UKC

Supposedly 25% more sticky than everyone else's rubber but my missus has a pair of Five Ten Sirens and is not impressed.

In reply to Eric Herring:

I trust my feet more in my new Anasazis than I do in my Boreal Jokers. But then, the Jokers are my comfy shoes for long routes, not tight fitting, and not really technical. I don't know about the difference between Onyx and Stealth for 5.10 shoes

In reply to Eric Herring:

yes really more sticky than anything else in my experience.

In reply to Eric Herring:

Got new Anasazi and found them to be just as sticky as the the stealth rubber and with a better heel!! Much stickier than my pencil eraser rubber boreals....

In reply to Eric Herring: Don't know if Onyx is any stickier, but the heel design fits my foot better

In reply to panyan:


I agree - apart from a wet fart....


;0)

In reply to Nick Smith - UKC: heel doesn't fit me.

I do ask how important 5.10's are

Leah Crane - not wearing 5.10s
Ben Cossey - not wearing 5.10s
Dave McLeod - not wearing 5.10s
Jack Geldard - not wearing 5.10s
Ola Taistra - not wearing 5.10s
Chris Sharma - not wearing 5.10s
James Pearson - not wearing 5.10s

They don't seem to suffer from a lack of stickiness - why aren't they wearing them and acheiving more?

In reply to Glyn Jones:



How do you know that they don't wear five tens Jonsey?

Little trade secret - top climbers who are sponsored to wear boots usually do their stuff in 5:10's and then for the photo shoot wear their sponsored brand.

I've photographed climbers who won't let you take piccys when they are wearing 5:10's - change of shoes for the camera - and you snap away...

Also they tend to get their sponsored brand boots resoled by feet first in 5:10 rubber...

...so there you go!!

Cheers

Si

In reply to Glyn Jones:


he did to do Rhapsody, old style anasazis on his feet in E11 unless I'm very much mistaken.

In reply to Simon: really? So Chris Sharma wasn't wearing evol on La Rambla 9a+ - sorry had them resoled!

;O)

In reply to Glyn Jones:
Dave Mcleod - didnt he do rhapsody in 5.10s before his switch to scarpa?
Chris Sharma - was a rumout he wasnt happy about his switch to evolve (probably crap since it was in a thread on here though)
James Pearson - i thought he does climb in 5.10s?
Ben Cossey/Leah Crane/others who dont climb in 5.10s - doesnt mean they wouldnt rather climb in them, just may be what they can get a deal with. i have a friend who gets trade price shoes cos he's good but doesnt actually use it on most of his harder climbs - trains in them and then goes back and stages pics in them on hard routes he's previously done in 5.10s (anazasis and t-rocks) if need be.

In reply to Katie Weston: Yes, but my comment is his performance in SCARPA - hasn't diminished his performance.

That was the question.

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Your learning lad!!

;0)

In reply to Simon:

<<sticks middle finger up and points it north towards Si>>


:oP

In reply to abarro81:


Then the rock climbers have sold out.

In reply to Glyn Jones:

<<sticks rods up towards the southern Monkey>>

"...and two's yer change"

;0P

In reply to Simon: At least like a monkey - I can climb!

Ya Northern Fruitbat!

:oP

In reply to Glyn Jones: yeah, but why not if you get free stuff!

In reply to abarro81: not sure I'd be impressed as an advertiser to find I was being cheated. In a bigger community maybe but with climbing - I would see this as a waste.

In reply to Caralynr:
Hang on. I thought the Jokers were one of the very first sticky rubber shoes? Moffat managed Masters Wall because of them (according to Stone Monkey)?

Those shoes must be oooooooold.

In reply to Will Hunt: this is the question I'm raising

In reply to Glyn Jones:





Fruitbat indeed ?!!

hey - I don't need to climb - I can fly it seems!! (and eat fruit - but then so can Monkeys - who also can diddle with theirselves and fling shit at thier mates! ;0)

In reply to Simon:

I knew I could multitask!

In reply to Will Hunt:

Moffat managed Masters Wall because of them (according to Stone Monkey)?


Boreal came out with the Jokers only about 4 years ago!!

You are thinking of the "Classic" - they were grey and were boots not shoes...

Classic shot of Him on Uylesses at Stanage in them for the 1st ascent...

Si

In reply to Simon: but did he wear the classic for the ascent ad the Jokers for the pictures?

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Are these the new ones? The old heels are horrible but I'm considering the new...

In reply to thomasadixon: yes, for me the sides fold over

In reply to Simon:

Firés

In reply to everyone:

The fit is the most important thing. If the shoes doesn't fit well, then the shoe is crap!

Onyx is Stealth Rubber. "Old" Stealth rubber was C4, "New" Stealth rubber is Onyx.

Lots of climbers do wear 5.10 even if they don't get them for free

http://bp1.blogger.com/_P8ZJ8GytXDM/RjNC8QyXgVI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/qL3thnaKauY/s16...
and
http://www.hotaches.blogspot.com/ 27th April 2007 (bit harder to make out, but they are Anasazi Velcros

Jerry Moffat did Master's Wall in a pair of Boreal Fire's not Jokers! They were the first pair of "sticky" rubber shoes in the UK. Cragrat has the correct spelling. I can't be arsed to find the e with an accent.

As for all the other stuff... what does it matter if your shoes are stickier than your mates? If your mate is a better climber, he will climb better than you full stop. I can burn (some) people off in a pair of trainers, assuming the problem is burly.

If you watch "Stone Monkey", then there's a bit of Johnny doing Technical Shitbag in trainers. It's all down to how good you are. Extra stickiness helps, but not much. In fact it helps so little, few people could probably tell the difference between two shoes, in different rubbers.

In reply to withey:

he did say they were good trainers, not like the stuff you get nowadays.

In reply to Eric Herring:

to be fair when i got the new ones the rubber had no bearing on my decision, at the very worst they're gonna be the same as the 'stealth' which isn't bad at all in my opinion!

In reply to withey: and that is a good argument to my question - if you are good the "I'm the stickiest' is a pile of crap!

In reply to withey:
"If you watch "Stone Monkey", then there's a bit of Johnny doing Technical Shitbag in trainers. It's all down to how good you are. Extra stickiness helps, but not much. In fact it helps so little, few people could probably tell the difference between two shoes, in different rubbers."

I think you'll find they are 5:10 guides (they have rock shoe rubber on the sole and special hard soles!)

In reply to Simon:

You remember that 5.10 advert too!

In reply to CurlyStevo: I agree, look at the grade’s that were being climbed before sticky rubber, whilst it may give you a slight edge it’s no substitute for ability which has nothing to do with what boots you can afford to buy (which is more about fit than rubber). So unless you are climbing at the top of the sport it’s an insignificant difference and not worth worrying about.

In reply to Jamesclimb:

What a lot of rubbish. It doesn't matter how good people are without sticky rubber, it makes anyone better than if they were not using it. So what if Johnny could do technical master in trainers or some hard routes were done pre sticky rubber - all of those climbers could have climbed harder in sticky rubber. Next you will be arguing that just because Johnny did Masters edge one handed that having two arms is over rated, and really it's just down to ability.

In reply to Eric Herring:
I have had both the stealth and the Onyx rubber,5:10's.
Certainly out of the box the new Onyx feel incredably sticky,however it does not take them long to get a layer of mud and dust on them and the sticky edge has gone.
Top boot though
I heard the Onyx is 18% stickier than the Stealth ?

In reply to Eric Herring:

From the 5.10 website

Since then, Cole has upped the ante with Stealth S1, Stealth C4, Stealth HF (high friction), Stealth Amphibia (for water), and now Stealth ONYXX, which is twice as durable as any other climbing rubber available, with 25 percent more friction.

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Intresting article in climbing magazine back in 2003:
http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/rockshoes2003/

5.10 didn't do that well in the review

In reply to Flatlander:

and in the 2004 review they don't do that well either:

http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/shoes231/
http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/231slipper/

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Allow me to riposte in kind with a list of 5.10 wads
Fred Nicole
Dave Graham
Steve McClure
Gaz Parry
Dean Potter
Ethan Pringle
Sonnie Trotter
Bernd Zangerl
Tyler Landman

These people obviously all benefit from the increased performance of 5.10's and are all world class.

In reply to TimS: Indeed they do wear them - the question was why do the others still climb hard without 5.10s if they are so bloody brilliant?

In reply to Glyn Jones: Because they are skint and got offered free shoes by a different company so they wear them.

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Marketing and a mind set, people for the past couple of years have been saying how amazing 5.10's are especially climbing stores and we believe the marketing hype. The hype gives us confidence so we believe we can push a bit harder in those shoes. Bingo we get a problem because we push a little harder in 5.10 so we believe the shoes made the difference not us. It’s all in your head. You didn't climb the problem because you bought 5.10s, the thought of the shoes gave you the confidence to do it. Most likely any new pair of shoes would have done the same effect especially if your old shoes where worn out.

In reply to TimS: Still not seen the point of the question - irrespective of what shoe they wear they are still able to operate at the high levels - the 25% more sticky and 5.10s are the best is a moot point!

In reply to TimS: see endless winters reply above!

In reply to Glyn Jones:

The point is moot. Fit is more important than rubber nowadays as most of the companies have caught up with 5.10 in terms of rubber quality.

From talking to various people who have been wearing the new Scarpa range for a while it seems that their new rubber formula is stiffer than onyxx but less sticky, making it better for small edges rather than smearing. Would like to test it out, but unfortunately for me they don't do a non leather model, perhaps I'll get an old pair of velcros resoled in Vibram.

I also agree with the point about getting new shoes making you more confident, however when experimenting between brands I have bought some stinkers in the past (Red Chili torro stick out as a particular example). I guess it is unlikely that anyone is going to go out and pick up a pair of the top end model from each of the major companies, have them fit well and then compare them on the same climbs. For this reason I think rock shoe reviews in magazines aren't all that usefull either really, as if you climb at an intermediate level or above, the type of shoe you chose is going to be a lot to do with the rock you climb on most regularly and the style of climbing you partake in.

In reply to TimS:

Just to add to what you've said I think that many top climbers use different shoes(and rubber) for different styles of climbing. Edging smearing hooking etc. Nowadays no one shoe fits all styles of climbing(at the top end).

In reply to Glyn Jones:

And just to add fuel to the fire I think 5.10 are a load of keich. Never been very impressed with them.

In reply to SFM: Indeed - I have heard of good climbers both using different shoes for pitch 1 and pitch 2 of the same route (I think that was Andy Pollit) and also climbing a route with diferent shoes on their left and right feet.

In reply to Eric Herring:

Andy K's article in Climb this month sums it all up nicely-along the lines of this:

If you can really notice the difference between rubbers- you're getting your shoes for free and are stuck with whatever your sponsor uses.

In reply to Wes:
I have both Boreal Jokers and 5.10 Ascents. I really do notice the difference in soles. I can climb stuff in the 5.10's that would leave my feet sliding around in the Jokers. No doubt 5.10 rubber is stickier.

In reply to TimS:

Totally agree with you Tim. Can't believe that people are on here discussing rubber. This is 2007 not 1987. Fit is everything, its as simple as that. I don't care which climbers use what brand of boots. Who cares? Not me. Just get a pair that fits. Easy.