UKC

this is my list of what i am intending on taking including food and what i am wearing. the intention is to walk in and bivi beneath the route. climb the route in a day and bivi by the rochfort arete. taking the bubbles across the midi the next day. items indicated with a * are shared betwen the team. all other item are personal. any sugestions of what should be added and removed?

Clothes - wear
Trango S boots
Socks and liners
short gaiters
scholler pants
base layer top and boxers
driclime top
beanie hat
thinny gloves
buff
glacier glasses

Clothes - extras
micro puff jacket
waterproof top and bottoms
drytool gloves
powerstretch gloves
buffalo mitts
balaclava
sunhat
spare socks
rock boots*

Hardwear
alpine axe and hammer
12 ponit crampons
bod harness
helmet
magic plate + 2 HMS
3 prussiks + krab
2 60m 8mm half ropes*
1-6 superlight rocks + extra 4 and 6*
7-10 of wallnuts + extra 8*
pink tricam
2 krabs for racking*
3-8 rockcentric + krab*
1.5 2.5 3.5 cams + 3 krabs*
8 60cm slings*
12 krabs*
4 revolvers*
3 120cm slings + krabs*
2 HMS*
2 ice screws*
1 blade 1 angle 1 LA + krab*
abe tat*
tat made bandolier*

Bivi gear
1 season sythetic bag
sleeping bag cover
2 person boothy bag*
pocket rocket*
titanium pan*
pan handle
heat exchanger*
4 lighters*
spoon
35 litre roll top sack
2 gas standard gas canisters*
myo XP head torch
minimal first aid kit*
loo paper*
ion torch*
3 piece karimatt stored in a sleeve in sack
2 litre platypus

Food

Walk accross
peanut M+Ms

First Bivi
couscous + powder sauce + energy drink powder mixed in.

Breakfast
1 musli bar and 1 hot ceral start (just add hot water)

Climbing food
M+Ms, boiled sweets, sausage, 1 block of marzipan

Evening food - couscous + different powder sauce + energy drink powder mixed in.

Breakfast - muslie bar and hot ceral start

emergency 1 block of marzipan*

In reply to The Great Pretender:

I'd start by eating the marzipan.

In reply to The Great Pretender:


Your missing a copy of Men Only from your kit list.

In reply to The Great Pretender:
i would say that your packing far too much stuff.

only take one hat and one pair of gloves total. don't take any other clothing other than a waterproof jacket and your warm bivi jacket. cut the rack in half, ditch the pitons and the tricam etc. 4 lighters is way excessive.

ditch the sleeping and bivi bag completley. just take a warm jacket and a bothy 4 for you and your mate. get rid os the waterproof trousers.

just my 2p

james e

In reply to James Edwards: Agreed, it would be difficult to get all that in a 35l sack.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

On the hardware side we had something like:

3 x 4ft slings
3 x 8ft slings
6 x quickdraws
6 x krabs for slings
4 x screwgates for belays
Rocks 1,3,5,7,9
Friends 1.5, 2.5 (with krab each)
2/3 x Large nuts/medium hexes on line (with krab each)

Cannot remember if we took pegs or not, we certainly didn't take ice screws as it was quite dry that year (1983). The Rock and Run website used to have a list of classic routes along with recommended gear list but I can't find it now.

boB

In reply to James Edwards:
oh and get a super light ski tour axe (350g) and a pair of super light alloy ski touring crampons. you should only need one axe on the walker.

take a pair of rock boots, you'll move much faster on anything harder than vs.

one item i would take in addition would be a camera.

james e

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Why take a balaclava and a beanie hat? use the balaclava folded as a hat.

Ditch the sun hat and use the buff in combination with the balaclava or just the buff on its own.

Why not ditch the cams and take more tri cams? Lighter etc...

Revolver crabs are heavy and prob not really needed.

4 pairs of gloves?

For someone who was preaching to me the advantages of using a 30ltr sack and traveling light you seem to have alot of heavy and un-needed gear with you. I'd also like to see you get it into a 30ltr sack.

In reply to The Great Pretender:


I would ditch the platypus and go for an echidna instead.


I am fascinated by what type of emergency you might be anticipating: shot-gun wedding cake decoration?

Ok i've removed alot of the crap


Camera (digital)

In reply to The Great Pretender:

I know someone whose emergency supply was dog food to avoid the marzipan effect.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Jesus!! How many sherpas do you need to carry that lot?

In reply to Anonymous:

Might be interesting!

boB

In reply to The Great Pretender: If you need to ask on here what you should take on a route as serious as the walker then maybe you aren't ready for it yet.

Your rack is way too big. Bivi bag or bothy bag. Marzipan? way too heavy. Just take one tool. I'd take some precip pants or similar if all you are wearing is schoeller pants. A storm on top of the jorasses is not going to be a fun place. Whats the roll top sack for? Magic Plate & 2 HMS then another 2 HMS? Why 3 prussiks, you can get up a rope with your reverso and one prussick and you only need one to back up an ab. Someone mentioned not taking a sleeping bag, personally I'd always take a sleeping bag as I operate alot better after a decent nights sleep in a sleeping bag rather than shivering in a duvet jacket. THe extra 'recharge' offsets the weight of the bag in my book. I don't know what size gas canisters you are taking but I'd always take more rather than less. You can go a couple of days on no food but not without liquid.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Dear Pretender

I am glade you are not taking a guidebook/description.

Norrie

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

thanks for the reply. i'm not intending on doing the route this year. myabe next year when i'm fit and have loads of socttish winter under my belt.


what would oyu take then?

Bivi bag or bothy bag. if in a killer storm you can cook in a bothy bag you can't in a bivi. bivi bag protects your sleeping bag.

Marzipan? way too heavy.

an alternitve?

Just take one tool. done.

I'd take some precip pants or similar if all you are wearing is schoeller pants. good plan

Whats the roll top sack for? because it means you can move your head properly

Magic Plate & 2 HMS then another 2 HMS? 1 hms to atch magic plate to belay. 1 hms to attach ropes to magic palte. 1 hms to add security in the belay. *2 for 2 belays.

Why 3 prussiks, you can get up a rope with your reverso and one prussick and you only need one to back up an ab.

good ponit - how do you use a reverso for creavse rescue? that was what the 3 were for.

Someone mentioned not taking a sleeping bag, personally I'd always take a sleeping bag as I operate alot better after a decent nights sleep in a sleeping bag rather than shivering in a duvet jacket. good plan

THe extra 'recharge' offsets the weight of the bag in my book.

I don't know what size gas canisters you are taking but I'd always take more rather than less. You can go a couple of days on no food but not without liquid.

i was going for the standard medium size

In reply to Norrie Muir:

dear norrie

forgot to add

guide book/topo photcopied and laminated *2

map + case

compass

altimetre

watch with alarm

In reply to The Great Pretender:


We all will.

In reply to The Great Pretender: how did Whillans et al ever manage without all this stuff?

In reply to The Great Pretender:
+ Suncream
+ Cash / credit card / ticket for gondola & beer and chips in the midi station - you'll have earned it.

In reply to Ian Hill:

He'd have ditched 3/4 of that gear and taken 40 smokes instead, all of course after spending the previous 2 months training in the pub.

In reply to Ian Hill:


The same way Kirkpatrick, Fowler et al. manage with modern stuff. I'm not having a go but this argument is put across so often. Brown, Whillans, Patey etc were the best of their day, the routes they did were/are bloody hard, the main reason they aren't the hardest routes around any more is because modern equipment has brought them into the range of mere mortals. A better question would be " how would Whillans et al manage with all this stuff?"

In reply to The Great Pretender:
>>

Dear Pretender

With the amount of stuff you are taking, you will be so tired you will have a good sleep, so an alarm is handy. Make sure it is loud, to awake you.

Norrie

In reply to The Great Pretender: You might want to check this thread out:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=193611

In reply to The Great Pretender:
Malt loaf does me.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Come on folks, surely this list isn't that far off the mark? He might be able to make a few small savings here and there (e.g. spare hats, socks, gloves, lighters, etc.), but it seems to be pretty much on the right lines. I'd be wary of those who suggest the radical saving of only taking one ice tool - I seem to remember Luca Signorelli, who seems to know his stuff and give good advice, saying in a previous discussion that this might make things a bit tricky for the average operator.

Oh, and if you fancy some marzipan, take it!

In reply to Jimmy D:


And we wonder why Brits have a reputation for being slow. Shave the clothes to a minimum, ditch two thirds of the gear, but take as much food and water as you can carry comfortably. You'll need it. With regard to two axes take one each, if necessary the leader can climb with two and the second can follow on a prussik/ ropeman.

In reply to The Great Pretender: When we did it, it was very windy so we couldn't use our stove. Our only source of moisture and food was some camembert because everything else needed cooking. After that I changed to taking food like bananas and YOP but of course if your stove is one of those funky storm proof type ones that would be best. I think you are wise to take a spare pair of gloves as dropping gloves in a storm and getting frost bitten hands would prevent you being able to get off the thing. I wouldn't take ice screws even in winter.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

I have always found these invaluable for light weight ascents

http://store.everestgear.com/134050.html

In reply to Alphin:

Yer but if he ditched a couple of thoses HMS's and the bothy bag...

http://www.withknobson.com/acatalog/EUROBELF_LARGE.jpg

In reply to The Great Pretender: I guess you’re planning to do a summer ascent seeing as your planning to get the Hellbroner (sp) back across to Cham. You might be pushing it if you’re not fast and bivi low on the face and end up with a second bivi somewhere between the Rochefort and the Torino. The usual descent is via the ordinary route from Pointe Walker into Italy (523 in Snow, Ice and Mixed vol 1). Oh and check the met, that way no killer storm.

In reply to Jimmy D:

Some of it is and some isn't. There's a lot of redundant or "just in case" items on that list. Also he has listed *everything*

Shared items marked with asterisk.

Clothing:
Boots
Socks (liner and main)
Tracksters or similar
Thermal top
Thin fleece

Extra clothing:
thin gloves
Outer gloves
Lightweight showerproof trousers
Wind/showerproof top
Balaclava or thin hat.
Thermal top

Personal hardware:
Helmet
Crampons
Axe
harness
Belay plate with screwgate

Climbing hardware:
As previous posting* plus
9mm rope

Bivvy kit:
Sleeping bag
bivvy bag
3 sections of karrimat in sleeve of rucksack
Stove and gas*
pan*
plate, mug, spoon
food*
lighter*

Miscellaneous:
Water bottle - 1 litre
camera
first aid kit
guidebook
suncream
abseil tat
money for return trip

There may be one or two things missing but that's it really. The above does fit into a 30L rucksack.

boB

In reply to Bob:

what d'ya wipe your ass with , Dude ?

In reply to Pyreneenemec:

The spoon, just make sure your mate stirs his tea first

In reply to The Great Pretender: not taking a condom then? You never know..

In reply to Paul Atkinson:

tissues are really useful for a "clean-up operation"

In reply to Pyreneenemec:

But most climbing partnerships aren't that close.

In reply to Bob:

only thing I'd ditch from there is the plate. Why do you need this when you have a pan?

Nikki

In reply to Jimmy D:

What I said was that technically you can climb the Walker with one tool (actually, one medium-sized shaft traditional ice pick, like the Jorasses model from Grivel), but you must know how to use it. I said also that it really depends from conditions.

This said, my climbing partner (who holds one of the fastest ascent ever of the Walker spur - seven hours hut to summit) is absolutely adamant that you MUST bring just one tool and you MUST know how to use it if you want to make an ascent of the Walker in a decent time, as (his words) in summer there's not "piolet traction" terrain to cross, and you're not going to dry tool anything (if the upper part is icy, as it is right now, it's all crampon work). The two tools could be useful on the small ice wall at the end of the Whymper Couloir traverse, but a) there's normally a rope there and b) even if there's no rope, you should be able to climb it with one tool and a couple of screws.

(We're speaking summer climbs here - in winter it's totally another thing)

As for the rack, bring

a set of cams until 3.5
four medium sized stopper, (or one entire set, but you're not going to use it)
one micro (just in case)
8 quickdraws
as many slings as you like (8mm dyneema is ok)
8 krabs
2 screws
2 hms
magic plate or reverso or BD ATC or whatever belay device you fancy (you're not going to make too many actual pitches if you want to do it in a day)
1 etrier
1 hammer

As someone else has already stated, you're bringing too much unnecessary stuff - if you're bringing the bivy gear, you're goin to bivy. My honest impression is that you lack the experience to handle the Walker (if you accept a suggestion from Wrong Way Luca, definitely not the best climber around!) as you should be a bit more sure about the contents and size of the gear you will bring - asking information on Internet is a nice thing, but it's no substitute for hard experience. Ok, sorry for being pedant and boring and usual.

In reply to Pyreneenemec:

Stones or snow

boB

In reply to The Great Pretender:

On a serious note: I have read quite a few of your posts on UKC and see that one minute you are giving advice about the best gear for winter climbing and then the following week posting for advice about the best gear for winter climbing,
this is just one example of a re-ocuring theme of your posts.

If you are a novice just admit it,dont be shy to ask for advice, we all started somewhere, but dont live up to your namesake and carry on being 'the great pretender'

Mark H

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Just to add some info about the "ice difficulties on the Walker spur" issue, the following pictures where taken last weekend:

http://www.forum.planetmountain.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=543429#543429

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

like your advice and honest objectivity! One thing that has always interested me is how sustained the difficult pitches are, how well protected they are i.e. how quickly can you move over them?

Do the good climbers lead and second the hard stuff in rock boots/mtn boots or a combo?

Just how tricky is the route finding?? Are there endless blind alleys and overhanging rock that prevents getting a perspective of the route?

Interested more than anything in just how impressive the first ascents of these routes were!

Many thanks,
James

In reply to James Gordon:

Climbed the Walker a couple of weeks ago in dry conditions. The bottom part of the spur to the abseil is generally easy/ish climbing, with about 3 sustained harder pitches (Rebuffat Crack and 75m corner) which go at about HVS and A0/A1, or maybe E1 if you try to free them.

It was a bit more sustained above this, with some tricky pitches around the Grey Tower/Grey Slabs area, probably quite a few trickier pitches, again at HVS/A0. We did one pitch which had insecure and unprotected 5b climbing straight out from the belay(so hard E2 at least) below the Grey Tower. This pitch did have chalked holds from a team that had done the route the previous day, and the 2 teams behind us also climbed it, but I suspect the lack of pegs (and any other gear) meant we were marginally off route at this point (I hope!).

Apart from this, there are literally hundreds of pegs in the route. It is worth doing your homework on the routefinding before getting on the Walker, but as a rule, if there aren't pegs, you're off route! The Rebuffat Crack was tricky to find (further up and left than we first thought), and it isn't obvious from below. A little bit of routefinding was required around the Grey Tower, but once on the crest of the spur above this, it's obvious again. You can see up the rest of the spur from here, but beware foreshortening - there is still a long way to go! There aren't endless blind alleys on the route, as long as you keep your eyes open. And don't forget to drop down off the big belay ledge and peer round the corner to the right to find the 75m dihedral.

After climbing the easy (and chossy) initial pitches in big boots, we got the rock shoes on, and didn't get the big boots back out until the final pitch to the cornice. Verglas did make for some dicey moves in the upper section (Red Chimney and above), but there were usually plenty of pegs to go for. A Swiss guide followed us up the route in his big boots, but rock shoes will make the route go much quicker, especially when as dry as it was 2 weeks ago. And I'd say definitely take one axe each, not two (unless it's in proper mixed nick). Enjoy!

In reply to gav p:

Nice one!

I suspect that you were off route if you were climbing 5b ground. We did the whole route in big boots (plastics) and only struggled on the 75m corner and the Rebuffat Crack. Did you do it in a day or have to bivvy?

boB

In reply to Bob:

We were hoping to bag it in a day, but the weather closed in in the afternoon and dumped a load of hail on us, so we ended up spending an uncomfortable night beneath the Red Chimney. Did the whole thing in plastics, eh Bob? Give yourself an ED2!

In reply to The Great Pretender:

Looking at what you have got there, I think there is quite some stuff I would remove:

buff (what do you want that for if you are taking a hat anyways)

one of the three pairs of gloves/mitts at least if not two depending on the weather)

one of the three prussiks

the tricam

1 gas canister ( how long do u want to stay on the cliff?)
2 lighters

one of the head torches

some of the krabs

I think u also have too much bivi gear ( I couldn't get my head around the various bags and covers you have)

Basically, I think if u take all the gear you have listed u make things much harder for yourself. Take less, move quicker and be safer and enjoy it more ( without compromising minimal safety).

Have fun

Heike

In reply to The Great Pretender:

i really don't want you to take this the wrong way but

"do you have enough experience to be on a route of that grade"

you seem to be packing very heavy far too much equipment

can i ask you what you might pack on an easy climb such as mt blanc (gouter rt)

just out of interest

Phil

Seems the crowd is split down the middle between people that think this thread was meant to be a joke and people who think the Great Pretender really does plan to climb Jorasses.

So which is it, Great Pretender?

"Jorasses!"
or
"my ass!"

?

In reply to The Great Pretender: your food choice is rotten, glad i dont climb with you, id much rather take a packet of steak slices for breakfast (posh squaries) and they are lighter than marzipan, alos Id recomend you take a wee radio for listening to the shipping forecast

how about showing us your scottish winter kit list?

In reply to The Great Pretender:

What alpine experience do you have??

In reply to MattG: Looking at his logbook, he's done the winter line of Engineer's slabs (VI,7). Quite impressive, if it were not for the fact that he did it in mid-July :-/

In reply to MattG:

PS I wasnt bitching, I was just interested

In reply to John Blab: i know i don't have enough excspirence to attempted the route. i'm not going to until i have lots more scottish winter exspirence, winter icefall climbing and have speant a month in Cham. however i have/been thinking about the walker for a long time. so i descided with the help of the stuff on psyco virtical and mark twights extreme alpinism to try and make a list. obviously i am taking too much stuff. thanks to all who have replied.

In reply to The Great Pretender:

I don't see any nitroglycerin on the list, having watch telly last night I'm lead to believe this is an essential of on any kit list.

In reply to Tyler:


Google for 'marzipan' and 'plastic explosive' and you will see that The Pretender is one step ahead.

In reply to lost1977:

I agree with lost1977,

1 You have packed way too much.
2 Who lists all their kit out like that, should be second nature?

The Reality Mr Pretender is that unless you plan to fix lines and siege the GJ over 5 days or more you need to shed weight, dramatically.

1 full set on nuts, mix of 3 friends(biggest 3.5,
8 extenders, 2x 120 slings each. Take 2 meters of tat as badaleer, 2 screws, maybe a bull dog, hard hat and tools. 2x 8.7mm ropes. Some only use a single, ure choice...

Power stretch on legs, long base layer top. Light wait windproof (rab vapourise or similar). Micro fleece, duvet jacket and storm sack. Warm with two peoples bodies in it. No Sleeping or bivvy bag.

Remember, food is fuel. Take more than you think like nuts dried fruit (they are light). Try power gels(the type cyslist use, 2 of them)

Hope it helps

Hi

Thought this was a great topic, so I wrote my own kit list on my website:- http://www.psychovertical.com/?northwallkitlistsummer

Cheers

Andy

In reply to andy kirkpatrick:

Interesting. I immagine you've got all that at hand. Would be handy to check in which size ruck sacks that fits in and how much does the total weigh. Just for the number nerds like myself.

A.-

In reply to andy kirkpatrick: Did you get my mail? Cheers,
G.

In reply to andy kirkpatrick:

Also, how much does this vary from the OP's proposal?

Probably not too much, but it has more detail and some things that could make a the difference (a few kg lighter as well).

Andy

In reply to andy kirkpatrick:

Oh don't get me wrong - I think advice like this from people who do a lot of this type of thing (e.g. you) is some of the most useful info to be had. I was really just wondering how far off the mark the OP had been to get some of the more patronising and dismissive repies!

In reply to Jimmy D:

I don't think he was far off - infact I'm sure people have done it with far more than that (and far less!).

Andy

In reply to andy kirkpatrick: Apart from taking the possibility of bad weather more seriously, one thing that stands out on your list is no cams!

In reply to Jasonic:

Just because you have cams doesn't mean that you should take them. The Walker is a mixed route rather than a rock route and spikes and flakes are more likely than parallel cracks so slings are more useful.

Glad to see that someone agrees with two of my points:

3O LITRE SACK (sub 500 grams) + PLASTIC/DRY BAG
3 PIECE KARIMATT STORED IN A SLEEVE IN SACK

boB

In reply to andy kirkpatrick: andy

Thanks for replying - quick question though wouldn't sizes 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 of a lightweight cam like a DMM 4cu make you life much easier on a route like that?

cheers

Tom

In reply to James Gordon:


Sorry, I saw this before but I simply forgot to answer!

Gav P gave you all the relevant technical infomations on the Walker, and there’s very little useful I could add. As for your last question:

The first ascent of the route by Cassin (who is, in case of someone ask, the same guy of the Cassin Spur on Denali), Esposito and Tizzoni was immensely relevant for its time, as it was, in many ways, the first time the climbing techniques and technical innovation developed in the Dolomites during the 20’s and the 30’s were used on a new route in a Western Alps big wall, on granite and at a relevant altitude (and in many way, the NF of Grandes Jorasses is THE Western Alps big wall!). These included things like systematic use of aid climbing, rope maneuvers like pendulums, and the use of rock boots with rigid Vibram soles. All these thing were of course non unknown in places like Chamonix, but had never been systematically used to open a big route – and local specialists like Armand Charlet were still very uneasy about “nailing”.

Also, it was important HOW the route was climbed. Neither Cassin nor Esposito or Tizzoni had any previous experience on MB, and, Cassin, while had already built a name with important new routes on the Cima Ovest of Lavaredo and the Piz Badile, had never seen Grandes Jorasses before in their life! Around GJ there had been none of the media frenzy that characterized the race of the Eiger, and Cassin (who lived and still lives in Lecco, north of Milan), got the idea to climb the route from a friend, who sent him a postcard of the wall with the words “you should really try this one”. They went first to Grindenwald to try the Eiger, then moved to Courmayeur, and had to ask for directions to the “that Lesciò hut” (!) to the flabbergasted warden of the Torino hut. They didn’t care for conditions, weather or everything, and went straight to the wall – typical Cassin “I came, I see, and I climbed the damned thing” attitude. It’s also interesting to note that they found the exact line for themselves, in fact going through a hard variant at the beginning that was avoided later by Rebuffat in the second ascent.

The impact of the ascent on the climbing community, especially the local one, was enormous (way bigger than the Eiger!!), as the two most likely pretenders to the first ascent, French Pierre Allain (who did the first ascent of the North Face of the Drus, and was the designer of the first real climbing shoes) and Italian Giusto Gervasutti (who was probably at the time the best granite climber of the world, had built an huge base of new ascents in the area, and had already been a very close second on the first climb of the Croz spur) were surprisingly beaten in their own home turf. Allain was initially very bitter, as he felt he had been cheated by fate (he had just returned from a “reconnaissance in force” on the wall when Cassin came) and his later account of his own third ascent of the route in the early 50’s reeks a bit of “sour grapes”, as with subtle humor he seems to dismiss the line as not terribly hard or beautiful. But the Chamonix climbing scene of the time was rather dismayed that “a stranger” had snatched the prize under Allain’s nose, and most of the French climbing histories are quite eager on showing how close Allain himself had been to the first ascent (and indeed, he really was!)

As for Gervasutti, he was a bit more honest in his feelings – he recognized to Cassin a big technical and psychological advantage over the locals (and himself), and he wrote that he and his regular partner Renato Chabod had been too influenced by the mystique of the Jorasses, the pretences of stable meteo and perfect conditions, and the opinion of local heroes like Armand Charlet. Cassin had none of this – he just seized the first ascent as the opportunity arose.

Gervasutti wrote also that he was disappointed but not bitter, but it’s difficult to say what he really felt, as we know almost nothing on his private life (he’s still one of the big unsolved mysteries of climbing lore!). The huge irony is that Gervasutti himself, four years later (1942), opened on the East Face of the Jorasses a route that was and still is much more difficult than the Cassin, probably the biggest rock climbing achievement on the Alps until the American Direct on the Drus in 1962… but no one noticed, as the 1942 ascent was totally obscured by the war in Europe, and started to get some recognition only in 1974, when Joe Tasker and Dick Renshaw made the third ascent.

I hope this has answered your question.

For Bob and "The Great Pretender":

I’m strictly referring to second hand experience/evidence here, but on the Cassin cams up to 3.5 are very useful. In several places (i.e.the 75m dihedral) as the rock is often structured with parallel cracks or flakes where you must easily integrate the existing gear (that should be normally inspected and possibily re-hammered in, exp at belays). Horns/spikes are more common in the broken parts of the route, as the long crest above the Grey Tower, or the exit above the Red Tower.

Luca, thanks for tonight's story time hour. This Cassin guy must have been a machine to take a look at the wall for the first time and say "sure looks doable" and go after it. With that horrendous gear of the time as well!

Those mountaineers back in that day in age... TON of respect.

In reply to andy kirkpatrick:

Here's my two-penneth on gear for the Walker. We took -

2x8.6mm 60m ropes
Rocks 1-9 on 2 wiregates
Friend 1.0, Camalots 0.75, 1, 2 and Friend 3.5 on 5 wiregates
3 120cm slings with 3 wiregates
Ice screw
11 wiregate quickdraws (inc 2 with 30cm sling and 5 with 60cm sling)
3 spare wiregates
2 lightweight lockers
2 lightweight HMS with 2 Reversos

In hindsight, we could easily have dropped some of the wires and gone 1,3,5,7,9 or even 2,4,6,8. There are hundreds of pegs on the route, and you can easily get away with this. Cams are useful though esp. in Friend 1.5-3 or Camalot 0.75-2 range. We could possibly have dropped the Friend 1 though, and maybe the 3.5 too. So if you were confident, you could take 4 wires and 3 cams, but I would say this is a bare minimum. 3 slings was about right. On some of the pitches, we could have done with an extra quickdraw or 2 to go for higher belays, especially as we had 60m ropes (yes, on some of the trickier pitches, there are that many pegs). So maybe 12 quickdraws if going with 60m ropes. Don't bother taking pegs or hexcentrics. We could also have left the ice screw behind. (note, this is all for the route being in dry condition). The 3 spare wiregates were good at belays, and for hanging the packs from. You only need 4 lockers - 1 at each belay to clovehitch yourself in and hang the reverso from, and 1 to belay with.

We took a 27 litre pack for the leader and 37 litre pack for the second. This way, the second's pig weighed c.twice as much, but he was hauled in tight on the Reverso when seconding to counter this. For lead pack, we had a Mountain Hardwear Scrambler, not the most robust pack, but it weighs under 250g with the back panel taken out, and you can attach an axe and crampons externally. Great pack for a route like this.

If the route is in dry condition, as it was when we did it last month, definitely go with only 1 axe each. Apart from some c.70 degree ice to cross the rimaye and the final Scottish 2 pitch to the summit, axes and crampons weren't used. I took a Black Diamond Raven Ultra (340g)- which was good apart from wouldn't penetrate hard ice cleanly because of a fat pick - my mate used a back-up technical tool (c.35cm, 300g) bought in Snell Sports. This worked fine, inc for the descent, and worked much better in hard ice. Recommended if you want to shed weight. As suggested earlier, if you come across anything that needs 2 axes, leader gets 'em both, then second climbs on tight rope pulling on anything, or gets one of the axes lowered back down, which is what we did at the rimaye. The team behind us took equal size (and bigger) packs, and 2 axes each. They admitted this made the steeper pitches higher up a pain in the arse for the leader, and slowed them down a fair bit. So IMHO, go as light as possible, with a lighter lead pack.

As for the bivvy - bivvy sites are poor high up on the route. You could get away with a bothy bag, but it would be a sh*t night. Go for this option if you're prepared to put up with this for the weight saving. I wasn't - I'm clearly not hard enough. I think a lightweight sleeping bag is a much more efficient use of weight than a down jacket. I used a Macpac waterproof down bag weighing c.750g (bivvy bag not required), only marginally heavier than something like a Rab Neutrino jacket, but probably much warmer overall and your legs and feet will appreciate it. Blizzard bag not recommended - very light (c.400g) but I ripped holes in mine opening it out in my living room. I reckon a bivvy on rough granite ledges would tear one to pieces. Nuts v.good for bivvy food, big power to weight ratio, packed with fat and calories. Macadamia Nuts (from Tesco) 100g packet provides 740 calories, providing your dinner for the night. We used sports drink in Camelbaks and energy gels on the route, along with a few grany bars, which worked well.

Personal clothing is personal choice - I took softshell hoody and bottoms and a lightweight Pertex/Primaloft jacket. I didn't bother with waterproof jacket because I reckon chances of rain at altitude are remote (although we did get a dump of hailstones higher up) - decent softshell should cope with snow and hail. Saying that, i do remember it raining on the way up the Midi arete at 3700m last summer, although that must be pretty rare at that altitude. I reckon waterproof bottoms would be overkill. Pair of gloves each and a hat or a balaclava.

So overall, light is right. In good conditions, a fast team will be over the top in a day. More snow/mixed pitches would obviously slow things down, but any team carrying the OP's original kitlist will probably be spending 2 nights on the face.

In reply to gav p: Gav,

What was your plan for this routeie did you bivi below it or at the hut? how long did it take, has it been affected much by the rockfall a few seasons ago and would you reccomend it?

In reply to robmw:

We stayed in the Leschaux hut, left at midnight and crossed the rimaye at c.3.40am. There was no moon, and navigation on the glacier, which is heavily crevassed, was difficult. Don't underestimate the approach, it takes longer than you think at night. Possibly worth scoping out the day before. No real bivvy spots beyond the Leschaux - you could bivvy on the glacier, which is ice lower down and snowy and steeper nearer the face (this July). But not much advantage to be gained in doing this unless you bivvy nearer the face, in which case you're closer to objective danger from the central coulour (not that there was enough snow to avalanche when we were up there). Make sure you are first team on the route. Plenty of rockfall in the central coulour in the day (none of it anywhere near us), none on the Walker itself, but it's unavoidable to knock some loose stuff off, and we had to be really careful at points (esp. at top of 75m corner) to avoid knocking sh*t down on the teams beneath. Better to be out front than down below.

We did the route with one bivvy. We had hoped to do it in a day, with a bivvy high on the Whymper Rib on the descent, but the weather threatened mid-afternoon, so we stayed put beneath the Red Chimney, and topped out at mid-day the next day.

Didn't notice anything being affected by that rumoured rockfall - all the pitches are still there. Would I recommend it? Of course! It's one of the great Alpine faces, and one of the worlds great lines. The actual climbing? Disappointing. Some of the harder pitches were good (esp. Rebuffat crack, 75m corner and a couple beneath the Grey Tower), but much of the route is loose rock. This would be improved if it was in more classic mixed condition, with more snow on the less steep pitches(there was hardly any snow at all on it in July). But don't expect the granite to be of Capucin standard - it ain't. Still, a great experience nonetheless. Of course I would recommend it!

In reply to gav p:


The rockfall certainly wasn't just 'rumoured'. It happened in Summer 2003 and was a big 'un: photos appeared in the French newspapers, there appeared to be an obvious scar left, and people were warned to stay well away from the route. I have been wondering ever since if the climbing was actually affected or not - so thanks for your report.


I am surprised you say that. I thought most of the climbing was on pretty sound rock, especially in the entire middle section above the 75m diedre and below the red chimneys.

Incidentally: when we climbed this route, and owing to my route-finding confusion (ahem ...), we climbed the wall/slab to the left of the 75m diedre, rather than the diedre itself. That was fine, clean rock, and went easily enough at about English 5a, if I remember right. When we got to the top of that section, we realised our mistake when we looked down the diedre. But given that the diedre was choked with ice, and festooned with crappy old fixed ropes, we reckoned we had in fact inadvertently made a much better choice. So I mention this in case anybody else is up there and fancies this variation.