UKC

Wonder if anyone can help here. I washed my Berghaus Mera Peak XCR about three months ago in the washing machine with non-bio powder. I know okay, first rule of Gore-tex - dont do this, but it did say on the label 'Do not use BIOLOGICAL washing powder' so I assumed.....

Anway I digress, I realised my mistake when the DWR surface was really crap, so I sprayed it (twice) with TX Direct as per the instructions on the bottle.

Having done a couple of days up the mountains of Wales in March, it still seemed pretty crap.. In fact when wearing it with a fleece it 'wetted through' after a couple of hours though I remained dry under the fleece (is this just sweat or condensation on the inside?) despite this.

Is it best to rewash this with a TX wash-in?

Any advice appreciated..

In reply to Lightweight_2005: ha ha

In reply to lewis: Prick

In reply to Lightweight_2005:

Try a couple of washes with tech wash then reproof, it helped with mine!!

In reply to Lightweight_2005: Or more helpfully; I'd tx direct, then tumble try on the coolest setting. That seems to sort the water repellency. If the actual gore-tex is damaged then the water resistance (as opposed to water repellency) will never really come back sadly.

In reply to Lightweight_2005: Only having a bit of fun!

In reply to smithy: definatly. before you reproof (with tx direct) you first need to wash out the detergent residues from the fabric. so wash with tech wash or pure soap, possibly more than once. Then TX direct wash in, and tumble dry to reactivate the DWR coating.
good luck!

In reply to lewis: No problems dude, I did the tumbledry thing and though it repaired the DWR outer, it still wetted... Have e-mailed Berghaus but they havent responded

In reply to ceri: So if I TX wash in theres no need to do the DWR TX direct thing also? Having chatted with a guy in Ellis Brigham he said that preference should go to the direct treatment as opposed to TX wash-in as it would retain better breathability...??

In reply to Lightweight_2005: not sure exactly. some shop dudes nknow a lot, others not so much. try nikwax directly if worried!
http://www.nikwax.co.uk/en-gb/index.php

In reply to ceri: Thanks for all your input everyone, much appreciated

In reply to Lightweight_2005: I suppose theres no harm in doing that, but I reckon you want the maximum waterproofness, so id tx-direct.

Ps remember to wash out the powder/conditioner despenser as-per the instructions.

In reply to smithy: Agree. Don't most washing powders have a wetting agent which can be retained? Tech wash (or pure soap powder) then reproof. Should work.

In reply to lewis: I did this with just water prior to reproofing with TX direct, but I guess I can try the tech-wash, Wash-in, tumble dry method and then if necessary put a DWR over the top...

Thanks again

In reply to Lightweight_2005:

It's very simple:
1) Clean out washing machine of all gunk from detergent tray - if you want to be pedantic, run a half-load cycle with a couple of towels in it and no detergents to really clean it out.
2) Wash garment with Nikwax Tech wash/Grangers/etc equivalents - make sure it's rinsed thoroughly.
3) Hang garment out to dry.

If the DWR coating is just dirty and not worn out, then skip the next 3 steps.

4) Hang the garment up and spray with TX-direct spray-on. Make sure the whole thing is evenly coated, paying particular attention to the high-wear areas (shoulders, arms and back).
5) Wipe off any excess with a clean, damp rag.
6) Leave it to dry.

7) Tumble-dry the garment at a warm setting for 10 mins, or so. Goretex can be boiled, but other fabrics used will have much lower melting points, so use your judgement. No point using a cool setting, as it's the heat that's required - just don't melt it!

Job done.

Don't use anything other than TX-direct/equivalent to wash it, as other detergents like Persil will take the DWR coating off, even if they are non-diabolical. I don't rate pure soap flakes (eg: Lux), as I live in a hard water area and it then needs loads of rinsing to get the residue off.

In reply to Lightweight_2005:
Agree with all the posts re: washing in soap/techwash and reproofing.
The other possibility is that it's actually sweat on the inside of the jacket rather than it wetting out. Sadly Goretex isn't the wonder breathable membrane the adverts would have you believe.

In reply to Lightweight_2005:

Pretty much the same as everyone else, but on the Nikwax site they suggest using TX-Direct wash-in for XCR rather than the spray. Don't know what difference it makes. Arcteryx also suggest double rinsing before drying etc.

If you generally work up a good sweat when you wear it it could be vapour build up inside the jacket.

Lippy

In reply to lippy lion: Has anyone seen the article in this months Trail magazine about treatments for restoring DWR? It suggests and the Leeds Uni test laboratory agrees that Comfort Pure Concentrate is just as repellant and lasts 60% as long, of course it is April, would they consider the joke worth hundreds of people wrecking their expensive Gore-Tex worthwhile?

In reply to Lightweight_2005:

sack it off and get a decent soft shell... and a marmot precip for £60 for really bad weather

In reply to Lightweight_2005:

It seems your problem is that you applied TX Direct BEFORE you removed all of the detergent residue.

Please, everybody, if you put this stuff on your clothes it will seal in whatever is on the fabric: FOREVER. Often, this is not a good thing.

There is a strong possibility that this particular jacket is now junk.

Bearing that in mind, you have little to lose. This is a last ditch plan.

Try washing it a couple of times, more aggressively than you would normally wash Gortex, in the hope that this will wash off the layer of TX that is sealing in the detergent residue. I am thinking in terms of non-bio with an overdose of detergent. (If you have any scrap woollens handy chuck them in the machine along with the jacket to help abrade the unwanted TX layer.

You then need LOTS AND LOTS of rinsing (I always do an extra rinse cycle before reproofing anyway). Once you have rinsed it in the machine, test it. Put the jacket on and get in the shower. If the jacket has very patchy areas of wetting-out and repellancy then it hasnt worked and you will have to retire it to the dog-walking collection. If it wets-out evenly and shows no patchiness or signs of soapy bubbling then it is probably ready for a new coating of TX wash-in.

Before doing the wash-in cycle with the TX Direct, be sure to take the precautions stated above about cleaning out the detergent drawer. Running a short rinse cycle on an empty machine help clear thing out too.

I can't write you a guarantee for this idea but after 2 decades of Goretex care and plenty experience of explaining this stuff in an outdoor shop its my best shot. (I have a 1989 Berghaus Trango Extreme that looks like new and is still OK for summer stuff so I must be doing something right.)

In reply to harry1969:
Yes, I saw that and you neglected to mention that conditioner is way cheaper than the high tech stuff. It has certainly been my impression that DWR wears off disappointingly quickly , especially any after the original one. I just wonder if I can be ***d to reproof that often. As far as I understand it wetting out doesn't make the thing leak, just makes it less permeable to vapour?

In reply to pog100: "As far as I understand it wetting out doesn't make the thing leak, just makes it less permeable to vapour? " - Correct, but it may mean you get soaked by condensation which can't escape due to the film of water on the outer surface of the Gore-Tex!

In reply to Jim Fraser: Considering this jacket took a good pasting in foul weather in March on a few occasions (after I washed it with non-bio), I think it has had a lot of rinsing since. I did TX direct it again following the last trip in March, and I must say that when I recently came to clean it with the tech wash I tested it in the shower and it was way better than before anyway (like water off a ducks back, had trouble getting the fabris to 'wet').

Anyway heres an update, washed it with tech wash (twice) and then used TX direct spray on after (Nikwax says TX wash-in comes recommended for goretex, but the goretex website says otherwise, work that one out!!!).

Yet to tumbledry it, but will try the shower test following that and will post results.

I actually think your post here Jim is a little strong, based upon my 'research' DWR can be washed out (as in the first instance of me using detergent) so it wouldnt seal in the wetting agents permanently. DWR is a surfactant so it doesnt actually penetrate the fabric layer, it sits on the surface and repels water. The only way you can actually 'knacker' a goretex jacket is by wrecking the membrane (not the outer fabric as described here), and from my chats with the goretex guys this takes some doing apparently. The fact that I washed with non-bio doesnt make this a particulalrly bad case, as it is the stronger biological detergent formulas that can do permanent damage to the membrane. So the alarm bells you have rasied here about my jacket now being 'Junk' seem a little alarmist.

Tried the 'ald shower trick this evening and what a sight I must have been! Goretexed to the eyeballs and with my mountain boots on I took a ten minute cold shower... Good job no one walked in on me as theyd have thought I was taking my love of the outdoors a little too far

Good news though, the jacket is fine, beading off water really well and not wetting out at all. Although it was a little cold, I didnt get wet at all in there. lol...

So thanks for all who replied here, maybe this might serve as a good example of what to do if anyone else makes the same dummy mistake I did and puts their jacket in the wash...

I guess the final test would be a pi$$ing wet April day up the mountains, but I now have my faith restored..

In reply to Lightweight_2005:

I think there is some consistency between my post and the experiences detailed in your update. I was attempting 'emphatic' rather than rude.

I hope your jacket keeps you dry for years to come.

(I have gone back to Ventile.)