UKC

Which is the superior out of these two in their attempts at waterproofing?

If you can choose one over the other for other reasons please do but what I'm really interested in is which is better in sustained driving rain. You know the type, lashing horizontal rain, when you're 3 hours from the nearest shelter.

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

Apparently Gore-Tex is more water-proof but less breathable.

I tend to sweat buckets in my Gore-tex jacket..but I am very sweaty. so probs not such a good judge.

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

From the little I know:

They are both basically the same. The only difference is Gore-tex in lamintaed on the inside with another material (reducing breathability) where as Event has treated the interior surface with a hydrophobic coating. Both these measures are to stop the pores of the fabric blocking.

Therefore, both are a waterproof/windproff but Event is more "breathable".

I think......

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

It's not just the fabrics that contribute to overall weather resistance, the design of a garment plays a part as well, as does the manufacturing method.

More seams = more scope for water ingress = more taping neede = less breathability = more condensation.

Sonic welding reduces this but seams still remain a weak point on garments.

Zips = water ingress = stormflaps = extra weight and more stitching

Waterproof zips function up to a point but unless you use the same ones as on drysuits then they are still prone to water ingress under certain conditions.

Hoods = big hole for water to get in.

Short jackets = more potential for water to "creep" from below.

Hope that helps a bit,

DJ

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

Cheers for your feedback.

Come on there must be more experienced bad-weather mountaineers on here, or is it just fair-weather fairies?

In reply to Jon Hemlock: used both. and i would say same as a previous poster, a decent closure helps more, stayed proportionaly dry in both,
if its mtn walking you are doing then longer length, double storm flap on zips, waterproof pockets, and a good hood closure are more important than the waterproofness difference between goretex and event,
that said if you do perspire heavily then breathability should be considered,
for winter you should maybe consider p@r@mo too warm for summer for me though

was looking at this the other day and came across the following.

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/2001/V/1/SP/

Pretty helpful.

In reply to Jon Hemlock: I have a Rab Latok Alpine jacket (eVent). It's the best jacket I've had. Breathability isn't matched by anything else I've used and I find it as waterproof as Gore Tex. Used it in Scotland summer and winter in all weather conditions. Be tempted to get the Latok next time as the alpine often escapes from my harness due to the short cut and maybe not quite as durable. Like the lack of unnecessary features though. Would agree that the design of the garment also plays a big role.

In reply to gear boy:

Cheers, I am a sweater, so breathability is key. I'd wear a rubber coat like you find on building sites (because they are actually waterproof unlike these two claimants) if I didn't sweat so much. My Dad uses Paramo and he's a sweater, but he doesn't move that quick these days, and doesn't get up too high into seriously bad weather.

On the waterproof thing, I'm actually amazed Gore-tex can get away with the slogan "Guaranteed to keep you dry". What a load of rubbish, anyone who's been caught out in a storm or serious rain knows it's not waterproof.

In reply to Chris Andrews:

Thanks, that's useful.

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

If it's breathability and waterproofing that you're after then Paramo is the best. However it is heavy compared to lightweight stuff made from Event and it is warmer. Upside is it is easier to maintain and to repair, will last longer and once you've got your head around the increased warmth/reduction in layers is ok.

I use a Velez smock over a thin (Underarmour Heatgear)baselayer for most stuff and it's fine.

DJ

In reply to Deejay:


Paramo isn't waterproof

lippy

In reply to lippy lion:

Oh sorry, perhaps the pissing down rain I experienced in Cwm Eigiau in November was virtual and the 5 hours walking in it was also virtual as was the aridity of the interior of the Paramo Velez I was wearing. Funny thing but if you wash Paramo in Nikwax Tech Wash (as suggested by the manufacturer) IT WORKS.

DJ

In reply to Deejay:


Paramo does a good job of keeping the user dry, but the matieral isnt actually waterproof. It works in a different way to a conventional membrane waterproof. Paramos' material does not have a high enough hydrostatic head to meet the standard required for it to be called waterproof.

In reply to Jon Hemlock: There is a difference between a fabric's waterproofness and a jacket's weather protection. eVent and Gore-tex are both totally waterproof fabrics, how dry you stay may depend more on a jackets design, as others have pointed out.

In reply to Dan_S:

Thanks Dan,

I'm fully aware of the difference between "waterproof" (as in a sheet of rubber) and water resistant and am also pretty clued up as to the functional attributes of a variety of materials. The information most users want though is "does it keep me dry?". To this end Paramo performs better than Goretex or Event and even better than triplepoint Ceramic.

The only truly "waterproof" garment I have ever owned is a set of old Helly Hansen oilskins, however the very nature of the material meant that I got wet with the slightest exertion.

Perhaps I shouldn't have attempted an ironic reply to Lippy Lion as it was obviously lost on you.



DJ

Goretex, Guaranteed to keep you wet

In reply to Jon Hemlock:



its not rubbish, the Gore material is actually waterproof, the reason you get wet is either through your own perspiration or thru the seems.

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

Not another one of these "event v Gore" threads.

it's been done to death on here with far too many people waving their proverbial willies about to try and prove their point more than someone else.

In reply to Wes:

Has it? I've never noticed and I've looked on here every day since around 2002.

Just to clarify, and particulalry for those who are charged with keeping the faith, if you had a sheet of Gore-Tex and made a submersible out of it and sank it in water would it leak?

NO = Waterproof

YES = Not Waterproof

However if you made a shelter out of it for example and water ran of it's surface, but eventually dripped through, then it's water RESISTANT.

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

John, how would you define rainproof?

In reply to Jon Hemlock:

A neat trick I use is to wash gore-tex in the nikwax fleece wash...yes, the FLEECE wash. Since perspiration adds some amount of moisture inside any waterproof jacket, this nikwax fleece wash totally upgraded my jacket and 'pettes to waterproofness they never had even when new. And I do not sweat more in them, i.e. they haven't just sealed every breathable pore. I don't know the difference, but the fleece wash on gore-tex is better than the wash for waterproof laminates. I've tested it in the badest Irish weather, and that is bad...downpour with high humidity and no cold (except for wind chill)....WET weather.
I've also silcone seam sealed all the taping sinside the jacket. to hold near the hood when putting it on, it feels like a fishermans rubber overall, but its just the tapes and together with the wash, my six year old marmot just beads water without changing sweat levels inside.

In reply to Jon Hemlock:


eVent vs various materials including GoreTex does come up reasonably frequently on here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=11&dates=1&n... There were threads in Oct-06 and Nov-05 with almost identical titles to this one!

In reply to Martin W:

So it has, must've missed them. Mind you, I wasn't shopping for a coat then.

In reply to Lightweight:

If you want a definition, use the definition of the words within the word. Specifically:

Rain - Water that is condensed from the aqueous vapor in the atmosphere and falls to earth in drops more than 1/50 in. (0.5 mm) in diameter.

Proof - 1. Able to withstand; successful in not being overcome.
2. Impenetrable, impervious, or invulnerable.


Or simply:

Impervious to rain - like a rubber sheet for example.

In reply to Jon Hemlock: In those conditions nothing is breathable, I have got a MHW Epic which is Conduit SL, cheap, marginally more breathable than a plastic bag, but I only wear it when is raining and it keeps even the worst of weather out.

In reply to Jon Hemlock: None buy a paramo

In reply to nuts55:


Paramo isn't waterproof

lippy

In reply to Nick B:

I may be as well spending £50 on one of those as opposed to going to Ellis Brigham or Cotswold Outdoors and spending £200 on some overpriced shite.

There's an Epic Parka on eBay for £60

It's not like when I was a wee lad and my Dad would drag me up hills in a duffle-coat with a spare cagoule in his bag for me. I wonder if anyone still sells 'cagoules'.