UKC

Going to be spending two weeks near to La Plagne this Easter and really want get some ski mountaineering done with my wife. We've both done a large amoung on and off piste. Also done a fair bit of Alpine summer. Idealy we'd do a course but time and cash conspire against it.

I have tried looking for any books / articles but I can find nothing newer than Peter Hills book from 1985, I guess things have moved on a little. Can anyone recomend any any sources or books? Most of it I dare say I can work out the basics but all this stuff about glues etc etc.

Thanks in advance for any information!

In reply to Simon Wells: If you look up Doug's website (that posts on here). He has a list of ski mountaineering guide books & other simlar literature on it, you should be able to get to it through his profile page. You may find something of use or interest there. Another alternative might be to find someone on here with more experience that might be in the neighbourhood around that time & will go out with you for a few days.

Really it's not rocket science & once you can ski & have sufficient alpine knowledge including snow conditions there's not an awful lot more to know. It's definitely a skill that can be obtained without an awful lot of additional tuition. That hard part is learning how to judge snow pack & conditions.

In reply to Simon Wells: As previously mentioned http://perso.wanadoo.fr/doug.evans/booklist.htm

In reply to Frank4short:
As Frank has said, if you have experience of alpinism (summer or winter) and can ski off piste there's not a lot left to learn in terms of technique - skinning uphill is pretty obvious, kick turns won't take long to learn. The hardest skill is evaluating the snowpack and all of us are still learning there.

The best "how to book" in English is Ski Mountaineering by Peter Cliff its long out of print but you might find it second hand or in a library. If you can read French there's a couple of books I'd recomend, especially the recently published "Ski de Randonée - des premières traces aux grands raids" by Eric Delaperrière; In English Jeremy Whitehead's 'Alpine Ski-touring & Ski-mountaineering' is probably still in print and the information is good but its pretty dry as a read & not as inspiring as Delaperrière.

Have a look at the Eagle Ski Club site (www.eagleskiclub.org.uk) or maybe at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/doug.evans/ (which will be updated very soon). There was an article in Summit (the BMC magazine) in spring 2002 which you can download from
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/services/summit/backissues20on.htm

Have fun !

In reply to Simon Wells: There are also a few informative how to guides here - http://www.planetfear.com/search_articles.asp?at_id=20

In reply to Simon Wells:

I agree with the postings above that there is little to be learned in terms of actual skiing capabilities and that snowpack evaluation is key. When I started out I found 'Avalanche Safety for Skiers, Climbers and Snowboarders" by Tony Daffern very useful. In addition to that it is worth reading up on general glacier travel and crevasse rescue. I like books that are fun and has loads of pictures and the following cartoon style books did it for me -

Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1575400766/ref=pd_sim_b_2/103-5319844-9678...

The Illustrated Guide to Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893682064/qid=1137272705/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_...

Good luck

Mark

In reply to Simon Wells: I reckon the standard books on ski mountaineering are Bill O'Connors "Alpine Ski Mountaineering" Vol 1 "Western Alps and Volume 2 "Central and Eastern Alps". These guides, published by Cicerone, have an introduction to what is required, gear and technique - wise, and then details of a number of tours in the area. These are the definitive guides which most tour operators will follow, IMHO and IME.
First, you will have to define what your objectives are - mountaineering or skiing - a lot of ski touring is about finding pristine untracked powder and the other is to use skis as a way of travelling to climbs, then doing the climb, then returning. Most ski mountaineering is really just skiing with a bit of climbing, often non technical, because to climb you would have to carry a lot more gear than to ski. So skiing and skinning to the final ridge then putting on crampons to scramble up the final 50 metres. There generally won't be time for much more than this unless you are really hard core.
One way, which I would recommend, is to go on a tour with a ski touring operator such as Mountain Tracks, Pyrennean Mountain Tours, ISM, etc. and you should get a good introduction to the techniques plus the added comfort of having an IFMGA guide able to assess the snow pack and navigate in white outs. This should build confidence in going off by yourself next.
Another way might be to day tour with a guide prior to doing your own day tours, perhaps with a bit of bagging of easy climbable peaks.
I am always amazed and in awe of the areas I often find myself on ski tours and to think I could be by myself and a partner and having to be fully reliant on my own skills does concern me a bit! Once we climbed to the top and found the other side completely covered in cloud - the guide knew the way and found the traverse at the bottom of the slope to avoid skiing of the edge and falling hundreds of metres to a certain death. I too have done summer alpine stuff and scottish winter but don't feel skilled to go off without a lot more experience. Hopefully one day before I'm too old...
Ref "all this stuff about glues" - rent the gear first, glue on the skins to enable them to adhere to the ski soles, - basic. Don't know any ski touring near La Plagne but not to say there ain't.. HTH Mike

In reply to Mikek: The 2 books by Bill O'Connor are good, and the introduction would help the original poster but are far from 'definitive' - the tours they describe are all well known classics described many times before and they barely scratch the surface of the possibilities. Another book the original poster might find useful is 'Follow the sun' by Peter Seaman (sold by Cordée) which is an account of a traverse of the alps from near Vienna to Nice with lots of short sections on technique, gear, etc interspersed amongst the descriptions of each day's skiing with lots of photos.

Personnaly I'm not so convinced on the need for a guide and have rarely skied with one (although would recomend the 'stage télémark' organised by Lionel Condemine for anyone interested in freeheel ski mountaineering) but I had ski toured a lot in Scotland & Norway before I first skied in the Alps.

Not sure of any tours from La Plagne itself but there are many nearby - have a look at the IGN 1:25 000 map which shows ski itineraries

In reply to Doug: forgot to add that I've just been sent the following URL for a site advertising/selling a new book on how to go ski mountaineering, not seen the book so no idea if its any good - see http://www.freeskiing.nu/ (anyone seen the book ?)

In reply to Simon Wells: new books may not always be best...I used to do ski tours in the Silvretta and found that knowing the fine detail of snow conditions was invaluable and I got it from a marvellous thin old tome by Arnold Lunn called Alpine Skiing

In reply to Simon Wells:
"I have tried looking for any books / articles but I can find nothing newer than Peter Hills book from 1985"

Do you read Italian?
The Italian Alpine Club kindly provide their 2004 Manual (470 pages) free in PDF format.
I haven't read much of it yet, but it seems quite good.
Try http://www.scuolagraffer.it/ManualiCAI.htm

In reply to Gavin Taylor: thanks for that, any idea if there's a version somewhere that's printable ? - that version won't allow printing or copying

In reply to Doug:

Sorry, I hadn't noticed - but surely you wouldn't want to print it anyway - it would almost cost less to buy one, considering the price of ink.

The word search works, which is handy for reference.
I was simply reading my copy on screen.

In reply to Gavin Taylor: Agree I wouldn't want to print the whiole book, I just wanted to print the bibliography

In reply to Doug:

That should be easy enough - certainly is on a Mac - just hold Apple-Shift and hit "4" a crosshairs appears and you select what you want on the screen, which becomes a file on the desktop to do what you like with. Surely Windows can manage at least this ...

In reply to Mikek: Doug's recommendation of Peter Cliff's illustrated book Ski Mountaineering should be strongly supported. It is simply superb and no-one could fail to learn something from it. However, I also agree with Doug contra Mikek that a guide may not always be a good idea. There are areas of Austria where a walk to the hut, a 2hr climb on skins and an enjoyable ski down are prefectly possible guideless and the Silvretta is probably the best area of all IMHO.

In reply to potted shrimp: Would agree the Silvretta is a good choice for a first ski tour and the huts are very good but the original post was about the Vanoise/La Plagne.

Have you seen "Ski de Randonée - des premières traces aux grands raids" by Eric Delaperrière ? very much an update of Peter Cliff's approach but with more & better reproduced photos (& off course the gear sections are a little more up to date)

In reply to potted shrimp:
Hi - Well guess where I'm going this April...should be nice and easy! I'm not suggesting a guide is always preferable, just the OP seemed to be suggesting he goes off on a ski tour with, what appears, little experience. I've done stuff without guides but I'm very cautious and the prospect of getting lost, weather changing etc in the high mountains does concern me and should also concern newcomers. Books are great but only a part of it and I've found guides really helpful. Cheers Mike

In reply to Mikek: "goes off on a ski tour with, what appears, little experience"....i think there's a fallacy here about ski mountaineering, namely that if oyu are competent in the alps anyway, you need a guide to go ski mountaineering. If they are competent about alpine mountaineering (which his post suggests), then I would say they don't need a guide, as looking after yourself in the alps on skis is simply a variety of looking after yourself in the alps. But clearly they do need to read up on/practice crevasee rescue/avalanche conditions etc, but advice on the latter can always be got in a hut, and the former requires some good books and a few practice days. You don't need to pay a guide for that. But it's horses for courses, all about how comfortable they are/want to feel.