UKC

Wondering if someone could give any advice on club huts?

I'm part of a University Hiking Club, and we're looking at purchasing a club hut (through the university). Does anyone know the best place to start looking for a club? I know that some clubs are starting to think about selling huts, and wondered where this would be advertised. 

If anyone has any knowledge on this topic it would be greatly appreciated. 

We'd be looking for a hut in Snowdonia or the Lake District, if anyone has any personal connections.

Thanks in advance!

YHA are or were selling hostels. I expect they may have all bee turned into boutique hotels or air bnb's by now.

https://independenthostels.co.uk/latest-yha-hostel-sale-present-a-golden-op...

For a university club with a constantly revolving membership and committee, taking on responsibility, maintenance and upkeep for a club hut would be an administrative nightmare. My suggestion would be to give the members of your club a more wide-ranging and diverse experience of climbing by booking existing huts in the different areas of the country, rather than focusing activity on just the one.

Totally agree - I have fond memories of my university mountaineering club days in the 1980's, escaping from Birmingham to various hired huts in Snowdonia and the Lakes. Taking on responsibility for a hut would mean that those weekends away could be dominated by maintenance rather than roaming the hills!

+1, plus, unlike many non uni clubs, the membership are less likely to have trade skills from their day job to maintain the building etc.. every repair would be another contractors bill. 

The BMC has a Clubs and Huts committee that would be a good place to start. PM me and I can put you in touch. 

Having said that, I do agree with other posters that this seems like a challenging and onerous project for a student club to take on. If you're looking for magnificent huts for meets in The Pass, The Lakes or Glencoe then look no further than The Rucksack Club https://rucksackclub.org/huts/ who offer great rates for full-time students. Again, PM me if you want to be put in touch.

Cheers, Dom 

I seem to remember a couple of unis have pseudo clubs made up of ex members which own huts?

https://www.ulgmc.org/huts/fallcliffe

https://www.gumclub.co.uk/clashgour/

I know that the NMC gave up their hut several years ago on the basis that members felt it kept the meets calendar dominated by Borrowdale meets.

In short, not something to be jumped into lightly, but some uni clubs seem to make it work.

I am amazed more University clubs dont have a formal link with established non University clubs in their geographical area.  The Midland Association of Mountaineers (originally established in Birmingham but now with members all over the place) has a very long and fruitful relationship with UBMC (the Stoats) going back many decades.  As with all the best relationships there is mutual benefit: we get their enthusiasm and new members when they leave Uni and join the MAM.  They get use of the huts and a network of friends when they leave Uni.  

The Mighty Clashgour which is possibly the most characterful hut in Scotland and the greatest fire risk death trap! I think it’s only ‘just about’ maintained.

Edinburgh Unis Glen Licht fell into serious disrepair due to student neglect, and they only just persuaded the NTS to let them keep tenure. Hats off to the student committee whom orchestrated the turn around.

Then we have Aberdeen Uni whom are currently losing tenure of theirs as a result of student high jinks…..another story.

Students running huts is a mixed bag at best. If you can get somebody else to pay for it, get lucky enough to find somewhere , as stated through this thread think seriously about maintenance arrangements …. Buildings need constant and often inconveniently timed attention.

I'm not sure if it's the same event you refer to, but the (decent condition AFAIK) roof got blown off Glen Licht house in a bad storm- I don't think I'd class that as student neglect! But yeah, sorting that out took a huge volunteer effort (I reckon 1000s of people-hours) as well as some significant money. It is a huge asset to the club and many generations have great memories of mountain days out, singing by the fire, and of course the occasional absolute rager. But it is also a huge long term commitment, responsibility, and for some generations it will be nothing but a liability during their 3-4 years at uni. A long term plan for continuity and maintenance alongside other club activities is a must. If you can work that stuff out and are still keen to make the commitment, then go for it!

I last stayed in it about 20 years ago and it was like a bothy. I looked through the windows about 2 years ago and it looked like a bijou holiday cottage, clearly a ton of work and several tons of material have gone into it.

Allt na G? I am intrigued if so. Been there a few times but again not for a couple of decades, great place.

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OP: I agree with the other posters who have warned against purchase. If your club is large and well established enough then you could think of leasing from an estate. Get someone who won't trigger anti-student assumptions (preferably a mature student or postgrad) to approach a landowner or more likely estate manager and have a plan.

If your club does have capacity for doing up buildings then you may find somewhere a bit run down which the estate would be grateful to have done up. My own club's hut started out like this and the estate managers like having us there, for one thing the regular parties of people staying dissuades poachers.

Bear in mind that compliance with building laws can be onerous and take up a lot more time and money that you might imagine, especially if it's going to be anything more than a free doss for you and a few of your mates.

The only other thing I'd add is to evaluate how much it would get used. It is of questionable point if it's so far away from where you live that it only gets used on public holidays and special occasions.

Good luck, having a hut is a joy.

Just to follow this up, we're a 100+ year old club. With a lot of still active alumni (40s+) that would be around to help out, not something solely or primarily run by students.

Well in that case, for the Lakes approach the NTS to see if they have any buildings that would be suitable and that they themselves are struggling to maintain/ see a use for.  

They will want to be assured that you have the technical and financial ability. You need to go to them showing you have the Uni’s full support and have  thought seriously about it. Your project team needs to have legal, financial, planning application, project management and maintenance experience, and communicate that up front.

however be warned;

a) that given the popularity of the lakes I would be amazed if anything easy to take on remains

b) The NTS is a seriously dysfunctional organisation on many levels to deal with, and much will initially depend upon local management, nothing will be decided quickly from start all the way through, so expect delays and hurdles.

c) The project will grow arms and legs, cost more than budgeted and take multiple times longer than expected. 
 

The only thing in your favour is if you are holding a big wedge of cash……large landholders are often interested in other peoples cash.
 

Though even that’s not a given. I knew someone whom is a treasurer of an organisation flush with cash whom felt it would be appropriate to donate a significant sum to the NTS, but for something that they could tell their members what would be achieved with that donation, the cash was going to come with no other strings attached and the NTS were so useless that they gave up trying to give it to them!

To answer the original question:

The BMC publishes lists of club huts. You could contact clubs with huts in the areas you are interested in and ask if they wish to sell.  

Get on the mailing lists of local estate agents.  However bear in mind that a property which is not currently a climbing hut will probably require planning permission for change of use, and this may not easily be obtained in areas where there is pressure on local housing from second homes and leisure activities.

Unless the club is a legal entity in its own right, you will need to consider how the title will be held. You say the purchase will be through the university, so presumably the uni will own the title and will hold the asset.  If the uni is a charity it may be governed by rules on buying and selling property (I believe most are 'exempt charities' but even if the Charities Act does not apply it may be subject to similar rules). 

You will probably need professional surveying advice on how much to pay, any conversion works, planning etc. The uni probably has its own advisers.  It will need a full structural survey (the standard housebuyer's report probably won't be adequate).

You may need some form of agreement between the club and the uni so everyone is clear about who is responsible for maintenance, rates etc and how these are paid for. Regulations for these places have become increasingly stric and the uni will want to ensure these are complied with. The BMC has a lot of information on running huts.

Seriously confused here.

By NTS, I presume you mean the National Trust Scotland?

The Lakes are in England.

On the club hut equation , the larger national clubs with over 1000 members have 5 to 7 huts, single hut clubs are usually at least 150 to 200 members. A lot of clubs are finding hut energy costs prohibitive.

Lots of useful legal advice being offered by the UKC collective. My impression is that occassional block booking of a hut or hostel  might be a lot less trouble.

That was the conclusion my own club (not a university club) came to some years ago when an opportunity to buy one came up. We decided the burden of maintaining it would be too much and didn't want to spend our weekends on DIY when we could be climbing. We prefer to book spaces in other clubs' huts, which also means we can be more flexible in the areas we visit.

Since then the burden of regulations has increased, along with rates, energy costs etc, which make this even less attractive.

Possibly leasing a property could be a plan. Some properties have restrictive covenants, and some landlords could be grateful to have someone like you.

Or possibly you could do a deal with a club, such as the RedRope did with the LMC. For some funding, they have a certain number of bed nights, at LMC huts, all the benefits, with non of the responsibilities 

Having said that, running a hut takes an immense amount of bandwidth of the club, ie, more time is spent talking about the hut, than arranging meets and the like, also it ties you to an area, as you have to use the hut, and it's amazing how quickly you can burn out an area.

The point about legal ownership is really important. If your club does not have the legal structure to own a property, then whichever entity is the legal owner will have a huge degree of control. There has been at least one case of a property being donated to or inherited by a uni mountaineering club, where the sports union has held the title deed. The sports union has hen sold the property for a massive profit and kept the money, and the club basically didn't have a legal leg to stand on in its attempt to block the sale.

To the OP- as mentioned before, instead of owning the property outright, a long term lease where the club is responsible for upkeep may be a better way to go.

What sort of facilities do you want this place to have? If it's a room with a roof it will be much more logistically manageable than a place with thingns like running water, electricity, gas stoves etc. Sorting out a toilet may be completely avoidable depending on where the hut is. If you need a toilet, it's going to be expensive. Composting toilets will likely be the cheapest/best option for an off-grid place, but most designs need to be mucked out every so often...

Lots to consider!

The possible drawback to a lease is that the landlord can enforce the repairing obligations, whereas if you own the freehold you have a bit more choice about what you do and when you do it. Obviously you need to preserve the value of your asset and keep it fit for purpose.

The same title issue arises - the tenant under a lease will have to be a legal entity. If this is the university rather than the club itself then the same questions about the club's position could arise. If the university decided it no longer wanted the obligations it might decide to terminate the lease when an opportunity arose, could the club do anything to prevent that?

There are lots of things to consider, and professional legal and surveying advice will be essential.

Gosh, I was under the impression that University life was financially hard work nowadays.

I keep hearing of University redundancies and students applying for hardship grants.

Are such reports false, or is the gap between the rich and the poor continuing to grow?

I'd avoid the NT though, they will always put their own agendas first, it would be a contracting nightmare.