UKC

Be warned if travelling on Ryan Air that they have introduced a new rule in the last week whereby you cannot pool baggage allowance with anyone else,even if travelling together on the same ticket/voucher!

For example- 2 people travelling together with 1 bag that weighs 18kg would get charged 3kg excess baggage(current weight allowance with Ryan air is 15kg per person)
However 2 people travelling with 2 bags weighing up to 15kg each would not get charged!!
Staff at Liverpool, and presumably elsewhere, were very strict on this and charging without mercy(or Logic)!!!

(Perhaps they`re putting the money together to buy second hand gas stoves from the staff at Easyjet?)

In reply to L.A.:

why is that a scam?

In reply to mik: Do the maths! All other airlines allow pooled baggage weight for people travelling together.
I beleive that Ryan Air increased the excess baggage charge in December, coincidence?

In reply to L.A.:

its more expensive on the baggage side but still cheaper than the other airlines.
So where is the scam?

Most airlines also removed the free meal which no one hardly ate, now you have to buy it if you want food, is that a scam to?

In reply to mik:

Do you work for the airline Mik?

My advice: weigh the bags before going and redistribute if necessary.
Or, stand at the counter and sort the bags. That will really p..s everyone off, but avoid the charge.

Or is this too simple and stops a thread from becoming long and pointless?

In reply to andygb:

I dont work for the airline no. I just cant see where the scam is.

Thread is allready pointless lets see if it will become long to

In reply to L.A.:


This is actually a condition of ALL airlines (read the t/c)

Fact is most occasions the check in staff are nice enough to let it go

Instead of ranting, why not get organised and apportion weight properly between your party before you check in?

Hardly rocket science

In reply to kevin stephens: Actually it didnt affect me I was warning others of this new change in policy at the check in.
Ryan Air groundstaff were telling passengers on Thursday that this policy was introduced last week and that customers should review Terms and Conditions 24 hours before travel to see if there were any changes to the conditions.-Does anyone do this?
This new baggage policy will certainly catch out many people with excess baggage charges until it becomes better known of.

In reply to L.A.:

Thanks for the info. Flying Ryanair to Torp in March and we would have been caught out by this. I would so love to be flying with a good airline.

In reply to L.A.: I've travelled with all the budget airlines, and the only ones I've been disatified with were Ryan Air. They made me feel cheap and dirty.

In reply to L.A.: Thanks for the warning! I'm sure I'm not the only one to appreciate advice like this, despite the pedantic mutterings of the other posters. Most airlines are quite happy to pool baggage allowance (against their t&c) which most of us have got quite used to, so I'm sure this will catch a few out.

C-:

In reply to David James:

had between 3-7 kg to much the last tree times flying from Scotland-Denmark, with KLM/Sterlin (was mærsk first 2 times) and never had to pay for it.

In reply to CarolineMc:

im not muttering about the warning, im muttering about calling it a scam.

In reply to mik: Ok so perhaps it was a poor choice of word, but you were still muttering!!! No offence, eh?! C-:

Fair enough that given the T&C, "scam" is prob not the right word.

But OP, thanks a lot for the warning. This has never been a problem before and would certainly catch most of us regular fliers out.

Cheers

In reply to mtr:


i hate ryanair and will only travel with them with the penny tickets - only time they are value for money. pretty sure they are the worst of the budget airlines.

I was recently left stranded at Rodez airport in France by Ryanair because of fog. They landed the plane at nearby Carcassone airport, but where not prepared to wait for the passengers stuck at Rodez to be coached there to get the flight as it returned to the UK. The result: a full plane load of passengers completely stuck. Ryanair made no provisions for onward travel because almost every flight, from every airport in the region was full for the next 5 days!!

Make no mistake when it comes to the crunch Ryaniar will leave you in the poo.

They have now also taken over 2 weeks to send me a letter for my travel insurance confirming that they cancelled the flight.

The reason for the cancelled flight was not that planes can't land in fog, they can, but that the airport does not have the modern landing equipment that enables this. I know this is the reason that they are able to offer cheap flights, but maybe it is just best to be aware of what can happen and the fact that in this case Ryanair, made no provision for it's passengers.

T23

In reply to CarolineMc:

Oh yes i will never deny that bit

In reply to mtr: Always found ryan air excellent.

They have the best baggage handling record and shortest average delays of almost any air line in europe.

Hardly a big deal to split your bags. 1 p a flight, and people still complain!!

In reply to Tekton23: my grumble is that they sold me two tickets for a total of £500 literally 30 seconds before they closed the gates and then cancelled the flight 30 seconds after that. no refund or accommodation so night in airport. fair enough, it is in the terms and conditions but not very sporting.

In reply to Iain Ridgway: They are good 90% of the time, but when something does go wrong, it really goes wrong and reveals the innards of a company policy towards customer service that is seriously warped. It is company policy to try and trick the consumer into paying extras and fees at every stage. That is how they make their money. By tricking the un-prepared or un-informed, all I am saying is be prepared!

By the way, the statistics these airlines use are seriously flawed and about as pliable as the rope you use to climb with.

T23

In reply to CarolineMc:

Ryanair T&Cs used to be that baggage allowances on the same booking could be pooled, provided no individual item exceeded 32 kg.

In reply to L.A.:

I believe baggage weight restrictions are there to protect the baggage handlers. Over 15kg, health and safety dictates a two person lift. Perhaps you should moan about the H&SE. That should prolong this thread for a while.

In reply to CarolineMc: i agree thanks for the heads up....what does seem unfair is that (relatively) slim climbers are charged the same amount to travel as a twenty stone lump o lard? Why isn't there an excess bodyweight charge too !!!!!

In reply to pete_celf:
Because the baggage handlers don't have to carry them or get them into the hold?

It's good to have warning of this policy change, but if you know about it in advance it doesn't really seem like much of a problem.

Baggage handlers are employed by the airport, not the airline. It is ryanair that imposes the extra handling charge and tries to extract money at every possibility, I don't think they even try to justify it, doing that would draw attention and make people savvy, therefore decreasing their revenew.

I agree with charging people who take up more room, more so than paying for excess baggage. At the end of the day the extra baggage is in the hold, whereas the fat guy is usually next to me!

T23

In reply to Richard:

If that's true, then it seems that they've just changed their rules to bring themselves into line with everyone else. I always try to read the T&Cs in case there's anything unusual, and can't remember any that don't have a clause about not pooling allowances. I can't say if these are ever enforced, as we make a point of splitting weights evenly, just in case.

In reply to Tekton23:


With Ryan Air you can freely choose where to sit on the plane, so if you choose to sit next to the fat guy that's your own problem, not Ryan Air's

In reply to David James:


I would imagine that other airlines fly into Torp from your departure point, and you picked RyanAir for a reason. Presumably price?

If so, that was your choice.

In reply to pete_celf:


Yup, agree there! Our group were 10kg over with EasyJet in December, and paid up (we knew we were over and had budgeted, so no problems), but 10kg between 3 people is insignificant if you think about it. Me plus 25kg bag = 85kg. My climbing partner would be about 115kg. But you could easily have a 120kg person (or more) travelling with a 20kg bag, and paying no excess!
The sooner they weigh person plus baggage together, the better!

In reply to Iain Forrest:

Precisely Iain. You know what you get with Ryan Air. Personally I avoid them where necessary as the thought of being abondoned somewhere with The Wean doesn't bare thinking about.

Mind you, I made a killing on the shares once and went to Jordan with the profit, so O'Leary isn't all bad

In reply to Caralynr:
That is so not going to happen even though we want it to. Public humiliation on a weighbridge is not conducive to sales.

In reply to Dominion: you pays your money... totally agree, I think the very valid complaint leveled against Ryan Air is their attitude

In reply to Caralynr:


I have a feeling that airlines are getting somewhat worried about the average weight of passengers nowadays, because people are getting heavier.

This incident is about a Ferry, but you see where this is going

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4440534.stm

National trends suggest the average person now boarding a ferry weighs 12lb (5.44kg) more than they did in the 1950s, so the MAIB wanted to check if ferries were now exceeding their weight limits.

In reply to Dominion:
Don't you think their sampling method might have been a bit skewed???

"Sixty volunteers, seduced by the offer of a free pasty and a pint"

In reply to Removed User:

Hmm, if they'd wanted larger people, then 5 Big Macs and fries would have been more appropriate...

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


I remember checking before going to the Dolomites last year.

In reply to L.A.:

Thanks for the warning L.A.

Yet another good reason for not travelling by Ryanair. It's almost impossible to get the weight down for a normal climbing holiday with them anyway. Easyjet are much better. Shame they dropped the sports baggage allowance though.

In reply to Alison Stockwell:
You can phone up and book an extra sack of climbing gear for £17 'per flight segment', i.e. £34 return if you don't have to change anywhere.
This still leaves them cheaper than anyone else.
Flying from Scotland they're generally a better choice than Easyjet as you can go directly to a lot of destinations, while you almost always have to go via London with Easyjet.
I know they're not a very nice company, but they do what they do well - cheap, no frills flights with next to no customer service.

In reply to David James:

That is surely as easy as booking with a good airline !!

In reply to Iain Forrest: Both people who are in love with Ryanair are called Iain. Coinciedence...I think not!

In reply to Iain Forrest:

Thanks for warning.
I've always done ok with them - cheap and ontime. Provincial airports with just a few planes a day so no delays - bus sitting at the other end to take you into the city.

In reply to mtr:
That's right, it's a global conspiracy of Iains, stretching from Scotland to New Zealand. Be warned, there's no place to hide.

In reply to L.A.:

I agree, it is a bloody scam! We flew out to Spain under the Terms & Conditions allowing pooled baggage (I still have them printed off). When we tried to fly back we were told the T's & C's had changed and that we would have to pay for the excess weight as we only had the 1 case. They wouldn't buckle. Surely it must be illegal to change them without informing us. We would've been stuck or had to leave luggage behind if we hadn't had any cash left on us!

In reply to L.A.: As an aside - I was very surprised to find that BA beat Easyjet, Flybe, Thomson and BMI baby on their prices flying to Alicante over the summer - in some cases by over £200 return, and you get free in flight meals too (3 travellers).

I checked out various times and departure airports - their best value being from Gatwick.

They'll do anything to rake money off ya. Though who can complain with their prices. I feel gutted these days if I have to pay over 100 quid to get from Liverpool to Toulouse. Though it's still great value.
The weight thing is annoying. Maybe they should start charging overweight people extra money too. Or place an overall limit on total weight. E.g a skinny climber could carry loads of gear, even though a fat sumo wrestler has to pay extra even though all he has is his thong on. Have I just come up with a great idea.....?

In reply to L.A.:

terrible. means you cant share a bag with your partner/girlfriend etc.

In reply to theJudderman:

Of course it is illegal, you booked and that was your contract at the time. They need to pay you back, otr take them to court and report it to the relevant authorities.

T+C cannot be changed after you have booked and paid. if they say they can do that then tell them you too can do the same and wish to have a refund of all money paid as you too can change T+C in the same way. It takes two to make the contract, and they have broken it.

Regarding two people sharing a case, we have always done it as it is impossible to carry two cases and push a wheelchair. They may yet get done again if somone in my position takes them to court.

In reply to Tez29:
I had this discussion with Air France staff at Heathrow 15 years ago. They explained that in the past, passengers were weighed and charged accordingly.

In reply to SI A:


You can - you just have to weigh it out beforehand

In reply to L.A.:

I flew from Nimes to Liverpool return just before Christmas for 1 cent each way(less than 15 euros with tax) There were still people on the flight having a good moan.

The Ent

In reply to Enty:

I can see a niche market for an airline that offers both super-cheap flights AND is nice to you. Fly Smiley!

In reply to andygb:
Another little tip is that if you pack the bags wide enough they don't sit fully weighted on the scales belt thing... managed to get away with 5 less kilos this way (karimatt on the outside) bit risky though.

In reply to L.A.: The reason for this change is that RyanAir are slowly reducing the hold baggage allowance down to 0Kg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3878641.stm

If you feel hard done by, spare a thought for the blind and wheelchair bound passengers that Ryanair has denied boarding to in the past.

In reply to L.A.:

Is it just a case of you get what you pay for?
Cheap flights=Cheap service.
People shouldn't complain so much if you fly to Spain for £50 what do you expect when you cant even get a long train in England for the same amount.
Stop being cheap ass's and fly with a company with a good customer service.

Kev

In reply to Father Faff:

That would be "Broke-sometime-soon Air". Most of the world's airlines lose money.

A word of warning!!!!This forum could be at risk of legal proceedings if the glorious name of Ryanair is muddied any further.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1481489,00.html

....the result:

http://www.ryanair.org.uk/

It is true, I just had to request a letter of cancellation from ryanair after they left me stranded in Rodez, France. They only give a fax number in Ireland as a way of getting in contact, or complaining. The number is consistently engaged and even after getting through once my request was not processed, so I had to go through the whole thing again two weeks later.

Ryanair's approach is unsustainable, they will soon start to see the consequences of their flawed approach towards customer services.

T23

In reply to Tekton23:

RyanAir 2005 annual report: 19% increase in passengers and 24% increase in revenue. "Flawed approach to customer servce" - surely anyone with their eyes open knows exactly what their approach to customer service is? It seems people still like the price....

In reply to Stefan Lloyd:

Are you a shareholder?

T23

In reply to Kev on the road:

They are not that cheap. Only cheap if you book at the right time, any other time and you pay a pretty full price.

I travel with Easyjet quite regulalrly and find their customer service excellent, the staff good fun (especially a pre Crimbo flight for some climbing in Scotland, when the staff intriduced themselvesd as Tinsel, Sparklet and Bauble)

I also carry a lot of sauiling gear - CO2 cartridges for the lifejacket and nav kit and they are very accommodating at getting it stowed properly onboard.

so why do Ryan air tak such a confrontational approach when Easyjet seem to find it within themselves to be customer focussed.

In reply to John Rushby:

because they are irish?

In reply to Kev on the road: Im not complaining about the flight and certainly not the price I paid. What I am complaining about is the way that Ryan Air can apparently change the Terms and Conditions of flight from mid December when the flight was booked from
`Passengers may not use the unused allowances of others. Only
passengers
travelling within the same flight reservation may pool their checked
baggage`

To januarys
`Passengers may not use the unused allowances of others.
No pooling/sharing of baggage allowances is permitted, even when
travelling together on the same reservation. `

Without any form of notification of these changes to passengers-Whilst I wasnt affected by this many were and were having to pay extra at the check in gate-still sounds like a scam to me!
But at least a couple of thousand more people are now aware of these changes-job done!

In reply to L.A.:
The one possibility that does worry me is that they might suddenly announce they're not taking hold luggage any more. That'd scupper a few plans.

In reply to Iain Forrest:

>The one possibility that does worry me is that they might suddenly announce they're not taking hold luggage any more.

Like this?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3878641.stm

In reply to sutty:
Yeah, but that was in 2004 and they haven't done it yet.
If they do decide to do it they'll be no use for climbing / mountaineering / walking holidays any more. Fair enough if that's the way they want to go - but if they do it to people who've already booked it'll be a problem.

In reply to L.A.:

Flew to Inverness last week with EasyJet - baggage at 22.7kg (not charged any excess) and came back with BMI, again, overweight at 24.5kg and not charged any excesss. If I have one gripe though it was that due to a cancelled BA flight whose passengers transferred onto the BMI flight, took all of the sandwiches before they got around to me.!!!

Its a disgrace!

In reply to Tekton23:

On the contrary, I loathe RyanAir with a vengence. It just amuses me that people buy something that is cheap as chips and then complain they have got chips.

In reply to Stefan Lloyd:

Ahhh ok! lol

I agree I will certainly not be flying with them again, shame I had to learn the hard way.

However easyjet are cheap, but still at least try to give better service.

In reply to L.A.:

By the way did i mention I once flew with Ryanair and got that Brian guy who went on to do big brother. He used to be a steaming hostess. Steaming in terms of his campness and rudeness.
I saw him pick up a baby with 1 hand and was amazed his parent s said nothing. They were too shocked.
I had an argument with him and so he spent the rest of the journey pouring boiling water to make tea, directly above my head.
I have put a curse on him.

T23

In reply to L.A.:

Well I cant believe I am writing this but I actually had two flawless good flights with Ryan Air to Torp. Both directions it took off on time arrived early. Staff were helpful, No Baggage issue even though my main bag weighed 20kg.

I suppose it was due to happen, hope this good fortune continues!

In reply to Tekton23:

People seem to be making the mistaken assumption that we are in any way their target market. We're not. They probably wouldn't care too much if no climbers ever used their services again. Unusual/bulky/heavy hold baggage costs them more than a standard sized suitcase, and a lot more than no hold baggage at all.

In reply to L.A.:

In my opinion and not necessarily that of UKC....

You get what you pay for with Ryan Air. This is one company which is into maximizing profits at all costs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4467877.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,,1598783,00.html

One of the highest rates of staff churn around too. They are literally running out of people in Ireland who are willing to work for them.
This is not a socially responsible company. Are you sure you want to spend your money with them.

I wouldn't fly them again ever.

In reply to L.A.: Michael O'Leary's latest money spinner and there's a spin off for any host nation's taxi drivers who charge per piece of luggage, - additional holiday cost. So where a married couple had their luggage in one case before , they now have to pack two.
Any company can make rules but it is the "sneaky" way that they are introduced that causes resentment. When we booked our flights there were no "pop ups" or warnings to say that the rules had been changed, coincidental??. We have travelled with Ryanair many times and had no problems, we assumed that the rules were still the same. Anyway we had 2 cases totalling 27 Kg , 3Kg under the combined limit but as they were 17 Kg and 10 Kg respectively we were charge 2Kg x 8 Euros for the 17 Kg case. Why did we pay? Because we had arrived early and queued to be in the first 65 priority boarding. Check in would not issue our boarding cards until we had fixed our luggage, by then we would have missed the first 65. However,I'm sure Mr O'Leary passes this "windfall" money on to the baggage handlers.
This is the "people's" airline who don't accept any responsibility for anything that goes wrong on your trip because "it's low cost , what do you expect?".
This is the airline that was charging designer prices for bottled tap water, this was the airline that did not allow their cabin crew to use company power sockets to charge their mobile phones but allowed them to buy their own uniforms.
If you don't want to suffer the indignity of rummaging around in your soiled underwear in front of 180 people , heed this warning, or fly with a decent airline

In reply to L.A.:
One month ago the policy was lugage could only be pooled if the tickets were bought together.

In reply to brian wilson:
...or alternatively avoid soiling your underwear?

In reply to Iain Forrest:


He's been ice climbing and obviously pushing his limits. Give the man a break!

In reply to Iain Forrest:

They can rummage in mine, the washing is put in a bin bag to seperate it from clean stuff. Daft to mix it.

If they don't let you pool baggage, do they actually stop you pulling the heavier bag off and reassigning the luggage to the other bag? How can they? Surely this is the easy answer to this. Just pull out the extra stuff from one bag and stuff it in the other.

Or do they charge you as soon as any bag hits the scale that is over 15kg -- no matter what you do afterwards?

In which case my only idea is to say "I'm sorry that bag was 14kg when I left home. Somebody must have tampered with it. I'll have to pull it back to check it." Then I'll go away and redistribute the bags, and re check in. Any experience from those who have actually been pulled up for this?

In reply to sutty:

If you come back with any clean stuff, you obviously took too much to start with !

In reply to GrahamD:

Not true, or do you stuff your dirty skiddies into your sleeping bag or towel you have washed with.
I do have some clean clothes all the time so I can wash something and not walk round undressed.

In reply to BruceM:


Never a good plan to say someone has tampered with your luggage at an international airport!

In reply to hutchm:

I guess you're right. Best just to say I left my flying helmet in there, and I need it for the Ryan landing.

In reply to BruceM: Unfortunately redistributing doesnt help if youve got one bag of 18kg between two people!

In reply to Caralynr:

Seeing as how larger people need bigger clothes (and these will therefore weigh more) shouldn't fat/tall people get a greater weight allowance?
You could take this further and also factor in shoe size (small shoes weigh less than large ones).

This may sound silly but when it comes to taking sports gear away my luggage always weighs less than the b/f's, simply beacuse I am just that little bit smaller.

In reply to L.A.:

I actually hardly ever use RyanAir, not because they are evil but because it's nearly always cheaper to go with EasyJet or BMIBaby. Whether this is because of where I go to (usually Paris) I don't know. EasyJet usually also go to the airports nearer the cities (e.g. Charles de Gaulle rather than Beauvais) - not much use for climbing purposes but good for tourist activities.

In reply to David James:

NOt enough to pay for one though?

In reply to sutty:

On the way back from a trip, sure I'll wrap stuff in a used towel. I'll be travelling in the cleanest clothes I have left. The sleeping bag is in a stuff sack so thats already taken care of.

In reply to L.A.: New Ryan Air changes from March 16th

Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline today (Wednesday, 25 th January 2006) announced details of its next revolution in European low fare air travel. From the 16th March, Ryanair will introduce a number of key service improvements for all passengers including (1) all Ryanair’s fares will be reduced by 9% (£2.50 or €3.50), (2) all passengers travelling with hand luggage and in possession of an EU passport will be able to check-in on the web at www.ryanair.com and by-pass all check-in and airport queues, (3) these passengers will also be given priority boarding which will also eliminate boarding gate queues as well, (4) for bookings after 16th March, Ryanair is increasing each passenger’s luggage allowance from the current 25kgs to 30kgs (comprising 10kgs carry-on and 20kgs checked-in luggage) which will substantially reduce excess baggage fees and finally (5) all passengers travelling with checked in luggage who book after 16th March will now pay a fee of £2.50 (€3.50) per bag, per flight if booked in advance on the website, or £5.00 (€7.00) per bag, per flight if presented unbooked at the airport.

In reply to L.A.:

Excellent news!

Now even more tw*ts with laptops and massive hand luggage that there is nowhere to stow properly.

I've never flown Ryan Air, but am very familiar with other airlines

In reply to andygb:

We did that at the counter last time...or started to and they said not bother and added them all up. They weren't going to originally though.

Their luggage weight allowance is pathetic and if I had the choice of another low cost airline to Oslo Torp I would have used it.

They are taking the p***

In reply to BruceM: Just weight yourself and then yourself AND your luggage and take off the difference at home on your bathroom scales before you go...simple!

If you are still over...then being extra nice to the check-in girls usually does the trick!

In reply to CarolineMc:

No actually EXCELLENT choice of word.

The problem is people have receipts stating that they are allowed to pool their allowances. The rules changed early in January. No one was advised, and people with valid bookings who had agreed to terms and conditions saying they COULD pool were being told at the airport they could not.

Sorry, but telling two people travelling together whose terms say they can pool their allowance and who turn up with one bag between them that they have to pay is a money-making SCAM.

I have paid for my ticket, including 15kg of luggage allowance. It actually costs the airline more to handle two bags rather than one.

In reply to JimBean:

I agree with your general point about changeing the rules on you after issuing you with your terms and conditions but:

1) The airline does not handle the bags - a seperate company does that.
2) I think 20kG is the maximum legal weight for a safe 1 man lift so, no, 2 x 15kG bags are cheaper than 1 x 30kG bag.

In reply to GrahamD:

But the arline pays the baggage handling company based on the amount of bags handled.

The health and safety regulations stipulate a maximum of 32 kgs per bag for safe lifting. Therefore a bag weighing 30kgs is acceptable.

In reply to L.A.: Thanks for this, I'm flying with my daughter, so I'll make sure she carries the crampons.

In reply to L.A.: Thanks for the tip . I was not aware of that . I,m off up to Scotland at the weekend and we would have put everything in one bag.

In reply to Tig Smith:
So you dont read the terms and conditions?

In reply to mik: T+C were changed without informing passengers!!
Terms and Conditions of flight from end of December when many people booked flights ....

`Passengers may not use the unused allowances of others. Only
passengers
travelling within the same flight reservation may pool their checked
baggage`

To januarys
`Passengers may not use the unused allowances of others.
No pooling/sharing of baggage allowances is permitted, even when
travelling together on the same reservation. `

In reply to mik:

Good to see your still continuing it!!

In reply to L.A.:

Cheap airline? Just went to website to see how cheap and EMA to Murcia going tomorrow for a week is £271.90, not exactly cheap when you see the T+C.

As said elsewhere, T+T apply at the time you book, no changing them half way through the trip. Otherwise they could say you have to pay the cost of the flight calculated on the day you fly, not the one you booked and paid for.

If you have paid excess for a return jourmey booked before the T+C changed then claim it back, or contact trading standards for advice on suing for it.

In reply to mik:

That's just it. I DID read the terms and condtions. They said I COULD pool. When I got to the airport, they said they had changed the T&Cs (I had not been informed, and anyway, why should they be able to change the contract unilaterally?) and despite it saying in black and white on my booking that we COULD pool our allowance we were made to pay excess baggage.

Sorry mik, you are on a loser on this one. It is a scam and a ripoff.

In reply to JimBean:

It is NOT a rip off, it is breaking the law and you can claim it back as I said. Just do it, trading standards will be interested anyway.

In reply to sutty:

Well ripping people off is a form of law breaking. Claim it back? HA! That's what they are banking on. They will ignore you if you write to them, and people aren't going to take them to court for a few Euros. Not worth the time and hassle. So the scammers at Ryanair know they will get away with it.

In reply to JimBean:

That is the point, they rely on you doing nothing but moan. Contact trading standards or shut up and suffer. if you do not plan to do anything it is your fault for letting conmen into your wallet.

As a matter of fact I am a bit short this week, send me the same as you gave Oleery.

In reply to sutty:



I'm not moaning. I have reported them to Trading Standards in Essex, but I'm also warning others. Ryanair are ripoff merchants and scam artists. If you fly with them, be prepared to be taken for a ride in more ways than one!

In reply to JimBean:

"Ryanair are ripoff merchants and scam artists."

Totally agree BUT (and heres the BIG problem) every thing they do is perfectly legal!!!

P

In reply to JimBean:

I am very curiuos, why they dont allow us to carry 30 kilos. Is it because they are cheap and they regard us as cheap as they are.

Do they use extra fuel to carry our weights?
Please make my self clear on this, any one.....

thanks

In reply to Fami:

ofcourse they use fuel to carry you weight.
You thought they used fairy dust to make the planes fly?

In reply to mik: Did anyone see the article yesterday (I think either the Herald or Guardian )about Ryanair publicicity in Norway where they advertised flights to London-Prestwick ?

In reply to Iain Forrest:
Iain et al - You are all aware, aren't you, that you can book a sports bag with Ryanair with no stated weight limit (though there are limits !) for £17 per leg. I.e £34 return for a ski bag stuffed with whatever. It beats £5 per kilo if you really, really, really can't manage to get within the 15k limit

In reply to L.A.:

In reply to a number of comments, its a scam because if, as they did to us, they change the rules after you booked, its an illegal breach of contract. If they did not notify you of this illegal breach until you reached the airport. If you could have taken an extra bag and easily come under the limit if you had known. If as a result they in effect stole £33 of your money.

Its a scam because you can't weigh you luggage before you come home, so even though a family of 4 can easily travel with less than 60kg, if they have only 43kg, say, to divide between 3 bags, there is a good chance one will be over. So its just a scam to get more money from you for no good reason. The worlds most profitable airline - is it any wonder.

Just remember, Ryanair can and do change the terms of your contract without care or consideration for your legal rights, their moral and legal obligations, your holiday or any other thing. You may have hundreds or thousands comitted on the back of that £25 return ticket. Ryanair don't give a damn about that.

If you fly and don't get stitched up, then you got a bargain, but more and more people are being caught out and left out. Your choice.

In reply to Scratch:

Anyone see this tonight?

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/R/ryanair_caught_napping/index.html

In reply to sutty: Michael O'Leary is a very tough man, he has made Ryan air, super successful and the pros outway the cons, so far. O'Leary is a very spiteful man, good buissnesman like.

In reply to mac_climb: He's a very nasty man, he doesn't fly anyway good from the airport 5 miles from my house

In reply to GraemeA at home: Yeah, O'leary not the nicest, but to be fair to your man, the airline industry has been very 'cut and thrust' over the last 5 years, since 9/11, he has to safe all the pennies. I remeber and im only 16, being on a Air Canada flight to Canada from Britain, and the back quarter of the plane being empty. You wouldn't get that know would you. A bit of bad PR for Ryan Air, hasn't but most people off.

In reply to mac_climb: Not doubting you but I live less than 5 miles away from Manc airport and Ryanair hardly fly from there. Time is money so getting to Stanstead costs a lot. And money is money so getting to Stanstead costs a lot. If he flew to, say, PCG from Manc or even Liverpool I might like him and use him more. As it is I have to spend 4-6 hours getting to Stanstead (and petrol/parking on top) so I will stick with more 'expensive' flights.

In reply to GraemeA at home: but how much money can he make out of manc, at the moment not much if ryan air aren't flying from there.

In reply to L.A.:

After watching The Channel 4 prog last night I can honestly say I will never use Ryan Air. Fair enough they use some very ruthless tactics to get your money. But to me, security and basic hygiene are big factors when I fly.

Also the fact that the pilot refused to give an aircraft full of people any comp food or drink after 3 hrs on a runway in Mallorca was disgusting. The spineless captain was pathetic when confronted by one of the passengers.

I know some people cant afford to fly any other way, but Ryan-Air are compromising your safety big style. Why take a risk?

In reply to Pacific: I saw the programme and to be honest I thought there was little of substance in there. The only thing that was actually concerned me slightly was the issue of whether an escape chute was serviceable or not (which was unclear in any case). Other than that:-
Some kid's puke on the carpet- big deal, I would rather have a faint smell of vomit in my seat than be bumped off the flight to hang about in Beauvais or somewhere for 48 hrs.
The captain wouldn't give out free drinks, fair enough, surely everyone knows that Ryanair are incredibly grippy.
The stewards sometimes fall asleep - good stuff, less time for them to try to flog overpriced sandwiches, scratchcards and other crap.
The lifejackets weren't checked. Is there a recorded case of a large jet airliner succesfully ditching on the sea? How long would you last in the North sea in your shirt sleeves if you did get out?
Ryanair work their staff like slaves. Up to them, if they stick within legal time limits. I have no idea why anyone would want to be a Ryanair steward but plenty of people seem to fancy it. If they are ever short of applicants maybe they will improve pay and conditions.

In reply to GraemeA at home:

The reason the main cheap airlines don't fly from Manc (I live within 5 miles of it too!) is apparently because the airport wouldn't let them, not because they didn't want to. I think they didn't want to be associated with the downmarket image or something. They've partially relented since with bmibaby and jet2 etc.

In reply to mac_climb: There's plenty of other low budget airlines fly from Manc (I got £50 return to Barca). I've flown once with Ryan air...they were shit and I wouldn't use them again.

In reply to Lewis climber: It also occurs to me that Ryanair management will be hunting down every one of their staff who made negative comments on the programme and giving them the bullet. No doubt said individuals will be grateful to Channel 4 for liberating them from the burden of employment!

In reply to Pacific:

The spineless captain will have been following company policy. You don't make any profit from the fares that Ryan Air charge if you give away anything for free under any circumstances.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Thats the point. If people want to be treat like a cattle fair enough.

Surely when people are in a situation that is out of there control you would expect some duty of care....I mean fair enough Ryan Air is great when there are no delays or problems but as soon as the shit hits the fan they dont give a toss..

In reply to Pacific:

I did not think the captina was spinless, he was in a situation where he had no control - he had to obey the draconian Ryanair policy. It must be soul desxtryoing being in such a postiion of responsibility but emasculated by some pen wielding twunt over in Dublin.

In reply to John Rushby:

So how cheap is this?

Just done a search for a flight Blackpool- Girona leaving Fri and returning following Fri, total cost inc taxes £211.90.

Not really cheap then for late booking, in fact dearer than most others and crap service and luggage facilites.

In reply to Pacific:


The passengers were offered drinks; water. Ryanair may have a duty of care, but it shouldn't be expected to provide more than the very minimum. Service is somthing that you have to pay for.

Mark

In reply to Anonymous:
Service is somthing that you have to pay for.

and on that bombshell, the British hospitality industry lurches closer to oblivian. Service is the most powerful marketing tool a business has.

In reply to John Rushby:

The budget airlines all seem to think that price is more powerful. And the great British public seem to agree.

In reply to John Rushby: I have flown on many different Ryanair routes over the last few years and I can't say I particularly enjoy it, but as it is a means to an end I take a stoic view of it all. The bottom line is that they usually take you where you want to go. On the one occasion my flight was cancelled (circs outwith their control) the fare was paid back into my bank within a few days, no further hassles. Older people often find the service unacceptable which is fair enough, they come from a generation where buying an air ticket meant you were Billy bigtime and having your arse kissed was part of the package.
If there is another option on the route I want to go which is cheaper of course I will go for that - I have no particular brand loyalty to RA, and indeed I quite enjoy a "free" G&T if it doesn't cost £50 extra. However in so many cases there is no cheaper alternative, or indeed no alternative at all (admittedly because RA have forced other airlines out e.g. Glasgow - Brussels).
Finally on the cleanliness point, if you compare with long distance trains RA are not bad at all, I mean I have never been on a RA flight where the floor is awash with urine.

In reply to John Rushby:


No, but it is a powerful tool. Another is cost. Of course you would be foolish not to provide the best possible service that your prices allow but it would be equally foolish to provide the highest level of service regardless of cost.

Some customers don't care about cost, but want to be comfortable and well looked after. Others care only about paying the least possible amount. You can't blame Ryanair for providing the customer with what they want!

Mark

In reply to Anonymous: I think stuff like refusing passengers free drinks, and Michael O'Leary making pronouncements about how disabled people etc will not get a red cent out of him, are actually good marketing in a perverse way. To the customer whose overriding priority is price, of whom there are many, these things may be taken as a demonstration that Ryanair as a company is 100% obsessed with saving money in any way possible, thus (theoretically) passing on savings to passengers. Of course you could also take the view that this is a crock of, but it has to be said that no other airline can compete with RA's extreme pennypinching, almost a USP I suppose.
The persona of Michael O'Leary is also brilliant. It is unlikely that he is so obnoxious in private life but you never know...

In reply to marie: I fly between Madrid & London quite a lot and easyjet is hardly ever the cheapest. Especially when you take into account the cost of being dumped in Luton.

I nearly always fly Iberia which is fine if you don't mind being treated blithe indifference.

In reply to sutty:
I wouldn't buy the ticket then if I were you, Sutty.
I have had a nice weekend in sardinia for £26 before now, trip to Zaragoza for about £25 a head and the family of four is off to the tatra (via Bratislava)on Monday for £154 return all in. I'm sure I could have found more expensive tickets if I'd wanted but funnily enough I didn't.

In reply to All since yesterday night:

I'm quite amazed that what seems to bother people most on here is the fact that you don't get any service on these flights.
What I found appalling were the facts that staff was unable to perform safety and security check adequately due to the 25 min turn arounds and the terrible working conditions. For the first point, I can't wait until Ryanair implement their online check-in policy so that anyone can fly through security control without having to open their passport. I'll take first seat to see a RA plane crashing into Canary Warf.
As for the second, it's a good explanation as to why RA staff always seemes p*ssed off. And a stewardess asleep on the job is no big deal. When it's the pilot that needs to take a nap but can't or he'll get fired we'll all be thankfull to only have payed 1p for the privilege to fly with him.

It's a very clever company. Their policies are squeeky clean. Always ticking all regulation boxes. But they don't give the time to their staff to physically implement them (or they get demoted, or fired). If you report an issue (such as too short a time for controling passenger ID), I can easily imagine you get into trouble. So no-one records problems, and they can say hands on heart that they aren't aware of any.

I flew ryanair, but felt dirty. a bit like shopping at Asda.

A.-

In reply to ArnaudG:

For lots more views of Ryanair see this site, it also lists other airlines and views on airports;

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/ryan_1a.htm

In reply to ArnaudG:

Why would such a terrorist be bothered about providing a valid passport? Even if they can't get one forged, it's not going to matter to them whether or not the authorities find out who they were afterwards.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I see where you're going there. Nevertheless, in the situation depicted in the program, you don't need to bother with forging anything even if you booking an airplane ticket sets alarms of at MI5. You only need to find a ryanair passanger, knock him/her on the head and walk onto the plane.

A.-

In reply to ArnaudG: You can currently check in on a BA flight with a credit card. As long as you've got an electronic ticket (ie bought it online) then all you need to do is put a credit card that's in the same name as the ticket into the machine, press a couple of buttons and that's you ready to go to security. You can even do it if you've got lugage to check into the hold as it just prints out a token that you take to one of their fast track desks.

I don't know the details of Ryan Airs proposed electronic check in system but I can't see it being much different to the systems already offered by some of the better airlines.

In reply to all generally;

My concern is that this programme, in its naivety, only scrached the surface. By exposing poor practice, but concentrating too much upon the poor service, serious safety critical matters were glossed over; this will be easily overcome by MOL in his usual robust (obnoxious?) way.

I have little doubt that RA's training (contracted out by the way) and Operations standard practices are written to be entirely within the guidelines and rules laid down by the IRISH Aviation Authority, and hence the statutes and regulations laid down by ICAO, the international Aviation Authority. However, and this is a big however, all those within the industry have long questioned exactly how RA staff can complete all the mandatory tasks between flights in only 25 minutes. (EasyJet are a different case as they have different staffing levels and contract out some of the turn-round tasks which RA leave to their already overworked staff (cabin-crew)). The answer is of course they don't - the higher management know full well that important safety corners are being cut by their staff on the line, but get away with hiding behind their statements that their Operating Procedures all adhere to the highest of regulation standards. One has to then question why the Irish Aviation Authority has been so toothless.

For example;
1. On International flights, ALL passengers ARE to produce a valid passport at check-in, security AND the boarding gate - RA have no latitude; so why aren't all passports being checked? Why aren't they brought to book by the Aviation Authority?
2. A complete security sweep of every nook and cranny within the aircraft IS to be carried out before EVERY flight. On most airlines, this is done by specialist staff from a security company, usually BAA's - obviously, RA have decided to do this themselves, knowing full well that it gives them another corner to cut.
3. All CIVILIAN airline companies ARE to have a Minimum Equipment List (MEL) which applies to each individual airframe. So for example, if a door had a pressure cylinder inadequately pressurised, the MEL would tell the Captain and his First Officer whether or not they could take the aircraft with fare paying passengers - it may allow the trip if only one door is unserviceable, as long as there are no more than a certain number of people AND the door is marked up as being unfit for use and blocked off with bright signs and dayglo tape. This decision can ONLY be made by the Captain, but only if he's informed.
4. Regardless of moral and duty of care issues, airlines are mandated to minimise risks of infection and are required by law to contain any such infection discovered whilst airborne on board after landing. The implications of flying with passengers on an unhygenic aircraft which has either litter or human vomit openly exposed are obvious.
5. Long-haul airlines have a very strictly controlled regime of managed "crew-rest" before, during and between trips. Short-haul are notorious for working their people hard. RA have a dreadful reputation for discretely working their people beyond the legal limits and punishing those who raise their hands in a way that British employment law would not permit. Being on an aircraft where sleeping Cabin Crew (CC)have reduced the numbers of on duty personnel to below the required minimum is illegal because it is unsafe. It is a little known fact that the prime reason for CC on a passenger aircraft is to satisfy ICAO safety regulations; to get the passengers safely off in an emergency evacuation, to fight fires on board during flight; to provide first aid assistance - the service requirement is added by the airline. If they are asleep, then the law is being broken BY THE AIRLINE who are working its people too hard, regardless of the stats they can produce to show rules unbroken.
5. The majority of pilots at RA feel emasculated and the CC feel like undervalued slaves who are pressurised to cut corners. There will always be those who disagree with my generalisation, no doubt. But think of this. Do you really want to fly on an aircraft run by an airline that charges its applicant pilots £50 merely to read their CVs and more money to be interviewed, where the pilots and CC have to provide their own packed lunches during a potential 14 hour, 6 sector (trips) day, where their staff have to pay for their own training courses - the pilots have to pay for their conversion to aircraft courses and are further punitively bonded to the airline for up to three years. They even have to pay parking at some of their bases.

The above list is outlined simply to create my case that safety within an airline should be a culture, not a list replicated from regulations. Can any of us say we saw anything last night, even in that superficial programme, which gives us cause to think that RA puts its passengers safety above profits.
I've been in the business for over 20 years - and have never flown with RA specifically because it is my belief that they are institutionally unsafe. Indeed, I recently pulled my son from a forthcoming school trip when I found out their plans were to fly RA.

In reply to mik:

The estimation of the amount of fuel needed in a flight is in the order of tonnes, so a few kilograms here or there is not going to make any difference to the cost

In reply to BIgYeti86:
still need fuel to carry the weight.
Or do you believe in fairy dust to?

In reply to BIgYeti86:

200 passengers x 5 kg extra = 1 tonne

I dunno what the weight of a fully laden 737 is, but I guess adding an extra tonne to the total payload will probably add another 1% to the fuel cost for a typical flight, so you can see where Ryanair is coming form on this one.

You gets what you pays for, and you pays your money and takes your choice.