UKC

Hey
Im a regular sport climber. An experienced instructor at my local wall told me recently that to make an anchor at the top of sport routes its better to get steel krabs instead of the expensive alloy ones
Any thoughts on this?
Ideally, I would get something like a couple of DMM Zodiacs, but steel are alot cheaper and therefore would be better if I had to leave it behind on a route!
Urban rock has a couple by FOIN for £4.99 in the industrial section of the website

Has anyone used these for climbing before?
Thoughts?

In reply to dan834:
You wouldn't normally use a krab to lower off a sport route. There's normally a lower-off in place, clip in on a cowstail, thread lower-off and retie, lower off.

If you're talking about sacrificial gear to be left behind if you bail out, a maillon rapide is generally considered the best option. 7mm long pattern, about 2 quid (or 50p if you fancy taking your life in your hands and using a non-rated Screwfix cheapie).

In reply to dan834: arnt steel krabs like uber strong aswell? or have i got my wires crossed...?

In reply to dan834:


Sounds reasonable advice if he's talking about building a permanent anchor / lower-off to be left in-situ. The main advantage being a steel krab won't wear as fast as alloy with heavy use. Steel maillons are another popular choice.

However unless you're putting up / equipping sports routes or run an outdoor ed centre and regularly bottom-rope them (and therefore do the decent thing by putting up your own gear to wear rather than top-roping through the insitu kit) this is probably of little relevance to you.

In reply to quadmyre:

Hey thanks for the replies

I was planning to use them to set up a lower off in Portland, where there is a U-bolt system. This way we can climb the route as many times as wanted, and then the last person up threads the lower off and strips the route.

I know some people use 2 quickdraws to lower off from, but I would be mroe confident in a solid anchor

In reply to deepsoup:

I looked into the maillon rapides, but they are quite narrow and fiddly and might not work with all kids of in-situ bolts

In reply to dan834:

In that case would normally just go with 2 quickdraws as it's by far the easiest and fastest way to go and you've got plenty of redundancy in there. What's not to be confident in? Alternatively sling clipped to each anchor, equalised (overhand / fig 8 knot / sliding X) chunky screwgate to clip into. You could use a steel screwgate for that but unless you're going to be doing this a lot it's probably not worth it as they're darn heavy and not much use for anything else.

In reply to dan834: Mostly, a better option for a permanent fixed lower off would be a stainless steel maillonn. Seal it with an epoxy based resin.

In reply to dan834:


That works fine as do alloy screwgates, as would steel screwgates. However, you'll not wear out alloy ones used as you describe and they're more generally usefull so I'd get those over the steel ones.

jk

In reply to Gaz lord: steel crabs take the heat of the rope going over it continusly (centre use).

+ less likly to wear as quickly

In reply to jkarran:

OK thanks for the replies

So while we're on the topic, what do you recommend as a good biner for the rope to run through? Is a bulky one better here? I'll prb get DMM zodiacs for the anchor points, is there something better for the actual lower-off biner?

In reply to dan834: I've had alloy ones rough up in the hanger when on a hanging belay and as a result dediacted a screwgate to sport use only to prevent rope damage. I would guess that steel would be less vulnerable to this.

In reply to Gaz lord:

shouldn't be as krabs are genrally as strong as they need to be nad making them stronger would just be pointlessly making them heavier....

In reply to johnsonater3:

What?

In reply to dan834:
Its not cheap, but DMM are bringing out (brought out?) a screw gate version of the revolver which sounds ideal for your purpose. It should reduce wear on the rope and biner. It will add a little distance to a fall but this is usually not a bad thing as it makes it more dynamic, unless you're near the bottom.

In reply to damowilk:

And will let the belayer fly up in the air if the climber is even a little heavier. Don't use a revolver, a bit of friction in the system is good for toproping.

In reply to dan834:

So you want to set up a top rope, for loads of people to climb on the same one route, is that right?

In reply to dan834:


Narrow ones give more friction, fat (or with radiused contact areas) give less. Your call, I'd just go with what's cheap on the day you go to the shop, it's really isn't an unusual application. If they get nicks from the hangers I file them out, it only takes seconds.

Personally I'd actually just use quickdraws if climbing with mates.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

For some reason I was under the impression that because I will be lowering off from them, the safety and added strength of screwgates would be recommended
I take your point though! 2 Quickdraws looks like the best way to go!

In reply to rock waif:

Not at all! I just think that creating a clip-able anchor is the best way to go, as there is alot more risk involved in repeated threading of the lower off bolts (more potential for error)
I was planning to go with a couple of mates, and we will all be leading

In reply to dan834:



I’ve used zodiacs as top rope anchors and they ware very fast. Had taken the anodising off after only a couple of sessions, and that’s when paired up to increase the radius. Got to be careful what you use the sporty krabs for.

In reply to John:

So maybe something cheaper like Black Diamond Positrons, and doubling them up

In reply to dan834: yes, the risk then is forgetting to do up the karabiner!

I've just had problems at Portland with big groups people leaving their ropes up and "reserving routes". Where a route which is free for 5 minutes, suddenly becomes a route their mate is "just about to do" and not free at all. A bugbear of mine and obviously unrelated to your thread! Sorry.

In reply to rock waif:

Understand completely. This thread is about the best gear to use to anchor the top of a portland sport route, to enable quick, safe, repeated (only once or twice!) lower-off
I have had simialar experiences to yourself at some of the sandstone locations

In reply to dan834:

Seriously, unless you're planning on winching hundreds of people up the routes any crab will do Get a couple of bargain screwgates and get going...

jk