You can link VDiff and Mod on Scafell Crag with Pikes Crag Diff and then head to Gable for Sphinx Ridge and Westmorland Pinnacle Crag (Mod/Diff) if you're fit, keen and capable.

St. Sunday Pinnacle Ridge up and Striding Edge down is good even in less than ideal weather (if fit and capable) - esp. if you're alone.

if you are staying in borrowdale - then Intake Ridge & Glaciated slabs are close by. Like others suggested if you are looking for roped climbs at low grade then Corvus (Diff) is an obvious route and on up to top of Glaramara.

a quick google also found this interesting set up link ups from Borrowdale which looks like it might be fun but I havent tried any of it https://www.eco-challenge.co.uk/borrowdale-scrambler/

P.s. another way to Great End is via Cam Crag Ridge (3). Lovely stroll down Langstrath from Stonethwaite, enjoyable ridge scramble, carry on to walk over Glaramara to Great End or Great Gable for more; or head down. Not a short day, mind.

Sphinx ridge into pinnacle ridge is a great day out from there. 
 

would also recommend the brimfell slabs route (route 17 in the book) very nice

Go to North Wales.

Failing that, Tarn Crag & Harrison Stickle SW face makes an OK sort-of link up.

That's a good suggestion from Borrowdale: Climber's Traverse into Sphinx Ridge with a finish up Westmorland's Crag. Top day out

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/logbook/r/?i=98

Cam Crag Ridge has also been recommended. It's impeccable - the only criticism is it's not longer 

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/logbook/r/?i=1258

To rectify that you can do a not-too-contrived linkup of Cam Crag Ridge and Intake Ridge on the other side of the fell. 

Further afield, this scrambling journey round the Coniston fells is well worth a day:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/logbook/r/?i=1230 

Go to Langdale and do one of the days out in the Cicerone guidebook. There's little walking in the link ups and the quality of the scrambling is very good. Also try a gill scramble or two, but take an old pair of socks to put over your boots.

And Glaramara itself has a lovely little scramble that brings you out right at the summit  

Halls Fell Ridge is a great way up Blencathra, once you have slogged up the lower heather and bilberry slopes - brings you right out onto the summit. You could then drop down to Scales Tarn and tackle the more exhilarating but shorter Sharp Edge.

I’ve been doing a bit of Lakeland scrambling recently, and just wondered why the routes all seem so unpopular? They are often a bit uninspired and quite contrived but it seems odd that there seem to be so few ascents. Also is it me or are the cicerone books a bit crap at describing the routes? I don’t have any issues with the Welsh routes - maybe it’s combined with the somewhat broken and forced nature of the routes?

I love the Lakes and think it is prettier than N Wales, but I'm with you that the scrambling is nowhere near as good. Like you I think the Lakes scrambling is generally contrived and the routes usually shorter and less obvious and less spectacular.

In N Wales right now and was thinking the same, we did Chasm Face yesterday and I don't think there is anything in the Lakes to rival the "big 3" on Glyder Fach.

Agreed. I've had some really confusing moments, even in gills where route-finding should be straightforward. Also had some fantastic days away from crowds too, mind.

Tryfan, Ogwen and the Glyders give such a concentrated playground for scrambling, and the Lakes can't really compete with that. But, there are some good scrambling lines if you accept Mods and Diffs into the definition and go to Scafell Crag/Pikes Crag, the Napes, Pillar, Pavey, Grey Crags, Coniston and Dow. Some of these are liable to be damp out of summer. To me, it seems people mostly do the hoary old easy ridges (Striding Edge, etc, which can't hold a candle to Crib Goch) or linkups of slightly bitty things in the Coppermines and Langdale (e.g. Stickle Gill, Tarn Crag, Pavey, Harrison Stickle), which are good days out but don't have the striking lines and sustained quality of Ogwen.

UKC logs aren't necessarily indivative of traffic, I think, as lots of hill walkers and climbers won't be logging things like Jack's Rake or The Bell or various gill scrambles.

Maybe the gills are where the Lakes excels? Delicate environments, tho, and I would be pleased to find traffic is low (excepting Stickle Gill and  Chruch Beck).

I don't think the Lakes excels at gills more than Wales - it just has more of a history of gill scrambling. There are plenty of excellent Welsh streams and gorges to be scrambled.

I think comparing the Lakes with North Wales isn't really comparing identical entities. It's a bit like berating the Lakes as a caving area when comparing it to the Dales or bemoaning the lack of 3,000-footers when comparing it to the Highlands. Now, I am biased as I've not frequented North Wales for years but to me the Lakes scores very highly on 'charm', a well-known scientific measure of how nice a place is overall. When I scrambled a lot in the Lakes, a scramble would most often be a feature in a longer day out on the fells, rather than the main object of the day. It would make sense to link up a gill, leading to a buttress which got you out on or near the tops. I don't think many folks heading up to do Belles Knott (Grade-2) would be thinking 'how does this compare with Ogwen?'. If they did then they're in the wrong game.

I much prefer the lakes as a place, it’s just more pleasant to be here in my opinion, especially if the weathers bad as there’s more to do (not saying I don’t like north wales, and I’ve spent a lot of time there - maybe I just got bored of always getting the same view as all the routes are basically in the same area). 
 

I like to go scrambling if I come up on my own which I often do due to working weird shifts, there are definitely some good routes here and I do like how the new guidebook tries to make routes linking up lots of small scrambles. The lakes is just nicer to go to solo I find, as it’s easier to just hang out in the yha or pub or go for an evening swim etc, whereas wales is so much better for scrambling.

I rarely have route finding issues in wales but in the lakes it’s often quite hard to find the route, doesn’t help that the guidebooks descriptions are very cague and don’t seem to match the rock. The lack of travel on routes seems to make things interesting too - although I do tend to take less risks here as it seems like if you get in trouble it’s going to be a long time before you see someone else.

I did Blackwars recently and found the first buttress a little confusing, I think I was in the right place but it’s always hard to tell when it’s choss and grass. Similarly just went up to the Bowfell links today and did a few routes, took me ages to find 1st Tee and I’m still not convinced- nothing felt continuous or scrambly and I couldn’t find the alleged grade 3 black crack. (Also why is pyramid ridge not in the book, that was quite nice and definitely better than some of the stuff on the links)
 

That’s a fair point - they are different places and have their pros and cons.
 

Belles knot is a nice route, great little afternoon route with the gill 

I got lost in Easdale gill last month 😂 possible due to doing after 3 days of biblical rain but could not work out where to go at all, and the description made no sense

I'm the guidebook author so take full responsibility for any confusion! It's actually really hard to describe a route in detail. If it was purely down to me, I'd have much more scanty descriptions. The main thing is to identify the start, identify any key sections and follow your nose with the aid of a topo. Black Wars is confusing. That having been said it's pretty good rock on the intial buttress with little grass and choss. 1st tee isn't that brilliant. I think that this is the little black crack - https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Archives/Lake-District-Scrambles-South/Bo... and this is the chimney on 2nd Tee - https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Archives/Lake-District-Scrambles-South/Bo... Gill was certainly in full flow when I did it in December for the guide - https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Archives/Lake-District-Scrambles-South/Be...!

Totally agree. Yes, North Wales has much more continuous rock and the scrambles more like easy rock climbs. However, for me, the Lakes has much more variety and beauty, and the gills are lost worlds to explore.

Having also written a scrambling guidebook, I empathise. What's obvious and clear to me may not be to other readers...

This is often how I go about things - get to the crag and pick a likely line. It has backfired on occasion. I still get sweaty palms thinking about Round How.

Thanks for the reply! I hope my comment didn’t come across as rude, I actually really like the books! The routes for at is really nice as gives a nice long day out option rather than having to make it up as you go.

i appreciate it most be hard to describe the routes (especially the Lakeland style routes) in a succinct and not too long paragraph. I suspect it’s mostly the nature of the routes that make it a harder to describe here as in Wales it’s pretty obvious once established on the rock, whereas the broken nature of Lakeland routes definitely makes them harder to describe.

thanks for the pics - I was not on 1st tee it seems 😂 

Blackwars for the most part was quite good, just found the first part a little confusing - I suspect due to the lack of travel - it didn’t have the usual signs of use so I was suspicious that I was in the wrong place - I did it on a wet and windy day which probably didn’t help

out of interest why was Pyramid ridge (I think that’s the name of the slabs right of the Links next to the path) not included? Seems like it would be a great addition on the way up to the links?

I always feel guide books in general could do with a better pictures of the start, I suspect it’s just a lack of space and it makes for a boring picture though. 
 

I wonder if a bullet point format would help? It sometimes can be confusing reading a paragraph mid route and trying to work out each section 🤔

I think as long as there’s a clear description of the start and any major difficulties that’s the main thing, I think finding the start can often be the hardest part of a lot of scrambles 

I got lost and terrified on the Round How scramble too

When I scrambled a lot in the Lakes, a scramble would most often be a feature in a longer day out on the fells, rather than the main object of the day. It would make sense to link up a gill, leading to a buttress which got you out on or near the tops.....

Exactly.  Last one on my first round of the Wainwrights was Great End (corny), via Skew Gill and Custs Gully. Neither long scrambles, but a grand morning out!

Most of my scrambling has been done in N Wales and, believe me, once away from the classic, well-trodden routes things get just as confusing. Ashton has led me astray over the years on Broad Gully Ridge (Pen yr Ole Wen), South Gully (Tryfan), Tregalan Couloir (Snowdon), Cwmglas Bach Spur (Carnedd Dafydd)...

OP - any update?

Weather not the best today but perhaps you got out to try some of the classic Lakes scrambles / waterfalls mentioned above?

This lady's wonderful YouTube channel (to which I have no connection) highlights a classic Lakes ghyll scramble for aficionados of the genre (I'm not one of those to put it mildly)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v_mD7dZ4SA&ab_channel=KADadventures

I mean, I agree with you. I can compare these two unique places abstractly, but the beauty of them is the chiaroscuro of accreted sensation, each memory superimposed on another, so that even the glanced silhouette of the fells on the distant skyline as I drive home at dusk can leave my heart aching.

You're right that I could have included the Pyramid Slab route. At the time I was just describing the routes on the main body of Bowfell Links and it escaped my notice that I could include this too (despite it being obvious). It's a nice way up. Maybe for a future edition!

Black Wars was mentioned in an old version of the guide but didn't get a good write up. I don't think Brian Evans went the same way as I really like the scramble. There won't be any signs of traffic as I made up the route.

I started 'proper' caving with Brian Evans in 1976 when I joined the Lancashire Caving & Climbing Club. I recall when he did a slideshow in the Black Dog, Belmont shortly before he published his first scrambles book. To say it was an eye-opener would be an understatement, especially when he showed the slide of Pinnacle Ridge that features in the frontispiece of the guide. People there were genuinely impressed that this kind of feature existed in the Lakes.

IIRC, "Pyramid Ridge" was written up by a contributor to the FRCC archive as a HS! That made me laugh no end. Grade 2 scramble? It's here on UKC: Ripple Slabs Direct (Grade-2).

By the by, I get the pun on "links" but I detest the golfing theme even more than the looseness of the rock on the Bowfell Links...

Hard Severe! Its barely Grade 2. Loose rock is part and parcel of scrambling in my view, particularly on the more exploratory lines. I love Bowfell Links. It's got some great scrambling on it. Certainly nowhere near as loose as places like Lingmell.

I get you... But, I had an experience of soloing a route with a less experienced friend... I pointed out the loose rock, but they insisted on pulling on it, nonetheless... watching them wobble up was terrifying! It was a bit of learning curve for me, too, in terms of what I recommended to people in future.

oh fair enough. I just assumed it would have had more traffic since being published in detailed in your book - and being on the UKC top ten Lakes scrambles article.

Quote from the Evans guide (1982): 'Some route finding ability is required to keep to the easy line and the upper part is somewhat exposed. A rope is comforting in places.' Quite good for a 'mere' Grade 2 scramble. I just recall being marooned on the edge of a slab with a vertical plunge of unhealthy depth a footstep away. Trying to reverse back down this slab entailed a barely controlled slither on my @rse then slinking away roundly whipped. I carried on up into the cove above and stumbled across the remains of a crashed aircraft https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5211765

I'm certainly careful on slab scrambles. It's easy to get onto somewhere a bit too steep for comfort when reversing is difficult.